3G 5D Shield + Pololu driver; no extrusion

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technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 3:24:17 AM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
tl;dr:
When printing a layer, the extruder moves imperceptibly, if it moves
at all. However, the extruder backs up quickly, then moves back down
quickly when it's travelling. Also, during warm-up, the extruder does
push what seems like a normal amount of plastic. The control panel
also seems to be able to drive the extruder as expected.

---
Cupcake with 5G shield and Pololu drivers for XYZ and A for the
extruder.
Using the Mk6+ NEMA17 high torque stepper.

ReplicatorG 29
Skeinforge 40

Driver and profile:
3G 5D Cupcake (Pololu XYZ, Mk5/6+ Pololu Extruder)
3G 5D Dimension v2 profile

I've upgraded:
* Extruder controller to v3.0 (w/relay for stepper extruders)
* Motherboard to the 3G 5D shield FW v3.1.

(followed the 3G 5D shield instructions at both wiki.makerbot.com and
thingiverse, installed the provided machine xml and profiles from
there).

---
Any advice? What specific information can I provide to help
troubleshoot?

Regards,
-robert

notstarman

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Jan 14, 2012, 6:42:22 AM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
I had the same problem at first. If you have the same problem I did
the A axis is incorrectly defined. Do you have any gear reduction on
your filament drive or is it a direct drive?
The supplied machine.xml is for the direct drive version if you have
another setup then you need adjust the scale in your machine file. I
use a printable stepper upgrade (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:
5795) this gives me a gear ratio of 51:7 so you need to multiply your
A axis scale by 51/7 which is ~7.2857:1.

I just want to qualify the above by saying that this is what worked
for me. If you know better way to fix this problem please chime in.

For example the direct drive machine uses this definition.
<machine>
<name>3G 5D Cupcake+ABP (Pololu XYZ, Mk5/6+Pololu Extruder)</name>
<geometry type="cartesian">
<!-- different pulleys on X and Y axii -->
<axis id="x" length="100" maxfeedrate="5000" scale="94.1397046"/>
<!-- sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="y" length="100" maxfeedrate="5000" scale="94.1397046"/>
<!-- sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="z" length="100" maxfeedrate="150" scale="2560"/> <!--
sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="a" length="100000" maxfeedrate="5000"
scale="100.470957613814818"/>
</geometry>
<tools>
<tool name="Mk5/6/6+ w/ABP" type="extruder" material="abs"
automatedplatform="true" heatedplatform="true" heater="true"
stepper_axis="a"/>
</tools>
<clamps></clamps>
<driver name="makerbot4g">
<!-- optional, defaults to first serial port found.
<portname>COM1</portname> -->
<!-- required: we need 8 bit and 38400 baud. -->
<rate>38400</rate>
<parity>8</parity>
<!-- optional, defaults to 1. <databits>1</
databits> -->
<!-- optional, defaults to N. <stopbits>N</
stopbits> -->
<!--<debuglevel>5</debuglevel>-->
</driver>
<warmup>
</warmup>
<cooldown>
(Turn off steppers after a build.)
M18
</cooldown>
</machine>

Mechine file corrected for the Gear reduction:
<machine>
<name>3G 5D Cupcake+ABP (Pololu XYZ, Mk5/6+Pololu Extruder BigGear)</
name>
<geometry type="cartesian">
<!-- different pulleys on X and Y axii -->
<axis id="x" length="100" maxfeedrate="5000" scale="94.1397046"/>
<!-- sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="y" length="100" maxfeedrate="5000" scale="94.1397046"/>
<!-- sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="z" length="100" maxfeedrate="150" scale="2560"/> <!--
sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="a" length="100000" maxfeedrate="5000"
scale="732.00269118636510257142857142857"/>
</geometry>
<tools>
<tool name="Mk5/6/6+ w/ABP" type="extruder" material="abs"
automatedplatform="true" heatedplatform="true" heater="true"
stepper_axis="a"/>
</tools>
<clamps></clamps>
<driver name="makerbot4g">
<!-- optional, defaults to first serial port found.
<portname>COM1</portname> -->
<!-- required: we need 8 bit and 38400 baud. -->
<rate>38400</rate>
<parity>8</parity>
<!-- optional, defaults to 1. <databits>1</
databits> -->
<!-- optional, defaults to N. <stopbits>N</
stopbits> -->
<!--<debuglevel>5</debuglevel>-->
</driver>
<warmup>
</warmup>
<cooldown>
(Turn off steppers after a build.)
M18
</cooldown>
</machine>

