Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
I'm sure that our goals are basically the same: to try our best to see to it that Srila Prabhupada's priceless legacy gets preserved, protected and distributed as far and wide as possible.
But, here is my #1 burning question to the Archives:
Why there are there 45 straight days from August 17 to October 2, 1977 with no tapes of Srila Prabhupada whatsoever? Witnesses have testified that at that time, Tamal Krishna Dasa had ordered that a tape recorder be turned on every time that Srila Prabhupada spoke, so where are the tapes? Srila Prabhupada never spoke even once in 1 1/2 months??? This makes no sense.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!Thought I would drop you a quick note Prabhu.At the bottom of the first posting by Ekanatha about the audio, he has a chart on progress. But I will summarize and add a bit of info.All cassette audio is digitized and being transcribed.As of 2 months ago there were 161 reel to reels to be digitally transferred. WAV Broadcast quality is used. There is much less to transfer now of course since work is proceeding. However these reel to reels were copied years and years ago to cassette for transcribing, and the majority of them are already in the VedaBase.Your ServantNitya-Trpta d.d.
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
It is indeed very sad that so many days are missing, throughout Srila Prabhupada's time with us.
Unfortunately the Archives does not have those tapes. A Gap list was created many years ago by Ekanatha Prabhu to try and encourage anyone who might have them or know about any recordings to surrender them to the Archives. I have attached the list here.
Remember this is an old Gap log and needs to be updated. But sadly the gap you have referred to has not been filled.
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
![ameyatma das [ACBSP]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVnHHlPggYH7OWsBKJq_OHPOS8aQgtAFizaGuappjTs8fTlVz5r=s40-c)
ameyatma das [ACBSP]
Obviously, knowing the devotees at the archives, it would be most unlikely that they had those missing tapes (assuming that tapes were made and are thus missing). It would be criminal for anyone to have kept those tapes hidden or destroyed them (criminal in my terms, maybe not according to any government laws). But, the question has to be asked and we all need to know their official response.
But, I also question, "What has the GBC done about this?" Have they made an official investigation into this matter. If so, what was the result, their conclusion?
But, if they never have, in the past 33 years, ever made an official investigation into this matter, that, again, i quantify as constituting a criminal act on their part. At the very least it shows:
a) their total lack of interest in knowing and following SP's vani b) a possible motive of wanting to keep 'something' hidden/secret. c) a complete disregard for protecting Srila Prabhupad's teachings and making them available for all to hear d) a complete disregard for the opinions, views, and grave concerns of their Godbrothers, Srila Prabhupad direct disciples, who have for many many years expressed their concerns about this issue.
What have the GBC done about this. I know that Jayadvaita Maharaj was not a member of the GBC, he does associate and deal with them much more than we. He is a board member of the Archives and a BBT Trustee and thus he should be just as concerned to know the truth of this matter as much as any of us. Since he has had access to and a working relation with the GBC all these years, could he 1) please shed light on what the GBC have done, what their official conclusion is 2) if he does not know what the GBC has done, or he knows they have made no official inquiry, can he convey our grave concerns to the proper channels, or tell us who those channels are and how to contact them.
Pita das has told me that he, at one time, actually saw those missing tapes. In Dallas.
Since I can't recall his exact story on this, I have cc'd him and ask that he reply and explain to this forum his story.
But, as I recall it, Pita said that he actually saw the tapes that wound up missing.
Pita das's GBC at that time, and for years before and after SP's disappearance, was Tamal Krishna. Pita Das claims that when he was in Dallas, sometime after SP's disappearance, that Sankarashan das showed him a shelf with many tapes on it from that period that Tamal had sent him, but were never sent on to the Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry.
I would like if Pita could tell us the whole thing, as it is sketchy from my side. But, he had told me that when he later asked Sankarshan das about this, he denied ever having those tapes, or any knowledge about them. Pita has claimed that he is outright lying.
So, Pita das, this issue has been raised again, and I would appreciate if you could participate and tell us the complete story, give some background how and why you were in Dallas and the circumstances of you seeing the tapes and what you were told those tapes were, etc.
ys ameyatma das
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Ameyatma Prabhu is right. there should definitely be a GBC investigation and those responsible taken to task.
All these years, everybody has been blaming the Archives for hiding tapes. Why didn't the Archives devotees push for a GBC investigation right from the start? It still seems like the Archives shares some of the responsibility for keeping mum about this for all these years. I can understand that with all of the zonal guru madness going on it might have been suicide to push the issue at that time, but I think that now is the time for all of us to band together and push for an investigation.
What do you think?
Ys, Ptd
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
There was no follow-up by Tamal Krishna Goswami.
--
You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google
Prabhupadanuga group.
To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to
istag...@googlegroups.com
Getting too many emails? Please go to
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email
settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your
settings for you.
For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi
To cancel your membership, please send an email to
istagosthi+...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
In any case, it's obvious that someone dropped the ball. I've heard that there are even quotes in TKG's book that are from 1977 tapes that are not in the Vedabase! "Something is rotten in Denmark." :-(
Here's burning question #2:
What percentage of Srila Prabhupada's audio tapes have actually been copied to a high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital format? I have gotten the impression over the years that many of the tapes were edited as WAV files and that the only digital copies are the edited versions and that this was called "archiving." Ameyatma Prabhu said that he got a WAV file from the Archives which seemed to have had analog Dolby noise reduction applied to it as part of the transfer from analog to digital. This is definitely a no-no. What is the story on this?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Nathan Zakheim
Nathan Zakheim
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Ys, Ptd
Nitya-Trpta
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Sorry I am closing down for the day here. But I will give a quick answer to Pratyasosa Prabhu's comment.
The Archives has NEVER edited the WAV files and have ALWAYS transferred
to digital "as is".
Sometimes there is confusion between Archival and Ministry releases. Thus far the only releases have been Ministry releases. All the audio transferred is in unprocessed WAV (bfw). It is stored on several hard drives in various locations, and on DVDs.
No more until tomorrow or later, otherwise I get square eyes from too much computer. Sorry, please be patient and kind with me.
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
> --
> You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google
> Prabhupadanuga group.
>
> To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to
> istag...@googlegroups.com
>
> Getting too many emails? Please go to
> http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email
> settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your
> settings for you.
>
> For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi
>
> To cancel your membership, please send an email to
> istagosthi+...@googlegroups.com
>
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
The advantage of FLAC is that it takes up less space and it can include internal tags. You can even tell from the tags whether or not an original FLAC file has been modified in any way!
Just as an experiment, I downloaded some music files which were in FLAC format. They already had the internal tags filled out to some extent, but I used Tag & Rename to make the tags more consistent and to add some that were missing. Then I used dBpoweramp Music Converter (a.k.a. "the "Swiss Army Knife" of audio converters") to convert them all to MP3 files in one fell swoop. All of the tags were still there in the MP3 files! They got transferred perfectly! :-)
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Nitya-Trpta d.d.: The Archives does not have those missing Tapes
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Actually that was a last ditch attempt. Lets do a little time travel here.
Back to 1977.
There was no fax, we had a telex at the BBT, there was no international currier survives reasonable to afford. When I sent film to traveling devotees, the traveling SKP devotee or brahmacari who was going to or near the destination brought the film. This is also how the BBT got tapes and recorders to devotees traveling with Srila Prabhupada.
