New forum, Restore the old one, or Keep this one?

[funBart]

There is and was some discussion about the future of the Kisslicer forum

As many probably know, this forum is set-up by me because the official forum on Kisslkicer.com was polluted by spam in absence of Jonathan; therefore the name: Kisslicer Refugee Camp. 

Now Jonathan has returned and is in the process to finalize the Beta, it's a good moment to discuss how we all would continue with the Kisslicer forum.

It seems we have three options:

• Stay here at Google Groups
• Migrate to a new forum, already set-up by Plexuss:  kisslicertalk.com 
• Restore the old forum, owned by Jonathan: kisslicer.com

Some considerations I have:

• There should be only one Kisslicer forum, to have all info at one place. Jonathan has to agree it's the official forum, whether it's owned by him or not.
• To avoid the problems we had with the original forum: there should be several administrators with full access to whatever forum we choose. At the moment we have two "lonesocks', two general experienced Kisslicer users and two CubeltMod/Cube-X experts. A team like we now have -or even more- seems to me ideal.
• The Google Group possibilities are very limited: a wider range of possibilities as the old one or  kisslicertalk.com would be great. More Subforums are definitely making it easier to find info. Same for search: it's not possible to search in the content of Google Groups, only in the subjects of posts (amazing limitation IMO).
• By migrating we are not 'owned' by Google anymore.
• A lot of other 3D Printer manufacturers / users are using the well known Google Groups as well, so a lot of people are familiar with the look-and-feel.
• There has been absolute NO spam in this forum. For that aspect it's very easy to maintain. It seems other type of forums are fighting spam with much more effort.
• It seems that migrating info in Google Group only is possible to another Google Group. But we can do the same when we made this forum: copy the most important info. We can lock this forum as well, so no new posting is possible, but you can still read the info.
• We now have more than 2000 members, it will be the second migration within a year, maybe we loose people by that, but OTOH, a simple redirect / new link on the Kisslicer.com site would do the trick.
• I put over 200 hours in this forum ^%#@%*((&! 
• The new forum has to be backed-up to another place on daily bases. So when the owner of the place it's hosted went nuts, got a midlife crisis, or chooses to live in a better world, we are able to host the site on another place. Where do you host Kisslicertalk, Plexuss? At home or a data-centre or so?
• A considerable part of this forum is populated by Cube-x users. Do they want to migrate with Kisslicer, or do they want their own place? Or do want to stay here when the 'official' Kisslicer forum is migrating?

Not all important points, but that's all I could think off. 

Please let's hear your voice, what you think about those points and whatever other consideration.

Although it's tempting, there will be no another Poll by me ;-)

Thanks!

Bart

[aaron ramsey]

It seems to me that it is in Jonathon's best interest to host the forums on the main kisslicer website, rather than with a 3rd party that may lose interest at some point in the future. So my vote is to move back to the original forums... maybe a week spent under the covers cleaning out the current spam, update to the latest software, add a couple of moderators and get started.

Aaron

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:08 AM, funBart <fun...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is and was some discussion about the future of the Kisslicer forum

As many probably know, this forum is set-up by me because the official forum on Kisslkicer.com was polluted by spam in absence of Jonathan; therefore the name: Kisslicer Refugee Camp. 

Now Jonathan has returned and is in the process to finalize the Beta, it's a good moment to discuss how we all would continue with the Kisslicer forum.

It seems we have three options:

• Stay here at Google Groups
• Migrate to a new forum, already set-up by Plexuss:  kisslicertalk.com 
• Restore the old forum, owned by Jonathan: kisslicer.com

Some considerations I have:

• There should be only one Kisslicer forum, to have all info at one place. Jonathan has to agree it's the official forum, whether it's owned by him or not.
• To avoid the problems we had with the original forum: there should be several administrators with full access to whatever forum we choose. At the moment we have two "lonesocks', two general experienced Kisslicer users and two CubeltMod/Cube-X experts. A team like we now have -or even more- seems to me ideal.
• The Google Group possibilities are very limited: a wider range of possibilities as the old one or  kisslicertalk.com would be great. More Subforums are definitely making it easier to find info. Same for search: it's not possible to search in the content of Google Groups, only in the subjects of posts (amazing limitation IMO).
• By migrating we are not 'owned' by Google anymore.

• It seems that migrating info in Google Group only is possible to another Google Group. But we can do the same when we made this forum: copy the most important info. We can lock this forum as well, so no new posting is possible, but you can still read the info.

• We now have more than 2000 members, it will be the second migration within a year, maybe we loose people by that, but OTOH, a simple redirect / new link on the Kisslicer.com side would do the trick.

• I put over 200 hours in this forum ^%#@%*((&! 
• The new forum has to be backed-up to another place on daily bases. So when the owner of the place it's hosted went nuts, got a midlife crisis, or chooses to live in a better world, we are able to host the site on another place. Where do you host Kisslicertalk, Plexuss? At home or a data-centre or so?
• A considerable part of this forum is populated by Cube-x users. Do they want to migrate with Kisslicer, or do they want their own place? Or do want to stay here when the 'official' Kisslicer forum is migrating?

Please let's hear your voice, what you think about those points and whatever other consideration.

Although it's tempting, there will be no another Poll by me ;-)

Thanks!

Bart

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[Davide Ardizzoia]

Sorry to ditch Plexxus, but havin'  a single KS site is better., from user point of view.

I vote therefore to return home.

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

Il giorno giovedì 11 settembre 2014 16:08:40 UTC+2, funBart ha scritto:

There is and was some discussion about the future of the Kisslicer forum

As many probably know, this forum is set-up by me because the official forum on Kisslkicer.com was polluted by spam in absence of Jonathan; therefore the name: Kisslicer Refugee Camp. 

Now Jonathan has returned and is in the process to finalize the Beta, it's a good moment to discuss how we all would continue with the Kisslicer forum.

It seems we have three options:

• Stay here at Google Groups
• Migrate to a new forum, already set-up by Plexuss:  kisslicertalk.com 
• Restore the old forum, owned by Jonathan: kisslicer.com

Some considerations I have:

• There should be only one Kisslicer forum, to have all info at one place. Jonathan has to agree it's the official forum, whether it's owned by him or not.
• To avoid the problems we had with the original forum: there should be several administrators with full access to whatever forum we choose. At the moment we have two "lonesocks', two general experienced Kisslicer users and two CubeltMod/Cube-X experts. A team like we now have -or even more- seems to me ideal.
• The Google Group possibilities are very limited: a wider range of possibilities as the old one or  kisslicertalk.com would be great. More Subforums are definitely making it easier to find info. Same for search: it's not possible to search in the content of Google Groups, only in the subjects of posts (amazing limitation IMO).
• By migrating we are not 'owned' by Google anymore.

• A lot of other 3D Printer manufacturers / users are using the well known Google Groups as well, so a lot of people are familiar with the look-and-feel.
• There has been absolute NO spam in this forum. For that aspect it's very easy to maintain. It seems other type of forums are fighting spam with much more effort.

• It seems that migrating info in Google Group only is possible to another Google Group. But we can do the same when we made this forum: copy the most important info. We can lock this forum as well, so no new posting is possible, but you can still read the info.