Aaron Double

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Jan 14, 2012, 9:09:39 AM1/14/12
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Are you printing something really small and do you have cool on?

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Rob Giseburt

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Jan 14, 2012, 9:48:35 AM1/14/12
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Skeinforge:
The Filament Diameter in Dimension is in mm.
The Packing Sensity is a fraction. So, go 85%, enter .85. It should
(roughly) be between .85 and 1.0.

-Rob

technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 10:50:26 AM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
Thank you all for the feedback.

* Direct drive - using the gear that was on the DC motor.
* Mostly printing the calibration cube - but tried the coat hook too
(not small) http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:49

* Using the unmodified "3G 5D (Dimension) Example v2" profile
** Cool is on...but again, these are large layers that would take
longer than 10 seconds to print, right?

* Filament diameter in that profile is currently 1.741mm (I'm using
3mm filament, 2.85mm measured)
** I have entered the measured diameter in Print-o-matic, does that
override the profile?
* Packing density is 0.96

* I have also duplicated the original profile, changing the Filament
diameter to 2.85mm
** Multiply was on in the original profile (2x4), and I've turned it
off in this one
* Changed the packing density to 0.85

Here is the machine information:
Machine Driver XML:
<machine>
<name>3G 5D Cupcake (Pololu XYZ, Mk5/6+Pololu Extruder)</name>
<geometry type="cartesian">
<!-- different pulleys on X and Y axii -->
<axis id="x" length="100" maxfeedrate="5000" scale="94.1397046"/>
<!-- sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="y" length="100" maxfeedrate="5000" scale="94.1397046"/>
<!-- sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="z" length="100" maxfeedrate="150" scale="2560"/> <!--
sixteenth-step driver -->
<axis id="a" length="100000" maxfeedrate="5000"
scale="100.470957613814818"/>
</geometry>
<tools>
<tool collet="false" fan="true" floodcoolant="false"
heatedplatform="true" heater="true" material="abs" mistcoolant="false"
motor_steps="400" name="Mk5/6/6+" stepper_axis="a" type="extruder"
valve="false"/>
</tools>
<clamps/>
<driver name="makerbot4g">
<!-- optional, defaults to first serial port found.
<portname>COM1</portname> -->
<!-- required: we need 8 bit and 38400 baud. -->
<rate>38400</rate>
<parity>8</parity>
<!-- optional, defaults to 1. <databits>1</
databits> -->
<!-- optional, defaults to N. <stopbits>N</
stopbits> -->
<!--<debuglevel>5</debuglevel>-->
</driver>
<warmup>
</warmup>
<cooldown>
(Turn off steppers after a build.)
M18
</cooldown>
</machine>


Using this profile:
3G 5D (Dimension) v2, modified as:
* multiply disabled
* 2.85mm filament diameter
* 0.85 packing density
* Print-O-Matic *not* selected in the Generate GCode window

