SK281DEC29-2016:ID

54 views
Skip to first unread message

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Dec 29, 2016, 4:04:11 AM12/29/16
to efloraofindia, J.M. Garg
Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 
Altitude: 7000 ft.
Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju
DSC_0781.JPG
DSC_0782.JPG
DSC_0784.JPG
DSC_0786.JPG
DSC_0787.JPG
DSC_0788.JPG
DSC_0789.JPG
DSC_0790.JPG

D.S Rawat

unread,
Dec 29, 2016, 6:41:32 AM12/29/16
to efloraofindia, jmg...@gmail.com
Looks like some Elaeagnus species (Elaeagnaceae).
Elaeagnaceae in eFI.
DSRawat Pantnagar

J.M. Garg

unread,
Dec 29, 2016, 9:16:57 PM12/29/16
to D.S Rawat, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju

Thanks a lot,  Rawat ji

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Dec 30, 2016, 3:15:29 AM12/30/16
to J.M. Garg, D.S Rawat, efloraofindia
Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. (accepted name)   ???


Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

chrischa...@btinternet.com

unread,
Dec 31, 2016, 2:48:29 AM12/31/16
to efloraofindia, jmg...@gmail.com
I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is this E.parvifolia?

'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, E.parvifolia, out of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.

'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6 species in a key provided to distinguish between them!

Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?

The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowers of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the end of December does not tally with this.

The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki @ 1900m,
flowering November to January, local name 'Madilo'.  I cannot be certain as to the reliability of this identification.

This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further. 


There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometimes been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this species is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.

J.M. Garg

unread,
Dec 31, 2016, 11:32:30 PM12/31/16
to chrischa...@btinternet.com, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 1, 2017, 7:27:27 AM1/1/17
to J.M. Garg, C CHADWELL, efloraofindia
Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.


FoI
Autumn Olive   
Foto info
Autumn Olive
  
ative
Photo: Nidhan Singh
Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuriꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee 
Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagnaceae (Oleaster family)
Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia

Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.



Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 16, 2017, 1:15:17 AM1/16/17
to efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju, chrischa...@btinternet.com
As per comparative images at Elaeagnus, I find it more closer to Elaeagnus umbellata rather than Elaeagnus conferta

As per Images posted of Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle & Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. in efi, both look similar.
Flora of Pakistan only lists Elaeagnus umbellata with distribution as Japan, Assam, China, Afghanistan and the Himalayas from Kashmir to Bhutan. Flora of China also only lists this species with distribution as Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Japan, Korea, Nepal; naturalized in North America.
While Flora of Nepal only lists Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle with distribution as Afghanistan, Himalaya (Kashmir to Bhutan), Assam, W. China
In view, I have taken postings of both these plants as Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. 
If you think otherwise, pl. let me know. 
--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

DSC_0781.JPG
DSC_0782.JPG
DSC_0784.JPG
DSC_0786.JPG
DSC_0787.JPG
DSC_0788.JPG
DSC_0789.JPG
DSC_0790.JPG

C CHADWELL

unread,
Jan 22, 2017, 9:07:43 PM1/22/17
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this
is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are
found in Nepal:

E.caudata
E.infundibularis
E.kanaii
E.parvifolia
E.tricholepis

Needs looking into further.


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Monday, 16 January 2017, 6:15
Subject: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 24, 2017, 8:09:32 AM1/24/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.


On 23 Jan 2017 7:37 a.m., "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:
I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this
is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are
found in Nepal:

E.caudata
E.infundibularis
E.kanaii
E.parvifolia
E.tricholepis

Needs looking into further.


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

C CHADWELL

unread,
Jan 25, 2017, 3:23:40 PM1/25/17
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
I based my comments upon the treatment of Eleagnus within Flora of Bhutan,
Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal and Flora of Japan.

I have greater confidence in these than 'Flora of Pakistan' and Flora of China.

Yes, Stewart listed E.umbellata Thunb. based upon Hooker in FBI.  He gave
E.parvifolia Wall. ex Royle as a synonym.  He recorded it from N.Pakistan and
Kashmir @ 900-3000m incl. Tangmarg.

