MCP23008 GP7

[Matthew]

I would like to use MCP23008 GP7 on a forked design of the DB9MAT 100 W PA. I would like to use this to control a relay to switch between a dedicated RX antenna and the TX antenna. I have started looking at implementing this on a test setup on my bench. However, I note on the protocol wiki the following:

The MCP23008 GP7 will be 1 during transmit, 0 during receive. (GP7 is not yet implemented.)

I think from looking at i2c_bus2.v this still remains not yet implemented. Presumably I can access the MCP23008 from a normal I2C software write negating the need for a gateware change?

Does this clash with intended future use? I notice the N2ADR board routes this to somewhere that a user might want to access this. Does this break any existing use cases?

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Matthew,

This should be okay. We can always add a control bit to the protocol to select whether this bit is RX/TX or RX Ant/TX Ant in the future if needed.

I don't think you can send just i2c commands to the generic i2c protocol address as the filter select which is part of command address 0x0 is sent quite often. See i2c_bus2.v where the MSB is currently set to zero:

               data1_next = {1'b0,cmd_data[23:17]};

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Matthew]

Ah yes, I see my error now. I am proposing to use ADDR[0x0] DATA[13] which is Alex RX antenna in protocol 1 v1.58 to control GP7. I've installed Quartus (some past horrors with the NIOS core made me vow to not touch Quartus again!) and will endeavour to make these changes.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi,

Well-equipped transceivers have a separate receiving antenna control. (which is inherent in seriously working on low bands). If Hermes lite in gateware  could have the addressing function of controlling antenna selection during reception. That would be very good. 

This would avoid the need to buy or build external additional devices to control the receiving antenna. Avoiding the situation we know from less-equipped trnsceivers.

I think that I speak on behalf of many reliable operators if I say: Such a solution in Heremes lite is very much needed. We look forward to what seems obvious and inherent to good radio. What Hermes Lite is and is getting better and better.

73, Joe
LB1HI

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Joe,

The HL2 can be configured to have a separate RX input. You must remove J1, ensure J21 is installed, and then connect a dedicated receiving antenna to RF3. 

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve,

Yes, but the point is for the antenna to be switchable.

So that you can declare that it switches on when changing the band to 168/80 meters. Or at least one position in the software to manually enable/disable use of the receiving antenna.

Eliminating J1 and using RF3 would deprive us of listening to TX natnna. Receipt on TX antenna is needed u must remain. The receiving antenna is used only on some (lower) bands.

And there is a need to turn it on and off either automatically or manually but we need a position in the software to do this. (Matthew proposed GP7 which is free, from the existing MCP23008 chip that controls N2ADR filters) I propose to go a step further and assign a separate addressing for the second integrated circuit MCP23008.

73,

Jozef
lb1hi

[Matthew]

Rather than spreading across 2 threads, I thought it best to reply here.

I am frustratingly close to 80m CW DXCC. I would like to be able to say the same thing for 160m in the future. Hence, I understand the specialist requirements for LF. The addition of GP7 in gateware was very easy. Adding a second I/O expander is possible. The gateware changes are more complex and/or PC software changes are required. This then starts to become a much bigger project that changing 8 lines of verilog and swapping a relay signal on a PCB. If you have the motivation, I would suggest this could be a very rewarding project for you to design a companion board for your purposes. There are some great resources detailed here for getting started in verilog.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[si...@sdr-radio.com]

Hi,

 

Maybe a new project, a companion unit for the HL2 similar to the DX Engineering RTR 2, possibly with optional 10W ATU? I also use external receive antennas and use the RTR 1A with the HL2.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Simon,
What button in what place (I assume that Console V3) you switch during listening between the transmitting antenna / receiving antenna. From where in HL2 do you take the signal to drive the RTR 1A? Thank you in advance.

73, Jozef

[Marc OLANIE]

Hi Joe (and the hl2 gang)

 

Most of your demands could be solved by the use of the Alexiares protocol, in other words with an other kind of SDR with a complete set of antenna switching boards. And this Alex protocol is handled by more expensive sdr platforms (the original HPSDR and Hermes rigs, the Apache Labs catalog, David Fainitski Odyssey2 SDR, the 14 and 16 bits Red Pitaya with Pavel’s gateware…. And probably the HiQSDR also developped by N2ADR some years ago, I don’t remember exactly the specs of this project )

 

… and as far as I remember, since the HermesLite V1, the Alex proto has been discarted for many technical reasons. Alex proto means a relatively « heavy » and rather expensive frontend, that is not really compliant with the « low cost for every ham » orientation of the HL2 ecosystem.

 

Imho, it could be interesting for you to invest in a 14 bits Red Pitaya platform that will offer you approximately all the bells and whistle you are looking for, without the need to question the development of the HL2 platform and for a starting price close to the one of the Hermeslite. To answer to your question, I would never give up any receiver for secondary anciliary functions like antenna switching. On the contrary, I would be very interested in a 6 receivers function (a former version of the gateware is able to do this but… it’s a « former » version), wider band spectrum, envelope tracking and pre-distortion features…. Etc.

 

The other feature you mentionned is the remote operation capabilities of the rig itself. Without requiring a full-fledge 100Mb/s ethernet link I think.

This capabilities have been, a long time ago, inclued in a forked version of John Melton’s GHPSDR (ghpsdr3-Alex). This « SDR Server service » is not maintained anymore alas.

I think Mr John Melton was considering adding these « remote op » feature in it’s LinHPSDR software.  You should probably ask him directly this question, it’s definitely something many hams are looking for. But it’s definitely a software question, not a gateware one.

 

My 2 cents

Marc f6itu

 

De : herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> De la part de Joe LB1HI
Envoyé : vendredi 8 mai 2020 17:09
À : Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Objet : Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

Hi Steve, hi  group,

I remain convinced that the development of Hermes goes towards remote work. Indeed, an IP remote switch can be used to control the antennas. as for example: https://youtu.be/q5riCt8BRCs or

https://remoteqth.com/ip-switch.php

But if there is a chance (and a place in FPGA) and HL2 could perform these functions without additional devices or a computer on the remote side of the remote then it would be a great advantage of "small" but thus "big" possibilities of Hermes.

I realize that the possible need to find a "place" in FPGA would probably involve the need to reduce the number of receivers. I am interested in the opinions of others from how many receivers they could give up for the use of such useful functions (and innovative ones because other routes do not have this and cost-effective because they do not require buying additional equipment for remote operation)

In my opinion, two receivers are enough. In my short experience of using HL2 I did not meet the need to turn on the third or fourth receiver. (However, for multiband skimming WSPR or FT modes mostly broadband antennas are used, so some additional function can be reduced making place for more receivers)

 In addition - Theoretically, if all the pins from an additional MCP23008 or similar were not taken, the free Alex tab positions could be used repurposed for remote disconnection / grounding of antennas during the storm with lightning.   Or even turning on / off a remote PC or SBC if it is found in a remote location and which is not normally used 24/7. (not all computers have well-functioning Wake on LAN)

It's just a matter of imagination and customization of use the remotely controlled "open collectors"

For example, control of receiving bandpass filters can follow the control of lowpass N2ADR filters. Controlling the change of band in power amplifiers in a limited form is also possible with “follow N2ADR filters” but it be more useful to use universal serial CAT issued by HL2. BY HL2?  Well, because the computer is on the other side with us and thus the CAT from the local software gives us nothing at remote location. (Of course, I skip USB over IP or RS over IP here because if we already have IP connectivity with our HL2 then why not use it and do it simply) Wen know that story from CW cases.