Here is the head of one of the coat hook gcode files:
(<alteration>)
(**** beginning of start.txt ****)
(This file has been sliced using Skeinforge 35)
(**** begin initilization commands ****)
G21 (set units to mm)
G90 (set positioning to absolute)
M104 S220 T0 (set extruder temperature)
M109 S110 T0 (set heated-build-platform temperature)
(**** end initilization commands ****)
(**** begin homing ****)
G92 X0 Y0 Z0 E0 (You are now at 0,0,0)
G1 F2400.0
G1 Z15.0 F2400.0 (Move up for warmup)
(**** end homing ****)
(**** begin pre-wipe commands ****)
M6 T0 (Wait for tool to heat up)
G1 F50.0
G1 X0.0 Y0.0 Z15.0 E10 F50.0
G1 F2400.0
G1 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 Z0.0.0 E10 F2400.0 (Go back to zero.)
G92 E0 (You are now at E0 again)
(**** end pre-wipe commands ****)
M106 (fan on)
(**** end of start.txt ****)
(</alteration>)
(<creation> skeinforge </creation>)
(<version> 11.02.23 </version>)
(<extruderInitialization>)
(<craftTypeName> extrusion </craftTypeName>)
M105
(<bridgeWidthMultiplier> 1.0 </bridgeWidthMultiplier>)
(<decimalPlacesCarried> 3 </decimalPlacesCarried>)
(<infillWidth> 0.5 </infillWidth>)
(<layerThickness> 0.3 </layerThickness>)
(<threadSequenceString> loops perimeter infill </
threadSequenceString>)
(<operatingFeedRatePerSecond> 35.0 </operatingFeedRatePerSecond>)
(<operatingFlowRate> 35.0 </operatingFlowRate>)
(<orbitalFeedRatePerSecond> 17.5 </orbitalFeedRatePerSecond>)
(<travelFeedRatePerSecond> 50.0 </travelFeedRatePerSecond>)
(<coolingRate> 2.0 </coolingRate>)
(<heatingRate> 1.5 </heatingRate>)
(<baseTemperature> 225.0 </baseTemperature>)
(<interfaceTemperature> 225.0 </interfaceTemperature>)
(<objectFirstLayerInfillTemperature> 225.0 </
objectFirstLayerInfillTemperature>)
(<objectFirstLayerPerimeterTemperature> 225.0 </
objectFirstLayerPerimeterTemperature>)
(<objectNextLayersTemperature> 225.0 </objectNextLayersTemperature>)
(<supportLayersTemperature> 225.0 </supportLayersTemperature>)
(<supportedLayersTemperature> 225.0 </supportedLayersTemperature>)
(<skirtOutset> 0.996 </skirtOutset>)
(<perimeterWidth> 0.498 </perimeterWidth>)
(<profileName> ABS </profileName>)
(<procedureName> carve </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> preface </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> inset </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> fill </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> speed </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> temperature </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> raft </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> skirt </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> chamber </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> cool </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> dimension </procedureName>)
(<procedureName> export </procedureName>)
(</extruderInitialization>)
(<crafting>)
M140 S110.0
M141 S30.0
M142 S0.0
;M113 S1.0
M108 S35.0
M104 S225.0
(<layer> 0.15 )
(<skirt>)
M108 S14.0
G1 X-11.43 Y35.25 Z0.15 F3000.0
G1 F1200.0
G1 E2.5
G1 F3000.0
G92 E0
M101
G1 X-12.75 Y35.64 Z0.15 F840.0 E0.038
G1 X-17.43 Y30.7 Z0.15 F840.0 E0.226
G1 X-17.43 Y29.52 Z0.15 F840.0 E0.258
G1 X1.89 Y10.38 Z0.15 F840.0 E1.007
G1 X9.43 Y-6.19 Z0.15 F840.0 E1.509
G1 X9.42 Y-20.72 Z0.15 F840.0 E1.909
G1 X6.6 Y-24.49 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.039
G1 X3.46 Y-23.48 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.13
G1 X-5.32 Y-14.44 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.477
G1 X-6.25 Y-14.44 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.502
G1 X-9.24 Y-17.23 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.615
G1 X-11.91 Y-20.29 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.727
G1 X-11.26 Y-21.46 Z0.15 F840.0 E2.764
G1 X2.38 Y-35.21 Z0.15 F840.0 E3.298
G1 X3.23 Y-35.69 Z0.15 F840.0 E3.324
G1 X17.01 Y-35.62 Z0.15 F840.0 E3.704
G1 X17.58 Y-34.63 Z0.15 F840.0 E3.736
G1 X17.61 Y5.67 Z0.15 F840.0 E4.846
G1 X17.28 Y6.48 Z0.15 F840.0 E4.87
G1 X-11.43 Y35.25 Z0.15 F840.0 E5.99
G1 F1200.0
G1 E3.49
G1 F840.0
M103
M108 S35.0
(</skirt>)