• We now have more than 2000 members, it will be the second migration within a year, maybe we loose people by that, but OTOH, a simple redirect / new link on the Kisslicer.com site would do the trick.

• I put over 200 hours in this forum ^%#@%*((&! 
• The new forum has to be backed-up to another place on daily bases. So when the owner of the place it's hosted went nuts, got a midlife crisis, or chooses to live in a better world, we are able to host the site on another place. Where do you host Kisslicertalk, Plexuss? At home or a data-centre or so?
• A considerable part of this forum is populated by Cube-x users. Do they want to migrate with Kisslicer, or do they want their own place? Or do want to stay here when the 'official' Kisslicer forum is migrating?

Not all important points, but that's all I could think off. 

Please let's hear your voice, what you think about those points and whatever other consideration.

[Bo Herrmannsen]

i mostly just delete the posts from here since many of them are not
direct related to the software but rather related to different 3D
printers and kisslicer...

but one point made my internal gauge go near the red field...

"The new forum has to be backed-up to another place on daily bases. So
when the owner of the place it's hosted went nuts, got a midlife
crisis, or chooses to live in a better world, we are able to host the
site on another place. Where do you host Kisslicertalk, Plexuss? At
home or a data-centre or so?"

Who are we to decide anything in here? Is it not Jonathon that is
behind kisslicer? and as he is the man behind it should he not be the
one that decides what goes and not?

if you ask me he even has the right to hit the master delete and leave
us behind strandeded if that pleases him.... might be an extreme
example but i hope you catch the drift....


but yes... a more dedicated forum would be an plus with sub
categories.... makes it more easy to follow what is most important to
you and not get a big pile of mail that might not interest you at all.

would add that system to handle bugs reports and feature requests
could also be usefull.... and an area where you can submit setup files
so they could be included in next release...

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kisslicer-refugee-camp/CAJHAoYzrVF99-bS9maH3999dQb4%2BuKNmnK8S2cMOdWDYsPUNdA%40mail.gmail.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
|||||
@(~Ô^Ô~)@
-------------oOo---U---oOo-------------
| |
| Bo Herrmannsen |
| |
| |
| "blessed are the "cracked", |
| for its they who let in the light" |
| Ooo |
|_________________ooO____( )________|
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

[Bo Herrmannsen]

me too.... there are limits on how long refugee's should be in a camp :-D

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[funBart]

On Thursday, 11 September 2014 16:43:53 UTC+2, Bo Herrmannsen wrote:

if you ask me he even has the right to hit the master delete and leave
us behind strandeded if that pleases him.... might be an extreme
example but i hope you catch the drift....

Completely disagree: the right to communicate between Kisslicer users and the ownership of the software are completely different things.

Actually: Jonathan has pulled the plug out of Kisslicer for a while: that's the reason this forum exists and is 'owned' by me (and got it's name, as it was a Refugee Camp, because we got no place to go) . I'm pretty sure the effort of a lot of users here is the reason Kisslicer could start up quickly again after the abscense of Jonathan.

That said: my personal vote would be to go back to the original forum, but only if Jonathan is granting others complete admin-access. Otherwise the site of Plexuss would have my vote.

Bart

[James Pelt]

Staying on topic, my vote as the newest member is to "go home" however I do agree with the request for a separate admin/moderator team.


On a side note...

On Thursday, September 11, 2014 9:43:53 AM UTC-5, Bo Herrmannsen wrote:

i mostly just delete the posts from here since many of them are not
direct related to the software but rather related to different 3D
printers and kisslicer...

I am confused. Is it not appropriate to discuss and resolve issues with the software as it is used on various specific printers? 

[Bo Herrmannsen]

yes but the stream is to big.... the posts that i do read are those
that relates to different features in kisslicer....

but you are right.... resolve of issues that are printer spec is ok....

but a forum with sub cat's would be better so each user can focus on
what he wants

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[garr...@gmail.com]

I find it difficult to use this Google forum. I'd vote to use almost any other forum software but this.

[hugues]

I don't want to speak for all Cubex user but I prefer to stay with the Kisslicer forum as CubeItMod is link to the evolution of Kisslicer and lot of informations or advices from other brand machines user.
Maybe a special section for Cubex in the new forum would be great. As we need to have a thread for new user and an other for advance user.

Thanks admin for your works !

[3D_er]

i think having a forum directly linked from the kisslicer domain is best. also i support whatever decision he chooses.  rock on KS!

[Pablo Fiestas]

I don't know how was the forum before, but I think the best choice is a forum that support categories/subforums. I think that would make a more organized forum (not like this :P )

[frozen...@yahoo.com]

Original forum please.

[Mitchell Rabushka]

I vote for hosting the Forum on the KISSlicer website and to have at least one other admin besides Jonathan so he has the time to keep doing all the marvelous things he's been doing with KISSlicer.

[Lawrence LaRocque]

I vote to move back to the original forum hosted on KS.com

[Matthew Welker]

As a cubex user also, I agree with hughes.  As far a switching, I'm down for whatever.  Thanks admins and lonestock!  KS is the best!!!

[robert....@gmail.com]

Definitely go back home. Google groups is one of the most frustrating things I have to deal with on a semi regular basis. There is no order, it just feels chaotic and unwieldy to me. A good ol forum is much easier to peruse. Ability to group discussions in subforums and a logical chronological order to the posts are the main things I miss.

[max72]

While google groups is quite spamless the fruibility is worse than anything else I ever used.

For what I know ordinary forums usually fight spam with the help of a bunch of users with moderator rights.

I think this could be done also in our case.

It mus be said at the moment kisslicertalk has two posts, one of which is spam, so spam fighting will not be an easy task :-)

For sure the forum has to be independent, and owned by the users.

This will lighten the load on Joanathan (he'll still have bugs, feature requets, rants..).

On the other hand this way the forum cannot enter in a self locking mode.

Massimo

[Lothar Merl]

My vote is for a single kisslicer site, too.

Or anything but Google. This java-script LOADED thing is a pain in the a**. Especially on mobile devices.

My 2ct

  Lothar

[Peter Gregory]

The new forum looks good.
There are already two posts - one is spam!
I'm good for moving to the new forum.
I'd be happy to help out.
I agree a special sub-forum for Cubex users would be good.
We are "special needs" because the firmware works "differently".
There is another Cubex google group out there - Cubex 3D Printing.
I think it would be a good idea to lock this forum and re-direct to the new forum.

[PenskeGuy]

Original forum all the way. No question. Why reinvent the wheel? Just because? Branding has to be considered, here. Spreading product stuff all over the place just isn't the way to go. One domain, many parts within the same domain. Many are unaware of this but there is also a full Wiki over there. We could all be contributing to a living manual that is directly connected to the other two sections.

One significant point to carefully consider is all of the existing links all over that point to the original forum. Move to yet another sound alike and all of that presence stays as it is now, lost. People hear about KISSlicer, hit a link and get: Temporarily closed for maintenance for how many months?

Google Groups is relatively unworkable for anything but a gabfest. Parts of it don't even work correctly. Hosting a support forum here is bush league. No branding, no identity—other than Google and definitely no link juice that should be going to kisslicer.com. In fact, unless there's a nofollow set, kisslicer.com is bleeding link juice to Google. It's served its purpose. Time to get back to business.

