PEG confusion

[Frank]

So, I'm a wee bit confused and I apologize if this was brought up before. Is there a "de facto" standard for the would-be PEG grammar of lojban? Is it .alyn.'s? Robin's? Are We going by the principle of "Anyone willing to 'roll Their own' can, if not should, do so and We'll sort out the differences later"?

Just curious.

[.alyn.post.]

I'd like mine to be the official one. It requires more work on my
end yet before I consider it in good enough shape to submit as a
proposal.

There are not substantive differences, right now, between
jbogenturfa'i and camxes. The files are different at the bit-level,
but the parser level produces the same result. Robin and I have
shared patches as errata have come up.

The grammars will diverge when I merge my magic-word work. I got
burned out on that effort last year and have been trying to restart
it. It is standing in the way of other work I'd also like to do.
So far life keeps intervening.

mi'e .alyn.

On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 03:58:26PM -0500, Frank wrote:
> So, I'm a wee bit confused and I apologize if this was brought up before.
> Is there a "de facto" standard for the would-be PEG grammar of lojban? Is
> it .alyn.'s? Robin's? Are We going by the principle of "Anyone willing to

> 'roll Their own' can, if not*should,*do so*and We'll sort out the

> differences later"?
> Just curious.
>

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[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:07 PM, .alyn.post. <alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:

I'd like mine to be the official one.  It requires more work on my
end yet before I consider it in good enough shape to submit as a
proposal.

There are not substantive differences, right now, between
jbogenturfa'i and camxes.  The files are different at the bit-level,
but the parser level produces the same result.  Robin and I have
shared patches as errata have come up.

The grammars will diverge when I merge my magic-word work.  I got
burned out on that effort last year and have been trying to restart
it.  It is standing in the way of other work I'd also like to do.
So far life keeps intervening.

You mean, because you'll /have/ magic-word parsing, which no other parser has as of yet?

mi'e .alyn.

On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 03:58:26PM -0500, Frank wrote:
>    So, I'm a wee bit confused and I apologize if this was brought up before.
>    Is there a "de facto" standard for the would-be PEG grammar of lojban? Is
>    it .alyn.'s? Robin's? Are We going by the principle of "Anyone willing to

>    'roll Their own' can, if not*should,*do so*and We'll sort out the

>    differences later"?
>    Just curious.
>
>    --
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[Robin Lee Powell]

On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 02:27:12PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:07 PM, .alyn.post.
> <alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org>wrote:
>
> > I'd like mine to be the official one. It requires more work on
> > my end yet before I consider it in good enough shape to submit
> > as a proposal.
> >
> > There are not substantive differences, right now, between
> > jbogenturfa'i and camxes. The files are different at the
> > bit-level, but the parser level produces the same result. Robin
> > and I have shared patches as errata have come up.
> >
> > The grammars will diverge when I merge my magic-word work. I
> > got burned out on that effort last year and have been trying to
> > restart it. It is standing in the way of other work I'd also
> > like to do. So far life keeps intervening.
> >
>
> You mean, because you'll /have/ magic-word parsing, which no other
> parser has as of yet?

camxes most certainly *does* have magic word parsing:

rlpowell@stodi> echo 'mi klama lo nu do klama si si sutra' | camxes
text
sentence
|- CMAVO
| KOhA: mi
|- bridiTail3
|- BRIVLA
| gismu: klama
|- sumti6
|- CMAVO
| LE: lo
|- tanruUnit2
|- CMAVO
| NU: nu
|- BRIVLA
gismu: sutra

-Robin

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 02:27:12PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:07 PM, .alyn.post.
> <alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org>wrote:
>
> > I'd like mine to be the official one.  It requires more work on
> > my end yet before I consider it in good enough shape to submit
> > as a proposal.
> >
> > There are not substantive differences, right now, between
> > jbogenturfa'i and camxes.  The files are different at the
> > bit-level, but the parser level produces the same result.  Robin
> > and I have shared patches as errata have come up.
> >
> > The grammars will diverge when I merge my magic-word work.  I
> > got burned out on that effort last year and have been trying to
> > restart it.  It is standing in the way of other work I'd also
> > like to do. So far life keeps intervening.
> >
>
> You mean, because you'll /have/ magic-word parsing, which no other
> parser has as of yet?

camxes most certainly *does* have magic word parsing:

Well, si is easy. IIRC, sa and su aren't working in jbosku or .camxes., and there are some magic word combos that aren't worked out either, like zo si (although I'm sure zo si is worked out to be: zo si = "si", zo si si = "".)
 

rlpowell@stodi> echo 'mi klama lo nu do klama si si sutra' | camxes
text
   sentence
   |- CMAVO
   |     KOhA: mi
   |- bridiTail3
      |- BRIVLA
      |     gismu: klama
      |- sumti6
         |- CMAVO
         |     LE: lo
         |- tanruUnit2
            |- CMAVO
            |     NU: nu
            |- BRIVLA
                  gismu: sutra

-Robin

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[Robin Lee Powell]

On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 03:08:50PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 02:27:12PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:07 PM, .alyn.post.
> > > <alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org>wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'd like mine to be the official one. It requires more work on
> > > > my end yet before I consider it in good enough shape to submit
> > > > as a proposal.
> > > >
> > > > There are not substantive differences, right now, between
> > > > jbogenturfa'i and camxes. The files are different at the
> > > > bit-level, but the parser level produces the same result. Robin
> > > > and I have shared patches as errata have come up.
> > > >
> > > > The grammars will diverge when I merge my magic-word work. I
> > > > got burned out on that effort last year and have been trying to
> > > > restart it. It is standing in the way of other work I'd also
> > > > like to do. So far life keeps intervening.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You mean, because you'll /have/ magic-word parsing, which no other
> > > parser has as of yet?
> >
> > camxes most certainly *does* have magic word parsing:
> >
>
> Well, si is easy. IIRC, sa and su aren't working in jbosku or .camxes., and
> there are some magic word combos that aren't worked out either, like zo si
> (although I'm sure zo si is worked out to be: zo si = "si", zo si si = "".)

The problem is that the CLL's explanations of magic words *cannot*
be reconciled; there are direct contradictions. "su" is, in fact,
working, and while sa isn't perfect, it works too:

rlpowell@stodi> echo 'mi klama lo klama sa le sutra' | camxes

text
sentence
|- CMAVO
| KOhA: mi
|- bridiTail3
|- BRIVLA
| gismu: klama
|- sumti6
|- CMAVO

| LE: le
|- BRIVLA
gismu: sutra

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Magic+Words encodes the decisions I made
in camxes; in some places camxes doesn't actually do what that page
says, and in some places even with how detailed that page tried to
be it's *still* incomplete. That's why aisa is working on it.

-Robin

[la gleki]

Sorry for stupid questions (I haven't looked at the code). Is camxes based on initial BNF parser, just adapted?

Or was it written from scratch?

[Robin Lee Powell]

It's not just rewritten from scratch, it's a completely different
parsing abstraction. The parser table started with the EBNF,
though.

-Robin

On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 10:02:49PM -0800, la gleki wrote:
> Sorry for stupid questions (I haven't looked at the code). Is camxes based
> on initial BNF parser, just adapted?
> Or was it written from scratch?
>
>
> On Thursday, January 3, 2013 2:21:34 AM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 03:08:50PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > > rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org <javascript:>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 02:27:12PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:07 PM, .alyn.post.

> > > > > <alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org <javascript:>>wrote:

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