Re: Proposal Remove live web cameras

[Mike Wolfson]

I agree with Eric and I think the cameras need to be removed (at least ones that point into the lab that show people).

I actually proposed upgrading these previously and it was voted down.  People don't want higher res cameras. I sincerely wish whoever put up the new cameras checked these initial discussions (discussionA and discussionB), because now I think the cameras should be removed entirely.  While I appreciate the nature of do-acracy, the camera upgrade was probably not something that should have been done under this umbrella.

We probably always should have got legal consent for everyone entering the lab, and I researched the legal implications, which seem to indicate that having a live feed without consent is probably not legal (and definitely not in the spirit of privacy).

From Gemini, an answer to if you need legal consent to broadcast someone's face:

Yes, you generally need legal consent to broadcast a person's face in Mesa, Arizona. Arizona is a "one-party consent" state when it comes to recording conversations, but this does not extend to broadcasting someone's image without their permission.

Here's why:

• Right to Privacy: Individuals have a right to privacy, and using their likeness without consent can be considered a violation of that right.
• Misappropriation of Likeness: Broadcasting someone's face without their consent could be considered misappropriation of likeness, especially if you are using their image for commercial purposes. This means you are using their image to gain a benefit without their permission.

Exceptions:

There are some exceptions to this rule:

• Public Places: If the person is in a public place where they have no reasonable expectation of privacy, you may not need consent. However, this can be a gray area, so it's best to err on the side of caution.
• Newsworthy Events: If the person is part of a newsworthy event, you may be able to broadcast their image without consent. However, this exception is generally limited to legitimate news reporting.

Best Practices:

• Obtain Consent: The best way to avoid legal issues is to obtain written consent from the person before you broadcast their face.
• Consult an Attorney: If you have any questions about whether you need consent in a specific situation, it's always best to consult with an attorney.

Important Note: Laws regarding privacy and broadcasting can be complex and vary depending on the specific circumstances. This information is for general guidance only and not legal advice.

On Monday, December 23, 2024 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-7 Eric wrote:

Hey Lab,

The upgraded and higher resolution cameras for the main space in the lab make me very uncomfortable. I'm proposing that we remove them.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

It's just an idea until there's a date and time included.

[Heather Jackson]

I had someone stalk me using the heatsync labs cameras in the 2018 timeframe, and generally don’t love the cameras for that reason. 

The card access dynamic improves safety inside the lab, but leaving could still be risky in that situation. 

I haven’t come up with better ideas to show equipment availability and have not taken any initiative to improve things, so I do want to recognize the value added activity of those who have made it possible for potential visitors to check equipment availability and whether a host might be present. 

Heather

On Dec 23, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Mike Wolfson <mwol...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with Eric and I think the cameras need to be removed (at least ones that point into the lab that show people).

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/5cb987c6-9e99-400a-bc79-dd39f4b9d79fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Harry Meier]

Good perspectives. Here are a few thoughts from the eaves over here. I'm not at the lab enough to have a real say, but I work with a lot of camera systems.

A couple potential solutions could be zooming more lower res cameras on workstations to show work being done without showing the people doing it. The other direction would be higher end cameras with built in people blurring and masking. As for the "Is there a host present?" question, a physical button or throw switch to trigger a change on the website might be better than a camera, since the presence of a person on cam doesn't necessarily mean a person willing to host.

-Harry

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/169D36EB-7C7D-4CE1-8FC7-2C90C92029BD%40gmail.com.

[Antonio Contrisciani]

I concur. This change should never have occurred without a vote. This continues q very concerning trend of stepping over the lines of do ocracy. In the past we always erred on the side of caution, if someone thought something could be a proposal, it was made a proposal to be on the safe side. Sure this delayed improvements but it made sure the membership was on board. In the last year or two changes have been made without consulting the greater membership at a worrying pace.

I have always been a big proponent of more cameras but focused on the machines and even I feel these newer high Res cameras are over the line.

Not only do I support the proposal for removal I think in the interest of safety and privacy the board needs to step in at this juncture and disable them or roll back the changes until the proposal can be voted.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAP0%2Bp37z1neEwBdNf5Vo%3DPD7QJWQ2BBd%3DNyHXcWu_bj0QSNm1g%40mail.gmail.com.

[sherman mohler]

I for sure am not in love with the general public having access to our cameras....

Is there any way of putting the feeds in the "members only" section of the website? Or, are there still "creepiness" issues with them even being there? I ask because, as someone who holds HeatSync open to the public, I know at least once I had an angry vagrant cruise in and start looking for stuff to grab. I politely asked him if he has a project and he became very confrontational. To be able to point up to the camera and be able to say "whatever you do next may end up being sent to the Mesa Police" stopped him cold.

