3G 5D Mk7 extrusion slipping

[Gaelen Hadlett]

I am having problems with the extrusion with the MK7.  It is clicking/slipping when extruding in the control panel.  I haven't gotten to the point of testing for an actual print yet since a slew of upgrades.  It is connected to the 3G 5D shield via a v3.3 SMD.  It is using the latest (3.3) Jetty firmware, but I turned off acceleration with the accel on/off machine code.

I tried decreasing the max feed rate which has helped.  What is a typical non-accelerated max feed rate?  I haven't changed the steps per mm for the a-axis.  Here is the geometry field for my machines xml.

<axis id="x" length="100" maxfeedrate="4500" stepspermm="80" endstops="none"/>  <!-- 1/16th-step driver -->

<axis id="y" length="100" maxfeedrate="4500" stepspermm="5" endstops="none"/>  <!-- 1/16th-step driver -->

<axis id="z" length="100" maxfeedrate="80" stepspermm="2500" endstops="none"/> <!-- 1/16-step driver -->

<axis id="a" length="100000" maxfeedrate="2000 " stepspermm="50.235478806907409"/> <!-- 1/8th steps -->

Under the RepG control panel, should plastic be extruded when the motor is spinning clockwise or counter clockwise?  This is my first go with a stepstruder and I didn't see anywhere on the wiki.

-Gaelen

[James McCracken]

clockwise is the way to spin to extrude.  The symptoms you describe definitely sound like you're trying to push too fast.  Or the filament is not flowing properly.  Make sure your nozzle is completely warmed up to extrusion temperature before ever doing any extruder motor testing. 

 

On my Mk6+, there's a delrin or teflon plunger holding the filament onto the drive gear, and having it too loose gives me symptoms similar to what you're seeing - not sure if its the same design on the Mk7 or not but do make sure your tensioner (whatever it is) is adequately adjusted.

-Gaelen

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[John D'Ausilio]

if 5d is set up correctly, you should be able to see two curved arrows
in the upper-left corner of the picture in the control panel labeled
"A" .. those move the extruder
there should also be a slider to set the speed, which you should turn
way down for testing
you also might need to invert A .. the top curved arrow should
extrude, invert A if not

it's also entirely possible that the temperature indicated in repg
might not be the actual temperature .. I've seen a MK6+ be 20C off,
I'm pretty sure my MK7 is at least 5 or 6C off (indicates higher than
actual)

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Gaelen Hadlett <gae...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jetty]

Try cleaning the extruder pinch wheel. Often filament dust builds up
there, and it will cause slippage, particularly at accelerated speeds.

What setting do you have in the Control Panel for the "A" axis speed?

With the MK7, clean pinch wheel, and correct tension on the filament,
you should be able to achieve 30mm/s non-accelerated, and 100-120mm/s
accelerated.

Other things to check are the "Ref" voltage for the A axis.

Finally if that doesn't solve it, please post a video so we can see
what sound it's making.

[Gaelen Hadlett]

I don't remember seeing a slider for the extruder/a-axis, but I'll look again and try decreasing the max feed rate.  It's extruding pretty quickly as is, so that must be my current problem.  Looks like I'm extruding in the right direction through the control panel.  Hopefully I can get some test prints out in the morning.

-Gaelen

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[Jetty]

Also, double check your extruder steps per mm. I noticed that you're
mix and matching 1/16, 1/8 stepping. If everything doesn't match,
i.e. 1/8 stepping with 1/8 driver setting, then you could be a factor
of 2 out.

[Gaelen Hadlett]

The extruder is working in the control panel now, but nothing extrudes when it's actually printing.  Is there something in the profile I should be looking for?  Here are the first few lines of the gcode if that's any help:

*******************************************************

G0 Z15 (Move up for warmup)

M108 S255 (Extruder speed = max)

M6 T0 (Wait for tool to heat up)

G04 P5000 (Wait 5 seconds)

M101 (Extruder on, forward)

G04 P5000 (Wait 5 seconds)

M103 (Extruder off)

M01 (The heated build platform is heating up. Wait until after the lights have turned off for the first time, clear the test extrusion, and click yes.)

G0 Z0    (Go back to zero.)

(**** end of start.gcode ****)

(<creation> skeinforge </creation>)

(<version> 10.11.05 </version>)

(<extruderInitialization>)

(<craftTypeName> extrusion </craftTypeName>)

M105

(<bridgeWidthMultiplier> 1.0 </bridgeWidthMultiplier>)

(<decimalPlacesCarried> 3 </decimalPlacesCarried>)

(<layerThickness> 0.3 </layerThickness>)

(<threadSequenceString> perimeter loops infill </threadSequenceString>)

(<operatingFeedRatePerSecond> 30.0 </operatingFeedRatePerSecond>)

(<operatingFlowRate> 3.07748004586 </operatingFlowRate>)

(<orbitalFeedRatePerSecond> 15.0 </orbitalFeedRatePerSecond>)

(<travelFeedRatePerSecond> 30.0 </travelFeedRatePerSecond>)