However, Flowers of the Himalaya has E.parvifolia with E.umbellata auct. non-Thunb.
as a synonym - this means E.umbellata NOT authored by Thunberg.

The Enumeration Vol 3 (1982) is consistent with the treatment in Flowers of the Himalaya.

Both give a distribution through to SW for this species.  The latter does NOT list E.umbellata Thunb.

As for Flora of Bhutan Vol 2 Part I (1992) this includes E.parvifolia Royle giving as a synonym
E.umbellata sensu FBI non Thunberg.

I also happen to have a copy of 'Flora of Japan' by J.Ohwi  (in English) published by the Smithsonian
Inst., Washington DC in 1984 - my 'heaviest' flora @ 3.4kg (28 x 22 x 8 cm).

This includes E.umbellata Thunb. - common & variable OFTEN CULTIVATED in Hokkaido, Honshu,
Shikoku & Kyushu - it does not mention it occurrence elsewhere.  3 varieties are given incl. var. hortensis.

You do get DIFFERENCES of interpretation amongst taxonomists.  Clearly Elaeagnus is not an easy genus
identification-wise.

I do not know if there has been a recent revision of the genus Elaeagnus?

I have seen examples of taxa in the NW Himalaya which were assigned to 'Japanese' species when
there had been a misunderstanding of nomenclature i.e. a species name used by more than one author.
I shall comment about this in a separate post.

IF, a world authority on Elaeagnus exists, their thoughts would be welcome.


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 25, 2017, 11:36:51 PM1/25/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
Thanks a lot, Saroj ji.

To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 25, 2017, 11:37:10 PM1/25/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.

To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 31, 2017, 10:23:28 AM1/31/17
to J.M. Garg, C CHADWELL, efloraofindia
31 January 2017 Same plant! 
No luck  !  Not a single fruit !
ID validation still pending !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:22 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
CSC_0863.JPG
CSC_0864.JPG
DSC_0787.JPG
DSC_0788.JPG
DSC_0789.JPG
DSC_0790.JPG

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 31, 2017, 10:24:25 AM1/31/17
to Saroj Kasaju, chrischa...@btinternet.com, efloraofindia

Thanks,  Saroj ji.
Nice images.

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 31, 2017, 10:24:55 AM1/31/17
to J.M. Garg, C CHADWELL, efloraofindia


Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju
DSC_0791.JPG
DSC_0793.JPG
DSC_0794.JPG

C CHADWELL

unread,
Jan 31, 2017, 12:32:21 PM1/31/17
to Saroj Kasaju, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Sometimes it is NOT POSSIBLE to fully identify plants beyond genus.  A proper
DETERMINATION cannot reliably be arrived at - for various reasons and thus
must simply be accepted as sp. ONLY.

In the future when a genus is revised well or someone with specialist knowledge
takes a look at the photos, they MIGHT be in a position to name it - though the
information provided by the photos may not be sufficient.

To name plants TOO speculatively is A MISTAKE and CAN ONLY LEAD TO
FURTHER CONFUSION.

However frustrating, this MUST be accepted.

IF somewhere like Kew receives either an INADEQUATE pressed specimen or
the genus is not well-known enough, they will either just put sp. or perhaps aff.
indicating "having affinities to" a particular species but NOT saying it belongs to
that species.

As I regularly state, plants are variable things and we CANNOT always NEATLY
pigeon-hole them into existing species.

To ACCEPT this situation is a sign not of incompetence but COMPETENCE.

A LOT of trouble is caused by too many guesses and speculations as to species
names - MANY images of plants on the internet both in cultivation and the wild
are MISIDENTIFIED.

As are a SIGNIFICANT proportion of those in Floras of different parts of the Indian
Himalaya.


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 31 January 2017, 15:23
Subject: [efloraofindia:262950] Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

31 January 2017 Same plant! 
No luck  !  Not a single fruit !
ID validation still pending !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:22 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.co m>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/xyId_8KtSL4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 31, 2017, 12:42:46 PM1/31/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, J.M. Garg
Agree !

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Mar 31, 2017, 1:05:05 PM3/31/17
to efloraofindia, J.M. Garg, C CHADWELL

SK281DEC29-2016:ID


Finally the fruits !