Cheers,

-- Sherman

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CALmAu84fEim_3_odK%2ByZB8i9wr_Y33mD5pisJw%2Bu9wQr3N-tfg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jot Powers]

I like the cameras as they are. 

• We added a camera to the entry, which I think is a great idea, given some of the challenges we've had there.
• They are useful to see if there is someone in the lab using equipment that you might want to use.
• We've needed the footage from the cameras in regards to crime.  Specifically when we were broken into by someone just looking for valuables to steal.
• The footage isn't generally available and requires a board vote to make accessible (even when we provided it to the police)
• The idea there is some sort of button/etc that would allow people check-in if they're hosting, I don't think will ever work.  Not out of malice, just out of people forgetting.
• I'm also not sure why we're advocating for going back to 640x480 like god intended, as some sort of better setup.  (I'm kidding.  But the idea that some how resolution is a real problem, strikes me as odd).
• The snapshots on the main page are just that, snap shots. Sure, could some build a web scraper to then capture them all and stitch them together to create movies at the blistering pace of 12 frames per minute?  Yes.  I just don't see that as a real issue.
• I view them as essential safety equipment.  Will they stop a problem?  Nope.  Will they help us in the case of a bunch of unforseen problems.  Maybe.
  
• Also, the board exists because we have to have a board.  The number of times the royal we says something like "The board should just..." is too damn high.

IMO.  YMMV.  IANAL.

Merry Festivus or the other holiday greeting of your choice.

-Jot

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/1307482472.3722247.1735068525478%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Antonio Contrisciani]

Sherman there are high Def cameras for security and the board already all over the building inside and out.

On Tue, Dec 24, 2024, 12:52 Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jot, I'm confused by some of what you are saying. We have two sets of cameras (Security & Webcams) some of this reads as though the live cameras provide the features of the security cameras. The primary benefit to the live cameras is so people can see if the lab is busy/in use/or cool stuff is happening. Do they also store the data somewhere for review? If so I somehow forgot or never knew this.

Sherman, we also do have security cameras constantly recording for this purpose. I proposed them years ago and we probably need more now.

Heather, I am so sorry to learn that you had a stalker using the lab cameras. This is a huge concern, but I didn't list all the pros and cons in my succinct proposal because there are many.

Everyone,
Jeff has a difficult role of IT Manager and should be appreciated for the effort he is putting into it. This was a small part of him attempting to improve IT around the lab. He has so many other challenges in this role including sorting out all the account administration, fixing firewall issues, much more that I don't know the half of. The other thread had a lot of positive comments showing appreciation for my efforts. Jeff deserves to be appreciated even when we aren't all in agreement. Perhaps especially when we aren't all in agreement. We will sort out what the community wants and Jeff and hopefully sometimes others will help keep the IT stuff working for us as it should.

Things online or in text often come off as very abrasive, but Jeff and I have talked about this and we know we disagree on things. That's expected. Having different perspectives is valuable although frustrating at times.

I'll take the next couple days off before responding to anything new. Please have a great holiday.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAA8b9rqpZz222WtDwPJH81WM4Jbawg7LH%2BSqLKjSkvV4OBymSQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDFWdbJwW35F_xfKukHLFLqOVNk%3DhLY%2Bd-GMNYgH3Lbjw%40mail.gmail.com.

[sherman mohler]

Awesome! I'll ask Eric to get me more details on the security cameras (as opposed to the webcams) next time I see him.

-- Sherman

[Gabriel Finke]

Agreed, I do wonder if we can create a less invasive system to count people that are in frame and update the count every 15-30 min on our front end. The feed is invasive but think we can come up with an alternative system.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/1539337887.3179421.1735140233649%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Jot Powers]

I thought the web cams were the security cameras.  If that's not the case,  those points withdrawn. :)

On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 12:52 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jot, I'm confused by some of what you are saying. We have two sets of cameras (Security & Webcams) some of this reads as though the live cameras provide the features of the security cameras. The primary benefit to the live cameras is so people can see if the lab is busy/in use/or cool stuff is happening. Do they also store the data somewhere for review? If so I somehow forgot or never knew this.

Sherman, we also do have security cameras constantly recording for this purpose. I proposed them years ago and we probably need more now.

Heather, I am so sorry to learn that you had a stalker using the lab cameras. This is a huge concern, but I didn't list all the pros and cons in my succinct proposal because there are many.

