SK281DEC29-2016:ID

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[D.S Rawat]

Looks like some Elaeagnus species (Elaeagnaceae).
Elaeagnaceae in eFI.
DSRawat Pantnagar

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot,  Rawat ji

[Saroj Kasaju]

Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. (accepted name)   ???

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242319791  ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is this E.parvifolia?

'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, E.parvifolia, out of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.

'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6 species in a key provided to distinguish between them!

Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?

The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowers of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the end of December does not tally with this.

The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki @ 1900m,

flowering November to January, local name 'Madilo'.  I cannot be certain as to the reliability of this identification.

This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further. 

There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometimes been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this species is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=111375

Autumn Olive

Tell a friend about this flower!

ative Photo: Nidhan Singh Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuri: ꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee  Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagnaceae (Oleaster family) Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

[J.M. Garg]

As per comparative images at Elaeagnus, I find it more closer to Elaeagnus umbellata rather than Elaeagnus conferta

As per Images posted of Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle & Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. in efi, both look similar.

Flora of Pakistan only lists Elaeagnus umbellata with distribution as Japan, Assam, China, Afghanistan and the Himalayas from Kashmir to Bhutan. Flora of China also only lists this species with distribution as Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Japan, Korea, Nepal; naturalized in North America.

While Flora of Nepal only lists Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle with distribution as Afghanistan, Himalaya (Kashmir to Bhutan), Assam, W. China
In view, I have taken postings of both these plants as Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. 

If you think otherwise, pl. let me know. 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

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Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[C CHADWELL]

I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this

is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are

found in Nepal:

E.caudata

E.infundibularis

E.kanaii

E.parvifolia

E.tricholepis

Needs looking into further.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Monday, 16 January 2017, 6:15
Subject: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

On 23 Jan 2017 7:37 a.m., "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this

is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are

found in Nepal:

E.caudata

E.infundibularis

E.kanaii

E.parvifolia

E.tricholepis

Needs looking into further.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet.com

[C CHADWELL]

I based my comments upon the treatment of Eleagnus within Flora of Bhutan,

Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal and Flora of Japan.

I have greater confidence in these than 'Flora of Pakistan' and Flora of China.

Yes, Stewart listed E.umbellata Thunb. based upon Hooker in FBI.  He gave

E.parvifolia Wall. ex Royle as a synonym.  He recorded it from N.Pakistan and

Kashmir @ 900-3000m incl. Tangmarg.

However, Flowers of the Himalaya has E.parvifolia with E.umbellata auct. non-Thunb.

as a synonym - this means E.umbellata NOT authored by Thunberg.

The Enumeration Vol 3 (1982) is consistent with the treatment in Flowers of the Himalaya.

Both give a distribution through to SW for this species.  The latter does NOT list E.umbellata Thunb.

As for Flora of Bhutan Vol 2 Part I (1992) this includes E.parvifolia Royle giving as a synonym

E.umbellata sensu FBI non Thunberg.

I also happen to have a copy of 'Flora of Japan' by J.Ohwi  (in English) published by the Smithsonian

Inst., Washington DC in 1984 - my 'heaviest' flora @ 3.4kg (28 x 22 x 8 cm).

This includes E.umbellata Thunb. - common & variable OFTEN CULTIVATED in Hokkaido, Honshu,

Shikoku & Kyushu - it does not mention it occurrence elsewhere.  3 varieties are given incl. var. hortensis.

You do get DIFFERENCES of interpretation amongst taxonomists.  Clearly Elaeagnus is not an easy genus

identification-wise.

I do not know if there has been a recent revision of the genus Elaeagnus?

I have seen examples of taxa in the NW Himalaya which were assigned to 'Japanese' species when

there had been a misunderstanding of nomenclature i.e. a species name used by more than one author.

I shall comment about this in a separate post.

IF, a world authority on Elaeagnus exists, their thoughts would be welcome.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Saroj ji.

To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.

To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

[Saroj Kasaju]

31 January 2017 Same plant! 

No luck  !  Not a single fruit !

ID validation still pending !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:22 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.

Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks,  Saroj ji.
Nice images.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[C CHADWELL]

Sometimes it is NOT POSSIBLE to fully identify plants beyond genus.  A proper

DETERMINATION cannot reliably be arrived at - for various reasons and thus

must simply be accepted as sp. ONLY.

In the future when a genus is revised well or someone with specialist knowledge

takes a look at the photos, they MIGHT be in a position to name it - though the

information provided by the photos may not be sufficient.

To name plants TOO speculatively is A MISTAKE and CAN ONLY LEAD TO

FURTHER CONFUSION.