The original forum was just fine for a LONG, LONG time. It worked, had decent design, flexible structure, good organization, robust search and near zero spam. When you turn your back on the spammers, however, they'll take every advantage they can. Actually, no one having a pulse ever posted spam there during the death throes. It was bots and they are easy to deal with. I host a forum for an artist organization. Zero spam. It ain't rocket surgery. I really don't understand why we're discussing this at this late date. We've asked multiple times. What's the Big Problem and why are we not back there yesterday?

As for the third option, yes, it was a nice gesture, and I don't mean any disrespect or to trivialize the work that went into it, but it was a bit premature to go ahead and set something up before it was decided to do so. And it's already been found and spammed. I think it was a year before any showed up on the original forum. Those that did were few and far between. But, with no one taking care of things, the spam grew and spread like a virus on a moist, warm day. The deputy admin didn't want to lift a finger to do anything, even when asked.

   Jonathan wrote in another thread:

• regarding the forum

• I am fine with another location, but there were some really good posts / pictures, etc. on the old forum.
• I can probably get a backup of the old database.  I know nothing about this...is porting to a new forum even possible?

There is a wealth of pertinent data on the original forum. Some of it took a fair bit of work to compile. Scrapping it all is a waste. As I said in an earlier thread, the existing database can be cleaned of all of the crap using some well crafted MySQL queries. There is no need to "port it to another forum". Clean the one you have.

We have knowledgeable people who want to help. We helped as much as we could, having only limited rights, for months on our own. If it's a security concern that we're going to take over the server or steal code, that can be handled by file system permissions. Hire good, honest people, and there is no problem; even if there aren't any permissions set up.

I'll tell ya straight out (as if I haven't been up to now)  :-)  there have been more than a few times where I wanted to point someone to KISSlicer and didn't, because of the presentation as it stands.

All of this is fueled by our connection to the software. We helped build it. We helped teach others how to use it. We promoted it. Do we have any claim to it? No. But it's ours, just the same, because we are part of it and it is part of us. We naturally want the best for it. Let's give it what it needs and deserves.

[Matt Hoover]

Original forum makes the most sense to me, anything but google would be nice.

Personal request, forum that can interface with Tapatalk apps.  This would make a huge impact on the user ease of use.  Tapatalk makes contributing to forums so convienent for android ios users and would be worth the time IMO.    https://tapatalk.com/

[y.ult...@gmail.com]

I vote for something like this http://www.kisslicertalk.com (with good protection against spam) with Tapatalk and if possible a sub forum in French ^^

[Anthony ALLERA]

Google groups, definitevely not.
I started use it with the kisslicer refugee group, but naviguate and search posts isn't easy.

Back to the old one is a great idea. Many plugins exist to stop spams. First: create an account with a recaptcha =>90% of bots won't pass.

Moreover, create sub-categories will be possible: cubeitmod for cubex, and for other printers, allowing people to easely share settings and discuss of hardware.
No sub-categories for languages: many informations will be lost. Or just for general help. (Hu, I'm french but I think only one language is better ^^ )

[Andrew Diehl]

As someone who sells printers bundled with KISSlicer, sending people to a refugee camp for their software is... bad. 

I'd like everything hosted at the original site like it was. 

[garr...@gmail.com]

An RSS feed from any forum would be very nice.

[frozen...@yahoo.com]

The original forum on the KS site would also be much more professional from a business stand point, instead of having it hosted somewhere else.

[PenskeGuy]

The original forum was running on Simple Machines. It has a number of levels of spam control built in. Only the most basic were turned on, IIRC. We would have ramped that up if we had admin rights and stopped the attack in its tracks before it went anywhere at all. As for language sub-forums, not to dis other languages by any means, Google Translate can be applied to all pages, thereby preventing the dispersion of content to many areas that may not be found by all visitors. All of our websites and blogs have it embedded within the pages and it works great.

[Bob Crockford]

Back to the old one if possible!

[Cordvision]

Anything but google groups :)

[Plexus Brett]

I haven't done anything to www.kisslicertalk.com in the last while because there was no need. however the intention would be ensure good spam protection, multiple moderators, a couple full admins and tapatalk. 

Maybe impose a deadline: If the kisslicer.com forum is not up and running by <enter date> then lets start using kisslicertalk.com

... or ... not.

I'm ok with the original forum. its just scary to consider if "something" happens that we'll be in the dark again. someone has to own the domain name of course. but with kisslicertalk.com I can give those that it makes sense to admin access and access to the server. this way if "something" were to happen to me, other people would be able to carry on with the forum, or in a worst case scenario, grab the database and re-use it elsewhere.

I am not monitoring this forum (google) that often. sorry but the google groups approach causes me headaches. :) but if you want to get in touch with me once a decision is made etc please reach me at ple...@usabilitynow.ca

plexus

[Bart]

Maybe impose a deadline: If the kisslicer.com forum is not up and running by <enter date> then lets start using kisslicertalk.com

Totally agree with that!

So, lets say: 42 days after today: so 10 November 2014, we make it active, and lock this one. We can keep this one open for a while, to copy some stuff and shut it down.

Bart

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[PenskeGuy]

I'll agree with this. I think it is a far better business decision to have all of KS on one domain, for many reasons, BUT it's none of my business, is it?

Why do I care? Well, I sometimes wonder that, myself... I really do. I rely upon KS and I want it to succeed. I stuck with it while we were left adrift. Now that development has resumed, it's become even better; and I do appreciate that so very much. Still, it pains me to not be referring users to KS because of the unprofessionalism presented. This GG served its purpose when we had no other alternative, after holding down the fort—trying to keep things going for months—without help.

If the original forum is not an option... again, not that it's really any of my business... I'd like to be afforded the courtesy of a sound reason why. Silence and just ignoring us and the offers of help really isn't appreciated, especially after all that we've been through and done. Even a PM or email on what happened and why things now aren't moving in the direction that so many have indicated that they want would do wonders. I care... or should I just stop caring?

[lonesock (Jonathan)]

Oops, sorry!  I have been reading this thread occasionally, but not really focusing on it.  I did not mean to be ignoring everyone!  So, I will weigh in here:

• I have 0 knowledge about running a forum (yes, it shows!).
• I would love to move to a dedicated forum...as much as Google does some things really well, Groups isn't on my list of top 42 favorite forum options.
• My first preference is to go back to the original forum.
• the KISSlicerTalk.com forum is a great idea too, and if I can't get the original KS forum back up I would be totally comfortable going this route.
• No matter which forum we move to, we will need multiple moderators.
• If we go back to the old forum I am happy to give admin rights to some of you!  Note that I feel bad asking for volunteers, but really do appreciate the offers!
• Sub-forums for specific printers / firmware / whatever is fine also.
• The old forum was over-run with SPAM and the forum page (and database?) was locked.  I think I need to petition the hosting sysadmins about restoring it.  I am further guessing that I will need to purge the SPAM before they let it back up, and I have no idea how to do that!!  THIS IS MY CRY FOR HELP!  
• I also have no idea how to try to import the info from *this* forum into whichever we decide to use.  Are there tools for that?
• Btw, I absolutely love the name "KISSlicer Refuge Camp".  Even for the official forum, I am tempted to keep the name.  [8^)

So, the upshot is, I would like to go back if it is feasible, but I will need help!  Can you guys advise me on what I should do next?

thanks,

Jonathan

P.S.  I was out of touch for the last week or so because it was my wife's and my 8th anniversary.  [8^)

[cakeller98]

I don't know the old forum actually, but I find forums great for tips and techniques, and feature discussions, but I really hate them for bug tickets.

a software I use that has, what I think works well, as a forum is 3d-coat.  They use the forum a lot the same way you do, Jonathan, but when the bug reports, and feature requests became unwieldy and the patrons got snippy due to feeling ignored, or just simply not getting the attention they wanted... they switched to using manits for bug reports, and essentially tabooing bug reports on the forums.