But such a minimum seems to be the possibility of switching the receiving antenna, for example at 40 meters from vertical on K9AY and back while listening. For this we need just one open collector.  Remotely manageable from our computer with any control software compatible with protocol 1. The second necessary minimum for safety and hardware protection is the ability to remotely control the disconnection and grounding of antennas during lightning.
These are just thoughts and suggestions. It will be nice to hear what you think about that above and hear your suggestions.

73, Joe
LB1HI

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 4:56:54 PM UTC+2, si...@sdr-radio.com wrote:

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[Ron]

Well said Marc.

Too many 'demands' bending the project.

Is Steve not doing enough with the small amount of time available?

Put these items on a wish list then, if feasible, Steve might be able to do something about them otherwise try to make the changes yourself and bring out a complimentary board

Ron. G6BMY

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/BYAPR01MB501692741EAF57AD0730DD7AE3A20%40BYAPR01MB5016.prod.exchangelabs.com.

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi group,

 

I remain convinced that the development of Hermes goes towards remote work. Indeed, an IP remote switch can be used to control the antennas. as for example https://remoteqth.com/ip-switch-mk2.php  or https://remoteqth.com/ip-switch.php

But if there is a chance (and a place in FPGA) HL2 could perform these functions without additional devices or a computer on the remote side of the remote then it would be a great advantage of "lite" but thus possibilities "big"  Hermes.

I realize that the possible need to find a "place" in FPGA would probably involve the need to reduce the number of receivers. I am interested in the opinions of others; how many receivers they could give up for the use of such useful functions (and innovative ones because other radios do not have this.  And will be cost-effective because they do not require buying additional equipment for remote operation)

In my opinion, two receivers are enough. In my short experience of using HL2 I didn't meet the need to turn on the third or fourth receiver. (However, for multiband skimming WSPR or FT modes mostly broadband antennas are used, so some additional function can be reduced making place for more receivers)

 In addition - Theoretically, if all the pins from an additional MCP23008 or similar were not taken, the free Alex tab positions could be used repurposed for remote disconnection / grounding of antennas during the storm with lightning.   Or even turning on / off a remote PC or SBC if it is found in a remote location and which is not normally used 24/7. (not all computers have well-functioning Wake on LAN)

It's just a matter of imagination and customization of use the remotely controlled "open collectors"

For example, control of receiving bandpass filters can follow/use the control signals of lowpass N2ADR filters. Controlling the change of band in power amplifiers in a limited form is also possible with “follow N2ADR filters” but it would be more useful to use universal serial CAT issued by HL2. Why by HL2?  Well, because the computer is on the other side with us and thus the CAT from the local software gives us nothing at remote location. (Of course, I skip USB over IP or RS over IP here because if we already have IP connectivity with our HL2 then why not use it and do it simply). But such a minimum seems to be the possibility of switching the receiving antenna, for example at 40 meters from vertical on K9AY and back. For this we need just one open collector type pin. Pin remotely manageable from our computer with any control software compatible with protocol 1. The second necessary minimum for safety and hardware protection is the ability to remotely control the disconnection and grounding of antennas during lightning.

These are just thoughts and suggestions. It will be nice to hear what you think and what are your suggestions

73, Joe

LB1HI

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 4:56:54 PM UTC+2, si...@sdr-radio.com wrote:

[Matthew]

As an open source project, the possibilities are endless and all the information is there to succeed. I think it would be a shame to temper someone's enthusiasm if they have a drive, vision and are willing to pursue it themselves. I personally, was really inspired to see this project based around an HL2. It would be great to see more projects like this.

Spend some time learning verilog and you can really open up lots of possibilities to realise your dreams. Or learn some PC software skills and you can just add an I2C device and not need to learn verilog.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

 

[Jonas Sanamon]

Hi,

I just want to point out that LinHPSDR already supports switching antennas using the Alex protocol. I use this with my Atlas based HPSDR setup.

Best Regards,

Jonas - SM4VEY

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/BYAPR01MB501692741EAF57AD0730DD7AE3A20%40BYAPR01MB5016.prod.exchangelabs.com.

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Marc,

From the time I remember, there were only four receivers. And for six receivers there was always second parallel version of gateware with the exclusion of TX function. So since all modern modifications do not apply to reception anyway, you can go ahead with the last version 6rx and upload the gateware. It wasn't different before because you had to change the gateware, anyway if you need 6 rx no tx or 4 rx plus tx. Changing the gateware is very simple and very fast. These are just a few mouse clicks in the SparkSDR program, for example
So nothing has changed. New improvements introduced as for example puresignal have no effect on reception.

(The question about possible reduction of receivers concerned only the version with TX. Not the version with six receivers)

I don't think that any major changes are needed since we only need two open colector pins.

And basically we need one because the existing GP7 is free.

Due to the ongoing implementation of one of the two small comapanion / extension board with MCP23008. The logical consequence is a mental storm how we can eventualy  use the remaining pins.

73, Jozef

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[Joe LB1HI]

Ron,

The discussion on ADDR 0x20 has been going on for a long time, I recommend reading the forum.

And I'll just quote Steve's words (you don't have to look far because only in the same topic above)

... "This should be okay. We can always add a control bit to the protocol to select whether this bit is RX / TX or RX Ant / TX Ant in the future if needed ...."

Joe, lb1hi

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[Marc OLANIE]

Thanks Joe

I must admit, I didn’t pay attention of the multiples differences of gatewares. I have several HL (1 and 2), and other hpsdr-like platforms and chose them depending on the mood of the moment. One of the HL2 will be dedicated to the OH2GAQ transverter system for example (the pcb set jus arrived this week, I’ working on the BOM)

 

I’ve used the HL2 with a personal I2C extension board  (AlexI2C and an horrible arduino based switching controler) during the early days of the hermes lite, to control an antenna switching board and several filtrers (in fact a full alex frontend emulation). This after tricking the I2C code. But it really is an overkill solution. The cost of a full Alex frontend is probably 2 to 3 times the cost a full HL2 with it’s filter.

 

Steve played an important role, convincing me that a complex frontend filter was a waste of time and money… I must admit, he was -and still is-  right.

 

That the reason why I think a more powerful platform like the Red Pitaya is probably more suitable to drive an Alex frontend. Indeed, a couple of I2C expander could do the job, but you’ll have to patch your sdr client software to control the I2C dialog. It won’t be the case with a « true Alex » SPI bus

 

As Matthew wrote, it’s an open source/open hardware projets and we just « have to brew our own gateware » if we need some extra feature. But I fear these potential ugly forking that could drive a coherent project into a constellation of exotic and incompatible solution. (I didn’t use to be so conservative a few years ago ;-D  )

 

Tnks agn for your insight, Joe

73’

Marc f6itu

(and yes… I also dream of a nice remote software)

 

 

 

 

 

 

De : herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> De la part de Joe LB1HI

Envoyé : vendredi 8 mai 2020 19:42

À : Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Objet : Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

Hi Marc,

From the time I remember, there were only four receivers. And for six receivers there was always second parallel version of gateware with the exclusion of TX function. So since all modern modifications do not apply to reception anyway, you can go ahead with the last version 6rx and upload the gateware. It wasn't different before because you had to change the gateware, anyway if you need 6 rx no tx or 4 rx plus tx. Changing the gateware is very simple and very fast. These are just a few mouse clicks in the SparkSDR program, for example
So nothing has changed. New improvements introduced as for example puresignal have no effect on reception.