However frustrating, this MUST be accepted.

IF somewhere like Kew receives either an INADEQUATE pressed specimen or

the genus is not well-known enough, they will either just put sp. or perhaps aff.

indicating "having affinities to" a particular species but NOT saying it belongs to

that species.

As I regularly state, plants are variable things and we CANNOT always NEATLY

pigeon-hole them into existing species.

To ACCEPT this situation is a sign not of incompetence but COMPETENCE.

A LOT of trouble is caused by too many guesses and speculations as to species

names - MANY images of plants on the internet both in cultivation and the wild

are MISIDENTIFIED.

As are a SIGNIFICANT proportion of those in Floras of different parts of the Indian

Himalaya.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 31 January 2017, 15:23
Subject: [efloraofindia:262950] Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

31 January 2017 Same plant! 

No luck  !  Not a single fruit !

ID validation still pending !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:22 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.

Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.co m>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Agree !

Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Saroj Kasaju]

SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Finally the fruits !

Same plant on 31 March 2017.

Would it help to close in to the correct ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:262950] Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>,
        C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
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Finally the fruits !

Same plant on 31 March 2017.

Would it help to close in to the correct ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Forwarded conversation
Subject: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
------------------------

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 2:48 PM
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <
jmg...@gmail.com>


Dear members

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal
Altitude: 7000 ft.
Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 8:01 AM
To: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <
kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks a lot,  Rawat ji

On 29 Dec 2016 5:11 p.m., "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like some Elaeagnus species (Elaeagnaceae).
> Elaeagnaceae in eFI.

> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/e/elaeagnaceae=
/elaeagnus>
> DSRawat Pantnagar

>

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:00 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <
indian...@googlegroups.com>


*Elaeagnus parvifolia *Wall. (accepted name)   ???

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=3D110&taxon_id=3D242319791 =

 ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM
To: chrischadwell261@btinternet.com
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <
kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

On 31 Dec 2016 1:18 p.m., "chrischadwell261@btinternet.com" <
chrischadwell261@btinternet.com> wrote:

> I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I
> myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is
> this E.parvifolia?
>

> 'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, *E.parvifolia*, out

> of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.
>
> 'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6
> species in a key provided to distinguish between them!
>
> Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are
> recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?
>

> *The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that
> this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowe=
rs

> of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the

> end of December does not tally with this.*

>
> The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only

> lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki =
@
> 1900m,
> flowering November to January, local name '*Madilo*'.  *I cannot be
> certain as to the reliability of this identification.*
>
> *This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further.
> *

>
>
> There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering

> Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometime=
s

> been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require

> confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this specie=
s

> is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the
> entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.
>

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:12 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <
indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about
the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosi

----- Message truncated -----

[Saroj Kasaju]

All efforts in vain 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:09 AM, C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com> wrote:

No, if you read my previous, extensive comments.

Unless we have access to a specialist in this genus or a proper

revision is undertaken, uncertainty will remain.

That is how it is for quite a number of genera/taxa. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017, 18:01
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:262950] Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Finally the fruits !

Same plant on 31 March 2017.

Would it help to close in to the correct ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Forwarded conversation
Subject: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
------------------------

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 2:48 PM

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 8:01 AM
To: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>

Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks a lot,  Rawat ji

On 29 Dec 2016 5:11 p.m., "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like some Elaeagnus species (Elaeagnaceae).
Elaeagnaceae in eFI.

DSRawat Pantnagar

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:00 PM

To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Cc: "D.S Rawat" <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. (accepted name)   ???

http://www.efloras.org/ florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110& taxon_id=242319791  ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM

To: chrischa...@btinternet.com
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

On 31 Dec 2016 1:18 p.m., "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is this E.parvifolia?

'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, E.parvifolia, out of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.

'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6 species in a key provided to distinguish between them!

Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?

The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowers of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the end of December does not tally with this.

The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki @ 1900m,

flowering November to January, local name 'Madilo'.  I cannot be certain as to the reliability of this identification.

This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further. 

There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometimes been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this species is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:12 PM

To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.

http://www.efloras.org/ florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110& taxon_id=111375

Autumn Olive

Tell a friend about this flower!

ative Photo: Nidhan Singh Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuri: ꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee

Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagna ceae (Oleaster family)

Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 5:28 AM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks for this.