I think it'd be great to see a forum formatted similar to how 3D coat is done, along with using a real bug-tracking solution...

Maybe that's not be feasible at this point... maybe it won't ever.  But have a look at 3D-Coat's forums, and see what you think.

It appears Mantis is open-source, so other than the hosting of it, maybe it's free?  I'm not an expert, just aware of the existence of, and somewhat it's usefulness.

**HAPPY ANNIVERSARY! **

[Tim Hester]

I agree completely with @PenskeGuy

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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From: PenskeGuy <bj-g...@imperialearth.com>

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ReplyTo: kisslicer-r...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [kisslicer-refugee-camp] Re: New forum, Restore the old one, or Keep this one?

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[PenskeGuy]

Hi Jonathan. Thanks for responding. I'll try to address these in-line if possible, but sometimes this stupid thing just has a mind of its own.

On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19:11 PM UTC-7, lonesock (Jonathan) wrote:

Oops, sorry!  I have been reading this thread occasionally, but not really focusing on it.  I did not mean to be ignoring everyone!  So, I will weigh in here:

• I have 0 knowledge about running a forum (yes, it shows!).

I run two of them, though not on Simple Machines. Looked at it but went with one that integrates into our WordPress Multisite installs on our dedicated Web server. So, familiar with massaging the databases when things require it. Also run two Listserves and a YahooGroup.

• I would love to move to a dedicated forum...as much as Google does some things really well, Groups isn't on my list of top 42 favorite forum options.
• My first preference is to go back to the original forum.

Good. That has been the preference of most of the voters.

• the KISSlicerTalk.com forum is a great idea too, and if I can't get the original KS forum back up I would be totally comfortable going this route.

Always an option if things don't work out.

• No matter which forum we move to, we will need multiple moderators.
• If we go back to the old forum I am happy to give admin rights to some of you!  Note that I feel bad asking for volunteers, but really do appreciate the offers!

Don't feel that way. We wouldn't volunteer if we didn't mean it.

• Sub-forums for specific printers / firmware / whatever is fine also.

Yes. Compartmentalization is a good thing, if people take the time to think about where to start a thread. If not, their thread should be moved to where it is appropriate.

• The old forum was over-run with SPAM and the forum page (and database?) was locked.  I think I need to petition the hosting sysadmins about restoring it.  I am further guessing that I will need to purge the SPAM before they let it back up, and I have no idea how to do that!!  THIS IS MY CRY FOR HELP!  

Is the database running on MySQL? If so, and your provider has PHPMyAdmin, I can run queries on it to purge the crap; at least the huge majority, and then cull from there if the granularity isn't fine enough to weed it all out without nuking the good stuff. It is important to keep as much of what had been built up as possible, because there are some gems to be saved. Another way to go would be to get the database file and import it into our MySQL server, nuke the crap and export for re-install on your server.

• I also have no idea how to try to import the info from *this* forum into whichever we decide to use.  Are there tools for that?

Bart would know better than I.

• Btw, I absolutely love the name "KISSlicer Refuge Camp".  Even for the official forum, I am tempted to keep the name.  [8^)

Ummm... no. Won't translate to new users. While people may be grateful for assistance, no one likes to be a refugee for long. Again, not a good connotation for projecting professionalism.
 

So, the upshot is, I would like to go back if it is feasible, but I will need help!  Can you guys advise me on what I should do next?

Just provide answers to the above for a start.

P.S.  I was out of touch for the last week or so because it was my wife's and my 8th anniversary.  [8^)

Congratulations!

Well, I got to here with editing, so I'll cut my losses and post. :)

[max72]

It looks like restoring the original forum is feasible!! good thing :-)

I will gladly help if needed.

About spam, I'm not an expert (ok, and not the only nonexpert here..), but if I remember correctly the vast majority of spam comes form a very limited number of posters, so if we can filter the members by number of posts I guess we'll be back in business in no time.

Massimo

[funBart]

• I also have no idea how to try to import the info from *this* forum into whichever we decide to use.  Are there tools for that?

Bart would know better than I. 

Not really but after some searching: it seems there is no possibility to export Google Groups. The only thing I found are the instructions of someone who has made a Google group scraper, maybe it's possible:

 http://saturnboy.com/2010/03/scraping-google-groups/

I have no idea how to get that script running.

Bart

[PenskeGuy]

The majority comes from bots. Yes, usernames can be put into a deny list, but that's a never-ending job. Best way to fight them is to employ measures that prevent their registering/posting in the first place. Once one gets in, as users of the original forum up to the end will attest, variations are spawned and the whole thing becomes a fission reaction chain.

Measures to identify bots only go so far, but they're the first defense. There are also humans employed for pennies per day to fill out forms and gain access. There are measures to limit this as well, but it's more of a hands-on task. Not totally, but it can't be an automated thing; because you are dealing with a bot that has a pulse. They can figure out more complex blocks.

Basic things that bots look for in order to not only post crap but gain access to the interface itself is to not have an admin account username that is either easy to guess or determine by a dictionary attack. Then have strong, and I mean STRONG passwords that are not pronounceable. The best approach is that the username and password are both gibberish, as far as words are concerned. IOW, the username is a strong password in and of itself. Combined with a strong password, you have two passwords in series.

User accounts that have no rights, except for reading/posting, don't necessarily have to be as strong but it does help keep the accounts from being compromised.

IIRC, there were five or so levels of spam prevention available in Simple Machines forums, and I believe that there are plugins for more. Only one or two were turned on. Problem is, the more measures that are turned on, the more complaints you have to suffer through, because some people are essentially lazy and don't want to have to jump through the hoops, even temporary ones, to keep the forum clean. The one that generated the most complaints was having to perform an extra action for the first five posts. Upon reaching that goal, they could post without challenge. The goal was settable and raising it would be better for prevention, but worse for complaining. IMO, a small price to pay for having a forum that is free of spam/scam and serve its intended purpose.

As in all things, a happy medium needs to be found. Too bad that a bunch of get rich quick jerks spoil everything for the rest of us and create a lot of otherwise needless extra work. Stopping them in their tracks does have a certain satisfying appeal, however.

[PenskeGuy]

I've downloaded the archive but, according to the last post in the comments, it won't work because Google changed the interface back in June of 2013. Not a surprise.

OK. An update to this. (5 hours later) I found a number of approaches; all convoluted and most made obsolete by Google's preemptive changes. Much the same with many, if not all, of their apps, it's like Hotel California: You can check out but you can never leave. So, the upshot is, the longer we procrastinate, the worse it gets. 42 days from two days ago is too long to wait.