Everyone,
Jeff has a difficult role of IT Manager and should be appreciated for the effort he is putting into it. This was a small part of him attempting to improve IT around the lab. He has so many other challenges in this role including sorting out all the account administration, fixing firewall issues, much more that I don't know the half of. The other thread had a lot of positive comments showing appreciation for my efforts. Jeff deserves to be appreciated even when we aren't all in agreement. Perhaps especially when we aren't all in agreement. We will sort out what the community wants and Jeff and hopefully sometimes others will help keep the IT stuff working for us as it should.

Things online or in text often come off as very abrasive, but Jeff and I have talked about this and we know we disagree on things. That's expected. Having different perspectives is valuable although frustrating at times.

I'll take the next couple days off before responding to anything new. Please have a great holiday.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 12:43 PM Jot Powers <jot.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAA8b9rqpZz222WtDwPJH81WM4Jbawg7LH%2BSqLKjSkvV4OBymSQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDFWdbJwW35F_xfKukHLFLqOVNk%3DhLY%2Bd-GMNYgH3Lbjw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gabriel Finke]

Yeah the webcams are separate. The security cams are wired into a DVR

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAA8b9rp1jCUmdxi7NhCc%3Dq4WXHZyQVXAu%2BNekCBTZ2UsYp-azg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gwyneth Gordon]

I have used the cameras to check in if equipment is in use, and this is certainly a convenience. However, they also make me uncomfortable for safety reasons particularly with the higher resolution. Having someone being able to see me working near close with few / no people in the lab and then I have to walk to my car is not a good feeling. Can someone look through the window and see me working? Sure - but then you can also see that person watching you. 

Having the security cameras not publicly available (except by police or Board in the case of crime), with cameras focused on highly used equipment like the laser cutters and 3D printers seems a good compromise. 

I know I haven't been around as much and don't contribute as much in terms of labor as many others, but those are my thoughts. I'm very grateful for the tremendous volunteers that do put in so much work on keeping Heatsync available.

Gwyneth

[Cprossu]

I do find the cameras really useful at times just to check on use and if people are at the lab, but I do see the privacy issues, the fact the new cameras are good enough to recognize someone's face on, and the fact they have been used to stalk people is a huge and major issue.

I am curious though and I do like to attempt compromises, so if some code was changed and the webcam pictures/pages were downscaled to say 320x240 or similar before they are placed on the site, with an update every 30 seconds or so would it be enough degradation to not have to pull the cameras offline and keep this resource for people who use it for tool use? Other non compromising camera angles might want to be thought about too, but this is just an idea.

[Antonio Contrisciani]

Hindsight always kicks us all eric. Please dont beat yourself up. All anyone can ask is that you do your best going forward.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2024, 21:49 Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Keeping the original proposal text concise was deliberate. I know that I probably want to adjust it so that we can allow project or tool specific cameras such as the ones on the 3d printers.

I don't want to include to include in the scope of the proposal options or intentions of having other systems for tracking activity in the lab, but I don't want to limit creative efforts on that front. I liked the old mac address system that was opt in and would show you are at the lab. Not sure how complex that would be to fix or set up again, nor do I think it helpful to tack those onto this proposal or discussion.

The thing that bothers me the most is that I didn't care when it affected other people, just now that it makes me uncomfortable. I have known 3 people that do not come to the lab because of the cameras I don't know them well because they don't come back. Yet I only cared about this enough to make this proposal when I was too uncomfortable coming to the lab. I do care a lot that we include everyone who wants to make stuff and I knew that the cameras created a barrier for some people. Yet that wasn't enough for me to at least make the proposal and see how the community would respond.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/6259f1c9-93ee-46fe-92be-4fa2baf79123n%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDUcAeetPUHba82o_jQK%2BLS7%2B7CDgAYc75aqp1a99wk%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jeff Sittler]

First, the camera is not "new" but a replacement for an outdated/failing camera.  As Operations, one of our responsibilities is to maintain/replace equipment as needed.  That particular camera had been slated to be replaced for quite awhile and there was a lot of discussion around it.  Sadly, the discussions were not documented but held at varius times during HYH and at the lab.  The camera was replaced due to routine maintenance.

Second, there had been several complaints about the camera not showing "enough" to determine certain equipment (3D printers/Sewing) was being used or if it was available.

Third, for as long as I can remember, there has been cameras at the lab.  This is not something "new".  Members who come to the space know that the cameras have been there.

Eric, I am not sure why you are bringing this up now, with it making you "uncomfortable", especially since the camera(s) have been there for years.  The resolution was only a minor bump up in improvement (1280x720) and has a wider angle.  It is not like we went to 4K resolution.  As I have mentioned to you several times, I myself don't like being on camera either, but I know it is there and it is something I just deal with when I am at the lab.  The greater benefit outweighs my "uncomfortableness" and I am just thankful that the lab is there for a place for me to go and use things. And yes, I have checked the camera to see if something was being used prior to making the drive to the lab just to find out a piece of equipment was already being used and I wasted my time driving there.