(The question about possible reduction of receivers concerned only the version with TX. Not the version with six receivers)

 

I don't think that any major changes are needed since we only need two open colector pins.

And basically we need one because the existing GP7 is free.

Due to the ongoing implementation of one of the two small comapanion / extension board with MCP23008. The logical consequence is a mental storm how we can eventualy  use the remaining pins.

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[Ron]

Hi Joe,

HL2 really sparked my interest when I heard of it and because of that I bought one. Despite an interest in programming and electronics, hobby only, FGPA was seen as 'new fangled, esoteric, weird' and as such has passed me by. Fortunately being retired I have, hopefully, the time to correct this and continue to learn - in this case, verilog. With other things, not covid-19 related, going on, it will take some time but I love a challenge. The fpga board I have is getting a bit of a battering as I test routines that don't work but, hey, that the fun of it.

If you have any expertise in this area I'm sure that Steve and others would welcome any input you could give. This may also assist Steve with the future direction of HL2.

From a old fogey still learning (trying at least)

Stay safe
Regards

Ron, G6BMY

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[si...@sdr-radio.com]

Hi,

 

Not a button but either using Ext on HL2 or using SDR Console’s USB relay support, you can define relays based on TX/RX/Band:

 

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Simon,

EXT will not allow us to change the antenna during reception (between receiving and transmitting antenna and back). SDR Console’s USB relay support is a good local solution. However, it will not fulfill its role for remote operation. But we could consider the USB over IP option. I will be looking for some open source solutions USB over IP  for your Console V3 with HL2 soon.

I appreciate it, it's really good added functionality in your SDR Console’s USB relay support

For my Yaesu and Icom I use commercial solutions (partly built from DIY kits) but for HL2 I would like to remain in the open software and open hardware category.

Maybe this is not the easiest way but but, hey, that the fun of it. As Ron previously wrote.

Good health and further success in the development of Console.

73,

Jozef

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[si...@sdr-radio.com]

Jozef,

 

I think you’ll have to design a network-enabled antenna switch to fully meet your requirements. I have no need to switch antennas – I have dedicated antennas for TX and RX.

 

At the moment remote operation isn’t a requirement.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Joe LB1HI
Sent: 09 May 2020 00:43
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

Hi Simon,

EXT will not allow us to change the antenna during reception (between receiving and transmitting antenna and back). SDR Console’s USB relay support is a good local solution. However, it will not fulfill its role for remote operation. But we could consider the USB over IP option. I will be looking for some open source solutions USB over IP  for your Console V3 with HL2 soon.

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Smon,
Thnks.

These are not my requirements. It's a desire to improve HL2 (not Console )

Remote controlled IP switches are available without problems for $ 32 on ebay. But that's not the point.

And it's not about switching between different antennas. But it's about switching  between the receiving and transmitting antenna. During RX

73, Jozef,
lb1hi

[Joe LB1HI]

And it's also about suggestions and  ideas for the possible use of MCP23008
remaining free pins

73, Joe

 
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 6:29:49 AM UTC+2, si...@sdr-radio.com wrote:

[Graeme Jury]

Hello Jozef,

I think that what you need is already available if you are prepared to do your own filter set. The common software e.g. Quisk, SparkSDR and piHPSDR and others can do the switching. If you study the filter settings you will see that on changes of state HL2 sends the filter settings for the chosen band which are 7 bits long. You can set it up so that the first 3 bits are decoded to provide 8 relay states and similarly the last 3 bits. This leaves 1 bit which can be used to select the antenna. These bits can be duplicated across the TX set and the RX set with the antenna changeover bit able to be different for TX and RX thus allowing you to TX on the transmit antenna and when going to receive the relay will change to the receive antenna. Note that ptt is a change of state so either the TX or Rx relay settings are sent on change.

Diverting a little from topic, I have found that only 2 RX HPF's are really necessary viz. 160M and 80M and the 80M one does not offer much improvement over the 160M. I say this because you could recover another bit and use 2 bits to get even more functions that are distinguished by band and within that by TX or RX state. Two 3 of 8 decoders off the I2C decoder and a weekend's work and you could be in business. If you dig into what the HL2 already provides to a companion board you will become very impressed.

73, Graeme ZL2APV

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Graeme,

Thank you for your reply and your valuable suggestions.

Listening once on the A and once on the B (let's assume that it is a receiving and transmitting antenna or two antennas looking in different directions) is very useful function and it is mainly about it.
 About to have possibility to switch between antenna A and B but not trygered by PTT

73, Jozef

lb1hi

[si...@sdr-radio.com]

Jozef,

 

“But it's about switching  between the receiving and transmitting antenna. During RX.”

 

This I understand. I would suggest a solution usable for any QRP remote station, not something exclusive to the HL2, maybe tie in a QRP auto tuner as well. Anyway, good luck, if software is needed then that I can do.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Joe LB1HI
Sent: 09 May 2020 08:40
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

Hi Smon,
Thnks.

[Steve Haynal]

Hi All,

This is a surprisingly active thread! I do not have the luxury of a second RX antenna for 160M so am not the right person to specify and fully develop this feature. I learned from the recent IO board experience that unless I am actually going to use the specific IO, it is very difficult to get something that works nicely. I think others should lead in this development. Here are some thoughts.

First, thank you to Matthew for his repurposing of the current MCP23008 bit 7 as an RX/TX antenna select. He first pitched the idea in this group, then implemented the Verilog and asked me privately for review. His changes looked good so I requested a github pull and updates to the protocol wiki. He has done both and I pulled in his changes just today. They can be built from the github source today and will be a part of the next official release. He also updated his fork of linHPSDR to make use of this new feature. This is the proper model to follow and a good example for others who want to contribute. If someone contributes more and more RTL and trust develops, I grant full unreviewed commit access to github. This is what Johan has for his radioberry variant work.

There are a range of possibilities:

** Simple repurposed bit 7 as Matthew has done. We can overload the behavior of this bit if needed by adding other configuration bits. Behave is manner A when config is X, but is manner B when config is Y.

** Additional MCP23008. Joe showed pictures of the two small IO boards I provided as a starting point.

** Re-encode the current filter selection from one-hot to encoded to free up bits as Graeme points out.

** Play tricks with EXT TR if there is no external PA, as external TR and internal TR are separate.

** Completely redo the N2ADR filter board with ATU/PA and more! This is a lot of work.

I frankly am not interested in any of this work as I doubt I will use it. I am willing to do the following:

If given a clear spec of what people desire similar to what is seen on the protocol wiki page, I may agree to implement the RTL. This requires others to work out exactly what will happen in software, what will be sent to the HL2, and what response they want seen in the HL2. This should be done in a way that is complimentary or extends what already exists. Note that there is already a generic way for software to talk to I2C at addresses 0x3c and 0x3d so gateware changes may not even be required.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi,
it will be nice to have a toggle possibility. Button to toggle between the RX antenna and the TX antenna. Like this o the photo which is not usable yet. 