[Frank Fisk]

"So when the owner of the place it's hosted went nuts, got a midlife crisis, or chooses to live in a better world, we are able to host the site on another place"  

Having experienced this first hand the ability to host the site on another place is most sensible.  The burden shouldn't have to be shouldered by one individual.

[Dianne Fontayne]

Ok I think the final decision needs to be with Johnathan and Bart as without either of them we would have nothing, it seems obvious that there needs to be an admin team to support where ever we end up. I will follow where ever that may be. I just hope/ask that it is a team that works together so kiss slicer can continue to evolve and grow & that if people need time away/off when life gets in the way that there is a team to support that. Viva Kissa'larution ! 

[Dianne Fontayne]

just to clarify I meant who ever is most involved in physically doing this forum and the program its self if that is more people than bart/johnathan that's what i was meaning. : ]

[funBart]

So, I emailed Brett (Plexuss):

I don't see any activity to get the old forum running, so I assume that's not the way to go. 16 days to decide according my self chosen deadline... 

As the development of Kisslicer is still progressing, although slow, I think that migrating to a new -more structured- forum still is a good idea, to be able to make at least subsections.

Are you still willing to do this and have an active role? I think it's time to set it up and invite moderates to do the job. Same for copying the most important stuff.

I hope you take the lead for this, as I have spend between 200-300 hours on the Refugee Camp the last year and would like to get 'off the hook' if I phrase it alright. After you are ready with setting up / got new moderators, I close the KRC for new topics/users. It's will still be accessible though. I change the welcome message as well to direct to the Kisslicertalk forum.

Bart

and he responded:

Hi Bart. The forum is already set up and ready to go. people can even open accounts and start using it. there are a few things I need to install like tapatalk. but I’ll get around to it. its stuff that can be done even when the board is in use. perhaps you can figure out who the mods should be and let me know and I will set everyone up with the right permissions etc. and someone else (you? jonathan?) to also have admin access. for admin access its so that there is another person that can go into the control panel and affect the site. but i own the site and reserve the rights around that. just want to make that clear so we are all on the same page. as far as I am concerned the database for the forum is owned by the people that contribute to it. so we can have provisions in place so that the admins can grab copies of the database. there are auto backup plugins and so you just FTP in and grab the latest backup file.
Brett

All fine to me, so: who is willing to be a admin / moderator for the new forum? When done with a couple of admins: to my experience there is always one person active for a period of time, and when not being able for a while, somebody else must be willing to do the job.
I think about 4 active admin's would be great.

Active people I'm aware of (don't want to exclude anybody BTW, everybody who is willing to do the job is welcome...)
Plexuss (off course ;-)
PenskeGuy
Peter Gregory,
Giovanni Vallaro,
Max72 (Massimo di Marchi)
Davide Ardizzoia
Frozen Rabbit (steve)

Toranod
Cakeller98 (Chris)
Isaac Thompson

Rick Zehr

A. Elias
probably miss someone obvious ;-)

Bart

[3D_er]

i can also help if need be, i have modded elsewhere for years, but i can contribute time as needed as well.  this is a great project and  want to see it grow.

Ken

[Davide Ardizzoia]

I am too busy to be full time admin.
But would love to be a "counselor"  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consigliere)

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

[PenskeGuy]

Well, I guess I'm not surprised.... Still, no offense to Plexuss, this is NOT the way to go. Reinventing the wheel over and over just leaves a bunch of perfectly good wheels lying on their sides all over the place. There is MUCH good and pertinent information contained in the original forum. Are we just going to chuck it all and TRY to remember what it all was? Answer the same questions all over again? (Not that we haven't done so here already, at least in part.) If Jonathan doesn't care... well so be it. Why should we? He said he'd get things rolling to get the original forum up an running, with our help. We have reiterated that we are willing, and able, to get it done. I guess that was an empty promise and it fell right in the toilet. Sorry, but that's the way it seems. I'm about done.

[Davide Ardizzoia]

IMHO anything is better than google groups.
BUT having everything at just one place (kisslicer.com) is WAY better.
Can't stand this place anymore.

If Jonathan has no time to administer the forum WHY the access keys can't be given to Plexxus, Bart, or anybody qualified to do it ?!?

I have no experience on SQL cleanup (on forum databases), but I believe there are quite a good amount of skilled people here around.

Having a excellent tool with a miserable user gathering place like this is quite disappointing...

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

[lonesock (Jonathan)]

Hey, everybody.

I still want to get the forum back up on kisslicer.com.  If I can do it by the (arbitrary but generous) deadline, great!  If not, I am willing to abide by the group's decision and have it hosted elsewhere.  I have been getting some nice development time on KISSlicer, which is great, so I will be stealing some of that to work on the forum this coming week.

thanks,

Jonathan

[garr...@gmail.com]

Please forgive me but I wonder why there is no KISSlicer section on forums.reprap.org? Slic3r and Skeinforge have a section so it feels logical KISSlicer should have a spot there too. It would surely add good exposure to KISSlicer. I'm looking forward to a lot more good things from KISSlicer and that will depend largely on how good of a living Jonathan could derive from selling his software. More eyes on KISSlicer = more potential sales.  LONG LIVE JONATHAN!  LONG LIVE KISSLICER! :-) 

[3D_er]

i'm still for kisslicer.com domain forum as well, but will follow the masses and support whatever decision.

ken

[Davide Ardizzoia]

Hello Jonathan,
I believe that your talent is way more needed into KS polishing than forum housekeeping...and I bet my left arm that plenty of people here will be more than happy to take the responsibility to cleanup your forum.

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

[funBart]

@ Ken (3D er): thanks for your offer! Nice to have new enthusiastic members ;-)

@ Davide: That describes my position too: I think I want to be a Consigliere for a while as well ;-)

@ PenskeGuy: same here: but Jonathan has to give a start to revive the old forum, and obviously that's not his primary drive ;-) It's more than a year now after outspammed the old forum, and despite offers / questions, there is no action to open the old forum / let it clean by us. We don't want to be another year on this crappy forum.

@ Jonathan: Yes, I know you respond well to pressure ;-) Act now, or it all fade away, away, away, aThat said: Stop playing with Kisslicer! We are happy how it's now! Release the official one, revive the old forum, and after that: maybe, just maybe, we allow you to implement some new features! 

@ GarryB123: that was an option as well a year ago (when this forum was needed). I can imagine it makes sense at one hand, but, Kisslicer has a wider scope than Reprap-users, and, more important probably, isn't member of the nice community of open source people. Turn open-source first Jonathan!

Bart

 

[max72]

I agree coming back to kisslicer would be the best.

No one can survive a full time commitment to forum moderation, but I'm sure if there were enough moderators we would be able to distribute the load.

I would gladly volunteer.

I find it very difficult to use this google forum... so anything else is better for sure.

Massimo

[funBart]

Thanks, that makes about four moderators at least. About the decision date: I know it's arbitrary, but it's about a year ago I made this forum. As everyone doubted that Jonathan ever would return, I decided to make a forum the easiest way I could find, so we could at least find each other. 

Looking back, it would have been better to make a real forum and host it myself. But I think that we have to decide now the same way: on the information we have today, as Jonathan wasn't able to revive the old forum the last half year, and I don't got the impression it will be on line on a short notice.