Parama-rupa Prabhu, remembers tapes only slowly coming from India and was always trying to get more recordings. After our Divine Master left this world, he continued to trace any missing recordings for years. He finally came to think that either they were not made or got "lost or pilfered" on their path back to the BBT via the "who was traveling to the USA" cheap courier method employed back then.
Around 1995 the Gap list was made to try and encourage devotees to surrender their private stashes from those missing (gaps) time frames. Thus the correspondence with Tamal Krishna Goswami in 1996 was a last ditch attempt to get closer on the question of a gap in August 1977. Most likely there were no recordings made and for this reason we don't have them, but as of writing this we can not be sure. The only thing that is for sure is that the Bhaktivedanta Archives never received them.
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Dear Nitya-tripta Prabhu,
Thank you for forwarding me this e-mail…RE: Why WAV files? Why not FLAC files?
The case for WAV in archival usage;
There are a number of audio formats that could be used to encode audio, however, the wider acceptance and use of a format in a professional audio environment, the greater the likelihood of long-term acceptance of that format, and the greater the probability of professional tools being developed to migrate that format to future file formats when it becomes necessary. Because of the simplicity and ubiquity of linear PCM the international audio community uses and recommends BWF as the archival standard. We follow this standard as our primary PRESERVATION format.
Distribution/copies is another thing and it is this arena FLAC and or MP3 could and can play a vital role.
There are other considerations such as lossless and uncompressed file systems, which WAV is a primary one but it is the worldwide ubiquitous nature of WAV that makes it the first choice in audio archiving. It should also be pointed out that BWF is only different from WAV in that it allows Metadata to be inserted into the file header thus allowing it to carry information about the file within itself.
With regard to space considerations yes FLAC will be a smaller file than the same file in BWF, but as an archival standard able to be played throughout the world presumable long after other formats have ceased to be because of its global presents puts it squarely into the primary archival realm. Also, the cost of hard drives to make up the extra space needed for WAV is nominal from an Archival point of view. From a consumers point of view file size is an issue and would be address differently in a non-WAV format.
Hopefully this makes clearer why we use BWF (WAV) as our primary format for archiving… not to be confused with consumer distribution needs which would require a different format for a different set of reasons.
Ys; pr
This is definitely encouraging news, Mother Nitya-Trpta Prabhu, but why WAV
files? Why not FLAC files? If a WAV file is converted to a FLAC file and
then back to a WAV file, you get an exact bit-for-bit copy of the original
WAV file! You haven't lost anything! Do an experiment and see for yourself!
The Archives devotees don't seem to understand this. They are still thinking
analog.
The advantage of FLAC is that it takes up less space and it can include
internal tags. You can even tell from the tags whether or not an original
FLAC file has been modified in any way!
Just as an experiment, I downloaded some music files which were in FLAC
format. They already had the internal tags filled out to some extent, but I
used Tag & Rename <http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm> to make the tags more
consistent and to add some that were missing. Then I used dBpoweramp Music
Converter <http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm> (a.k.a. "the "Swiss Army
Knife" of audio converters") to convert them all to MP3 files in one fell
swoop. All of the tags were still there in the MP3 files! They got
transferred perfectly! :-)
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Nitya-Trpta <nitya-tr...@pamho.net>wrote:Dandavats,Jai Srila Prabhupada!Sorry I am closing down for the day here. But I will give a quick answer toPratyasosa Prabhu's comment.The Archives has NEVER edited the WAV files and have ALWAYS transferredto digital "as is".Sometimes there is confusion between Archival and Ministry releases. Thusfar the only releases have been Ministry releases. All the audio transferredis in unprocessed WAV (bfw). It is stored on several hard drives in variouslocations, and on DVDs.No more until tomorrow or later, otherwise I get square eyes from too muchcomputer. Sorry, please be patient and kind with me.Your ServantNitya-Trpta d.d.
Nathan Zakheim
Nitya-Trpta
to a high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital format?"
have. These need to be verified if they are the original or copies, or contain
more or less audio information.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
I am not familiar with the "BFW" version of the WAV file format, but if it allows tags and you don't mind the extra space that they take up, then it's probably not so important.
"87% transfered." Then the obvious question is, "Why not 100%?" Why wasn't this work completed 15 years ago at the latest? The technology was there. What is their excuse? Why let the original tapes deteriorate for an additional 15 years before finally copying them to the digital domain? Could it be that the Archives devotees have or had their priorities mixed up?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Dandavats,Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Nathan Zakheim
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
mark
public board.
Dear Pratyatosa das,
As I alluded in our private email exchange the other night I have been
in the process of preparing to execute a positive alternative,
receiving excellent guidance and advice on that subject from within
(Caitya Guru) AND without (a couple Bhaktas more advanced than me).
But since the success of this alternative requires more willing
participants than such a handful as exist now, all I can do in the
mean time is fend off the advance of those who (intentionally or not)
are aiding and abetting the rascals by speaking nonsense (spreading
false propaganda/disinformation) under the guise of being the
ambassador of Srila Prabhupada's solution on the strength of how many
books they distributed or how nicely they bathed Srila Prabhupada's
Vapu, rather than their strong siddhanta regarding HIS SCHEME for
success.
This is the front line battle for the hearts and minds because these
overzealous gurus in training have held sway over the inquiring minds
of the innocent but naive for many years until I stumbled onto the
scene. Minds of many otherwise capable persons who when relieved of
the blinders placed over their third eye will be an unstoppable force
for liberating Srila Prabhupada's vani and distributing it AS IT WAS.
If the slashing and burning of RCB's sword and mine as well can snap
even one listener out of their stupor, that is one who might be an
asset to the "alternative".
Until then, standing alone, we tilt at windmills and cause enough
ruckus to prompt our misguided opponents to further dig into their
trenches and burn the evidence, as NNVdas rightly observes.
C'est la Vie. Doing my best.
Hare Krsna
On Apr 4, 12:18 pm, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <pratyat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear Nara Narayana Visvakarma Prabhu, what is your positive alternative? As
> you already know, audio tapes don't last forever. We are running out of
> time!
>
> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
You haven't told me any more privately than you have told us just now, but as I said to you then, "I'm sure that you know what you're doing." I hope and I pray that you get the manpower you need and that Lord Sri Krishna blesses you and protects you.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Nathan Zakheim
mark
track the tapes down.
Don't you have some plaster to chisel?
> > request Pratyatosa Dasa (pratyat...@gmail.com) to change your
> > settings for you.
>
> > For more options, please go tohttp://groups.google.com/group/
> > istagosthi
>
> > To cancel your membership, please send an email to istagosthi
Nathan Zakheim
Unlike yourself, I am not in charge of this google group.
> Getting too many emails? Please go to http://groups.google.com/
> group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email settings, or
> request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your
> settings for you.
>
> For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/
> istagosthi
>
> To cancel your membership, please send an email to istagosthi
> +unsub...@googlegroups.com
>
mark
everyone elses batteries.
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Your questions however got me thinking last night about how we can so easily form an incorrect or incomplete impression of an issue or situation when communicating via e-mails or listening to rumors. I personally find e-mails to be a technology that is a lot harder to convey feelings and opinions to others so they can really understand what one is trying to convey. So I thought maybe I would take a minute to try and express a couple of my observations about the archives and the work being done here since my arrival back in 2008
After working in BBT/ISKCON for 35 years I have noted that it has become common-place to see devotees move on to other services or locations and that very few stick it out for long periods of time.