Will return to look at Elaeagnus again in the future.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com>; efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>

Sent: Sunday, 1 January 2017, 12:27
Subject: Re: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.

http://www.efloras.org/ florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110& taxon_id=111375

Autumn Olive

Tell a friend about this flower!

ative Photo: Nidhan Singh Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuri: ꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee

Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagna ceae (Oleaster family)

Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 10:17 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks,  Chadwell ji

On 31 Dec 2016 1:18 p.m., "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote:

I am pleased to view these good images of an Elaeagnus in flower.  I myself have only ever come across Elaeagnus at the fruiting stage. But is this E.parvifolia?

'Flowers of the Himalaya' only describe one species, E.parvifolia, out of 6 recorded from the region, so it is likely this is over-recorded.

'Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal' lists 5 species yet has 6 species in a key provided to distinguish between them!

Of these, E.infundibularis, E.kanaii, E.parvifolia & E.tricholepis are recorded from suitable elevations.  And perhaps E.conferta?

The first major problem with the specimen being E.parvifolia is that this, according to the 'Enumeration' flowers in the spring (whilst 'Flowers of the Himalaya' says spring to early summer).  A plant in flower at the end of December does not tally with this.

The second consideration is that 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' (1986) only lists E.conferta Roxb. - which was recorded below Godawari and Phulchoki @ 1900m,

flowering November to January, local name 'Madilo'.  I cannot be certain as to the reliability of this identification.

This and the genus as a whole along the Himalaya needs checking further. 

There are keys in both the 'Enumeration' and 'Flora of Bhutan' (covering Bhutan & Sikkim).  In the latter it says the name E.conferta has sometimes been misapplied to E.caudata such that literature records require confirmation.  E.conferta Roxb. in Bhutan and Darjeeling such this species is from terai and foothills i.e. well below 1900m.   Unfortunately, the entry for this species is missing within the 'Enumeration'.

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 9:04:11 AM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:00 PM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, chrischa...@btinternet.com

As per comparative images at Elaeagnus, I find it more closer to Elaeagnus umbellata rather than Elaeagnus conferta

As per Images posted of Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle & Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. in efi, both look similar.

Flora of Pakistan only lists Elaeagnus umbellata with distribution as Japan, Assam, China, Afghanistan and the Himalayas from Kashmir to Bhutan. Flora of China also only lists this species with distribution as Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Japan, Korea, Nepal; naturalized in North America.

While Flora of Nepal only lists Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. ex Royle with distribution as Afghanistan, Himalaya (Kashmir to Bhutan), Assam, W. China
In view, I have taken postings of both these plants as Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. 

If you think otherwise, pl. let me know. 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:49 PM
To: Maan Rokaya <rokay...@gmail.com>

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 10:15 PM
Subject: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 7:52 AM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this

is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are

found in Nepal:

E.caudata

E.infundibularis

E.kanaii

E.parvifolia

E.tricholepis

Needs looking into further.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet. com

Sent: Monday, 16 January 2017, 6:15
Subject: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 6:54 PM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:21 PM
To: Maan Rokaya <rokay...@gmail.com>

Any idea ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 2:08 AM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:21 AM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks a lot, Saroj ji.

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:22 AM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:08 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

31 January 2017 Same plant! 

No luck  !  Not a single fruit !

ID validation still pending !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:09 PM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Cc: chrischa...@btinternet.com, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Thanks,  Saroj ji.
Nice images.

----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:09 PM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------

From: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:17 PM
To: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.co m>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2017, 13:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

Thanks,  Chadwell ji.
Both Flora of Pakistan and Flora of China list it.

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----------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:27 PM
To: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Agree !

[Saroj Kasaju]

Elaeagnus conferta Roxb. ??

Same plant !

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal  

Date: 12 December 2017

Altitude: 6800 ft.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

...

[Message clipped]  

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji. 

...

[J.M. Garg]

I have taken your post as Elaeagnus parvifolia in view of Chadwell ji comments in this thread.

With regards,
J.M.Garg

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Mr. Garg,

Initially I also guessed it as Elaeagnus parvifolia Wall. but after going

through the pages of the Flora of Kathmandu Valley it seems closer

to the Elaeagnus conferta Roxb. based on the brown spots/scales on the 

outer surface of petals and underneath the leaves.

Your opinion please !

https://www.google.com.np/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwil8pKk877YAhXHQo8KHdVHD0kQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwikivisually.com%2Flang-de%2Fwiki%2F%25C3%2596lweiden&psig=AOvVaw1bzTl6ZTbo6th-87ei54Cm&ust=1515175636947599

https://www.google.com.np/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiRzdf09b7YAhWHsY8KHYPODZYQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikiwand.com%2Fsv%2FElaeagnus_conferta&psig=AOvVaw3oSc8DSr1wtZ983VTeruDd&ust=1515176348383703

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji.

When was this published ?