Also: I think it's very rude to keep Brett (Plexuss) hanging, just because we all think it would be the best to go back to the old forum, but forced to wait until 'something magical' will happen. It will not.

It's simply not a good idea anymore to go back to the old forum, as it's obviously not a priority for Jonathan. He has pointed out as well that he hasn't got enough expertise to revive and clean-up the old forum. 

I think it was very generous and -even more- great of Brett he was willing to wait after he took the initiative to make a new forum. In his place, I would already have taken it down with a big notice: Screw You Guys!

So, I would suggest we will start to think about the layout / sections etc. of the Kisslicertalk forum with Brett, and have some moderators added.

There are three for now, as I'm aware off:

Brett (plexuss)

Massimo (max72)

Ken (3D_er)

You can add Jonathan too, but only after he has finished his official release ;-) Maybe Cheryl (mrs. Lonesock) is willing to be a mod too again. 

Bart

[Davide Ardizzoia]

Why can't we move Plexuss work to Kisslicer.com domain ?
We wouldn't throw away Brett work and we could have content to import into his forum skeleton.
I believe that having forum/user community hosted on same domain will compensate with this period of exile and build a bit more confidence onto newcomers.

My .002 E  :-)

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

Il giorno mercoledì 29 ottobre 2014 19:55:45 UTC+1, funBart ha scritto:

Thanks, that makes about four moderators at least. About the decision date: I know it's arbitrary, but it's about a year ago I made this forum. As everyone doubted that Jonathan ever would return, I decided to make a forum the easiest way I could find, so we could at least find each other. 

Looking back, it would have been better to make a real forum and host it myself. But I think that we have to decide now the same way: on the information we have today, as Jonathan wasn't able to revive the old forum the last half year, and I don't got the impression it will be on line on a short notice.

Also: I think it's very rude to keep Brett (Plexuss) hanging, just because we all think it would be the best to go back to the old forum, but forced to wait until 'something magical' will happen. It will not.

It's simply not a good idea anymore to go back to the old forum, as it's obviously not a priority for Jonathan. He has pointed out as well that he hasn't got enough expertise to revive and clean-up the old forum. 

I think it was very generous and -even more- great of Brett he was willing to wait after he took the initiative to make a new forum. In his place, I would already have taken it down with a big notice: Screw You Guys!

So, I would suggest we will start to think about the layout / sections etc. of the Kisslicertalk forum with Brett, and have some moderators added.

There are four for now, as I'm aware off:

Brett (plexuss)

Massimo (max72)

Ken (3D_er)

Bart (funBart)

We can add Jonathan too, but only after he has finished his official release ;-) Maybe Cheryl (mrs. Lonesock) is willing to be a mod too again. 

Bart

On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:06:28 UTC+1, max72 wrote:

[Isaac Thompson]

Agreed, this seems like the ideal course of action, and i'm happy to be a moderator. what does it require for us to start work on kisslicer.com? i guess we need johnathan to hand over the keys?

[PenskeGuy]

OK, I'd like to add a little reality check, here.

On Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:55:45 AM UTC-7, funBart wrote:

But I think that we have to decide now the same way: on the information we have today, as Jonathan wasn't able to revive the old forum the last half year, and I don't got the impression it will be on line on a short notice.

Yeah, unfortunately, it seems that we are the only ones concerned for the Public Relations and Customer Support aspects of KISSlicer. Further, to have called the drop-dead date "arbitrary", when it was set at 42 days, after waiting and pleading all these months, is a bit on the rude side itself.
 

Also: I think it's very rude to keep Brett (Plexuss) hanging, just because we all think it would be the best to go back to the old forum, but forced to wait until 'something magical' will happen. It will not.

I think it was very generous and -even more- great of Brett he was willing to wait after he took the initiative to make a new forum. In his place, I would already have taken it down with a big notice: Screw You Guys!

To be clear about this, (no offense to Brett in any way, shape, manner or inclination) he went ahead on his own volition and when it was done sprung it on us, without discussion with anyone that I know of as to whether it would be OK/appropriate to do it. If we had asked and then not responded, that would be rude. The clear indication is and has been that return is preferred on many levels, so calling our response "rude" just rubs the wrong way..
 

It's simply not a good idea anymore to go back to the old forum, as it's obviously not a priority for Jonathan. He has pointed out as well that he hasn't got enough expertise to revive and clean-up the old forum.

All he has to do is get the database file or grant access to it. If that is too much to ask then, yes, it's not a good idea anymore, because if he doesn't care... why should we? But, then, has it been 42 days? No. As of this writing, it's 12 days to go. After that, then begin grousing and making changes. You set a deadline, you stick to it.

Yes, we could reinvent the wheel on kisslicer.com/forum/, as that would be a more cohesive location than a totally separate but similarly named one BUT what I am not aligned with is just throwing away all of the knowledgebase that exists within all of those months (years?) of users' experience. Some of that stuff I wish I could get to. Sure, much of what is there is now outdated because the software has progressed. I suppose if we wait much longer, it will all be useless information and the point becomes moot. Color me dismayed.

[Davide Ardizzoia]

It's quite interesting to see, in those days, when "open-source" hype is rampant,  KS users moving along to get better (closed source) product, interface, documentation and forum.

-When original foum got infested, Funbart set up this one, bringing back a loto of content (kudos!).
-I wrote a new manual since the old one was vastly outdated and missing several explanations.
-Funbart and Chris set up a wonderful "new feature" polling system.
-Plexxus laid down a new forum.
-Penske, Frozen,  and several others are pinpointing and sharing pearls of wisdom about KS use.

I don't care about my tools being closed or open.
I just want effective tools, and I am promoting KS along my customers, pushing them to buy PRO licenses: I hope to have been helping this way to pay Jonathan bills and I am doing it quite in a selfish way (= more business for Jonathan, more reason to polish KS, better tools for me).

IMHO path is quite clear: move away from this buggy motel back to a cleaner home.
Give keys of the main door to the few reputable guys around here.
Jonathan will  be relieved from the burden, newcomers will get a reassuring picture, and we all will get better way of user-knowledge-sharing.

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

[Peter Gregory]

Well said, Davide.
KISSlicer has transformed my Cubex Trio from a $3000 mistake to a usable reliable 3D printer.
I too hope the original forum gets opened up to a few moderators, cleaned up and open for business.
When I first came to KISSlicer Refugee Camp, the discussions and insights from the original forum were very helpful getting me to understand why my Cubex does what it does.
I am very familiar with databases and would be happy to help in the clean up.
If we move to another forum, I'd be happy to help to transfer messages from the old forum when allowed.
The bottom line is we have a community of people devoted to KISSlicer because it helps us and we want to support it.

[funBart]

On Thursday, 30 October 2014 08:32:57 UTC+1, Davide Ardizzoia wrote:

IMHO path is quite clear: move away from this buggy motel back to a cleaner home.
Give keys of the main door to the few reputable guys around here.
Jonathan will  be relieved from the burden, newcomers will get a reassuring picture, and we all will get better way of user-knowledge-sharing.

Yes, but the point I tried to make was: We asked repeatedly for the keys of he forum of Kisslicer.com, but never received them, that way we won't be able to open the door to start cleaning up. 