So, with all that being said, I really don't care anymore about what is decided upon.

[Cprossu]

Not to sound like a broken record but this has been the topic for a proposal to update the cameras several times 
https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/9VkP-YPqYV0/m/5CRUJZmTAQAJ
https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/lVFR6sASrUg/m/0xWZTRKiAgAJ

This was brought up for proposal, but I cannot find the HYH that approved it, and of courser there was an older attempt made,

https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/C9iD5N3QI4Q/m/dySlOAXlAwAJ

and every time the consensus was that although people did want slightly better resolution on the cameras, they did not want it to be as it is now due to privacy concerns. I do not know if any HYH approved the updating of the cameras, and if so, please link it, but this has always been something that was not supposed to be upgraded as a do-ocracy thing due to people feeling uncomfortable, and care was to be taken on the positions of said cameras as well.

I know this is frustrating for those who put their time, money, and effort into updating things at the lab, and those old cameras were awful, failed continuously, and some were quite literally duck taped together (I know, I disabled the servos on many, hacked together way too many wallwarts, and probably sacrificed some animals during my stint as ops), so the question was not if they should be replaced, but what with, and if possible to maintain privacy and comfort. Not having any documentation or note up here on the groups makes it hard to tell when things were updated and what with. I really encourage people to at least make an effort to post here on the groups especially when something big is changed in the lab that might effect everything. I'd rather have a good discussion on something, find out all the good angles, and do nothing than end up with a bunch of people feeling uncomfortable or alienated that they were not a part of the process. Some things take time, some things never get done, it's just how things go around here.

On Friday, December 27, 2024 at 2:47:31 PM UTC-7 Eric wrote:

Eric, I am not sure why you are bringing this up now, with it making you "uncomfortable", especially since the camera(s) have been there for years.

I am not "bringing it up now" I brought this up when it was discussed to you on multiple occasions. I was clearly opposed to having the cameras changed and liked that the details were not super clear. As Mike posted it has come up in documented threads in the past. Fortunately the community can officially weigh in next month.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 2:33 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Before and after showing the difference. I think it's a significant difference. Many people that seem to be in favor of the cameras also mention they are uncomfortable to some degree with either being on camera or whatever. Thanks for your additional perspective.

Yes at night or when the lights are not on is when the difference is most significant.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/555c1d6e-ac8f-4d72-9f2c-2441df644e61n%40googlegroups.com.

[Chris McLaughlin]

I would be for moving the feed of the webcams behind a member wall online. I do not know how we could do that. But to just stream it out to the world is concerning for safety.

[Mike Wolfson]

If we do intend to leave these cameras up with any sort of live feed, we will need to properly inform our members and get their consent.  I think we probably needed to be doing that all along.  This could be an extra paragraph in our member agreement, but it will need to be added (and signed by our members).

But, the discussion I brought up would have to be for a different proposal (for a plan for keeping the live cameras) - because Eric proposed removing them, which is all his proposal addressed.

[Linda Krecker]

I talked with Eric on Saturday. I'm somewhat neutral to the higher resolution cameras but do understand his concern. 

I also agree with Mike that consent should have been asked since the beginning. Anyone who walks into the space is on the live camera whether or not they gave consent. This is problematic especially when minors are involved. In situations like that, signs are visible saying that anyone in a particular space might be recorded. 

Even with the less resolution cameras, signage really needs to be in place. 

So, I believe that this is a greater issue than just a high or low resolution camera. But rather its a question of consent to be on the Internet. 

Linda Brett

Co-Sewing Champion

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/998cc1ab-a9d2-4467-bf5f-46ffdf451582n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Linda S K Brett, Ph.D.

Artist  |  Educator

Designing Art Studio

31 W 9th St  |  Mesa, AZ 85201

602-540-7143

botan...@gmail.com

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/lindabrett

[Nate Caine]

Using the camera to focus on work areas (instead of people) has merit, but I'm worried that we'd then occasionally be featuring on our website either 3d-printed dildoes, or obscene laser-cut Christmas decorations.

The issues about kids shown on camera is valid. Why wasn't this brought in the past and already addressed? The cameras have been in use for a dozen years.

Typically, I check the webcam to see who's at the lab. Often a reminder to myself bring in a circuit board I'd promised to a member, or to touch bases with an expert on the 3d-printers. Also, to remind members about laser clean-up and logging their job.

I was surprised how well the camera works in low-light. After hours we can now see things beyond just a dark blob outline moving around late at night. I check cameras before bed-time just in case something is amiss.