(<perimeterWidth> 0.419 </perimeterWidth>)

(<profileName> ABS </profileName>)

(<procedureDone> carve,bottom </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> preface </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> inset </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> fill </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> speed </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> jitter </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> comb </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> cool </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> outline </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> reversal </procedureDone>)

(<procedureDone> export </procedureDone>)

(</extruderInitialization>)

(<extrusion>)

;M113 S1.0

M108 R3.077

(<layer> 0.45 )

(<surroundingLoop>)

(<boundaryPerimeter>)

(<boundaryPoint> X-10.0 Y-10.0 Z0.45 </boundaryPoint>)

(<boundaryPoint> X10.0 Y-10.0 Z0.45 </boundaryPoint>)

(<boundaryPoint> X10.0 Y10.0 Z0.45 </boundaryPoint>)

(<boundaryPoint> X-10.0 Y10.0 Z0.45 </boundaryPoint>)

(<perimeter> outer )

G1 X-11.79 Y-11.79 Z0.45 F1800.0

*******************************************************

-Gaelen

[Jetty]

Please describe what fixed your initial problem, so others can
benefit.

Regarding the new issue (jog's, but firmware doesn't print):

1. Is this 5D printing or regular printing (note this isn't a
reference to 3G5D, that's different)

2. In Control Panel / Onboard Preferences, what do you have A Axis
Invert set to?

[Gaelen Hadlett]

I decreased the max feed rate as suggested.  Right now I'm at 300.  When I had it set to 400-600, it slipped/clicked about every 50mm.

It is not 5D printing, or at least not intended to be.  In the onboard preferences, I have the a-axis inverted.  The control panel will allow me to extrude when I hit the clockwise arrow.  I based my machine xml file off of a non-RPM accelerated thingomatic profile.

I came across this thread that sounds similar: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/makerbot/-OZiEZyqqp0/discussion, but it looks like they were using the Dimensions profile (I am not).  Thanks for the help,

-Gaelen

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[Aaron Double]

If you have the clockwise wheel, you are using the dimension plugin.

[Gaelen Hadlett]

Is there any write up that explains all the terminology?  Back when I first got the cupcake a couple years ago I feel like I had a good grasp on all this, but I have no idea what the differences/dichotomy is anymore (re: RPM, Dimensions, 5D).

Ideally I want to get my upgrades working using the less experimental stuff (not sure if thats RPM or Dimensions) and then move towards the more recent methods.

-Gaelen 

[Herón Ordóñez Guillén]

wouldn't that be the 5D (or 4 axis) driver ? that's part of ReplicatorG's control panel and defined in machines.xml

The Dimension plugin is part of Skeinforge and it's used to generate gcode that uses the 4 axis of the machine (X,Y,Z and Extruder)

they're two separate stages of the workflow.

I believe that you can use the 4axis driver without activating Dimension, in that case the machine uses the RPM definitions as usual, so you would see it works normally, but you are not taking any advantage of the better control that Dimension gives you.

[Jetty]

>I decreased the max feed rate as suggested. Right now I'm at 300. When I
>had it set to 400-600, it slipped/clicked about every 50mm.

300mm/s or 300mm/min?

Is that the federate in printomatic?

[Jetty]

> 300mm/s or 300mm/min?

If you're using 300mm/s, then definitely your extruder will slip or
not extrude. A MK7 extruder will handle around 100mm/s max.
In which case, I highly recommend starting with the "Setup Guide".

Regarding your extruder axis, if:

1. You're not using 5D
2. Your extruder is mounted so that turning clockwise (when viewed
from the stepper motor spindle end), extrudes
3. You haven't changed the stepper motor connections

Then, "Invert A Axis" in the Motherboard Onboard preferences should be
off.

Finally, what I do is mark the filament with a sharpie, as it goes
into the extruder. You can then look at the start of the print, and
see
if the filament is moving or not. If it's moving out of the stepper,
then you need to invert the A axis, if it's not moving, then you have
slippage.

[Gaelen Hadlett]

The 300 is from the maxfeedrate in the machine xml file. I have it
set to 30mm/s in Printomatic. I tried switching between RPM/non-RPM
profiles this morning with skeinforge 35, but had no luck. I'm going
to run through the whole setup guide again and figure out what I
missed.

If I have acceleration turned off, do I need to send the machine codes
every time I recalibrate the scales in the machine xml file?

-Gaelen

[Dan Newman]

On 10 May 2012 , at 10:06 AM, Gaelen Hadlett wrote:

> I decreased the max feed rate as suggested. Right now I'm at 300. When I
> had it set to 400-600, it slipped/clicked about every 50mm.
>
> It is not 5D printing, or at least not intended to be.

What's does the

<driver name="blah">

section of the selected machine profile say in the machine's .xml file?
If you're not doing 5d, then it should be makerbot4ga and not makerbot4g.

Dan

[Gaelen Hadlett]

My RPM xml blob has makerbot4ga, the non-RPM one has makerbot4g.
Knowing that one is for 5D feel very helpful, thanks.

-Gaelen