As I don't expect we get access in the near future, I would like to focus on Kisslicertalk. I would suggest again before 10 November, so we know what we can do on that date. As stated in the first post: it's not a deadline to start deciding, but to migrate the forum.

As I understood, it's not only the database to clean up for Kisslicer.com, but to make the hosting-company to release the 'shut-down' of the forum domain as well.

As for Brett's initiative: we maybe didn't ask for it, but with only a few active members, we should be thankful and supportive for those who take initiative. But, as I seem the only one at this point, I suppose others still have faith that Kisslicer.com will be revived soon. 

Bart 

 

[Davide Ardizzoia]

Of course Jonathan can do whatever he wants with his forum.
Yet, the "official" forum is offline and it has been for months.

Can't believe Jonathan can say no to this golden opportunity to improve his product presentation and support.

I can understand that it is not completely kosher to have an "official" product community forum whose admins are working for free... but ANYTHING is better than this.

...Jonathan ?

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

[PenskeGuy]

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:32:11 PM UTC-7, funBart wrote:

Yes, but the point I tried to make was: We asked repeatedly for the keys of he forum of Kisslicer.com, but never received them, that way we won't be able to open the door to start cleaning up.

We're asking again; this time with conviction. If the response is the same, then we know. Stop caring and make our lives better; 'cuz this interface just sucks. We give him the full opportunity to respond and, if that does not happen, then we pull the trigger.

 

As I understood, it's not only the database to clean up for Kisslicer.com, but to make the hosting-company to release the 'shut-down' of the forum domain as well.

Once the ISP sees that the database has been cleaned and proper spam measures instituted and more than two admins that are willing to keep it clean, they won't have a problem. It isn't as if we have to twist their arm. They just don't want to have unnecessary bandwidth, CPU cycles and disk space going to a bunch of crap that, from their point of view, no one cared enough to take are of... BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T. We did what we could but, without having admin rights, and the second admin that had them refused to do anything because it was "too difficult", it got run away with by get rich quick scammers.

 

As for Brett's initiative: we maybe didn't ask for it, but with only a few active members, we should be thankful and supportive for those who take initiative.

Yes, we should, but, to call our hesitance to adopt re-inventing the wheel "rude" just rubbed the wrong way. Heck, I offered to host it a long number of months ago. Didn't go ahead on my own, because it didn't get any traction beyond a few coments, so just let it drop for perhaps a later date.

[Bart]

On Oct 31, 2014 3:51 AM, "PenskeGuy" <bj-g...@imperialearth.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, we should, but, to call our hesitance to adopt re-inventing the wheel "rude" just rubbed the wrong way. Heck, I offered to host it a long number of months ago. Didn't go ahead on my own, because it didn't get any traction beyond a few coments, so just let it drop for perhaps a later date.

Sorry BJ, Now I understand your point. I never realized you were offering to host the site yourself a while ago, but had reasons not to yet.
It seems I have used the word 'rude' not in the right context. Apparently it has a much stronger connotation than I'm aware off. Sorry about that.
I'm a little snarky probably because of the effort/response ratio of Jonathan.
But it seems we got about the same idea how it ought to be. I hope it will turn out to all the members satisfaction.
All we need at the end is the ISP name / login / phone number and the admin login for the forum.
Bart

[PenskeGuy]

On Friday, October 31, 2014 12:31:30 PM UTC-7, funBart wrote:

Sorry BJ, Now I understand your point. I never realized you were offering to host the site yourself a while ago, but had reasons not to yet.
It seems I have used the word 'rude' not in the right context. Apparently it has a much stronger connotation than I'm aware off. Sorry about that.

No problem. We can always talk. :-) There is, however, a possible application of "rude" to be more pertinently placed elsewhere.
 

I'm a little snarky probably because of the effort/response ratio of Jonathan.

I hear that!
 

But it seems we got about the same idea how it ought to be. I hope it will turn out to all the members satisfaction.

Yes. Me, too.
 

All we need at the end is the ISP name / login / phone number and the admin login for the forum.

When I tried to contact the ISP/NOC: 1&1 where the domain is hosted, so that we could keep things running, I got a response that said that they didn't host the domain; even though that's what whois reports. Not getting anyone there to assist, I gave up.

[PenskeGuy]

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 10:37:35 AM UTC-7, garr...@gmail.com wrote:

Please forgive me but I wonder why there is no KISSlicer section on forums.reprap.org? Slic3r and Skeinforge have a section so it feels logical KISSlicer should have a spot there too. It would surely add good exposure to KISSlicer.

So, start one or request that the admins do so.

[frozen...@yahoo.com]

I'm just not getting this. We want the original forum, on Kisslicer.com. There are people very willing to clean and admin, so why is this almost like pulling teeth?

[Tim Hester]

1&1 is the domain registrar, the domain is hosted at HostDime.com in Orlando FL.

Geolocation data from IP2Location (Product: DB4 updated on 10/31/2014)

IP Address	Country	Region	City	ISP
72.29.86.203	United States	Florida	Orlando	Hostdime.com Inc.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 11:52 PM, PenskeGuy <bj-g...@imperialearth.com> wrote:

On Friday, October 31, 2014 12:31:30 PM UTC-7, funBart wrote:

Sorry BJ, Now I understand your point. I never realized you were offering to host the site yourself a while ago, but had reasons not to yet.
It seems I have used the word 'rude' not in the right context. Apparently it has a much stronger connotation than I'm aware off. Sorry about that.

No problem. We can always talk. :-)
 

I'm a little snarky probably because of the effort/response ratio of Jonathan.

I hear that!
 

But it seems we got about the same idea how it ought to be. I hope it will turn out to all the members satisfaction.

Yes. Me, too.
 

All we need at the end is the ISP name / login / phone number and the admin login for the forum.

When I tried to contact the ISP/NOC: 1&1 where the domain is hosted, so that we could keep things running, I got a response that said that they didn't host the domain; even though that's what whois reports. Not getting anyone there to assist, I gave up.

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[GeckospotNixie]

Hey you all need to light up some!

First of all you are all making an assumption that the lack of action is a lack of caring and or want.
I'm sure that Jonathan has a full time job other than KisSlicer.
And we all know how it is when we get small slices of time to devote to our projects.
We like to do things we enjoy on the project not the things that are going to be a pain in the ass.

Over the last year a lot of thinking have happened Jonathan was on sabbatical from KisSlicer and then he returned and ever one asked and pushed him for updates and improvements. He has done an outstanding JOB!

So I think that everyone needs to light up on the Jonathan does care line!

This post is not to upset anyone so if it has sorry that is not the intention of the post.
It is just a removed view of someone that has been lurking in the shadows for the last year.

Tom

[PenskeGuy]

And now we get a lecture.

[plexuss]

Kisslicertalk.com is now active and anyone that wants to make an account and start posting feel free to do so. there is no need to wait for a real forum to come about. and if there is an "official" forum, then great. the more the merrier. if kisslicertalk.com doesn't appeal to anyone that will be reflected in the lack of posting and so be it. enjoy.

I have implemented recaptcha to keep spam down. I also deleted some spam and spam users. if the forum becomes active I will add people as mods to help with spam etc. we'll talk about how that will happen (nomination, obvious people, etc). also i would want to give a couple people the "keys" to the forum so that it's not tied to one person (me). this may be tricky but I am sure we can figure it out.