Same plant on 31 March 2017.

Would it help to close in to the correct ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Mail Delivery Subsystem <mailer...@google.com> wrote:
Hello Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>,

The message that you are sending is too large. All messages must be less than 8.00 MB.

If you have questions related to this or any other Google group, visit the Help Centre at https://groups.google.com/support/.

Thanks,

Google Groups



----- Original message -----

X-Received: by 10.99.98.194 with SMTP id w185mr2259096pgb.108.1490979657448;
        Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Received: from mail-qk0-x22d.google.com (mail-qk0-x22d.google.com. [2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f9si825671ywh.6.2017.03.31.10.00.52
        for <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
        Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:00:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kasaj...@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d;
Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of kasaj...@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kasajusaroj@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Received: by mail-qk0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id p22so71850468qka.3
        for <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to;
        bh=jW6Hsy5OCYsR809bKGomCrWLalM6YAw2ZCHewlCbJbs=;
        b=U3A09HIHUb282Pe1v7D0313yfkrrr+yct05AfB/GM+xkd++Vu87EG8CVOMvKhnv5T2
         k0i9wbPq77/1WPusyaCohnMkbKFlyLWsW/mkA8ySgBujWt4As8kRFJlFLks2se55Fu3t
         GxY+OwJXB9PRo3rPZ/9hpxrrgom5dzgJyQia0nuzZK/P8wjDk65CMsDQjP7pS9Ey/sSp
         stpuogn1OaNj73LTW3WSLaun0IUMmKpWDa4a418xAmxfxGuYowViAFH4tDPsILuZq1lh
         o/jJ/RukpLhrJeYpYsnyMasdhzUxEzzI6updUi3wq3HALEgFFZMmVseIrNPuYM9cd6eL
         PATg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
        h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date
         :message-id:subject:to;
        bh=jW6Hsy5OCYsR809bKGomCrWLalM6YAw2ZCHewlCbJbs=;
        b=MBxXPM7dJLuNpZwnJPAxtMnABhMy43QrGBoi4rnH7j3hOZuG+vYAmXl38h+THpkaHf
         3cN04CYGJBX12jw2wEDF+Fpkm6Dlk6HyEUTd++QigrE1QFHjxU+v0pahZgvqpOHsXw3a
         dOMUmOdbMSqeAHiIP6Up6BxcwYaNpP+ZVLOJkWcd0mGgZEpuJkdo3FPtzwBa9Rm8GgKV
         Hju+N+2MssXyAOPMJoG/P8vj+zGzE/Pjed4Kxa6kGVJDPkFExIoAEdRj6lQRfTUUL35s
         rSUI+S81AL/QLgZ1dLVI5Y8PpBh90rGfbdkO5DGV1gCycM2cnRzhYrPICQyqxNzBM36l
         6LGQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H09MWm5xS1jukkafHtbdipMKWAC5odeDESMTb1Z5ChL1R7U2PCeRDRM1lDtZVxk3hsSaiJFLbNOmNTlBA==
X-Received: by 10.233.223.6 with SMTP id t6mr1794978qkf.129.1490979651525;
 Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.200.39.185 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:00:49 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAEf=ytSaoD_kgqqRSx46eO2fVxXWY5xnghNp3JgkkW4y2...@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEf=ytT7a12AME8L9OTYMvQkHGufqpJ6z8nBUZsDYLz9TLCF5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+iuSFDX4JKgp6528D+5wXaXZs4SLD0ADEXYogc0KLy0=BZWbw...@mail.gmail.com>
 <1870801740.18034558.148513...@mail.yahoo.com> <CA+iuSFAYqjYAMTW8B2Q2EGmR9NwC-yeuTY7vpDt4LX0zRrMFaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <512786004.22190467.148537...@mail.yahoo.com> <CA+iuSFCooF+0Gbo-rKtcuZZokRZCOTFh83HgWyRqyCEXhc02...@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEf=ytStxPJaiE+cNrr_xsQXUb_kXsuSkkwZK+XUHXQTtnnLvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1710906674.28705901.148588...@mail.yahoo.com> <CAEf=ytSaoD_kgqqRSx46eO2fVxXWY5xnghNp3JgkkW4y2...@mail.gmail.com>
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 22:45:49 +0545
Message-ID: <CAEf=ytS37z-HxP4EpHFrVHGgtiVpHxtrw13=BQ-Y0L3N...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:262950] Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>,
        C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=94eb2c043ae6800a6a054c09c047

--94eb2c043ae6800a6a054c09c047
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c043ae6800a64054c09c045

--94eb2c043ae6800a64054c09c045
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Finally the fruits !