With the wide-angle lens you can see more than just the center aisle; including the 3D-printers and sewing areas, which the previous limited camera cut off completely.

Modern cameras have "privacy zones" and you can blur a fixed rectangle region, but with folks moving around, that feature doesn't seem usable here.

With the current complaints about the FRONT door camera, why have these same issues not been (previously) applied to the LASER camera as well, or the HALLWAY camera?

The new camera as been online for about a month now, but the "take down" proposal just recently appeared. I hope this was not in response to some critical comments (elsewhere) about a questioned non-proposal-proposal for a CNC router.

[Sheldon McGee]

So far I would vote against this proposal. There are other solutions to the problems presented beside removing something that many find useful. Maybe there are other problems not detailed but the lack of detail is another reason to vote against this proposal. 

My logic is likely off but to me it's like proposing we get rid of the table saw because it could hurt someone. 

It's a nice thing to be explicit about what exactly we publish and how often (as well as what we do with footage we don't publish!) and post it around the lab. That seems like something any of us could take on and just do given a little time from Operations to get the details right. 

I also don't like being on camera. But they come in handy for so many things I think we should come up with something other than to remove them. The problem, of course, is that any proposal beside "remove them" could be a significant amount of work that depends on the Operations team. Anyone up for working on plans for a counter proposal? I like the idea of using AI to blur people's faces personally. That seems like something we could get running on something as low power as a Raspberry Pi . . . . that said I don't know all the details in how those images are currently processed, how often they are updated, as well as what other options might be easy as a short term fix like making them lower resolution, adding a time delay, etc. 

Sheldon

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/e461f1a1-f52f-41b5-a772-18bb807e4562n%40googlegroups.com.

[Antonio Contrisciani]

There's nothing new here. This has been a concern with the public cameras for years. As for it only being brought up a month after they were installed it was the first I had heard of a change as well. If it was communicated to the membership this change was coming or was communicated it occurred it was not done effectively as a lot of us were unaware until Eric raised his concerns.

I find it kind of insulting to insinuate that something that's been discussed multiple times, at hyh and on the groups regarding privacy and public cameras is only now being brought up as some sort of retaliatory strike.

Not even two months ago I was at hyh discussing proposed changes to my station including adding cameras on every printer and we discussed privacy concerns and why the low resolution cameras were specifically left in place. So this isn't a new thing nor is it in retaliation for anything. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/e461f1a1-f52f-41b5-a772-18bb807e4562n%40googlegroups.com.

[SM Newstead]

Changing it to members only will not change the harassment aspect. I have also experienced it. That being said, I am totally indifferent. 

[William Olney]

There are two different threads here:

Security cameras and live feed:

Security cameras should be as high resolution as possible to be able to identify someone in case of a crime committed but with limited availability.

Live feed should be separate and at low resolution and/or face obscured but to show the public what is going on to promote interest and include a disclaimer at the door that is happening.

Everywhere you go you are recorded...  walk into a circle k or quick trip and they have cameras everywhere recording, but not broadcast.

On Monday, December 30, 2024 at 7:43:15 PM UTC-7 mib....@gmail.com wrote:

[Arnob Kabir]

Just want to point out that this is one of the first things you see when looking us up...

[Robert Bushman]

Thanks for creating a good proposal with useful variants, Eric! :)

I wish I were able to be more involved.


On 1/7/25 19:15, Eric Ose wrote:
> I'm amending the proposal as follows:
>
> This proposal is to remove the live webcams from the internet.
>
> This is only regarding the live cameras showing the lab and people in the
> lab on the website, not the cameras focused on projects or tools. Nor is it
> regarding the security cameras.
>
> Here is a non exhaustive list of possibilities in line with this proposal:
> A: Disable them by whatever means so they don't show on the website
> B: Reuse them as project cams not focused on the people in the lab
> C: Configure them for security cameras to record, but not live viewing on
> the website

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We added a camera to the entry, which I think is a

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great idea, given some of the challenges we've had there.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - They are useful to see if there is someone in the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lab using equipment that you might want to use.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We've needed the footage from the cameras in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards to crime. Specifically when we were broken into by someone just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking for valuables to steal.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - The footage isn't generally available and requires

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a board vote to make accessible (even when we provided it to the police)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - The idea there is some sort of button/etc that

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would allow people check-in if they're hosting, I don't think will ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. Not out of malice, just out of people forgetting.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - I'm also not sure why we're advocating for going

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back to 640x480 like god intended, as some sort of better setup. (I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kidding. But the idea that some how resolution is a real problem, strikes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me as odd).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - The snapshots on the main page are just that, snap