The "push button" to toggle between the RX antenna and the transmitting antenna.

For example, it often happens that the transmitting antenna has a high level of interference and you need to help yourself with another antenna, for example, loop, etc.
Other antennas that can cut us off from interference/noise/QRM.
Also extremely useful when we calling on a directional antenna to check if someone is calling us from the side.

And and and  ...... a lot of possibilities. Extremely useful.

* Toggle is a function when during the reception we can switch between the main and the receiving antenna but when the PTT button is pressed the main antenna will always be used

73, Jozef
lb1hi

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Matthew,

These are not my purposes. This is a very useful function even having its own "button" in OpenHPSDR " already. 

  I don't need to design a companion board either. His design is here https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/tree/master/hardware/companions/smallio and here https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/tree/master/hardware/companions / io_jumper  Steve sent ready boards to 10 people including me.

In addition, we have free GP7

I suggest that the antenna toggle should be implemented using free GP7 on existing  MCP23008 or with additional MCP23008 from a.m. companion boards. Toggle = to control a relay to switch between an RX antenna and the TX antenna. But with "button" on the front panel and not inside the settings menu. 

73, Jozef 

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi All,

Works well. Thank you Matthew and Steve.

Selecting the RX1 field on the Alex--> Antenna Control tab gives a high state of 3.3 Volt on GP7 = P13. (screenshot attached). The P13 point is in the middle of the back (right next to the back panel) N2ADR board. Easily accessible.

For full happiness. we would still need to have the possibility to turn this function on / off (toggle) with some button on the software front panel.

73, Jozef
LB1Hi

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Joe,

Do you know what bit in the protocol that button controls? Perhaps we can connect it to GP& on the MCP23008 too.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve,

This question will certainly be answered  by some expert on the subject.

This option was introduced in version 3.4.4.

     3.4.4 (2017-11-19)

• Added MIDI CAT support for the Behringer CMD Studio 2a
• Added support for the ANAN-7000DLE transceiver
• Added feature to select between receive or transmit antenna for receiving
• Use of seperate TX Profiles for various modes.
• LSB, USB, DSB, CWL, CWU, SPEC, & DRM
• FM
• AM & SAM
• DIGL & DIGU
• PRO Latency feature added.

Is there anything preventing such functionality to have in Quisk, SparkSDR, etc.

Do we have to rely only on OpenHPSDR? 

73, Jozef

lb1hi

[si...@sdr-radio.com]

Hi Steve,

 

I see the change below. Is this for RX only; is the TX antenna always selected when in TX? This is exactly what I want, many thanks.

 

0x00

[13]

Control MCP23008 GP7 (I2C device on N2ADR filter board) (0=TX antenna, 1=RX antenna)

 

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Steve Haynal
Sent: 23 May 2020 06:15
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

Hi Joe,

[Matthew]

I've just had a quick look at this button with hpsdrsim and PowerSDR and emulating an Orion device. Toggling of this button seems to be related to ADDR 0x0 DATA[1:0]. I don't really understand very much about the Alex system. There is a chance I haven't chosen the most compatible bit in the protocol. Does anyone on the group know more about the HPSDR Alex system who can shine some light on this?

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Reid Campbell]

I have had a look at the Power SDR code and the follow definition is used to define control of a different rx ant:

/*
C3
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | + +------------ Alex Attenuator (00 = 0dB, 01 = 10dB, 10 = 20dB, 11 = 30dB)[8-9]
| | | | | +---------------- Preamp On/Off (0 = Off, 1 = On)[10]
| | | | +------------------ LT2208 Dither (0 = Off, 1 = On) [11]
| | | + ------------------- LT2208 Random (0= Off, 1 = On) [12]
| + + --------------------- Alex Rx Antenna (00 = none, 01 = Rx1, 10 = Rx2, 11 = XV) [13-14]
+ ------------------------- Alex Rx out (0 = off, 1 = on). Set if Alex Rx Antenna > 0. [15]
*/

I have added the bit numbers that would be required to be added to the protocol definitions.

Currently the control of the rx ant is using bit [13] but I believe it should be [15], with bits [13-14] used to select which receiver.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

On 23/05/2020 21:24, Matthew wrote:

I've just had a quick look at this button with hpsdrsim and PowerSDR and emulating an Orion device. Toggling of this button seems to be related to ADDR 0x0 DATA[1:0]. I don't really understand very much about the Alex system. There is a chance I haven't chosen the most compatible bit in the protocol. Does anyone on the group know more about the HPSDR Alex system who can shine some light on this?

73 Matthew M5EVT.

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[Matthew]

Hi Reid,

Thanks for taking a look at this. Is your post specifically relating to the button on the main page that Jozef is talking about? Using an HPSDR simulator (hpsdrsim) I can click on buttons/change settings in PowerSDR and see what it changes in the protocol. Not owning any other HPSDR radios or knowing much about the Alex system doesn't help me!

Clicking on said button seemed to be toggling something relating to Alex TX relay:

C4

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

| | | | | | | |

| | | | | | + + ----------- Alex Tx relay (00 = Tx1, 01= Tx2, 10 = Tx3)

| | | | | + --------------- Duplex (0 = off, 1 = on)

| | + + +------------------ Number of Receivers (000 = 1, 111 = 8)

| +------------------------ Time stamp – 1PPS on LSB of Mic data (0 = off, 1 = on)

+-------------------------- Common Mercury Frequency (0 = independent frequencies to Mercury

Boards, 1 = same frequency to all Mercury boards)

The Alex Manual here (block diagram on page 4) suggest that "Alex RX out" (DATA 15) is something to do with sending so an external pre-amp/filter. The more modern ANAN radios rename Rx 1 and Rx 2 to EXT 1 and EXT 2 (I think), see page 33 here.

I think bit [13-14] select Rx/(EXT) 1 antenna and Rx(EXT) 2 antenna on the Alex block diagram. I think the "Alex TX relay" (C4 0:1 as shown above) relates to Ant 1, Ant 2 and Ant 3 on the Alex block diagram.

From all of this, I think allocating GP7 to ADDR 0x0 DATA[0] in protocol 1 is the most compatible? It seems with this bit (and only this bit?), there would be no modifications required for PowerSDR source code?

This is all perhaps a little arbitrary as we have reasonable free-reign within protocol 1. However, I think it is best to pick something that best fits with how existing software uses this, both for coders and users.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for the extra information, so the conclusion; I think you got it right in the first place, Address 0x00 [13].

Looking at the manual for Alex, it has 3 antenna ports, 3 Rx ports and a Rx output used for pre-amp/filter. It was this rx output port that was causing me confusion in the protocol description.

What you are wanting to do, is select a non Tx receive antenna which I think fits the description of what Address 0x0, [13,14] should control. Address 0x0, [0,1] is for antenna selection for both Tx/Rx and should be left for that in the future.

I have looked at some of the code for the "rx Ant" button, but the initial "change state" call back has code commented out and I will need to follow the rabbit down the hole on that one.

As for the Alex panel to control it all, well I understand most of it after reading the Alex manual but what is the stuff about Rx in/out on TX? Is that for PS?