But here I see the same two faces I remember from Los Angeles in the 1970’s and 80’s working just as hard as they were in their youth and also see the many personal sacrifices they have made in both family and financial considerations in order to carry out this service.
So when I see comments like “what are they doing” and they “are in it for the money” etc, it makes me sad with uncomfortable that devotees can dismiss others so quickly without a second thought about time, place and circumstances; or an endeavor to go to the source, or person(s) at the center of the issue for proper clarification. Yet Ekanatha and Parama-rupa Prabhu’s continue on diligently keeping the archival collection safe and continue working toward the day the archival collection can be handed over to the next generation with confidence that all that could be done was done and that the next generations can reap the benefit of the painstaking work done now by those who were there during the time of our beloved Spiritual Master and have an accurate record “as it is”.
It also makes me wonder when I see statements that “they” are hiding things or “they” are not releasing stuff because it is “controversial”. I’m sorry, but who ever says these things are just making it up or very confused. This type of talk contradicts history, after all who put together and released the uncensored VedaBase and to show the real character of these devotees, it was they who made available the letters for the letters book release and published the Siksamrita… both considered “controversial” at that time by the GBC, and still the archives did it because “their” philosophy remains one of archiving and making available ALL and to ALL. This is not the behavior of those trying to hide things. I suggest that these archives devotees are the best friends of our society and should be given kudos’s not unadulterated criticism, for their stand to complete the audio collection in its archival entirety and then make available.
Anyhow enough of my pet peeves now let me see if I can try and answer your “burning questions”.
"why not 100%"
70 books...one massive VedaBase, Ministry releases, music releases, building and paying off a facility, maintenance of the collection and facility. Acquiring the collection... and most importantly keeping it all safe and secure. Sounds to me like the priorities are in the right place, especially when one considers the limited budget to work with over the years.
Now we are even more focused and have moved away from sales and production, thus freeing up time and energy into preservation only. Once this is done then standby for maybe a FLAC attack! ;) BTW, Prabhu because of the good care taken with the audio collection we are not really seeing any time related problems with the remaining audio collection being transferred currently.
--
You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google
Prabhupadanuga group.
To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to
istag...@googlegroups.com
Getting too many emails? Please go to
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email
settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your
settings for you.
For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi
To cancel your membership, please send an email to
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
And my answer to : “Where does the donation money go?”
All donations go to preservation, conservation supplies, utilities, and facility maintenance. Although we do have a program where an individual can specify a project or collection department (like audio, documents, photographic). Now with the Archives getting out of sales and production we would like to encourage donations for maintaining a few qualified proofreaders…
I think that will do for today Prabhu I'm very busy and I hate to keep interrupting the others with questions in this busy time.
Many of us are under the impression that if we donate to the Archives, the
money would go to maintain the Archives devotees' cars, houses, wives,
children, etc. If you would prefer, I could wait and ask a specific
question, via the forum, about where the donation money goes.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Nitya-Trpta <Nitya-tr...@pamho.net>wrote:Dandavats,Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Sure, but I don't really see the relevance. Could you explain your thoughtson this, if you don't mind.Your ServantNitya-Trpta d.d.
Quick answers, for I am going outside now for many hours. Beautiful Spring
day here and the trees are blooming.
Mataji, has Ekanatha Prabhu sold his house yet?
The house that he personally built with his own hands has had to be
foreclosed upon.
Does he also live at the Archives?
yes
What about Parama-rupa Prabhu?
He rents a place.
Do hurricanes ever go that far inland?
Thank God no.
ys
ntdd
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
I know what it's like living in the country. I've done it. It is a good place to raise children, but for the other 3 asramas, it's simply sense gratification. Living in the country is very expensive and very time consuming. My wife and I purchased a house in Hillsborough, North Carolina, a short walk from the ISKCON temple. We got our electricity from Duke Power which supplies the town, and it cost 7 cent per kilowatt-hour. The temple got their power from the country co-op and it cost 10 cents per kilowatt-hour. This is just one example.
Better to live in an apartment in town with everything within easy walking distance. No more maintaining houses, buildings, motor vehicles, septic systems, wells, lawns, gardens, driveways, etc. We're here to do devotional service, not to live a comfortable life in the country. I feel much safer living a stones throw from the police station, the fire station, and an ambulance service than I ever did living in the country, and no stupid grass to mow!
Living in a small town, like Hancock, Michigan, the air is just as pure as in the country because we are surrounded by water, including, on 3 sides, the largest, purest, cleanest, freshest body of water in the entire world, the lake that is very, very sacred to the Native Americans, Lake Superior! And we don't have to spend one penny on air conditioning!
Like I told my daughter recently, "To be comfortable in a hot climate is very expensive. To be comfortable in a cold climate is cheap and easy. Our bodies have built-in heaters, so all that you have to do is to bundle up!" :-)
BTW, does anyone else currently work at the Archives besides the 3 board members?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
The second that I saw this supposed reply from you, I thought, "This was actually written by Parama-rupa Prabhu!" Am I right?
This is a typical Archives answer. Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! No Vaisnava humility whatsoever. "How dare you challenge us! Don't you know that we never make any mistakes? Don't you know that we are infallible, and that our motives are 100% pure? Just look at all the great service that we have done! Just look at how steady we are!" This just proves once again how insecure the Archives devotees are in their service to Srila Prabhupada. Always on the defensive. Any time that we try to tell them anything, the answer is always, "We already know everything! You can't tell us anything! We are perfect and complete! Don't bother us."
You (Parama-rupa?) said:
...because of the good care taken with the audio collection we are not really seeing any time related problems with the remaining audio collection being transferred currently.
This is such a very great relief! But the fact still remains, the original tapes should have been 100% transferred to digital 15 years ago at the latest, but instead, Ekanatha was busy "building a house with his own hands."
The fact that they have lasted longer than they normally do is Krishna's divine intervention. Krishna has always been very merciful upon us, and again, due to His causeless mercy, He has saved us! Thank you Krishna! However, let's not tempt fate any more than we already have!
This brings me to my burning question #3:
Why, after having been requested to do so for at least 2 years, are the high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital copies not being made available as free downloads on the Internet?
This is especially important for the good quality tapes which are in unmarked boxes, because it would allow devotees from all over the world to be engaged in trying to identify the time and/or place of those recordings. We are not getting any younger! Time is of the essence!
Please read all of the postings and follow all of the links at:
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/3f80443bd19c718a
Have I not made my case? Ameyatma Prabhu agrees with me. Madhudvisa Prabhu agrees with me. No one, including the Archives devotees, has ever found any fault with the case that I have tried to make. I even gave the example of the Detroit police officer in an email to Madhuha 2 years ago, which he forwarded to Ekanatha Prabhu, but Ekanatha's answer was, "We are already doing everything." No mention whatsoever of my free internet download proposal. :-(
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Nathan Zakheim
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Concerning http://www.vedabase.com/index.php?main=purchase, it's good that all of the links now go to the BBTI site, but you forgot to change the phone number to the BBTI's toll-free number.
It's also good that the VedaBase is now $100, instead of $500. This is definitely a step in the right direction, but it should be sold with no copy protection for about $5 at the most. Rather than include technical support in the price, advertise a free forum wherein VedaBase users could help each other. The forum could also include an FAQ page. I would be willing to help run such a forum if the BBTI site would agree to give a link to it.
