Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24

[Gurcharan Singh]

Another species of Kashmir, very common at low altitudes around Srinagar. Pl. help in ID

--

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[Nidhan Singh]

Dear Sir,

Cannot help in id, yet I am surprised to find a similar looking species from my place in Kaithal..I will share soon..

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Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh

Assistant Professor
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world): http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2085 members & 1,50,000 messages on 31/3/13) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 8000 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Cannot help in id, yet I am surprised to find a similar looking species from my place in Kaithal..I will share soon..

-- Regards, Dr. Nidhan Singh

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Date: 3 April 2013 16:47
Subject: [efloraofindia:150626] Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Date: 3 April 2013 at 16:47
Subject: [efloraofindia:150626] Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Carex is a large and difficult genus.  I photographed 3 Carex in my own village in the UK this year and have only, so far, been able to name one of them.  There is a guide to Carex published by the BSBI which I had a copy of at one time but was damaged and discarded; I do not currently have the budget to by an up-dated version.  Without it I will struggle (with help) to name the other two.

 

In the UK we are blessed with The Botanical Society of the British Isles (BSBI) which has a Panel of Referees and Specialists available to have material sent to them to identify.  There are a number of specialists available to accept specimens (either pressed and dried or in some cases fresh) with certain ones with particular expertise in particular groups or aggregates.  In all cases mature fruits and underground parts should be sent.  I doubt if many of them would be able or willing to attempt to name specimens on the basis of photos alone particular those not of greater close-ups or mature fruits than shown in these images.

These images are of immature flowers which make things more difficult.  Just a thought, Stewart gives Carex psychrophila as common in Srinagar (and Gulmarg, Khelanmarg, Pahlgam, Sonamarg @ 1800-3300m.  Can this be checked further/eliminated?  Unfortunately, it is not an accepted species in 'The Plant List'

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji,

Carex psychrophila Nees is an accepted name both as per The Plant List Ver. 1.1 & Catalogue of Life

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[C CHADWELL]

Thanks for checking.  So Carex psychrophila remains a possibility.  As the images are of young flowers only and mature fruits are generally required to be certain of an identification, then unless we have a specialist, familiar with the genus in Kashmir, then it may be impossible for us to proceed further.  Perhaps a member in Kashmir or visiting Kashmir can take good close-ups of the mature fruits of this plant and send us?

I note the following publication but do not have a copy: 

Haq, E. U., G. H. Dar, B. A. Wafai and Jacob Koopman.

The Genus Carex L. (Cyperaceae) in the Kashmir Himalaya, India: A Taxonomic Appraisal. Bishen Singh Mahendra Pal Singh, Dehra Dun. (In press).

Perhaps someone who has a copy can consult this and see if it helps us?

Is Jacob Koopman a member of this group, as he is a Carex specialist when I am a beginner and this is not an easy genus?  Or could forward the images to request his input with this and indeed other Carex (and Cyperaceae) from Kashmir?

Makes sense if I concentrate my strictly limited time, energy & powers of concentration on genera and families where no specialists exist especially if they are not familiar with Himalayan species.  In some cases such specialists are not available.

With attempting to identify plants, one can easily spend hours (or even days or weeks) trying and then not being any the wiser afterwards.  There is a "law of diminishing returns" i.e. in some cases the only sensible course of action is to put to a side the specimens/photos and return to them at a later date.   Sometimes, just a 'fresh' look, days, weeks or months later is sufficient.

I e.g. identified sets of photos taken in Ladakh last year.  For some images I was uncertain with species the belonged to (but knew the genus) and for a few which family but not the genus, as a result of checking out images posted on eFI which I have checked in recent months, I can now name the 'outstanding' images from 2015.

And the more difficult example require a lot of concentration which one cannot always provide if tired or busy concentrating on other matters.  If one tries to name a plant in such circumstances, rushes this and does not check properly, mistakes are made and misidentifications are made.

Attempting to RELIABLY identify plants can be very demanding intellectually and mentally exhausting.  I am usually very tried, indeed exhausted after spending a day in a herbarium.  I do not think this is appreciated, especially in these days of "high-tech" science - just as "field skills" are often not valued in botany. 

  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: "chrischa...@btinternet.com" <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2016, 10:51
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257590] Re: Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24

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[C CHADWELL]

Thanks for checking.  So Carex psychrophila remains a possibility.  As the images are of young flowers only and mature fruits are generally required to be certain of an identification, then unless we have a specialist, familiar with the genus in Kashmir, then it may be impossible for us to proceed further.  Perhaps a member in Kashmir or visiting Kashmir can take good close-ups of the mature fruits of this plant and send us?