I suspect that you seen the antenna bits change as you can specify one of the other antenna port for receive. There is a lot of flexibility but that can lead to a lot of confusion as well.

Cheers

Reid
Mi0BOT/Gi8TME

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[W. Jozef]

Hi,
I understand that this is not easy. Progress is already visible. But I am convinced that the experts will do the trick.

73,
Jozef

[Steve Haynal]

HI Matthew and Reid,

Should I update the gateware to this new bit in the next release? Alex TX Relay is specified as two bits, but use just bit 0?

73,

Steve

kf7o

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[Matthew]

Hi Steve,

I'd like a bit more time to understand this please.

I've just been looking at how linHPSDR treats all these bits (John wrote all this code and he knows this protocol inside out). This matches up with my understanding of the protocol document.

I'm struggling to match up the protocol document with PowerSDR behaviour. I cannot understand with PowerSDR if you want to use antenna ANT0 for TX (from the protocol this suggests Alex TX relay = 0?) and antenna RX1 for RX, sending bits related to TX Relay alone achieves this behaviour. Does the protocol send something different when PowerSDR goes into TX?  If someone had an ANAN radio and could confirm this feature in PowerSDR actually behaves as we think it does that would be great.

So at the moment it feels like if we implement the PowerSDR way, we break linHPSDR. But perhaps I am missing something still.

I'm not that keen on implementing things for relays that switch high power signals and sensitive RX front ends without fully understanding what we are doing. I would like to understand what Reid finds from digging in the code behind this button.

It would be great to get some input from the experts that Jozef references.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Rune Øye]

HI,

I am not a programmer don't have a clue however, Power SDR that I use with my Red Pitaya /C25 (Charley 25) project have.

"Antenna port 1" is default as TX/RX (Antenna connector 1)

"Antenna port 1" can have a separate / extra coax connector  (Antenna connector 2)

Antenna connector 2 is useful for separate RX antenna. You activate this function in software and switch a relay between port 1 and port 2

Not sure if this is for any help.

73,

Rune LA7THA   

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[Reid Campbell]

Hi Steve, Matthew,

I started a reply to Steve this morning and there was a knock at the door, my second HL2 had arrived from Makerfabs. That put an end to anything until I got it going. Ok, it didn't take 10 hours (30 mins from unboxed to Tx) but then life got in the way.

See below.

On 28/05/2020 10:38, Matthew wrote:

Hi Steve,

I'd like a bit more time to understand this please.

I've just been looking at how linHPSDR treats all these bits (John wrote all this code and he knows this protocol inside out). This matches up with my understanding of the protocol document.

I'm struggling to match up the protocol document with PowerSDR behaviour. I cannot understand with PowerSDR if you want to use antenna ANT0 for TX (from the protocol this suggests Alex TX relay = 0?) and antenna RX1 for RX, sending bits related to TX Relay alone achieves this behaviour. Does the protocol send something different when PowerSDR goes into TX?  If someone had an ANAN radio and could confirm this feature in PowerSDR actually behaves as we think it does that would be great.

OK, this is my understanding. 0x00:[0:1] specifies the antenna to be used for both Rx and Tx and on the Alex there are 3 antenna ports. (protocol allows for 4?). This allows for different antennas for different bands and the mapping is controlled from the Setup/General/Alex control panel.

Alex also allows for 3 Rx only inputs. These are controlled by 0x00:[13:14], the true table is below

00 - No RX only input
01 - Rx 1 in
10 - Rx 2 in
11 - XV Rx in

There is one further complication. The Rx from the RX/TX antenna ports can be redirected out using the Rx 1 out port. This is controlled by 0x00:[15], a '1' will redirect the Rx path out so it can be filtered or amplified, and then passed back into the system on Rx1, 2 or XV. This is controlled by 0x00:[13:14].

Again this is all controlled from the Setup/General/Alex control panel.  

I would like to have confirmed all this and I thought the best way was to see what was happening on the wire using Wireshark. I thought there was a HPSDR protocol plug-in to decode the protocol but so far I can see there is a description but you have to compile Wireshark with the protocol to make sure they are compatible. I didn't want to get into that just yet, in case there was an already built Wireshark which included the plug-in. Does anybody know of a Window compatible plug-in for Protocol 1?

So where does that leave us with regards to which bit to use. As the changes that Matthew has specified for Mathis's 100W amp are only for Rx, I think that bit 0x00:[13] should be used. Bits 0x00:[1,0] should be used for future expansion to select different Rx/Tx antenna.  

I see that Simon has mentioned, in a different message, the possibility of a Rx only port for a revised N2ADR filter board. If this is a true Rx only port, then 0x00:[13} would make sense for this as well.

So at the moment it feels like if we implement the PowerSDR way, we break linHPSDR. But perhaps I am missing something still.

I'm not that keen on implementing things for relays that switch high power signals and sensitive RX front ends without fully understanding what we are doing. I would like to understand what Reid finds from digging in the code behind this button.

It would be great to get some input from the experts that Jozef references.

I don't think they are coming :-)

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

73 Matthew M5EVT.

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[Matthew]

Hi Reid,

I was just about to reply my conclusion to this, then I saw your message.

I have been looking at the behaviour of this PowerSDR button with MOX on/off and all the combinations in the Alex control panel. It is further complicated by bits getting flipped with MOX on/off and this causes problems with listening duplex on an RX antenna. I don't like the idea of things switching at TX/RX crossover that are independent of HL2 PTT logic. I do not believe that changing to the TX Relay signal is right just for this button to half work with the way it is implemented in PowerSDR.

I've run out of patience staring at relays and endless switching possibilities. My conclusion, stick with how it is in the current gateware. If someone has the motivation, they could either add a button in PowerSDR or re-purpose the one in question for HL2 use to simply toggle the bit. For other software developers, the current gateware behaviour is described on the wiki protocol page.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Matthew,

This sounds reasonable. Reid, are you willing to update the PowerSDR button to use the bit Matthew specified on the protocol wiki page?

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Steve, Matthew,

Executive summary: I don't think any change is required to PowerSDR as it is expecting bit 0x00:[13] to be used for a Rx only antenna.

The long bit:

The control panel allows very complicated switching arrangements of all the antenna connectors (Ant 1, 2 & 3), Rx Antenna (Rx1, 2 & XV) and the Tx out port. The Rx Ant button should, IMHO, switch between the Tx antenna and a separate Rx antenna when it is clicked but only if not Tx'ing. I think Matthew may have found that that is not the case. I can look into the logic of it all before we have something to control.

I have looked a little bit more into a Wireshark plug-in and found https://github.com/matthew-wolf-n4mtt/openhpsdr-u. This plug-in has already been updated to include the changes for HL2 in the protocol but there is no built version for the latest release of Wireshark. There is an release for a old version of Wireshark, so I'll try that and let you know how it goes.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT 

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[Ronald Nicholson]

What is an Alex?  I see this term referenced several places in the Hermes Lite 2 protocol documentation, but nothing that says what an Alex is or does.

Thanks,

Ron  n6ywu

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[si...@sdr-radio.com]

Hi,

 

A filter bank: https://openhpsdr.org/alex.php

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ronald Nicholson
Sent: 29 May 2020 16:33
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

What is an Alex?  I see this term referenced several places in the Hermes Lite 2 protocol documentation, but nothing that says what an Alex is or does.