How much time and energy went into creating the VedaBase has nothing to do with it. We don't get paid for our devotional service to Krishna. If we get paid, then the amount of benefit that we get from our service is reduced. Srila Prabhupada said "10% over cost for devotees." Therefore, at least for devotees, the price should be much less than $100. We are preachers, not misers. Lord Caitanya opened up the storehouse of knowledge and distributed it freely. Let's follow His divine example! The VedaBase is wonderful, so let's distribute it as far and wide as possible!
Concerning http://prabhupada.com/, how soon is "coming soon?" Why not make each of the links active one at a time, instead of waiting to do everything in one fell swoop? "Baby steps," you know? It helps to overcome inertia.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Nitya-Trpta
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you very much for your kind and encouraging words, Nara-Narayana Prabhu. Also thank you for recognizing that I am trying, albeit imperfectly, to be a bridge for communication.
Today I am very busy with Archives services, so I will not be participating today. However I am interested to read what other members of this forum have to say about the Bhaktivedanta Archives.
[If you don't want to be public, any may write to me at <ni...@pamho.net>]
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
I thought that it was clear from my email that I was addressing the devotee who actually wrote the email, Parama-rupa Prabhu.
He complains that devotees accuse them of hiding tapes, but what does he expect? When I sent a polite email to Ekanatha Prabhu a couple of months ago asking why there are absolutely no tapes by Srila Prabhupada for an entire 1 1/2 month stretch in 1977, I got no reply whatsoever! Besides, I never once accused the Archives devotees of hiding any tapes. I always defended them, and gave them the benefit of the doubt. Defending them to Rocana and Bhakta Philip Prabhus is probably part of the reason that Rocana now refuses to publish anything that I send him. :-(
At least now we have a dialog going on with the BA PR department, the very able, very amiable, highly qualified Mother Nitya-Trpta Prabhu, and I sincerely apologize to her for getting too heavy with Parama-rupa in an email addressed to her.
But if Parama-rupa wrote it, then he should sign it, and not hide behind a woman's apron strings, don't you agree?
You replied on this thread, so why not Parama-rupa and Ekanatha also? Why should they force Mother Nitya-Trpta to take 100% of the heat?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
PS: When sending an email to this thread, please use the subject:
Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
.. not:
Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives.
mark
serious "germane" questions being put forward by rightfully angry and
seriously concerned men who have simply had enough of the obfuscation
going on with Iskcon and all groups run by and associated with Iskcon
including the B.Archives.
These angry men have tolerated 35+ years of lies and abuse from Iskcon
and every "board" member of every organization that Iskcon has a
strangle hold on. They are fed up and on a mission.
Of course the men of the archives are so out of touch with this
reality, so convinced they are flawless and beyond reproach, and thus
so absolutely clueless about the nature of these inquiries that they
send their WIFE to take the heat?
She was treated with respect from the get go by Pratyatosa dasa. As
soon as she saw how hard hitting the questions were and how
uncompromising the members here were going to be due to their
justified frustration with the status quo, she should have begged
out. I honestly believe that Pratyatosa dasa should have refused to
deal with her at all, but that is now moot. She didn't beg out but
stated that it was time for her to "vent" a little.
So Pratyatosa dasa then gave her a light helping of sauce. He was
baited and fell for the trap.
Then true to form, NNVdas pretends concern and launches into his
apparent rescue attempt by blasting Pratyatosa dasa, yet glorifying
the Mataji. But I must ask, where was his concern when it might have
done some good? If he is astute as he would lead us to believe, why
didn't he step in immediately at the beginning and discourage the use
of a woman to be a "bridge" (actually a barrier for those not born
yesterday)? Why didn't he blast the archivists for such a heartless
ploy? Instead comparing Pratyatosa's stridency to the disrobing of
Draupadi!
I smell a rat. A bully, and a REAL cad. Making Pratyatosa look like a
choir boy in the process.
I would advise the good Mataji to cease and desist all attempts at
being used as a barrier between the men of the archives and the angry
disciples of Srila Prabhupada with pitchforks in hand. Let them fend
for themselves, lest you fall into the trap of "venting" your emotions
where they have no productive place, and reaping the consequences.
Your willingness to participate in this fashion makes you partially
responsible for any offenses committed, you are a Jiva in a woman's
body and not exempt from the rules.
As for NNVdas, I do dearly wish that he would be moderated strongly if
not banned altogether, his heavy handed intellectual dishonest just
mucks up the works time and time again.
Hare Krsna
> ...
>
> read more »
Bhaktatraveler
From: mark <markm...@yahoo.com>
To: Prabhupadanuga <istag...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:05:43 PM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google Prabhupadanuga group.
To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to istag...@googlegroups.com
For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi
To cancel your membership, please send an email to istagosthi+unsub...@googlegroups.com
Bhaktatraveler
From: Nathan Zakheim <zak...@earthlink.net>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Jayadvaita Swami <Jayadvai...@pamho.net>
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:06:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
mark
making up as he goes along.
On Apr 5, 1:48 pm, Bhaktatraveler <bhaktatrave...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Let me get this straight. This Nitya Tripta is now elevated and pontiffied to be as good as Draupadi because of her sudric ability to take a good picture? Well I'll be! What sastra is that extrapolated from?
>
> Hare Krsna
>
> RCB
>
> ________________________________
> From: Nathan Zakheim <zakh...@earthlink.net>
> To: istag...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Jayadvaita Swami <Jayadvaita.Sw...@pamho.net>
> Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:06:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
>
> Mother Nitya Trpta is one of the finest most honest and good hearted devotees that I have ever met. I worked with her for years when I was the Director for the BBT Art Department. she also worked with me as a professional photographer on a very high profile Fresco restoration project regarding the Prometheus Fresco by Jose Clemente Orozco.....a multi, multi million dollar work of art.
>
> Thanks to her, the BBT paintings (neglected, abused and stolen in real life) were photographed in hi res large format film of the highest order, so that these historic paintings will be available for thousands of years, even if the original paintings end up in a yard sale. (I bought one there, in fact!)
>
> Criticizing her in any way is not acceptable and not in harmony with the facts. She is of impeccable integrity, and deeply committed to Serving Krishna. (Anyone who has seen the "Dharshana" book will know what I mean. that was HER project and probably the finest illustrated publication that Iskcon has ever produced. Not everyone knows that she went into each photo with photoshop and removed all extraneous and unbalance elements, leaving us with a breathtaking display of Krishna Covering the Globe. (A famous artist friend of mine picked it up, and after I oriented him to what he was seeing, he and his wife spent over TWO HOURS absorbed in the book!....and he is a meat eating alcohol drinking bohemian karmi artist!
>
> Knowing Mother Nitya Trpta peaceful and creative nature, she allocated herself to being the "bridge" between suspicion and archivery. She knows Archiving, and as she mentioned, she has worked at it for thirty five years.
>
> Pratyatosa prabhu, you owe her an apology....a big one, that encompases thirty five years of her devoted service.
>
> You ask germane questions, but these questions MUST be courteous and free from vincictive attack and paranoid suspicion. She came to us on this forum, the least we can do is to provide a nice sitting place, water, prasadam, and pure Kirtan. Savagery is not replacement for that.
>
> You, Pratyatosa prabhu are dealing with very genuine and deep concerns. You will not get anywhere by "killing the messenger"....particularly when the messenger is Mother Nitya Tripta prabhu!.........One might as well be attacking Draupadi!....(That was done, and it did not work out very well.)