I note the following publication but do not have a copy: 

Haq, E. U., G. H. Dar, B. A. Wafai and Jacob Koopman.

The Genus Carex L. (Cyperaceae) in the Kashmir Himalaya, India: A Taxonomic Appraisal. Bishen Singh Mahendra Pal Singh, Dehra Dun. (In press).

Perhaps someone who has a copy can consult this and see if it helps us?

Is Jacob Koopman a member of this group, as he is a Carex specialist when I am a beginner and this is not an easy genus?  Or could forward the images to request his input with this and indeed other Carex (and Cyperaceae) from Kashmir?

Makes sense if I concentrate my strictly limited time, energy & powers of concentration on genera and families where no specialists exist especially if they are not familiar with Himalayan species.  In some cases such specialists are not available.

With attempting to identify plants, one can easily spend hours (or even days or weeks) trying and then not being any the wiser afterwards.  There is a "law of diminishing returns" i.e. in some cases the only sensible course of action is to put to a side the specimens/photos and return to them at a later date.   Sometimes, just a 'fresh' look, days, weeks or months later is sufficient.

I e.g. identified sets of photos taken in Ladakh last year.  For some images I was uncertain with species the belonged to (but knew the genus) and for a few which family but not the genus, as a result of checking out images posted on eFI which I have checked in recent months, I can now name the 'outstanding' images from 2015.

And the more difficult example require a lot of concentration which one cannot always provide if tired or busy concentrating on other matters.  If one tries to name a plant in such circumstances, rushes this and does not check properly, mistakes are made and misidentifications are made.

Attempting to RELIABLY identify plants can be very demanding intellectually and mentally exhausting.  I am usually very tried, indeed exhausted after spending a day in a herbarium.  I do not think this is appreciated, especially in these days of "high-tech" science - just as "field skills" are often not valued in botany. 

   

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: "chrischa...@btinternet.com" <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2016, 10:51
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257590] Re: Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24

Thanks, Chadwell ji,

Carex psychrophila Nees is an accepted name both as per The Plant List Ver. 1.1 & Catalogue of Life

On 15 November 2016 at 11:12, chrischa...@btinternet.com <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Carex is a large and difficult genus.  I photographed 3 Carex in my own village in the UK this year and have only, so far, been able to name one of them.  There is a guide to Carex published by the BSBI which I had a copy of at one time but was damaged and discarded; I do not currently have the budget to by an up-dated version.  Without it I will struggle (with help) to name the other two.

 

In the UK we are blessed with The Botanical Society of the British Isles (BSBI) which has a Panel of Referees and Specialists available to have material sent to them to identify.  There are a number of specialists available to accept specimens (either pressed and dried or in some cases fresh) with certain ones with particular expertise in particular groups or aggregates.  In all cases mature fruits and underground parts should be sent.  I doubt if many of them would be able or willing to attempt to name specimens on the basis of photos alone particular those not of greater close-ups or mature fruits than shown in these images.

These images are of immature flowers which make things more difficult.  Just a thought, Stewart gives Carex psychrophila as common in Srinagar (and Gulmarg, Khelanmarg, Pahlgam, Sonamarg @ 1800-3300m.  Can this be checked further/eliminated?  Unfortunately, it is not an accepted species in 'The Plant List'

On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 at 12:17:08 PM UTC+1, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

Another species of Kashmir, very common at low altitudes around Srinagar. Pl. help in ID

--

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com / 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg 45/

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--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

--

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 24 Nov 2016 8:09 pm, "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Thanks for checking.  So Carex psychrophila remains a possibility.  As the images are of young flowers only and mature fruits are generally required to be certain of an identification, then unless we have a specialist, familiar with the genus in Kashmir, then it may be impossible for us to proceed further.  Perhaps a member in Kashmir or visiting Kashmir can take good close-ups of the mature fruits of this plant and send us?

I note the following publication but do not have a copy: 

Haq, E. U., G. H. Dar, B. A. Wafai and Jacob Koopman.

The Genus Carex L. (Cyperaceae) in the Kashmir Himalaya, India: A Taxonomic Appraisal. Bishen Singh Mahendra Pal Singh, Dehra Dun. (In press).

Perhaps someone who has a copy can consult this and see if it helps us?