Same plant on 31 March 2017.

Would it help to close in to the correct ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Forwarded conversation
Subject: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
------------------------


From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 2:48 PM
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <
jmg...@gmail.com>


Dear members

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal
Altitude: 7000 ft.
Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 8:01 AM
To: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <
kasaj...@gmail.com>



Thanks a lot,  Rawat ji

On 29 Dec 2016 5:11 p.m., "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like some Elaeagnus species (Elaeagnaceae).
> Elaeagnaceae in eFI.

>

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:00 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <
indian...@googlegroups.com>


*Elaeagnus parvifolia *Wall. (accepted name)   ???

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=3D110&taxon_id=3D242319791 =
 ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM
To: chrischadwell261@btinternet.com
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <
kasaj...@gmail.com>



Thanks,  Chadwell ji

On 31 Dec 2016 1:18 p.m., "chrischadwell261@btinternet.com" <
chrischadwell261@btinternet.com> wrote:

> I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I
> myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is
> this E.parvifolia?
>
> 'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, *E.parvifolia*, out

> of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.
>
> 'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6
> species in a key provided to distinguish between them!
>
> Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are
> recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?
>
> *The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that
> this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowe=
rs

> of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the
> end of December does not tally with this.*

>
> The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only
> lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki =
@
> 1900m,
> flowering November to January, local name '*Madilo*'.  *I cannot be
> certain as to the reliability of this identification.*
>
> *This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further.
> *

>
>
> There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering
> Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometime=
s

> been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require
> confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this specie=
s
> is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the
> entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.
>

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:12 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <
indian...@googlegroups.com>



Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about
the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosi
----- Message truncated -----

DSC_0738.JPG
DSC_0739.JPG
DSC_0740.JPG
DSC_0741.JPG
DSC_0742.JPG
DSC_0743.JPG

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Apr 1, 2017, 1:30:37 PM4/1/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, J.M. Garg
All efforts in vain 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:09 AM, C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com> wrote:
No, if you read my previous, extensive comments.

Unless we have access to a specialist in this genus or a proper
revision is undertaken, uncertainty will remain.

That is how it is for quite a number of genera/taxa. 


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017, 18:01
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:262950] Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Finally the fruits !

Same plant on 31 March 2017.

Would it help to close in to the correct ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Forwarded conversation
Subject: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
------------------------

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 2:48 PM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 
Altitude: 7000 ft.
Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 8:01 AM
To: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks a lot,  Rawat ji
On 29 Dec 2016 5:11 p.m., "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks like some Elaeagnus species (Elaeagnaceae).
Elaeagnaceae in eFI.
DSRawat Pantnagar

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:00 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Cc: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. (accepted name)   ???


Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM
To: chrischa...@btinternet.com
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks,  Chadwell ji

I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is this E.parvifolia?

'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, E.parvifolia, out of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.

'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6 species in a key provided to distinguish between them!

Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?

The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowers of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the end of December does not tally with this.

The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki @ 1900m,
flowering November to January, local name 'Madilo'.  I cannot be certain as to the reliability of this identification.

This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further. 

There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometimes been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this species is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:12 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>


Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.


ative
Photo: Nidhan Singh
Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuriꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee 
Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagna ceae (Oleaster family)

Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia

Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.



Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 5:28 AM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks for this.

Will return to look at Elaeagnus again in the future.


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com>; efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>
Sent: Sunday, 1 January 2017, 12:27
Subject: Re: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.


ative
Photo: Nidhan Singh
Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuriꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee 
Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagna ceae (Oleaster family)

Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia

Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.



Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks,  Chadwell ji

I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is this E.parvifolia?

'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, E.parvifolia, out of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.