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shots. Sure, could some build a web scraper to then capture them all and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stitch them together to create movies at the blistering pace of 12 frames
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per minute? Yes. I just don't see that as a real issue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - I view them as essential safety equipment. Will

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they stop a problem? Nope. Will they help us in the case of a bunch of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unforseen problems. Maybe.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Also, the board exists because we have to have a

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/9VkP-YPqYV0/m/Ttllw6PJAAAJ>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upgrading these previously and it was voted down. People don't want higher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> res cameras. I sincerely wish whoever put up the new cameras checked these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> initial discussions (discussionA

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/lVFR6sASrUg/m/0xWZTRKiAgAJ>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and discussionB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/C9iD5N3QI4Q/m/dySlOAXlAwAJ>),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because *now I think the cameras should be removed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entirely. *While I appreciate the nature of do-acracy,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the camera upgrade was probably not something that should have been done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under this umbrella.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We probably always should have got legal consent for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone entering the lab, and I researched the legal implications, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem to indicate that having a live feed without consent is probably not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal (and definitely not in the spirit of privacy).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From Gemini, an answer to if you need legal consent to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadcast someone's face:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Yes, you generally need legal consent to broadcast a

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's face in Mesa, Arizona. Arizona is a "one-party consent" state when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it comes to recording conversations, but this does not extend to

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadcasting someone's image without their permission.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Here's why:*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Right to Privacy: Individuals have a right to

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privacy, and using their likeness without consent can be considered a

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> violation of that right.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Misappropriation of Likeness: Broadcasting

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone's face without their consent could be considered misappropriation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of likeness, especially if you are using their image for commercial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes. This means you are using their image to gain a benefit without

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their permission.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Exceptions:*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *There are some exceptions to this rule:*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Public Places: If the person is in a public place

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they have no reasonable expectation of privacy, you may not need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consent. However, this can be a gray area, so it's best to err on the side

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of caution.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Newsworthy Events: If the person is part of a

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newsworthy event, you may be able to broadcast their image without consent.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, this exception is generally limited to legitimate news reporting.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Best Practices:*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Obtain Consent: The best way to avoid legal

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues is to obtain written consent from the person before you broadcast

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Consult an Attorney: If you have any questions

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about whether you need consent in a specific situation, it's always best to

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consult with an attorney.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Important Note: Laws regarding privacy and broadcasting

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be complex and vary depending on the specific circumstances. This

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information is for general guidance only and not legal advice.*

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 23, 2024 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-7 Eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Lab,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The upgraded and higher resolution cameras for the main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space in the lab make me very uncomfortable. I'm proposing that we remove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric Ose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robot Ambassador
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just an idea until there's a date and time included.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/5cb987c6-9e99-400a-bc79-dd39f4b9d79fn%40googlegroups.com

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/5cb987c6-9e99-400a-bc79-dd39f4b9d79fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/169D36EB-7C7D-4CE1-8FC7-2C90C92029BD%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/169D36EB-7C7D-4CE1-8FC7-2C90C92029BD%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAP0%2Bp37z1neEwBdNf5Vo%3DPD7QJWQ2BBd%3DNyHXcWu_bj0QSNm1g%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAP0%2Bp37z1neEwBdNf5Vo%3DPD7QJWQ2BBd%3DNyHXcWu_bj0QSNm1g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CALmAu84fEim_3_odK%2ByZB8i9wr_Y33mD5pisJw%2Bu9wQr3N-tfg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CALmAu84fEim_3_odK%2ByZB8i9wr_Y33mD5pisJw%2Bu9wQr3N-tfg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/1307482472.3722247.1735068525478%40mail.yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/1307482472.3722247.1735068525478%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAA8b9rqpZz222WtDwPJH81WM4Jbawg7LH%2BSqLKjSkvV4OBymSQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAA8b9rqpZz222WtDwPJH81WM4Jbawg7LH%2BSqLKjSkvV4OBymSQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDFWdbJwW35F_xfKukHLFLqOVNk%3DhLY%2Bd-GMNYgH3Lbjw%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDFWdbJwW35F_xfKukHLFLqOVNk%3DhLY%2Bd-GMNYgH3Lbjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/6259f1c9-93ee-46fe-92be-4fa2baf79123n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/6259f1c9-93ee-46fe-92be-4fa2baf79123n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDUcAeetPUHba82o_jQK%2BLS7%2B7CDgAYc75aqp1a99wk%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvDUcAeetPUHba82o_jQK%2BLS7%2B7CDgAYc75aqp1a99wk%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/555c1d6e-ac8f-4d72-9f2c-2441df644e61n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/555c1d6e-ac8f-4d72-9f2c-2441df644e61n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> To view this discussion visit