>
> I am sorry to scold you like this, but do not make the mistake of Dhususan!
>
> Your eternal servant,
>
> NNV das
>
> On Apr 4, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP wrote:
>
> Dear Mother Nitya-Trpta Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
>
>
> >The second that I saw this supposed reply from you, I thought, "This was actually written by Parama-rupa Prabhu!" Am I right?
>
> >This is a typical Archives answer. Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! No Vaisnava humility whatsoever. "How dare you challenge us! Don't you know that we never make any mistakes? Don't you know that we are infallible, and that our motives are 100% pure? Just look at all the great service that we have done! Just look at how steady we are!" This just proves once again how insecure the Archives devotees are in their service to Srila Prabhupada. Always on the defensive. Any time that we try to tell them anything, the answer is always, "We already know everything! You can't tell us anything! We are perfect and complete! Don't bother us."
>
> >You (Parama-rupa?) said:
>
> >...because of the good care taken with the audio collection we are not really seeing any time related problems with the remaining audio collection being transferred currently.
>
> >This is such a very great relief! But the fact still remains, the original tapes should have been 100% transferred to digital 15 years ago at the latest, but instead, Ekanatha was busy "building a house with his own hands."
>
> >The fact that they have lasted longer than they normally do is Krishna's divine intervention. Krishna has always been very merciful upon us, and again, due to His causeless mercy, He has saved us! Thank you Krishna! However, let's not tempt fate any more than we already have!
>
> >This brings me to my burning question #3:
>
> >Why, after having been requested to do so for at least 2 years, are the high quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital copies not being made available as free downloads on the Internet?
>
> >This is especially important for the good quality tapes which are in unmarked boxes, because it would allow devotees from all over the world to be engaged in trying to identify the time and/or place of those recordings. We are not getting any younger! Time is of the essence!
>
> >Please read all of the postings and follow all of the links at:
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/3f8044...
>
> >Have I not made my case? Ameyatma Prabhu agrees with me. Madhudvisa Prabhu agrees with me. No one, including the Archives devotees, has ever found any fault with the case that I have tried to make. I even gave the example of the Detroit police officer in an email to Madhuha 2 years ago, which he forwarded to Ekanatha Prabhu, but Ekanatha's answer was, "We are already doing everything." No mention whatsoever of my free internet download proposal. :-(
>
> >Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
> >On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Nitya-Trpta <nitya-trpta.ac...@pamho.net> wrote:
>
> >Dandavats,
> >>Jai Srila Prabhupada!
>
> >>This is going to be a little long compared to my shorter posts. But I want to vent a little. :-)
>
> >>I see the questions you are posing have mainly been answered in the posts we have put online, but sometimes we need it condensed into one short and concise manner, I know I prefer that.
>
> >>Your questions however got me thinking last night about how we can so easily form an incorrect or incomplete impression of an issue or situation when communicating via e-mails or listening to rumors. I personally find e-mails to be a technology that is a lot harder to convey feelings and opinions to others so they can really understand what one is trying to convey. So I thought maybe I would take a minute to try and express a couple of my observations about the archives and the work being done here since my arrival back in 2008
>
> >> After working in BBT/ISKCON for 35 years I have noted that it has become common-place to see devotees move on to other services or locations and that very few stick it out for long periods of time.
>
> >> But here I see the same two faces I remember from Los Angeles in the 1970’s and 80’s working just as hard as they were in their youth and also see the many personal sacrifices they have made in both family and financial considerations in order to carry out this service.
>
> >> So when I see comments like “what are they doing” and they “are in it for the money” etc, it makes me sad with uncomfortable that devotees can dismiss others so quickly without a second thought about time, place and circumstances; or an endeavor to go to the source, or person(s) at the center of the issue for proper clarification. Yet Ekanatha and Parama-rupa Prabhu’s continue on diligently keeping the archival collection safe and continue working toward the day the archival collection can be handed over to the next generation with confidence that all that could be done was done and that the next generations can reap the benefit of the painstaking work done now by those who were there during the time of our beloved Spiritual Master and have an accurate record “as it is”.
>
> >> It also makes me wonder when I see statements that “they” are hiding things or “they” are not releasing stuff because it is “controversial”. I’m sorry, but who ever says these things are just making it up or very confused. This type of talk contradicts history, after all who put together and released the uncensored VedaBase and to show the real character of these devotees, it was they who made available the letters for the letters book release and published the Siksamrita… both considered “controversial” at that time by the GBC, and still the archives did it because “their” philosophy remains one of archiving and making available ALL and to ALL. This is not the behavior of those trying to hide things. I suggest that these archives devotees are the best friends of our society and should be given kudos’s not unadulterated criticism, for their stand to complete the audio collection in its archival entirety and then make
> available.
>
> >> Anyhow enough of my pet peeves now let me see if I can try and answer your “burning questions”.
>
> >> "why not 100%"
> >>70 books...one massive VedaBase, Ministry releases, music releases, building and paying off a facility, maintenance of the collection and facility. Acquiring the collection... and most importantly keeping it all safe and secure. Sounds to me like the priorities are in the right place, especially when one considers the limited budget to work with over the years.
> >>Now we are even more focused and have moved away from sales and production, thus freeing up time and energy into preservation only. Once this is done then standby for maybe a FLAC attack! ;) BTW, Prabhu because of the good care taken with the audio collection we are not really seeing any time related problems with the remaining audio collection being transferred currently.
> >>Your Servant
> >>Nitya-Trpta d.d.
>
> >--
> >You have received this email message because you are
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Bhaktatraveler
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to istag...@googlegroups.com
Getting too many emails? Please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your settings for you.
For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
As usual, Bhakta Mark's perceptive abilities have helped to drive away the darkness of maya's illusory energy.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Patrick Hedemark
From: Bhaktatraveler <bhaktat...@yahoo.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 1:48:13 PM
mark
crooked?
Here we see Pragosha das' true colors, again.
He thinks the GBC have a valid charge from Srila Prabhupada.
He thinks the fraudulent BBTi, who oversees the "Archives" has a valid
charge from Srila Prabhupada to oversee and Guide the Archiving of his
Vani.
He thinks the devotees, who have been doing theLlegwork for the
fraudulent usurpers are advanced dearmost servitors of the Supreme
Lord, instead of at best innocent and naive cheerleading hired help of
very very fallen Kanisthas. Using the term Kanistha in the most
extremely generous sense ONLY BECAUSE Srila Prabhupada accepted them
at one point and regardless of their rejection of him he still loves
them. But to be fair to the truth of today's reality, he also refers
to such people who reject the authority of the Acarya as so-called
devotees in Vaisnava dress, therefore not equal to a neophyte who is a
pure devotee like Tapana Misra das or Chandrasekara das.
Of course, as far as ingratiating himself to this large mass of
people, Pragosha dasa couldn't do any better. Enjoy your temporary
popularity Pragosha das. And remember, temporary is the operative
word.
So in fact all of his criticism against the true and vigilant
disciples of Srila Prabhupada absolutely moot, irrelevant, and
certainly the real offense here, as such disciples are picking
themselves up off the ground after being kicked and beaten, at serious
disadvantage, and bravely using whatever resources are at hand to take
on Goliath. Oh, and I might add, having to be attacked by Goliath's
lap dog, Pragosha das, who in his crooked way goes straight for the
crotch thinking he is big enough to hit the jugular.