 

Thanks,

 

Ron  n6ywu

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve,
Very limited  time to review older posts again to check. (I tried to find mutual I2C relations between 32/33 and 30/31 pins.) I sometimes have a small moment of free time. Which I want to use, among others, for the continuation of earlier issues. That's why Steve is asking you, can you tell what the latest state  in FPGA  gateware Is it as I think below?

There is no meaning where the next expander slave will be connected. Do to
a. DB17 pins 2/3 (= i2,32 / i2,33 sda / scl -> U2E FPGA)   or
b. HL2 is N2ADR Jumper board. DB7 ON HL2 pins 4/5 = pins 16-17 -> CN2 ON N2ADR board
Is that so?

I deliberately omitted  that "a" and "b" are on separate bus controllers.
I also overlooked the fact that both buses serving
1. SDA1 SCL1 pin 16/18 Db1 HL2 Board = pins 103-p6 scl1 / 104-i6 sd1 on U2E FPGA
2. DB17 pins 2/3 (= i2,32 / i2,33 sda / scl -> U2E FPGA
they are together on the same controller yet

PS.
The first attempt I want to carry out with the same address for the new slave 32 (0x20) and if there are any problems I will pull A0 to a high state for address 0x21 and then I will ask you for a small change

73, Jozef
LB1HI

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 7:20:08 AM UTC+2, Steve Haynal wrote:

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Joe,

I am curious if we can have two MCP23008s at the same address as you are trying. If not, I will update the gateware to send the same MCP23008 commands to two addresses.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[W. Jozef]

Hi Steve,
Thanks. This is great . I will do a test with 0x20 and then will pass to 0x21 and let you know. 73, Joe

[W. Jozef]

I2C2, FPGA pins 30.31 and Slow ADC Bus, FPGA pins 32.33 are sitting on separate controllers. Can you confirm that I can use any of these two buses?

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve,

Please let me know if I can use any of the I2C2 buses, FPGA pins 30.31 and second Slow ADC Bus, FPGA pins 32.33

73, Jozef

On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 8:18:46 PM UTC+2, Steve Haynal wrote:

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Joe,

My preference would be for you to use either FPGA pins 30 and 31, or FPGA pins 103 and 104. FPGA pins 32 and 33 are used to continuously read the slow ADC. It is possible to use pings 32 and 33 for other purposes, but it does require more gateware work.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve,

OK thank you for the message. I have two different printed circuit boards but one MCP23008 (order with next MCPs still on the way. Covid delay, I think). Now I know how to plan use and connection.

73, Joe
lb1hi

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi,

What are the chances that the RX antenna button will work ? ( controlling GP7 on / off)

73,s , Joe

lb1hi

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

If you set-up the Alex screen as below the Rx Ant button will work for 20M. For some reason you have to select Antenna 2 or 3  and RX1. The 1, 2 & 3 select the output antenna relay which is not in a HL2 but will flip the protocol bits, again not used in HL2 yet. Selecting RX1 will cause the correct bit to be flipped to control GP7.

Cheers

Reid
Mi0BOT/Gi8TME

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[W. Jozef]

Hi Reid,

Thank you for your answer. Maybe you misunderstood me.

I mean toggle "button" on the front panel of the software.

Like this screen shot here.

73, Joe

lb1hi

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 4:40:43 PM UTC+2, Reid Campbell wrote:

Hi Joe,

If you set-up the Alex screen as below the Rx Ant button will work for 20M. For some reason you have to select Antenna 2 or 3  and RX1. The 1, 2 & 3 select the output antenna relay which is not in a HL2 but will flip the protocol bits, again not used in HL2 yet. Selecting RX1 will cause the correct bit to be flipped to control GP7.

Cheers

Reid
Mi0BOT/Gi8TME

On 22/06/2020 11:19, Joe LB1HI wrote:

Hi,

What are the chances that the RX antenna button will work ? ( controlling GP7 on / off)

73,s , Joe

lb1hi

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve and group,

Thank you for your efforts. For you and for others.

Perhaps if there are difficulties to activate and assign logic to the "RX antenna" button then maybe a temporary around solution will be by using another button.

For example "ALEX" burton. This button itself seems active.

But at the moment it does not work in such a way that it activates and deactivates the Setup-> General-> Alex tab.

 

If the ALEX button on the front panel can deactivate the Alex tab and thus deactivate also settings in the RX1 column, the GP7 pin would go to low 0V.

 

At this moment it does not happen.

 ALEX button press on the front panel does not bear any changes.

GP7 remains high all the time.

And it would be good if, by pressing the ALEX button (deactivating) on the front panel, the settings made in this tab in the RX1 column ( our P13 - GP7 to control the antenna relay) would turn off at the same time. 

Maybe this is a solution around. Should not interfere because actually no other functions of the Alex tab are used.

It seems logical that pressing ALEX should also disable the Alex function and its settings in the tab.

But unfortunately, it doesn't work.

Is it a good idea to fix and use it?

73, Joe

lb1hi

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 7:14:47 AM UTC+2, Steve Haynal wrote:

Hi Joe,

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Joe,

I'm not sure what that ALEX button does, but if you go to Setup->Hardware Config and enable Alex on that screen and then do what Reid described it should work. I just tried it and it works. GP7 will switch for RX and TX for the bands you specify.

To use this ALEX button, someone needs to study the code and wireshark traces and come back with a specific proposal such as "Do X in the Hermes-Lite when Y happens in the protocol."

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Probir]

Hello Reid,

 

Is there any further Work on HPSDR for HL2 is done.  At least with the present modification could you please send me a copy with perpetual time NOT 90 days WORKING software as I have been able to work with your modification for HL2.

 

But without your modification the HPSDR version I have is having difficulties with MOX.

 

73

Probir VU2BQF

 

From: Reid Campbell

Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 8:10 PM

To: herme...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: MCP23008 GP7

 

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Steve, yes I know. It works but we dont have button on software front panel.

73, Joe

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Probir,

I'm still working in the back ground on other mods but the weather has been to good to do coding, so the farm is getting all the attention. There will be a new release before the 90 days time limit. I would also like to figure out how to do a proper release rather than the zipped up snap shot but not for the next release.

For the next release,

• The mute button is back. Did you even know it had gone away? It's functionality was coded out for some reason, don't know why? I'm not sure it behaves in all conditions but it's back.

• I plan to limit the functionality on the Alex page to what the HL2 can handle, which is just the RX1 check box. It will also play right without the one of the other antenna radio button being selected.

• I have been playing with variable mouse wheel frequency scrolling depending on rate of turn of the wheel. It's tricky because there are several variables to take into consideration. It probability wont make the next release, or it might on experimental basis.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT 

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

Are you sure you have selected the Antenna 2 radio button as shown on
the setting panel? The "Rx Ant" will turn green and when clicked change
to "TX Ant" with blue background.

I think Steve just confirmed it.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

[Joe LB1HI]

You maybe do not understand me. I wrote already in the post above that it works. 

But feature to select between receive or transmit antenna for receiving has no control.

You can turn it on and it stays that way. There is no toggle.

Do we have to go to the setup each time to change between the two antennas?  :-) 

Joe, LB1HI

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Reid and Steve,

Sri but I know what I'm saying.