On Jan 14, 9:48 am, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Skeinforge:
> The Filament Diameter in Dimension is in mm.
> The Packing Sensity is a fraction. So, go 85%, enter .85. It should
> (roughly) be between .85 and 1.0.
>
>   -Rob
>

technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 11:02:28 AM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
The above gcode is indeed extruding the layers, though the base infill
seemed really thick (the toolhead smudged through it).

On Jan 14, 10:50 am, technophobe <fuba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you all for the feedback.
>
> * Direct drive - using the gear that was on the DC motor.
> * Mostly printing the calibration cube - but tried the coat hook too
> (not small)http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:49

technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 11:32:34 AM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
The coat hook printed well - using the above settings.
The skirt has fused to the base layers, though - what is a good offset
distance for that?

technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 11:36:09 AM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
Using Print-O-Matic results in unusually small E commands. Is Print-O-
Matic compatible with the Dimension plugin?

(<skirt>)
M108 S0.8367
G1 X-11.74 Y35.58 Z0.13 F3000.0
G1 F1200.0
G1 E2.5
G1 F3000.0
G92 E0
M101
G1 X-13.09 Y35.3 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.001
G1 X-17.61 Y30.53 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.008
G1 X-17.61 Y29.68 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.009
G1 X1.83 Y10.42 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.035
G1 X9.42 Y-6.18 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.053
G1 X9.41 Y-20.79 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.067
G1 X6.58 Y-24.5 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.071
G1 X3.45 Y-23.46 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.075
G1 X-5.17 Y-14.59 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.087
G1 X-6.42 Y-14.59 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.088
G1 X-9.28 Y-17.25 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.092
G1 X-11.45 Y-19.74 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.095
G1 X-11.85 Y-20.88 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.096
G1 X2.42 Y-35.26 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.116
G1 X3.29 Y-35.7 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.117
G1 X16.47 Y-35.63 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.129
G1 X17.59 Y-34.67 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.131
G1 X17.61 Y6.17 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.171
G1 X-11.74 Y35.58 Z0.13 F1200.0 E0.211
G1 F1200.0
G1 E-2.289
G1 F1200.0
M103
M108 S2.092
(</skirt>)

On Jan 14, 11:02 am, technophobe <fuba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rob Giseburt

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Jan 14, 2012, 12:27:33 PM1/14/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
Print-O-Matic, when switched to Skeinforge 44, will work. Note that
the packing density setting is in percent and not a fraction.

Also note that, as it currently stands, PoM is completely decoupled
from the profile. Settings set in PoM override the profile, but
changes in the profile will not be loaded back into PoM.

-Rob

technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 12:30:47 PM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
Do you mean if I select SF44 as the "Gcode Generator" then Print-O-
Matic will work, or is this an upcoming change I should wait for?

Again, thank you for the help.

-r

On Jan 14, 12:27 pm, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Print-O-Matic, when switched to Skeinforge 44, will work. Note that
> the packing density setting is in percent and not a fraction.
>
> Also note that, as it currently stands, PoM is completely decoupled
> from the profile. Settings set in PoM override the profile, but
> changes in the profile will not be loaded back into PoM.
>
>   -Rob
>
> ...
>
> read more »

Rob Giseburt

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Jan 14, 2012, 12:37:15 PM1/14/12
to make...@googlegroups.com
In recent versions of RepG, I think since SF44 was added, yes.

  -Rob

technophobe

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Jan 14, 2012, 1:37:19 PM1/14/12
to MakerBot Operators
To wrap up this thread, I suppose the issue is attributable to user
error...I didn't realize that I could not use Print-o-matic with
Dimension when using Skeinforge 40.

Print-o-matic with Skeinforge 44 and Rob's Dimension profile is
working for me now.

Thanks again.
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