Hare Rama
On Apr 5, 2:30 pm, Patrick Hedemark <pdhedem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Here is the "straight" stuff on all this back and forth.
>
> Mother Nitya Trypta wrote to you all -in a generous spirit of cooperation - to help you all understand whatever it is that has contributed to the present "pace" at which the totality of the vani of Srila Prabhupada - has till this present point in time - been made available to all the devotees who have accepted this Krsna Consciousness movement; the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra - under the inspiration and guidance of Srila Prabhupada.
>
> She - and the other devotees tasked with this service have been doing what they have been able to this point - based entirely upon the resources available to them up to this point in time.
>
> As an initiated disciple of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada for over 35 years - she is viewed by the Lord Himself to be in fact "as good as His very Self" and being so valued - she is - like all such sincere souls - afforded by Him and all of HIS servants - a most wonderful respect, being eternally treasured by Him.
>
> Her skills - whether sudra in form or quality or otherwise - are offered by her to Srila Prabhupada - as an aspiring Vaisnava. This "offering" of said talents is done with the actual condition called "Vaisnava": a position above that of even "Brahman". The skill may in fact be of the "sudra" nature - but its being offered to Srila Prabhupada - and then by him on up the Parampara - transforms it - and renders it completely transcendental and pure. The iron rod - being touched by the fire - takes the quality of fire - despite its appearance as merely iron rod.
>
> The devotees in the Archives have graciously explained the nuts and bolts of the situation to everyone now. It is now up to any of you to send them whatever money you might be both willing and able to assist them with the effort and/or your willingness to assist them with any technical skill you might possess that could likewise - speed up the process.
>
> Other than that - they are under no obligation to continue chatting with you all about this. There business is to do their assigned tasks - to the best of their ability and in fact - refrain from entertaining any further chat with anyone on the matter - and especially those whose actual position is as the members of the congregation who are simply tasked with voluntarily serving the 7 Purposes of ISKCON as given by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.
>
> My advice to them is to abandon this covey of idle talkers and demand that sans a check for a minimum of say "$500.00" minimum - they simply ignore any further comments or questions.
>
> Such comments as this by both NNV & Catur Bahu prabhu are in my humble estimation, irrelevant to the issue in every way and take the discussion of what is slowing down the production of the archives - to THE CHARACTER, TALENTS, VARNA OR MOTIVES of Mother Nitya Trypta OR the balance of the devotees in the Archives - and this completely distracts everyone of you and produces nothing but silly swill.
>
> You will find - within days - that they will cut you off and leave you all to endlessly and fruitlessly "gas" about this till you have sucked the last remnant of juice from it and pissed each other off considerably in the process. This is exactly how it should be.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Praghosa
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bhaktatraveler <bhaktatrave...@yahoo.com>
> To: istag...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 1:48:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
>
> Let me get this straight. This Nitya Tripta is now elevated and pontiffied to be as good as Draupadi because of her sudric ability to take a good picture? Well I'll be! What sastra is that extrapolated from?
>
> Hare Krsna
>
> RCB
>
> ________________________________
> From: Nathan Zakheim <zakh...@earthlink.net>
> To: istag...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Jayadvaita Swami <Jayadvaita.Sw...@pamho.net>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/3f8044...
>
> >Have I not made my case? Ameyatma Prabhu agrees with me. Madhudvisa Prabhu agrees with me. No one, including the Archives devotees, has ever found any fault with the case that I have tried to make. I even gave the example of the Detroit police officer in an email to Madhuha 2 years ago, which he forwarded to Ekanatha Prabhu, but Ekanatha's answer was, "We are already doing everything." No mention whatsoever of my free internet download proposal. :-(
>
> >Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
> >On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Nitya-Trpta <nitya-trpta.ac...@pamho.net> wrote:
>
> >Dandavats,
> >>Jai Srila Prabhupada!
>
> >>This is going to be a little long compared to my shorter posts. But I want to vent a little. :-)
>
> >>I see the questions you are posing have mainly been answered in the posts we have put online, but sometimes we need it condensed into one short and concise manner, I know I prefer that.
>
> >>Your questions however got me thinking last night about how we can so easily form an incorrect or incomplete impression of an issue or situation when communicating via e-mails or listening to rumors. I personally find e-mails to be a technology that is a lot harder to convey
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Bhaktatraveler
From: Patrick Hedemark <pdhed...@yahoo.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 2:30:02 PM
Bhaktatraveler
From: mark <markm...@yahoo.com>
To: Prabhupadanuga <istag...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 2:49:37 PM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
You have received this email message because you are a member of the Google Prabhupadanuga group.
To post to our group for all the world to see, please send an email to istag...@googlegroups.com
Getting too many emails? Please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/subscribe and change your email settings, or request Pratyatosa Dasa (praty...@gmail.com) to change your settings for you.
For more options, please go to http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Here are 10 quotes from postings by Nara Narayana Visvakarma Prabhu on this same thread (See below). Do you agree with him?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
1. THE UNELECTED AND FRAUDULENT GBC ARE THE LAST PEOPLE ON EARTH TO WANT TO FIND THOSE TAPES OR DIVULGE THEIR CONTENTS. SOMEONE SAID THAT THEY SAW THEM IN TAMAL'S SAFE, AND THAT LATER THEY HAD DISAPPEARED. GAURIDAS PANDIT INSISTS THAT THEY WERE RECORDED AND TAKEN INTO POSSESSION BY TAMAL.
Bhaktatraveler
#4...... yes, good call.
From: Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com>
To: istag...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 8:54:13 PM
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Dialog with the Bhaktivedanta Archives
Nathan Zakheim
Nathan Zakheim
Oh! that now makes sence and is par for his course of action.As for Nitya and Ekanath? I also knew of them in LA at the same time, enough said. I'm supposed to be nice!
CB
To cancel your membership, please send an email to istagosthi+...@googlegroups.com
mark
Caturbahu das (aka RCB) never said anything about Nitya Trypta dasi
not being saintly. Ever. This is just another one of those sneaky
traps laid by NNVdas. He doesn't think anyone will go back and read
the chronology of statements. I did.
NNV started by equating Pratyatosa's blunt response to the Mataji with
the disrobing of Draupadi. Which was inappropriate.
Next, RCB wondered how NNV could even suggest that Nitya Trypta, a
sudra photographer who married a strict Iskcon company man known for
roughly handling devotees seeking Vani and photos from the archives,
is as good as a nitya siddha expansion of Srimati Radharani herself.
Then NNV turns this around and claims that RCB is saying that Nitya
Trypta is not saintly because she is a sudra photographer. Twisting
RCB's words to fit his agenda. Which appears to be an attempt to
chill RCB's free speech, free inquiry into her actions, under
possibility of being offensive to a pure devotee. How soon NNV
forgets that this is an audit of her and her husband which is by
nature critical, and called for in part by NNVdas himself!
NNVdas then goes on to claim her level of Bhakti is exalted because in
his opinion, Nitya Trypta's pure and prime motivation in life is,
selflessly and without sensuousness, to preserve Srila Prabhupada's
vani.
As opposed to the manifest truth that she is just as motivated and
conditioned as me or you, and currently playing her role to support
her husband, an Iskcon company man. Doing her best, but subject to
censure by her community if she cannot censure herself, as we all are
subject in community living.