The RX Ant button only changes color. But it doesn't control the GP7 P13 pin. It just doesn't work. Nothing changes on GP7

There is voltage 3.3 Volt all the time

Joe

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

OK, we have established that the "Rx Ant" button is changing text and colour but the GP7 is not changing. Can you confirm what gateway version you a have loaded?

Cheers

Reid.

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Reid,

It doesn't matter what gateware. Just must be 71p2 and above.

Does not work on any versions of 71p2 or 71p3

73, Joe
PS. did you measure the signal on GP7/P13? 

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[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

I ran the original PowerSDR against the simulator and I can see there is a bug where selecting RX1 doesn't select the "Rx Ant" button on the console. The trick of enabling "Ant 1" just cause the wrong bits to flip.

I have it nearly fixed in the custom HL2 PowerSDR release, if that will help you.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Joe LB1HI]

SRI but I still don't understand you.

I have to correct you because it's not like you wrote.

choosing RX1 or RX2 has nothing to do with activating the RX Ant button on the front panel.

73, Joe

PS. The RX1 field functionality does not need to be fixed. works well. The selected field in the RX1 column on any band controls GP7 high.

The RX Ant button on the front panel does not work (even if it changes its appearance after clicking)

I wrote earlier that the box in column 2 is checked. It only causes the visual activation of the RX Ant button. The color and text change but it does not work/does not control GP7.

PS2. I wrote about it already  a month ago on May 23

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[Matthew]

Hi Joe,

I would encourage you to pause and look at this from a different perspective.

Historically, through this project, special HL2 features haven't been supported by PowerSDR. Reid has very kindly started adding some special HL2 support. He has also previously mentioned GUI based code wasn't his area of expertise. So we must commend someone for pursuing the "self-learning" aspect of our hobby and learning new things. I'm sure he has a long to do list of things he would like to add, test and allow others to use. This takes time. I'm sure a farm doesn't run itself.

I see your request as a user experience enhancement. The *function* you want is there right now, you would just prefer it in a different part of the user interface. You must understand that this would make it a lower priority than some other things? With some motivation one could have learnt the basics of software and made the change to PowerSDR (the source code is open source and on github) to function how you wish in the time span of this thread.

I would urge you to demonstrate some patience and consider how your approach may be perceived by others.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Joe LB1HI]

Reid you wrote :
     ...." For some reason, you have to select Antenna 2 or 3  and RX1.".....

Reid
 It's not for some reason. This is OK so.

Logic indicates that if in the antenna tab, on the  left side receive

you choose 1 it will not be declared that antenna for receive and button RX Ant on the front panel will be not active because you will not switch the same antenna on itself. 
*As a reminder, antenna 1 is the transmitting antenna in your settings on the screenshot.   

Maybe more clearly:
 In position 1, it is set that for receiving the transmit antenna will be used. So the button is inactive because you can't switch from a transmitting antenna to a transmitting antenna. This happens if the same antenna is declared fo receive and transmit.  There is no need for switching.  The transmitting antenna in this case number 1 is already declared to receive. If button RX Ant will be active it misses sense and logic. As explained above. Rights?

However, the truth is that you can select any antenna in any column  1, 2, or 3 to activate the RX Ant button on the software front panel. The only condition is that. That it cannot be the same antenna number or it must be different from the antenna number for TX. It is placed on the right side of this same Antenna Control tab.  

73, Jozef 

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 4:40:43 PM UTC+2, Reid Campbell wrote:

Hi Joe,

If you set-up the Alex screen as below the Rx Ant button will work for 20M. For some reason you have to select Antenna 2 or 3  and RX1. The 1, 2 & 3 select the output antenna relay which is not in a HL2 but will flip the protocol bits, again not used in HL2 yet. Selecting RX1 will cause the correct bit to be flipped to control GP7.

Cheers

Reid
Mi0BOT/Gi8TME

On 22/06/2020 11:19, Joe LB1HI wrote:

Hi,

What are the chances that the RX antenna button will work ? ( controlling GP7 on / off)

73,s , Joe

lb1hi

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[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

First I need to describe how the system should work, well my understanding of it.

The "Rx Ant"/"Tx Ant" button on the front panel is to allow you to change between a separate receive antenna and the Tx antenna. Now the important bit is where that separate receive antenna input is coming from.

The PowerSDR software is setup to control the Alex LPF/BPF associated with the Hermes system. The Alex boards have 3 antenna connects which are relay switched. These are control on the Alex set-up page by the radio buttons.



The relays are separately controlled for Rx and Tx, so you can specify that you will Tx on ant 1 but receive on ant 2. Now the "Rx Ant"/"Tx Ant" button on the front panel will be active and you can switch between the two antenna.

There is also Rx only inputs on the Alex boards and a transverter input. To select RX1 you check the box for the particular box.
So now we again have separate Rx and Tx antennas but the "Rx Ant"/"Tx Ant" button is not active. It should be to allow the switching and I think this is a bug.

Be aware that antenna selecting radio buttons 2 and 3 will take preference and they use a different part of the protocol, so the "Rx Ant"/"Tx Ant" button will be active but flipping the wrong bits.  

I have a fix for this but I have an issue where the selection of the Alex functionality is not saved over a power cycle, which I need to sort.

Hopefully I have explained it correctly but if anybody knows different, shout.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Joe LB1HI]

Reid,

It is also logical that the RX ANT button on the front panel normally switches between antennas declared for reception and transmission. (Marked with red rectangles.)

It is also a fact that the RX column has been repurposed to control GP7.

So going further repurpose also requires the operation of the RX Ant button on the front panel to affect the column RX1 marked with a green oval.

And if it turns out to be difficult to do for some reason, I will soon suggest an alternative proposition for cycling. Repurpose ALEX buttons for interaction on the RX1 column, or for completely decoding the Alex tab. Maybe it would be easier to accomplish.

I hope that now you understand Reid

73, Joe

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[Reid Campbell]

Hi Matthew,

This is something I have been working on in the background for a while and was slated for the next release to support the PA. Maybe Joe can be a beta tester for it?

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Matthew,

Thank you, Mathew, for constructive, balanced words.

If someone advises me with an obvious mistake, I see that it is necessary to immediately correct it because not only I read it but the whole group.

                                .........."I see your request as a user experience enhancement. The * function * you want is there right now, you would just prefer it in a different part of the user interface .......

I will not agree with you because these are not my preferences. It is obvious that switching from one antenna to another during listening can not take place somewhere deep in the settings.

                                   ...... your approach may be perceived ....

I think it is better not to leave unexplained mistakes that could harm other readers. Readers reading in good faith to better and more efficiently use purchased equipment.

But I agree more diplomacy will never hurt.

I spent also hundreds of hours testing hard and software to make Hermes Lite better for everyone. (It would be preferable not to waste time explaining again something that I wrote a month ago that it works and instead just to say let's keep going.)
  