>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/998cc1ab-a9d2-4467-bf5f-46ffdf451582n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/998cc1ab-a9d2-4467-bf5f-46ffdf451582n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Linda S K Brett, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Artist | Educator
>>>>>> Designing Art Studio
>>>>>> 31 W 9th St | Mesa, AZ 85201

>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/31+W+9th+St+%C2%A0%7C+%C2%A0Mesa,+AZ+85201?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> 602-540-7143
>>>>>> *botan...@gmail.com*

>>>>>> Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/lindabrett
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>
>>>> To view this discussion visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/e461f1a1-f52f-41b5-a772-18bb807e4562n%40googlegroups.com

>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/e461f1a1-f52f-41b5-a772-18bb807e4562n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .

>>>>>
>>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "HeatSync Labs" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion visit

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/f87d1be4-353a-404a-aded-5eeb06907fcfn%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/f87d1be4-353a-404a-aded-5eeb06907fcfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

[Jot Powers]

Unless someone is committing to do options B &  C, I feel like they're strawmen and shouldn't be part of the proposal. 

On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 7:15 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm amending the proposal as follows:

This proposal is to remove the live webcams from the internet.

This is only regarding the live cameras showing the lab and people in the lab on the website, not the cameras focused on projects or tools. Nor is it regarding the security cameras.

Here is a non exhaustive list of possibilities in line with this proposal:

A: Disable them by whatever means so they don't show on the website

B: Reuse them as project cams not focused on the people in the lab

C: Configure them for security cameras to record, but not live viewing on the website

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 1:40 PM Arnob Kabir <arnobka...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/f87d1be4-353a-404a-aded-5eeb06907fcfn%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvCUQNS7u_wzg35afUE9QhMup3Mw3xpupdUKUbh9fmFQyQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jay McGavren]

"The idea there is some sort of button/etc that would allow people check-in if they're hosting, I don't think will ever work.  Not out of malice, just out of people forgetting."

I'm one of the folks who finds the low-res cameras useful for confirming there's an event going on. And I do not think any other solution will work as well.

I'm not saying not to remove them; the privacy concerns expressed are valid and more important. Just expressing concern that, more often, folks are going to start showing up at the lab and finding there's no one to host them.

[Antonio Contrisciani]

I feel there should be an additional option Eric "deres the feed before it goes to the web so it's not identifiable" that way we don't have to undo all the work Jeff put in replacing them nor lose the utility of seeing activity.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/f495cb9e-d03c-4eb8-93ea-24ab42e05419n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jot Powers]

Sorry if that came across wrong. 

I was just pointing out that without someone committing to do extra work, the other options weren't really options.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 9:12 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am not trying to put strawmen in my proposal just trying to show what is and isn't the intent.

Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAA8b9rpNw_rVbX2NrV9oJ%3DuXRcFRkr%3DadzzjiKpzkf3MrmmF0A%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvD_eaKz6%2B47rkwqw5%2Bb6Ube4ZN4nJZVFr_vuygRFRLN9w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nate Caine]

Option D:  Revert the change.

                   "Restore the Front Door camera to the previous one before the upgrade."

Same setup we've had for a dozen years:  Annoyance to some; benefit for others. 

[Chris McLaughlin]

HYH Results: 6 For  7 Against.

[Gabriel Finke]

With that being said, for the concern's about safety and miss use of the live stream from the public cameras. I do not see why we couldn't do some processing before we pushed the stream out to the public to make people fell more comfortable. I think that path would be the most beneficial.

On Fri, Jan 10, 2025, 11:07 AM Chris McLaughlin <badtuf...@gmail.com> wrote:

HYH Results: 6 For  7 Against.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/c217717c-eb17-4bbf-8299-09f3b993fa06n%40googlegroups.com.

[Luis Montes]

It seemed like most people were ok with making significant changes to the camera system, it was just removing them completely that lost the vote.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEhD0o-uuJUZ8SMTWwJQg1WBukP6KeBNW-PaymruXABYjA6%2BMQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chris McLaughlin]

Any changes would require another proposal.

[Luis Montes]

yeah probably should, though it's a bit of a grey area isn't it?  There wasn't a proposal to put them up 13 and a half years ago, and they don't technically take up 4 square feet of space :)

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/485e533a-69b4-4ed0-a933-28a0c3e753aen%40googlegroups.com.

[Gabriel Finke]

For sure, I feel like any current modifications to the system should be at the discretion of ops with possibly a public notice.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CA%2B%3DVRdCEBKA85-p1TsdmcbdkMOJYe90H0L%3D%2B2y%2BY6B_V1KpjNw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Bushman]

On 1/10/25 11:31, Gabriel Finke wrote:
> For sure, I feel like any current modifications to the system should be at
> the discretion of ops with possibly a public notice.