What is its reliability vis-a-vis Checklist of Nepal ?

[Saroj Kasaju]

Published by Medicinal Plants Dept, Nepal Government 

in 1986.  Cannot confirm since I am not an expert.

Sorry!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji. 

...

[Saroj Kasaju]

ID still not validated !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Location:  Nagarkot, Nepal  

Date: 2 April 2018

Altitude: 6800 ft.

Habit: Wild

Can we decide the ID ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

...

[Message clipped]  

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji, for additional images. 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thanks, Saroj ji. 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

All efforts in vain 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------

Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.

http://www.efloras.org/ florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110& taxon_id=111375

Autumn Olive

Tell a friend about this flower!

ative Photo: Nidhan Singh Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuri: ꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee  Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagna ceae (Oleaster family) Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------

From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

To: efloraofindia <<a href="mailto:indiantreepix@

[J.M. Garg]

I have kept it at Elaeagnus conferta

With regards,
J.M.Garg

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2975 members & 2,90,000 messages on 31.3.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images).

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Garg !

Nepali Name: मदिलो Madilo 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Ripe fruits and seed for further validation from same location 

on 16 May 2019.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thanks, Saroj ji. 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

All efforts in vain 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

----------

Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information. However, I am also not sure about the correct ID of the plant. I am enclosing the link showing the listing.

http://www.efloras.org/ florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110& taxon_id=111375

Autumn Olive

Tell a friend about this flower!

ative Photo: Nidhan Singh Common name: Autumn Olive • Hindi: Giwain, Kankal • Manipuri: ꯍꯩꯌꯥꯢ হৈযাঈ Heiyai • Nepali: गुएली Guenlee  Botanical name:  Elaeagnus parvifolia    Family: Elaeagna ceae (Oleaster family) Synonyms: Elaeagnus umbellata var. parvifolia, Elaeagnus salicifolia Autumn Olive is a small tree or shrub, often spiny. The small white (fading to yellow) flowers have a sickly-sweet aroma. The leaves are densely covered with silvery scales beneath and have scattered silvery scales above. The petioles and young branchlets are also covered with silvery scales. Leaves are 2-9 cm long, 0.8-3 cm broad, elliptic-oblong to oblong-lanceolate, blunt ot pointed, dull green above, with peltate and stellate hairs, lower surface sometimes with ferruginous scales. Leaf-stalks are 2-6 mm long. Fruit is 8-9 mm long, elliptic-ovoid, succulent, covered with scales when young, endocarp not hard, 8-ribbed, woolly within. Autumn Olive is found in the Himalayas, from Kashmir to Bhutan, Assam and W. China, at altitudes of 1300-3000 m.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>

From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>

Date: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 7:52 AM
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>, efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

I cannot agree that the specimen you photographed is Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb. - as far as I know this

is NOT found anywhere in the Himalaya but thickets & thin woods in lowlands and hills in Japan!

Elaeagnus is not an easy genus.

According to the Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal 7 taxa belonging to 5 species are

found in Nepal:

E.caudata

E.infundibularis

...

[Message clipped]  

[J.M. Garg]

Corolla tube looks different from images at Elaeagnus conferta

Following keys in Flora of Bhutan at Elaeagnus‎, I think it is Elaeagnus infundibularis (closely related to E. parvifolia) as per

GBIF  High resolution specimen

All your posts in this thread are of this species only.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 at 14:33
Subject: SK281DEC29-2016:ID

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 1,70,000 images are directly displayed).

[Saroj Kasaju]

May be Mr. Garg! By the way E. conferta is recorded in the Kathmandu Valley !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji,

E.conferta is not mentioned in Checklist of Nepal.

So it is quite possible that High resolution specimen (1995), I mentioned earlier for identification as Elaeagnus infundibularis, is wrongly identified.

On further checking with Type specimen of Elaeagnus infundibularis in GBIF, flowers appears to be tubular and smaller in this species.

On checking with illustration in Flora Mesiana, your post matches with E.conferta.

Also find descriptions in Flora Mesiana and Flora of China, matching with your post.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Garg !

By the way POWO is also showing its distribution in Nepal!

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kasaju]

Elaeagnus conferta Roxb.

POWO showing distribution in Nepal ! And some more book exerpts.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

--

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji 

--
With regards,
J. M. Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Elaeagnus infundibularis as per SK 2419 30 January 2020

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 at 14:33
Subject: SK281DEC29-2016:ID
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear members 

Location: Nagarkot, Nepal 

Altitude: 7000 ft.

Date: 28 December 2016

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Garg !

Saroj Kasaju