It doesn't really matter where the forum lives. jon can have his own forum or whatever he feels is appropriate from an "official" standpoint. but we need a more effective way to share and communicate as end users. having a discrete forum is not a bad thing. anything that helps people and is useful is a good thing. I don't think there is any need to argue about it really. 

When I started printrbottalk.com there was some grumbling about it not being "official". in the end, PB themselves put customer support as a low priority especially in the beginning. this makes sense because with limited resources you want to put more effort on fulfilling orders in a timely fashion with a quality product. eventually PB saw that PBtalk was the go-to place for end user help. we had discussions about how to fold PBtalk into PB officially but I think in the end PB realized that it was better to have other people do the work and really PBtalk was only helping PB be successful. I pretty much expect the same thing will happen with kisslicertalk.com if people start using. KISStalk!

[Davide Ardizzoia]

IMHO,
all it takes now it's Jonathan to change the link on his webpage(s): newcomers will get an "official" entry point, yet Plexxus will be able to volunteer and mantain site (with the help of willing people around here).

Plexxus: virtual beer paid!

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia

[Bart]

Thanks Brett. 

I suggest we copy the 'alive topics' to Kisslicertalk. In the meanwhile, I lock the topics at the Refugee Camp and change the welcome message to point everyone to the new site as well.

I was planning to open the Google Group after that as well, so there is no need to become a member to view the content.

Brett, are you Canadian or American?

Bart

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[Isaac Thompson]

thanks brett

to be fair, Jonathan still has 3 days before the arbitrary deadline which was set up. 

that being said, i'll be creating a username on the new site come nov 11 if at that time we haven't been given a way to restore the old forum. 

[funBart]

It wasn't meant to be a deadline for Jonathan, but for us ;-)

[PenskeGuy]

On Friday, November 7, 2014 3:09:30 PM UTC-8, funBart wrote:

It wasn't meant to be a deadline for Jonathan, but for us ;-)

AND it shouldn't be that way. Seemed the me that it was (should have been) a deadline for both. Color me NOT HAPPY at this result. Instead, very dismayed. Not that the new forum is up and running, but that there is NO positive response from Jonathan... after all of the offers of doing ALL of the WORK. Same ol', same ol'. Silence. Total ignorance of offers and questions of what is happening. Just like before. Disappointed doesn't even scratch the surface... and I'm being kind right now.

[toranarod]

Programmer and total geniuses, nice guy and all.  I think I said this before .  What you call good etiquette doesn't make any more sense to him than his computer algorithms do to you. My opinion is just let him do what he does best, write awesome software. 

[Plexus Brett]

I have no emotional investment in this. I just like using Kisslicer and there is a need for a forum for users like me to discuss topics. Its easy for me to set up a forum and get it up and running in a secure and organized way drawing from my experience with printrbottalk.com. Its there to use and be helpful and no other reason. Jonathan does a great job with his software. he owes us nothing. he has no responsibility to anything he doesn't care to take responsibility for. it makes sense that a forum or whatever is not a priority for him - it wouldn't be for me if I was a dev. my priority would be the software. it seems to me that Jonathan is most engaged when he is solving problems and bugs in his software. thats what makes him a good dev and makes Kisslicer so good.

Just go use the forum. if anyone else wants to put up a forum then deal with it at that time. Jon can put up an official forum at some point if he wants to and the two will work together in a positive way.

[Mikk Kiilaspää]

I wouldn't recommend just copying over, but rather create the same topics and link them to the threads here in the opening post. Any continuation of the threads will continue in the new forum of course.

On Friday, November 7, 2014 10:07:31 PM UTC+2, funBart wrote:

Thanks Brett. 

I suggest we copy the 'alive topics' to Kisslicertalk. In the meanwhile, I lock the topics at the Refugee Camp and change the welcome message to point everyone to the new site as well.

I was planning to open the Google Group after that as well, so there is no need to become a member to view the content.

Brett, are you Canadian or American?

Bart

2014-11-07 19:04 GMT+01:00 Davide Ardizzoia <ardizzo...@gmail.com>:

IMHO,
all it takes now it's Jonathan to change the link on his webpage(s): newcomers will get an "official" entry point, yet Plexxus will be able to volunteer and mantain site (with the help of willing people around here).

Plexxus: virtual beer paid!

Best Regards
Davide Ardizzoia



Il giorno venerdì 7 novembre 2014 16:33:19 UTC+1, plexuss ha scritto:

Kisslicertalk.com is now active and anyone that wants to make an account and start posting feel free to do so. there is no need to wait for a real forum to come about. and if there is an "official" forum, then great. the more the merrier. if kisslicertalk.com doesn't appeal to anyone that will be reflected in the lack of posting and so be it. enjoy.

I have implemented recaptcha to keep spam down. I also deleted some spam and spam users. if the forum becomes active I will add people as mods to help with spam etc. we'll talk about how that will happen (nomination, obvious people, etc). also i would want to give a couple people the "keys" to the forum so that it's not tied to one person (me). this may be tricky but I am sure we can figure it out.

It doesn't really matter where the forum lives. jon can have his own forum or whatever he feels is appropriate from an "official" standpoint. but we need a more effective way to share and communicate as end users. having a discrete forum is not a bad thing. anything that helps people and is useful is a good thing. I don't think there is any need to argue about it really. 

When I started printrbottalk.com there was some grumbling about it not being "official". in the end, PB themselves put customer support as a low priority especially in the beginning. this makes sense because with limited resources you want to put more effort on fulfilling orders in a timely fashion with a quality product. eventually PB saw that PBtalk was the go-to place for end user help. we had discussions about how to fold PBtalk into PB officially but I think in the end PB realized that it was better to have other people do the work and really PBtalk was only helping PB be successful. I pretty much expect the same thing will happen with kisslicertalk.com if people start using. KISStalk!

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[Matt Hoover]

[Bart]

Ceci n'est pas une pipe

2014-11-08 21:43 GMT+01:00 Matt Hoover <hoov...@gmail.com>:

[PenskeGuy]

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:02:54 AM UTC-8, toranarod wrote:

What you call good etiquette doesn't make any more sense to him than his computer algorithms do to you

 Actually, they would. I'm fluent in five computer languages.

[PenskeGuy]

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:16:07 AM UTC-8, Plexus Brett wrote:

Jonathan does a great job with his software.

Yes he does. No quarrel there.
 

he owes us nothing. he has no responsibility to anything he doesn't care to take responsibility for.

Then that should be simply stated; not state the opposite and leave everyone hanging.
 

it makes sense that a forum or whatever is not a priority for him - it wouldn't be for me if I was a dev. my priority would be the software. it seems to me that Jonathan is most engaged when he is solving problems and bugs in his software. thats what makes him a good dev and makes Kisslicer so good.

And coding in a vacuum is less than productive, from an efficiency aspect. A dev's forum is his/her feedback loop. No feedback; bugs stay hidden. New features or a better way to accomplish that which an existing feature does comes not only from the programmer's mind but from many minds; all wired differently. Not all of the suggestions/requests should be implemented, obviously, but there is value in looking at a particular entity from many angles. The forum accomplishes that and is a complementary aspect of coding.