Several beginner's questions
gleki
So I marked them with numbers. Hope you'll answer at least on some of them.
1. How to say "trace, trail" and correspondingly "fingerprint" ?
2. What is the word "parcatu" mentioned at http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/drbible/drbible_3.html#papipamoi-pagbu ?
3. OK, I use "xu" when putting questions. But imagine that I haven't got a reply to my question. How to cancel my question and go on speaking ?
4. As far as I could understand "go'i" in replies changes "mi" to "do" and vice versa. Is it the only rule ? In my opinion the explanation in the book isn't comprehensive enough.
5. How to say "merry-go-round", "Ferris wheel" and "swing" ? I suggest "zdipincarcukla", "zdirajycarcukla" and "zdislita'o" respectively.
Pierre Abbat
> I got several questions when reading the grammar and trying to translate
> something.
> So I marked them with numbers. Hope you'll answer at least on some of them.
>
> 1. How to say "trace, trail" and correspondingly "fingerprint" ?
> 2. What is the word "parcatu" mentioned at
> http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/drbible/drbible_3.html#papipamoi-p
>agbu ?
"parcatu" is from Hebrew "parshah" which is a kind of section of the Bible.
The translation is now in github; if you'd like to work on it, let me know
off-list.
Pierre
--
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.
Timo Paulssen
On 17.09.2011 15:09, gleki wrote:
> 4. As far as I could understand "go'i" in replies changes "mi" to "do" and
> vice versa. Is it the only rule ? In my opinion the explanation in the book
> isn't comprehensive enough.
The rule isn't based on "replace A with B", it's this: When saying go'i, not the
word itself is repeated, but its meaning. So if I am conversing with my friends
alis and martin, it would work like this:
mi: doi alis do xu klama le zarci
martin: go'i
in this case martin repeats/replies with "la alis klama le zarci", because the
"do" from my sentence referred to alis.
There is another word, called ra'o, which makes the words behave differently. If
you say {go'i ra'o}, it's not the meaning that is repaced, but the words are
interpreted again:
mi: mi nelci lo gerku
alis: go'i ra'o
now what alis says is {mi nelci lo gerku}, so {go'i ra'o} often translates to
"me, too!" in english.
I hope i didn't add to your confusion, but instead subtracted from it :)
have fun with lojban!
mu'o mi'e timos
gleki
Alex Rozenshteyn
I think it's actually easier to explain with (e.g.) {ta}.
{ta} is defined to be the thing at which you are pointing, so if I say {.i ta mo}, you have to notice what I'm pointing at to figure out what I'm asking about. If I ask {xu do nelci ta}, I'm asking you if you like the thing I'm pointing at. Once I've identified it by pointing, it doesn't matter where I point, because the thing I was referring to at the moment I asked the question doesn't change. If you say {go'i}, all the same things are still in the sentence, so even though you may have been pointing at something else (or at nothing at all), it didn't change what you agreed to liking. If, on the other hand, you say {go'i ta}, you're commenting that you like some different thing, which you are identifying by pointing at, which may happen to be the same thing I pointed to, but isn't necessarily.
Similarly, the word {mi} identifies a thing (namely the person or group of people saying it) and {do} identifies a thing (the person or group of people being addressed). Once you've said them, the words have performed their duty and are no longer relevant, but the things they identify stay as part of the meaning of the sentence.
If I ask {xu do nelci lo najnimre} (Do you like oranges?), anyone who says {go'i} is repeating the meaning of the sentence, namely that "you", the person to whom {do} referred at the time I said it, like oranges.
Does that help?
I'm not going to work on the Bible. Too difficult for me yet.I just didn't find this word "parcatu" anywhere on the web. It's not in jbovlaste either.
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gleki
Adam Lopresto
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gleki
.arpis.
5: Your suggestions look fine.
OK. Thanks for your replies !I have questions # 1, 3 and 5 left !
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mu'o mi'e .arpis.
Pierre Abbat
> something.
> So I marked them with numbers. Hope you'll answer at least on some of them.
>
> 1. How to say "trace, trail" and correspondingly "fingerprint" ?
For "fingerprint" I'd say "degba'a". For "trace" or "trail", maybe "klaba'a".
> 2. What is the word "parcatu" mentioned at
> http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/drbible/drbible_3.html#papipamoi-p
>agbu ?
I was about to leave, so I gave a quick answer. It means one of the 54
sections that the Torah is divided into, read one each week, except for a few
doublings up. (The Hebrew calendar is lunisolar and has some years with 13
months.) The title of each is taken from the first few words. The ones in
Lojban, with the Hebrew originals, are:
krasi - bere'shit "in beginning" (also the title of the book
no,ax - noach "Noah" 6:9
ko klama - lekh lkha "go ye" 12:1
jarco - vayyera' "he showed" 18:1
la .sarat. pu nanca - chayey sarah "Lives of Sarah" 23:1
dzecitri - toldot "generations" 25:19
cliva - vayetse' "he left" 28:10
lidne benji - vayishlach "he sent" 32:4
xabju - vayeshev "he dwelt" 37:1
co'u nanca - miqets "at the end of" 41:1
In the webpage, they appear piled up from "no,ax" to "lidne benji", because
the text between them hasn't been translated. They should be converted to
USFM heading markup.
> 3. OK, I use "xu" when putting questions. But imagine that I haven't got a
> reply to my question. How to cancel my question and go on speaking ?
I'm not sure without seeing the context, but you can say "xunai".
> 5. How to say "merry-go-round", "Ferris wheel" and "swing" ? I suggest
> "zdipincarcukla", "zdirajycarcukla" and "zdislita'o" respectively.
Those sound good, but a swing seat is sometimes a plastic strap instead of a
board. How about "zdidadysli"?
Timo Paulssen
> Your explanation is'nt enough for me. How can software determine what
> is the sense if not applying strict rules ? "Sense" is not a term of
> logic. Is there some lack of logic in logical language here
I fear you've misunderstood me. The program would determine what's going on by
applying the strict rule "repeat the meaning of the previous sentence,
unchanged", or with {ra'o} added: "repeat the sentence while re-evaluating each
word".
gleki
Pierre Abbat
> As for the term "trace" what about klapri (klama prina) ?
Yes, and of course "degypri" for fingerprint. I had forgotten about "prina".
"Suivez mes Thraces!" - A slavemonger in an Astérix book.
Pierre
--
li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci
gleki
Pierre Abbat
> OK, then what is the order of sumti in klapri and degypri ?
degypri: p1 is a fingerprint on surface p2 made by finger/toe p3=d1. Possibly
the limb and the whole body go in x4 and x5.
klapri: p1 is a track on p2 made by p3=k1, probably including destination,
origin, and route as further places. However, if it's the track of a vehicle,
then p3=k5, not k1.
Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.
Luke Bergen
hmm, literally the place structure of degypri makes sense but then, given that fingerprints are most often used for identification purposes I'm surprised that "lo prenu po'e d3" doesn't get an early slot
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gleki
Pierre Abbat
Just start using them :) You may want to enter them in jbovlaste.
It's very common that words in two languages do not cover the same
meaning. "Trace" also means the sum of the diagonal elements of a matrix, but
I would not call that "klapri", though in German "Spur" (cognate to "spoor")
is used.
Another word you could use for "fingerprint" is "prepri", which also includes
footprints: x1 is a print made on x2 by person x3. I'd use that for the
distinctive mark of a person, when it's not important which finger of which
hand made the print.