The Kakrol confusion: Do we have Momordica cochinchinensis in our database?

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Gurcharan Singh

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Jun 26, 2013, 9:09:45 AM6/26/13
to efloraofindia, surajit koley, Vijayasankar Raman
Yesterday I photographed fruits sold in Delhi under the name Kakrol, the fruits are turning yellow as they mature, almost rounded at the flower end (not gradually narrowed) and important definitely longer than 5 cm, 5-7 cm long.


I had earlier uploaded fruits of plant thought to be M. dioica 

Tanay suggested M. cochinchinensis, but perhaps my showing him true link of M. cochinchinensis he retracted (I now think my plant is M. renigera)
In the same thread Balkar ji uploaded what looks like true M. dioica, with yellow flowers lacking dark corolla spots, smaller fruits (less than 5 cm long) distinctly narrowed towards flower end.

Surajit ji uploaded a nicely illustrated plant without fruits, with clearly dark spotted corolla which could identify it with M. cochinchinensis or M. renigera


Surajit backed it up with another upload with flowers and fruits in different stages, and after I photographed fresh fruits two days back, I feel Surajit's plant resembles mine from Delhi market sold as kakrol. My fruits are broadly ovoid (not gradually narrowed like M. dioica) and 5-7 cm long. 
BOTH MY PLANT AS WELL AS ONE UPLOADED BY SURAJIT JI I FEEL IS M. RENIGERA NOW KNOWN AS M. SUBANGULATA SUBSP. RENIGERA 

The same seems to true of plant uploaded by Vijayasankar ji as M. cochinchinensis is also M. subangulata subsp. renigera.


Perhaps you will agree with me if see real fruits of Gac fruit, M. cochinchinensis, with much larger fruits (10-15 cm in diam), yellow in colour finally turning red, with more spaced shorter but stronger spines. 




PERHAPS SOON SOME MEMBER WILL FIND AND UPLOAD M. COCHINCHINENSIS, THE GAC FRUIT AND REMOVE THE CONFUSION OF APPLYING NAME KAKROL TO IT.

 

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
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surajit koley

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Jun 26, 2013, 1:02:46 PM6/26/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman
Sir,

Our market gives same result, attaching photographs.
These are all either M. subangulata ssp. renigera, or a hybrid form as have been discussed in one of the links you provided in earlier discussion - http://www.academicjournals.org/ajar/fulltext/2011/4July/Bharathi%20et%20al.htm.

WILD & CULTIVATED

I told, in my 1st post, that we have two KAKROL, one wild type and the other found in markets. I made mistake because 1) i was (and am) rather very novice 2) i found the plant in the wild.

According to two or three local people the wilds have much bigger fruits and can only be found in rural jungles. My sources are all searching!

HYBRID?

As for these fruits, sold in the markets, can it be a hybrid? Because at least in one of my photos uploaded in the first post shows glands on the leaf margin at base.

Thank you
Regards
surajit
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surajit koley

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Jun 26, 2013, 9:34:57 PM6/26/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman
Good morning Sir

A more elaborate discussion on cultivation and hybrids - http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/02/0178.pdf

Thank you
Regards
surajit

Gurcharan Singh

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Jun 26, 2013, 9:53:08 PM6/26/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman
Yes Surajit ji
In fact it was this paper which clinched the issue of our plant not being M. cochinchinensis rather M. subangulata subsp. renigera. I was about to upload the paper. Thanks you sent the link.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

surajit koley

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Jun 26, 2013, 9:55:23 PM6/26/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman
Thank you Sir. I've found the paper just minutes ago, will read when i return in evening.

A nice day to you all....

Regards
surajit

Gurcharan Singh

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Jun 29, 2013, 8:30:12 AM6/29/13
to surajit koley, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman
Thanks to Surajit ji, we finally have it in our database


It also removed our confusion between M. renigera and M. dioica.

And Aarti ji located true fruits of M. dioica. Hope she uploads on the group soon.



-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

surajit koley

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Jun 29, 2013, 12:03:46 PM6/29/13
to Gurcharan Singh, efloraofindia, Vijayasankar Raman
Thank you Sir, it's great to be part of eFI.

Regards,
surajit

Dr Pankaj Kumar

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Jun 29, 2013, 9:26:56 PM6/29/13
to indian...@googlegroups.com, surajit koley, Vijayasankar Raman
Prof A.K.Pandey at Delhi University could be one of the guys to consult for this matter :)
He expertises in the family Cucurbitaceae.
Pankaj
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