Patience here is noteworthy, because I have already described the issues of RX1 operation and positive performance on May 23, and it's been a month since I was looking for a solution to assign this function to a button on the front panel. So the time has come for proposal/suggestions on how to repurpose maybe the ALEX button as an alternative.A

What we have at the moment is to keep the setup/settings window open all the time.  and click on the RX1 column to antenna toggle. It will fulfill its role, though not very practical and not ergonomically

73, Joe
lb1hi

[Joe LB1HI]

Forgotten attachment

 

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

The bug has been fixed in the custom PowerSDR, so "Rx Ant/"Tx Ant" button work for all selections of receive antenna, no need for repurposing the Alex button. Not completely sure what it does anyway, but plan to disable it in case it cause some strange effects. I will be hiding/disabling other controls on the Alex page which will also be renamed to  "Ant/Filters"



Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Joe LB1HI]

He Reid,
Which button on the front panel activates/deactivates this RX1 column after you fix?

Well, after all, probably not  RX Ant button because he switches / toggle (and this is not a bug) between the fields receive and transmit marked with a red frame.

Ps. I am open to constructive discussion

73, Joe

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi, 
So I can prepare one more computer for these purposes. I'd be happy to assist. Time will somehow also be found though it is not always so optimistic. (school-age daughter)

Joe

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[Reid Campbell]

Hi Joe,

It uses the "Rx Ant"/"Tx Ant" button. It is the correct button for the functionality. In the current HL2 there is only one option for the selection of a different receive antenna. Maybe in the future, there will be the equivalent of the 3 antenna switches but that would require another I2c decoder. I think I have fixed the functionality such that that will work correctly as well.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Reid,

I hope it works with Steve's gateway which includes the last pull up  request by Matthew accepted recently in May.
 And hope that after pressing "Rx Ant" / "Tx Ant" button the GP7 status changes to high and vice versa. If so, it would be good for everyone that you give it to more than two hundred HL2 users.

73, Joe

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[Steve Haynal]

Thanks Reid and Joe for working on this. I'm sure PowerSDR users will appreciate the easier and more intuitive switching.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Group,

After PowerSDR, now SparkSDR also joins the software that enables antenna switching. 

There is also additional technical information on how to physically use this control in this post on the SparkSDR forum.

https://groups.google.com/g/sparksdr/c/yUSfXIA7Qmg/m/mQC27ck-CAAJ

73, Joe LB1HI

[Matthew]

I must clarify one point - by design, in the gateware MCP23008 GP7 is independent of PTT. I want to be able to listen on a different band while transmitting (using the dedicated RX input on the HL2).

Thinking about this, there are potentially 3 cases that people may want: independent of PTT, PTT engages to turn on RX input (for PureSignal), PTT engages and has opposite behaviour. This would need additional gateware and extra control in the protocol. However, If PTT changing the state of the RX antenna relay is required, this can easily be achieved with the appropriate hardware logic based on PTT line and GP7 (both on the N2ADR board).

Regarding software doing this switching depending on state of PTT, I personally don't like the idea. High power RF, sensitive RX inputs and antenna switching not at the exact same time (as the HL2 is going it in hardware) seems like it has potential for bad consequences.

In hindsight I think it would have been maybe easier to have no association with these Alex control bits and used a completely different part of the protocol for that function I implemented. Then there is no confusion of expected behaviour.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Alan Hopper]

Hi Joe, Matthew, Group,

Joe is jumping the gun a little on this, the feature in spark is just a test and does not do what he wanted due to some confusion over what the gateware does. I've not really been following this discussion but Matthews comments make sense to me. There are only so many things that can be changed at once in the packet that has the change of ptt and we also have to allow for the ptt being changed by the radio.  I think I need to understand all the possible uses a bit more.  Using synchronous HL2s will add another level of complication on antenna selection.

So what does everyone's perfect antenna selection option look like? 

73 Alan M0NNB   

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Matthew, Alan, Group
Yes. This is true of yesterday's tests of the new button and its functionality in SparkSDR.
The new button on Spark is the equivalent of the Rx Ant button on the PowerHPSDR mRX PS.
The functionality in the PowerHPSDR mRX PS is already correct. Prevents accidental transmitting in to the receiving antenna.
During transmission, it turns off the receiving antenna control relay off . This guarantees that we will always transmit only on the transmitting antenna. 

73, Joe LB1HI

[Alan Hopper]

Hi Joe & group, 

To achieve what you want at the moment relies on the software switching the gp7 on ptt, there are a number of issues with this.  Your use is just one case, Matthew's use is different (if I understand) and would require a different software setting. Now we are moving to higher powers we have to be more careful about relying on software to protect things. It is too easy to forget these settings on moving between different software, computers, radios etc especially when the radio is remote.  We are in the good position that pretty much all the software being used has active HL development.  If we are going to rely on software to protect things we should try to do it the same way in all software but I don't see this as a good solution. My feeling is this sort of protection should be done in hardware.

The current situation guarentees that you can have the software in a state that is bad :)

73 Alan M0NNB

[Matthew]

Joe,

I'm not sure how you have the relay configured with your transmit and receive antennas. But please do not use PowerSDR behaviour of GP7 to assume that you guarantee you do not transmit into receiver input. Look at these 2 control lines on a scope and observe they do not toggle at the same time. I discussed this here further up the thread.

My use case can be found here:

https://github.com/m5evt/HL2-MRF101/blob/master/HL2_MRF101.pdf

You will note:

- There is a "main" TX/RX relay (k12);

- In RX mode, this allows reception on the antenna that is normally used for TX

- Between HL2 RF 3 and the main TX/RX relay is the RX antenna relay (k11).

I must be clear: PC software controlling GP7 dependent on PTT state (i.e. like PowerSDR does) does not guarantee you do not transmit into the RX. You rely on a packet going from the HL2 to the PC, the PC processing this packet and the PC sending a packet back to the HL2. PowerSDR does not send packets in a regular fashion. There are potentially very long delays between the HL2 PTT engaging and the PC sending back the control signal to the HL2. During this time the TX power could already be high (and you RX relay will not have turned "off" yet).

It is not quite a guarantee, but it is very likely (depending on settings) that TX power would be present before the RX relay has turned off with PowerSDR toggling GP7 depending on PTT state.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Joe LB1HI]

Matthew,
Do you consider using TX inhibit as an added security?

Any other suggestions for alternatives e.g. synchronization?

73, Joe 

[Matthew]

Hi Joe,

I think it is a nice simple problem that you can design whatever switching variant you want using logic gates controlled by GP7 and EXTTR.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Joe LB1HI]

Hi Matthew,
The function of controlling the receiving antenna through the GP7 according to the protocol corresponds to the assumptions and intended use. In PowerSDR, protocol 1 works perfectly with other radios such as e.g. Annan for many years.

But if you have any ideas for extra security, that's fine, because extra caution won't hurt

73, Joe 

[Alan Hopper]

Hi Matthew,

Am I right in thinking that your use does not want gp7 automatically set low on tx?

If this is the case there then needs to be a software option to switch between your's and Joe's behaviour if it is handled by software, this is asking for trouble.

If it is not the case I think the switching would be best in firmware if not in hardware.

I very much agree that the right place is in the hardware, this way your custom hardware is protected from all the issues of different gateware, software, bugs and human setting error.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Matthew]

Hi Alan,

Yes, I do not want GP7 changed dependent on TX/PTT state. I want to continue to listen on RX ant while I tx on a different band. I would expect digital/skimming folk would also want this too? Then you can still skim while transmitting.

73 Matthew M5EVT.