'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6 species in a key provided to distinguish between them!

Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?

The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowers of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the end of December does not tally with this.

The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki @ 1900m,
flowering November to January, local name 'Madilo'.  I cannot be certain as to the reliability of this identification.

This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further. 

There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometimes been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this species is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.


On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 9:04:11 AM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:
Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 
Altitude: 7000 ft.
Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju




----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:00 PM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, chrischa...@btinternet.com


As per comparative images at Elaeagnus, I find it more closer to Elaeagnus umbellata rather than Elaeagnus conferta

As per Images posted of Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle & Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. in efi, both look similar.
Flora of Pakistan only lists Elaeagnus umbellata with distribution as Japan, Assam, China, Afghanistan and the Himalayas from Kashmir to Bhutan. Flora of China also only lists this species with distribution as Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Japan, Korea, Nepal; naturalized in North America.
While Flora of Nepal only lists Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle with distribution as Afghanistan, Himalaya (Kashmir to Bhutan), Assam, W. China
In view, I have taken postings of both these plants as Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. 
If you think otherwise, pl. let me know. 
--
With regards,
J.M.Garg
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:49 PM
To: Maan Rokaya <rokay...@gmail.com>



Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 10:15 PM
Subject: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>


----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 7:52 AM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this
is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are
found in Nepal:

E.caudata
E.infundibularis
E.kanaii
E.parvifolia
E.tricholepis

Needs looking into further.


Best Wishes,


Chris Chadwell


81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK








From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet. com
Sent: Monday, 16 January 2017, 6:15
Subject: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 6:54 PM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:21 PM
To: Maan Rokaya <rokay...@gmail.com>


Any idea ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 2:08 AM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>


Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 
Altitude: 7000 ft.
Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju



--
With regards,
J.M.Garg
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.





----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:21 AM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks a lot, Saroj ji.

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:22 AM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>


Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:08 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


31 January 2017 Same plant! 
No luck  !  Not a single fruit !
ID validation still pending !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:09 PM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Cc: chrischa...@btinternet.com, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


Thanks,  Saroj ji.
Nice images.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:09 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>




Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:17 PM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>



Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.co m>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ topic/indiantreepix/xyId_ 8KtSL4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@ googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com .
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/ group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ optout.



----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:27 PM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>


Agree !





Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Dec 20, 2017, 7:23:15 AM12/20/17
to C CHADWELL, efloraofindia, J.M. Garg
Elaeagnus conferta Roxb. ??

Same plant !

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal  
Date: 12 December 2017
Altitude: 6800 ft.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

...

[Message clipped]  

DSC_0213.JPG
DSC_0214.JPG
DSC_0216.JPG
DSC_0217.JPG
DSC_0218.JPG
DSC_0219.JPG
DSC_0220.JPG

J.M. Garg

unread,
Dec 20, 2017, 11:53:25 PM12/20/17
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraofindia
Thanks, Saroj ji. 

...

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 4, 2018, 2:06:44 AM1/4/18
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraofindia
I have taken your post as Elaeagnus parvifolia in view of Chadwell ji comments in this thread.
With regards,
J.M.Garg

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 4, 2018, 1:22:47 PM1/4/18
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju
_DSC0812.JPG
_DSC0813.JPG

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 15, 2018, 5:31:43 AM1/15/18
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraofindia
Thanks, Saroj ji.
When was this published ?
What is its reliability vis-a-vis Checklist of Nepal ?

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Jan 15, 2018, 9:39:50 AM1/15/18
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Published by Medicinal Plants Dept, Nepal Government 
in 1986.  Cannot confirm since I am not an expert.
Sorry!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

J.M. Garg

unread,
Jan 15, 2018, 7:01:22 PM1/15/18
to Saroj Kasaju, efloraofindia
Thanks, Saroj ji. 

...

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Feb 18, 2018, 12:40:22 PM2/18/18
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
ID still not validated !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Saroj Kasaju

unread,
Apr 9, 2018, 10:53:20 AM4/9/18
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Location:  Nagarkot, Nepal  
Date: 2 April 2018
Altitude: 6800 ft.
Habit: Wild

Can we decide the ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

...

[Message clipped]  

_DSC0802.JPG