ANFEB39 Abutilon pannosum (please validate)

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Anurag Sharma

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Feb 26, 2015, 1:46:31 PM2/26/15
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Family: Malvaceae
Date: November 2014
Place: Bangalore Rural
Reference: http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20pannosum/246.pdf.jpg
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Dinesh Valke

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Feb 27, 2015, 6:33:57 AM2/27/15
to Anurag Sharma, efloraofindia
Anurag, this will not be A. pannosum, and not A.hirtum too.

The links you provided yesterday were helpful to know about pannosum & hirtum.
Putting them here for quick reference:
Abutilon hirtumherbarium | description | picture
Abutilon pannosumherbarium | description 

To me your posted plant is A. indicum.

Regards.
Dinesh





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Vijayasankar

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Feb 27, 2015, 12:48:09 PM2/27/15
to Dinesh Valke, Anurag Sharma, efloraofindia
The number of mericarps (25+) and their acute tips, and emarginate petals are pointing to Abutilon hirtum. The indumentum is supposed to have viscid hairs, please check.

Vijay
------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Vijayasankar Raman, Ph.D.
Research Scientist
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi, MS, USA

Anurag Sharma

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Feb 27, 2015, 12:56:59 PM2/27/15
to Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Thank you sir.
Here is a close up of the stem. Would you say there are viscid hair or only dense simple hair?
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Anurag N. Sharma
BSc. (CBZ) 2nd Year
St. Josephs College
Bangalore
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Vijayasankar

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Feb 27, 2015, 1:07:52 PM2/27/15
to Anurag Sharma, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Thanks Anurag, it looks like viscid but I cannot tell for sure from the picture. When viscid glandular hairs present, it will be 'sticky' to touch.

Vijay
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Vijayasankar Raman, Ph.D.
Research Scientist
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi, MS, USA

Anurag Sharma

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Feb 27, 2015, 1:13:17 PM2/27/15
to Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
It was clicked a long time back and the stem close up is something I failed to click at the time!
If not A. hirtum, what else could it be sir?

Thank you.

Ushadi Micromini

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Feb 28, 2015, 3:24:44 AM2/28/15
to Anurag Sharma, Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
nice pictures  esp number 8

that makes it seem that it may have been sticky...

like some fruits of some basil do and  some plectranthus do... that slight dewy smallest "droplets"  and they will also collect dirt..

usha di
Usha di
===========

Narain Singh Chauhan

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Feb 28, 2015, 7:46:13 AM2/28/15
to Ushadi Micromini, Anurag Sharma, Vijayasankar, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Most likely Abutilon indicum.

J.M. Garg

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Mar 7, 2015, 7:27:36 AM3/7/15
to efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke, Anurag Sharma

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Anurag, this will not be A. pannosum, and not A.hirtum too.
The links you provided yesterday were helpful to know about pannosum & hirtum.
Putting them here for quick reference:

Abutilon hirtum: herbarium | description | picture
Abutilon pannosum: herbarium | description
To me your posted plant is A. indicum.
Regards.
Dinesh                                         
The number of mericarps (25+) and their acute tips, and emarginate petals are pointing to Abutilon hirtum. The indumentum is supposed to have viscid hairs, please check.
Vijay 
Thank you sir.
Here is a close up of the stem. Would you say there are viscid hair or only dense simple hair? 
Anurag N. Sharma
Thanks Anurag, it looks like viscid but I cannot tell for sure from the picture. When viscid glandular hairs present, it will be 'sticky' to touch.
Vijay 
It was clicked a long time back and the stem close up is something I failed to click at the time!
If not A. hirtum, what else could it be sir?

Thank you. 

Anurag N. Sharma

nice pictures esp number 8
that makes it seem that it may have been sticky...
like some fruits of some basil do and some plectranthus do... that slight dewy smallest "droplets" and they will also collect dirt..

usha di 

Most likely Abutilon indicum.- from Chauhan ji 

 efi pages on Abutilon indicum & Abutilon hirtum


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surajit koley

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Mar 8, 2015, 3:30:00 AM3/8/15
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke, Anurag Sharma
One my request, concerning Abutilon in another thread, has not been addressed yet, leave aside met, yet I have received this mail, perhaps to express my view on it, view of a minnow, Huh!

I agree with Dinesh Ji's view. I do not think it is or the one in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/wzOrPt8dSyA/1h3CqyUe0xUJ is Abutilon pannosum.

I also do not think this is Abutilon hirtum.

Except the hairs at hilum, which I fail to explain for want of literature, I think it is probably Abutilon indicum G. Don, where number of carpels can be 20 or more. Yes, I read that FoP records, in A. hirtum, seed with minute shinning stellate hairs, more so at hilum. At the same time FoC records seeds in A. indicum are sparsely stellate.

Thank you
Regards
surajit

Anurag Sharma

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Mar 8, 2015, 8:14:26 AM3/8/15
to surajit koley, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke
Thank you very much sir, I too had the doubt about the hair at the hilum.
If only there was a definitive key that bore absolutely no ambiguity.

I will take this as Abutilon indicum.

surajit koley

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Mar 8, 2015, 10:44:45 AM3/8/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke
Anurag Ji,

I request you to count the number of mericarps in Dinesh Ji's photograph https://www.flickr.com/photos/dinesh_valke/6257781510 in the thread https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/1E9XV3RBkZI/LdC_s8ZY-0oJ. I think the species in that thread is A. indicum.

I am sad that my knowledge is so little.

Thank you
Regards
surajit

Anurag Sharma

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Mar 9, 2015, 3:18:12 AM3/9/15
to surajit koley, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke
The number of mericarps in that photo seem to be just over 20, as in mine sir.
Thank you.

surajit koley

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Mar 9, 2015, 12:10:25 PM3/9/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke
Thank you very much Anurag Ji, I can see 23 clear mericarps in that pic. It means A. indicum (L.) Sweet can have more than 20 mericarps!

But, it doesn't mean that your species is A. indicum.

Because, there are differences. One is hair on seed. Second is the tip/beak of mericarp is not that curved and pointed as in usual A. indicum.

So, your species may be some other. But, not A hirtum or A. pannosum I think.

Surprisingly, we do not have records of Abutilon bidentatum Hochst. ex A. Rich. in our database. FoP has description, FBI very little. Can you retrieve more from somewhere?

Thank you
Regards
surajit



Anurag Sharma

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Mar 9, 2015, 10:46:04 PM3/9/15
to surajit koley, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke
Will do sir. ill get back to you on this.

Thank you.

surajit koley

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Mar 10, 2015, 12:23:56 PM3/10/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman, Ushadi Micromini, Narain Singh Chauhan, Dinesh Valke
Dear Anurag Ji,


I am fed up with non-availability of correct info on Abutilon or many other genera, yet I am trying to ID a plant to species level....!!!

I fully subscribe your view, "If only there was a definitive key that bore absolutely no ambiguity."

Sorry, dear, I am really sorry. 

Thank you

Regards

surajit

Anurag Sharma

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Mar 10, 2015, 10:36:53 PM3/10/15
to surajit koley, indiantreepix
I will check that link sir. Thank you.
Maybe one day when this forum is with enough thoroughly validated links, we could come up with a key based on the photos available right here.
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