Her husband (and herself by association) were appointed to a position
of public service by an irresponsible body of people who lack the
authority and motivation to oversee the proven lackluster performance
of their appointees who haven't shown the ability to self-govern and
regulate themselves. (Judge by the result)
Her husband has refused to take constructive criticism, truly
cooperate with concerned parties, and accept offers of assistance from
those as or more competent than himself, while pretending that they
are above reproach, instead of accepting constructive criticism as
mild chastisement from well-wishers.
These are the facts in evidence, they are under audit in this case,
the auditors are not the issue until they are audited.
And to ice the cake, after making up this strawman to represent the
malice falsely ascribed to RCB, we go back to the beginning of the
statement NNVdas made where he directly says that RCB is ....
Not a saint.
No mention of his 35 years of tireless RCB's service to Srila
Prabhupada that might qualify him as saintly, as he so quickly points
out on Nitya Trypta's behalf, to defend her against the assault on her
sainthood that never was, that NNVdas invented in order to slander
RCB!!!!
Blinded by personal vendetta, he sentimentally overreacts to
Pratyatosa's blunt and frank letter then falsely attacks RCB using his
a total concoction of his OWN and ascribing it to RCB.
Let the record show that NNVdas is willingly, playing both sides
against each other, fomenting and provoking ill will between
participants through misconstruing statements to be connected and thus
deriving false conclusions and ascribing motives based on such
sophistry.
Doing this service of attempting to audit, check, and balance a group
of ill-appointed and unaccountable devotees, with little to no power
to influence or enforce the rightful criticisms, is hard enough
without someone sabotoging the process with provocation of emotions
based on false premises. The person's are under review. Their
character and manifest behaviors absolutely have bearing on whether
they are fit to execute the duties of an office they are appointed to,
and must be critically analyzed by peer review, lest all check and
balance be lost, and anarchy result.
Let us hope NNVdas is just temporarily a dupe of Maya, like we all can
be, and not premeditated and calculated in his poor efforts here at
sowing anarchy. A pattern has emerged however which does not lend to
the former, as well as his self-admitted penchant for diabolically
experimenting upon those he considers less astute than himself.
Either way, I fear I will be labled an offender for calling this spade
a roundish shovel with a pointy top. Par for the course as they say.
Fore!
On Apr 6, 12:01 am, Nathan Zakheim <zakh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> YOU PERSONALLY EXEMPLIFY THAT IT IS NOT REQUIRED FOR A KSYATRIYA TO
> BE A SAINT. DRAUPADI WAS SAINT, ALTHOUGH ONLY A "LOWLY" KSYRATRIYA".
>
> NITYA TRPTA MAY BE DOING "SUDRA" WORK TAKING PHOTOS OF KRISHNA'S
> PASTIMES (AS DOES RUPA MANJARI IN KRISHNA LOKA) BUT BECAUSE OF THE
> LEVEL OF HER BHAKTI, SHE CAN BE EASILY CONSIDERED TO BE SAINTLY. SHE
> HAS DEDICATED HER WHOLE LIFE TO PRESERVING SRILA PRABHUPADA'S VANI.
> WHOEVER CRITICIZES SUCH A PERSON WILL LOSE ALL THE RESULT OF PREVIOUS
> PIOUS DEEDS IN THIS AND PREVIOUS LIFETIMES.....(OH, I GET IT! IN YOUR
> CASE IT IS TOO LATE!)
>
> NNV DAS
>
> On Apr 5, 2010, at 10:48 AM, Bhaktatraveler wrote:
>
> > Let me get this straight. This Nitya Tripta is now elevated and
> > pontiffied to be as good as Draupadi because of her sudric ability
> > to take a good picture? Well I'll be! What sastra is that
> > extrapolated from?
>
> > Hare Krsna
>
> > RCB
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Bhaktatraveler
Bhaktatraveler
Nitya-Trpta
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Seems to me we are going in circles. Ekanatha's first answer covers your basic points. I have attached that document here.
The only point not covered is why not make free audio downloads like you have done. The answer: Once the audio is finished why not? Yes.
Since I (we) don't seem to be making much headway on dispelling doubts or concerns about the Archives and it's staff and methodology, I don't see much point in carrying on the discussion. Unless we can move on from the past and into the present and future, what is the point of all this discussion and effort to communicate.
I am willing to continue, but who really wants my answers or words here anyway?
I have better and more pressing things to do at the Archives. So let me know.
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-08/editorials2808.htm
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Nitya-Trpta
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Actually, I believe we do understand.
Parama-rupa writes today:
Yes you are right Prabhu, they are two different things sorry. In that case
once the archival audio is finished then we will proceed to the next step of
archival recording being made available.
There is no day to day program to release, as stated many times we are working in a holistic approach (I'm aware you don't like it) and as you kindly pointed out before about being side tracked with VedaBase and MP3 releases ( we will address that later) this would side track us away from the task at hand and not fulfill our archival duty.
A little patients Prabhu will go a long way in not only getting audio released
but getting a working archives ready to pass on.
-------
I hope that makes it clearer.
Your Servant
Nitya-Trpta d.d.
On Apr 6, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP wrote:
> Dear Mother Nitya-Trpta Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble
> obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
> You don't seem to understand the difference between Ministry audio files and
> archival audio files. I have only made the Ministry audio files available as
> free downloads <http://causelessmercy.com/#BOTTOM>. None of the Archival
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Are you saying that you are willing to make all of the archival audio files available as free downloads on the Internet once the archiving process is completed?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Dandavats,
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Nitya-Trpta
On Apr 6, 2010, at 1:10 PM, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP wrote:
> Dear Parama-rupa Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances.
> All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
> Are you saying that you are willing to make all of the archival audio files
> available as free downloads on the Internet once the archiving process is
> completed?
Paul Tombleson wrote:
Don't know about free at this point, there is always a cost involved but as a concept, yes that is our position as an archives, make available as freely as possible so long as monies come in from somewhere to support the Bhaktivedanta Archives day to day operations now and into the future. Of course this would have to be approved by the copyright holder BBT/BBTI but in our talks with them they not have given any indication to the contrary.
ys; pr
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Nitya-Trpta
> <nitya-tr...@pamho.net>wrote:
>
>> Dandavats,
>> Jai Srila Prabhupada!
>>
>> Actually, I believe we do understand.
>>
>> Parama-rupa writes today:
>> Yes you are right Prabhu, they are two different things sorry. In that case
>> once the archival audio is finished then we will proceed to the next step
>> of
>> archival recording being made available.
>>
>> There is no day to day program to release, as stated many times we are
>> working in a holistic approach (I'm aware you don't like it) and as you
>> kindly pointed out before about being side tracked with VedaBase and MP3
>> releases ( we will address that later) this would side track us away from
>> the task at hand and not fulfill our archival duty.
>>
>> A little patients Prabhu will go a long way in not only getting audio
>> released
>> but getting a working archives ready to pass on.
>> -------
>>
>> I hope that makes it clearer.
>>
>> Your Servant
>> Nitya-Trpta d.d.
>>
>
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
From: Nitya-Trpta <nitya-tr...@pamho.net>
Date: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:01 PM
Subject: Reply from Parama-rupa
To: Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <praty...@gmail.com>
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Dear Pratyatosha Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I am writing to you off the “list” in reply to your questions that Nitya-tripta passed on to me.
“So I assume that he admits that editing Srila Prabhupada's lectures was a mistake, right?”