As a former board member, I find the wording of this message to be
potentially confusing.

While board members have latitude in executing the intent of HSL, the
intent comes from the membership.

"Discretion" could easily be misconstrued to imply that board members
are permitted to choose what the org does, not just how.

Whether our internal-facing cameras should be streamed, and at what
resolution, is an intent question and is entirely up to the membership
at HYH. How to execute on that can be decided by board members, if they
wish, and if they have the time and resources to do so.

I should also note that being a board member does not imply an
obligation to execute. Everything our board members and their supporting
HSL members do is a gift to the lab, and should be received with the
same gratitude as any other member contribution.

It is also official policy that HSL is a do-ocracy. That is not limited
to, but clearly includes, this: Members who are not on the board doing
things that HYH decides is encouraged.


TL;DR: Being on the board is about wanting to execute (and resume
padding, haha), not about having authority.

[Luis Montes]

new camera AI stuff is live:

https://www.heatsynclabs.org/live/

On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 4:23 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Lab,

The upgraded and higher resolution cameras for the main space in the lab make me very uncomfortable. I'm proposing that we remove them.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

It's just an idea until there's a date and time included.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvCUYUMondn4VXZgW1vGCWjn1ZGDW3VpBm6Z8Bxk1KKw4A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jeff Sittler]

Just my opinion, this is another example of something being done under the "do-ocracy" label instead of following the community's proper proposal process that the community has been so adamant about following.

I am not opposed to the solution, but the way it was handled.  I do not recall seeing any official proposal made for implementing this.  The only thing I recall seeing are discussions as a potential solution and would be investigated.

[Gibson Han]

Love the solution to this problem!

[Darrell Wertz]

So now the cameras have been removed without a community vote? 

[Darrell Wertz]

For my purpose they are there for security reasons. People not staying at a running laser, poor housekeeping like people leaving messes or people breaking or stealing stuff... We are a public space and are at risk of people doing things that would end HSL. Maybe the cameras shouldn't be public but they should be monitored by a few responsible individuals.  

On Thu, Jul 3, 2025 at 8:20 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Darrell,

You should really go read this proposal thread as there is more context there. 

https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/KxNT_XpLJQI

In summary the cameras were added without any proposal and it was stated by Will Bradley who installed the cameras that a modification to that wouldn't require a proposal.  There's more said over there but that's some of it.

The cameras are not removed they are just a functioning differently than before.

Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/86d70209-f013-4c8a-9c85-8b52733b477an%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvBoA0F5eoTmUZ%3DCfF4zNTMLBUKamCr%3DcGfOgN-HC8O8Wg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Darrell Wertz]

The webcams are gone on the website...

On Sat, Jul 5, 2025 at 8:44 PM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

The webcams when they were live were not very useful for telling you if equipment was being used properly because they were not pointed in a way that would show you the equipment in use.

This post should probably be ended and discussion should move elsewhere. This wasn't approved and didn't happen. What did happen was in this post;

https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/KxNT_XpLJQI

Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAM6Z%2Bcd3Uu5b%3D%2B-7OLRGvw_RRC%3Dso9vVsmSkCtiNAfe6%3DNaKMg%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAEk_gvC3P4yf1E%3DiHQWLdXQMOw82LB40NSPMtwag8YoiwCtf%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Darrell Wertz

717-578-9884 Mobile

[Nate Caine]

HeatSync's Lasers are a popular area and get a lot of use.
I check the Laser Webcam before heading down to the lab for the day.
Often this serves as a reminder to touch bases with a particular member I've seen about their project, or to bring some material with me that I'd promised earlier.
Occasionally, there might also be a reminder to "log your work", as the logs have been helpful when tracking down a machine problem.
Sadly, we've also spotted a few members leaving the laser running un-attended as they've wandered around the lab.

[Corey Renner]

The whole camera situation seems to be advancing toward a "Trial by Combat" scenario.  NGL, pretty awesome

c

--

[SM Newstead]

I'm honestly disinclined to come not knowing who is behind the blocks. I made my support of the cameras, as a sexually-harassed female of HeatSync, pretty clear at the HYH where Eric first made his proposal. In fact, I was the tie-breaker vote that retained the cameras then. 

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "HeatSync Labs" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/heatsynclabs/hs1_FTzUQfk/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to heatsynclabs...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAB%2BH8Pyse%3DEMXZn19EfayLqXuKWEy4ugzbokyoPu7avPGfeaSw%40mail.gmail.com.