Is Jacob Koopman a member of this group, as he is a Carex specialist when I am a beginner and this is not an easy genus?  Or could forward the images to request his input with this and indeed other Carex (and Cyperaceae) from Kashmir?

Makes sense if I concentrate my strictly limited time, energy & powers of concentration on genera and families where no specialists exist especially if they are not familiar with Himalayan species.  In some cases such specialists are not available.

With attempting to identify plants, one can easily spend hours (or even days or weeks) trying and then not being any the wiser afterwards.  There is a "law of diminishing returns" i.e. in some cases the only sensible course of action is to put to a side the specimens/photos and return to them at a later date.   Sometimes, just a 'fresh' look, days, weeks or months later is sufficient.

I e.g. identified sets of photos taken in Ladakh last year.  For some images I was uncertain with species the belonged to (but knew the genus) and for a few which family but not the genus, as a result of checking out images posted on eFI which I have checked in recent months, I can now name the 'outstanding' images from 2015.

And the more difficult example require a lot of concentration which one cannot always provide if tired or busy concentrating on other matters.  If one tries to name a plant in such circumstances, rushes this and does not check properly, mistakes are made and misidentifications are made.

Attempting to RELIABLY identify plants can be very demanding intellectually and mentally exhausting.  I am usually very tried, indeed exhausted after spending a day in a herbarium.  I do not think this is appreciated, especially in these days of "high-tech" science - just as "field skills" are often not valued in botany. 

  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: "chrischadwell261@btinternet.com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2016, 10:51
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257590] Re: Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24

Thanks, Chadwell ji,

Carex psychrophila Nees is an accepted name both as per The Plant List Ver. 1.1 & Catalogue of Life

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Carex psychrophila ?

Group discussion at

Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24 (google.com)

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 9:48:16 AM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote:

Thanks, Chadwell ji

On 24 Nov 2016 8:09 pm, "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Thanks for checking.  So Carex psychrophila remains a possibility.  As the images are of young flowers only and mature fruits are generally required to be certain of an identification, then unless we have a specialist, familiar with the genus in Kashmir, then it may be impossible for us to proceed further.  Perhaps a member in Kashmir or visiting Kashmir can take good close-ups of the mature fruits of this plant and send us?

I note the following publication but do not have a copy: 

Haq, E. U., G. H. Dar, B. A. Wafai and Jacob Koopman.

The Genus Carex L. (Cyperaceae) in the Kashmir Himalaya, India: A Taxonomic Appraisal. Bishen Singh Mahendra Pal Singh, Dehra Dun. (In press).

Perhaps someone who has a copy can consult this and see if it helps us?

Is Jacob Koopman a member of this group, as he is a Carex specialist when I am a beginner and this is not an easy genus?  Or could forward the images to request his input with this and indeed other Carex (and Cyperaceae) from Kashmir?

Makes sense if I concentrate my strictly limited time, energy & powers of concentration on genera and families where no specialists exist especially if they are not familiar with Himalayan species.  In some cases such specialists are not available.

With attempting to identify plants, one can easily spend hours (or even days or weeks) trying and then not being any the wiser afterwards.  There is a "law of diminishing returns" i.e. in some cases the only sensible course of action is to put to a side the specimens/photos and return to them at a later date.   Sometimes, just a 'fresh' look, days, weeks or months later is sufficient.

I e.g. identified sets of photos taken in Ladakh last year.  For some images I was uncertain with species the belonged to (but knew the genus) and for a few which family but not the genus, as a result of checking out images posted on eFI which I have checked in recent months, I can now name the 'outstanding' images from 2015.

And the more difficult example require a lot of concentration which one cannot always provide if tired or busy concentrating on other matters.  If one tries to name a plant in such circumstances, rushes this and does not check properly, mistakes are made and misidentifications are made.

Attempting to RELIABLY identify plants can be very demanding intellectually and mentally exhausting.  I am usually very tried, indeed exhausted after spending a day in a herbarium.  I do not think this is appreciated, especially in these days of "high-tech" science - just as "field skills" are often not valued in botany. 

  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: "chrischa...@btinternet.com" <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Carex psychrophila ?

Group discussion at

Poaceae, Cyperaceae and Juncaceae Week: Cyperaceae-Carex 03042013GS3 for ID from Kashmir- GS24 (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>

[Saroj Kasaju]

Looks correct ID ! https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ACarex_caryophyllea_(Ankstyvoji_viksva)_002.JPG&psig=AOvVaw0hEUVXBP0mzCC_lAOrzImy&ust=1631170393545000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJCmvrDl7vICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAM

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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