You and I have had this discussion before about the new BTM and in those discussions I have made it clear that I was never told about Srila Prabhupada’s comment about editing until you contacted me back in the late 1990’s. So it would be a little unfair to say that I made a mistake when I was told by the BBT mail order department to make the programs fit a time frame (cassette length) because of the cost factor and only having a few subscribers. If you are asking do I wish that I didn’t have to edit then the answer is “YES”.
“You sell them on CDs or DVDs at a reasonable price, I'll buy a copy, and then I'll make them available as free downloads. Is it a deal? :-)”
Like I said before we will have to see how this all pans out. Selling is one option, Internet is another. Our focus right now is getting it done.
Also, Nitya tripa forwarded to me an e-mail from you stating that I falsely claim to have started the BTM when in fact you did. We have also had this discussion a few times before so lets put all this behind us please once and for all. Just to refresh our memories here is an exchange about this from 2005;
Braja Bhihari
1. No problem getting credit for starting the BTM.
PR:
We have no Problem saying he was the first to use the name BTM. Hence why we always referred to the BTM "as we know it today since 1977". As stated in our previous e-mail which we believe he appreciates.
From e-mail of Wednesday, May 11, 2005. The Bhaktivedanta Archives once being told of the situation by Pratyatosa dasa many years ago have been most careful not to claim that we started the BTM but rather state that Parama-rupa dasa started the new BTM for the BBT mail order department as seen today with label and announcement by Parama-rupa dasa. Having said that we have no problem restating this to any and all, that Pratyatosa dasa started a BTM before 1977.
And further to this point from an e-mail excerpt received from Pratyatosa about this specific issue.
From e-mail of
Thursday, February 24, 2005
PR; Yes, you
have told me before about your audio exploits (didn't know many details about
pre 1972 however) and about you using the name BTM... you sent me a photo of a
mic with BTM on it.
Prat; Really?
When? I don't remember. Must be getting senile. :)
PR; Since
noting your history those many years ago, I have always been careful to say that the BTM as we know it today, (with BTM label and my voice on the introduction) is the incarnation from 1977 on and not before.
Prat; Thank
you very much Prabhu. I appreciate that.
Once again Prabhu I’m writing this off the list so as not to make anyone feel embarrassed, but as an attempt to graciously move forward. We are extremely busy here working at what we have always dreamed of…. Finally, Archiving unencumbered by other peripheral matters.
I trust this answers a few of the items; I thank you for your time in this regard
Respectfully yours
Parama-rupa dasa
p.s I do not wish to be on any mailing lists… don’t take it personally as I don’t subscribe to any of the others either.
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/28f42d3751d2bd2c
... and:
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/7f75ba2b1424a4c5
... for my replies.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP
Fortunately, this problem has now been solved. Mother Nitya-trpta Prabhu is simply acting as secretary for the Archives. After all, that is her official board of directors title. As long as she gives proper credit (blame?) to whomever she is quoting, I see no problem. Do you?
She has been very careful to always name her source ever since we pointed out the problem. :-)
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
mark
Free will is always in play, and this thing is what it is because of
independent choices made up til now.
I will judge by the result. So far I see a run-around, but it APPEARS
you are being persuasive. If that appearance is reality, then
progress is being made. I am trying to be detached from the result,
so as to limit my offensiveness.
Thanks
ys
B.Mark
On Apr 8, 3:28 pm, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Bhakta Mark Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances.
> All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
> Fortunately, this problem has now been solved. Mother Nitya-trpta Prabhu is
> simply acting as secretary for the Archives. After all, that is her official
> board of directors title. As long as she gives proper credit (blame?) to
> whomever she is quoting, I see no problem. Do you?
>
> She has been very careful to always name her source ever since we pointed
> out the problem. :-)
>
> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
july9th
I have to agree with this.
If it is going to take another 30 years before the Archives consider
everything is ready to be released.
Then all us oldies are going to miss out on the nectar.
Not such a conscientious decision by the Archives.
Also consider the following ..
"There were a series of crisis a couple of them that I want to mention
really happened just before I became involved in ISKCON and the first
and major crisis was a crisis involving Kirtanananda this happened
towards the end of 1967. This is not in Prabhupada Lilamrta here is a
problem with writing history, Satsvarupa Maharaj, this was
Prabhupada's first major crisis when Kirtanananda, tried to take his
place, is really what happened in 1967. Then he left the movement and
Kirtanananda was the first and at that time the only sannyasi then.
And in many ways the most together devotee, in the early days, the
smartest the best educated, and he turned on Srila Prabhupada and it
was a major crisis.
It is not in the Lilamrta because when the Lilamrta was being written
Kirtanananda didn't want it in there, and he was at that time one of
the major acharyas and Satsvarupa Maharaj had no recourse but to bow
to this kind of pressure and leave it out. Similarly in Prabhupada
Lilamrta all the scandals of ISKCON are not discussed, first of all
it's not about ISKCON it's about Prabhupada so you don't have to tell
all those things. But it's the problem of writing history when people
are around, so some things are in there. What Prabhupada called the
fratricidal war 75/76 is in Prabhupada Lilamrta also, in some ways it
is soft pedaled." (Ravindra Swarupa TRUE HISTORY OF ISKCON 2)
It has happened in the past, information is not permitted because
these "people are around, so some things are in there".
On Apr 5, 6:22 am, Pratyatosa Dasa ACBSP <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mother Nitya-Trpta Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble
>
> actually written by Parama-rupa Prabhu!" Am I right?
>
> This is a typical Archives answer. Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! No Vaisnava
> humility whatsoever. "How dare you challenge us! Don't you know that we
> never make any mistakes? Don't you know that we are infallible, and that our
> motives are 100% pure? Just look at all the great service that we have done!
> Just look at how steady we are!" This just proves once again how insecure
> the Archives devotees are in their service to Srila Prabhupada. Always on
> the defensive. Any time that we try to tell them anything, the answer is
> always, "We already know everything! You can't tell us anything! We are
> perfect and complete! Don't bother us."
>
> You (Parama-rupa?) said:
>
> This is such a very great relief! But the fact still remains, the original
> tapes should have been 100% transferred to digital 15 years ago at the
> latest, but instead, Ekanatha was busy "building a house with his own
> hands."
>
> The fact that they have lasted longer than they normally do is Krishna's
> divine intervention. Krishna has always been very merciful upon us, and
> again, due to His causeless mercy, He has saved us! Thank you Krishna!
> However, let's not tempt fate any more than we already have!
>
> This brings me to my burning question #3:
> quality, unedited, unprocessed, lossless digital copies not being made
> This is especially important for the good quality tapes which are in
> unmarked boxes, because it would allow devotees from all over the world to
> be engaged in trying to identify the time and/or place of those recordings.
> We are not getting any younger! Time is of the essence!
>
> Please read all of the postings and follow all of the links at:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/3f8044...
>
> Have I not made my case? Ameyatma Prabhu agrees with
> Madhudvisa Prabhu agrees with
> me<http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/8bf83fd073425f3a>.
> case that I have tried to make. I even gave the example of the Detroit
> police officer in an email to Madhuha 2 years
> already doing everything." No mention whatsoever of my free internet
> download proposal. :-(
>
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Nitya-Trpta <nitya-trpta.ac...@pamho.net>wrote:
>
> > Dandavats,
> > Jai Srila Prabhupada!
>