[Proposal] Remove the Mural in the left window

[Robert Douglass]

For those who are curious, the mural in the window has been covered up for several weeks. The reason is: it was painted by an individual who has since been detained for killing his wife who was also known by some at Heatsync. Covering up falls under Do-ocracy. I understand that removing would be a matter of a vote. I am willing to purchase a gallon of white paint and cover the mural, or someone else can volunteer to bodily remove the wood/frame. This vote would take place 7/27/23

[Jaime Glasser]

Thank you so much Robert! I think it would be good to paint over it and perhaps have another call for art for someone else to design and paint a mural there if the mural structure itself sound.

Happy to help with a call for art and get a group or general consensus to pick a new artist and or design. Perhaps we could fund or get a small grant to pay the artist  and for  paint. 

I will not be back in town until after July 28

Regardless if a replacement is or is not wanted, or if the consensus is to tear it down,  thank you for bringing this up and bringing it to a vote. It is a positive action in response to a devastating loss of a dear friend to Downtown Mesa and bright light for a number of us in horrifying, surreal circumstances .

With great appreciation

Jaime Glasser

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2023, at 8:26 PM, Robert Douglass <rob...@stagenerds.com> wrote:

For those who are curious, the mural in the window has been covered up for several weeks. The reason is: it was painted by an individual who has since been detained for killing his wife who was also known by some at Heatsync. Covering up falls under Do-ocracy. I understand that removing would be a matter of a vote. I am willing to purchase a gallon of white paint and cover the mural, or someone else can volunteer to bodily remove the wood/frame. This vote would take place 7/27/23

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[SM Newstead]

I'm not sure this is eligible for a proposal, at least not yet. It is a condition of the made on main Street grant we got. Perhaps it should be covered until such time as a conviction is made. Here's some info about the mural with relation to the grant: 
https://groups.google.com/g/heatsynclabs/c/4Jk9DOe0iyw/m/TBLwrwpyCgAJ

[Jaime Glasser]

Yes Shauna,

That  makes sense. Not sure who could give permission to get rid of it…. Maybe David Crummey would know.

Take care,

Jaime

Jaime Glasser

PO Box 5060

Mesa, Arizona 85211

480-694-3049

jme...@gmail.com

jaimeglasser.com

On Jul 14, 2023, at 3:04 PM, SM Newstead <smpne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure this is eligible for a proposal, at least not yet. It is a condition of the made on main Street grant we got. Perhaps it should be covered until such time as a conviction is made. Here's some info about the mural with relation to the grant: 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/bde85f95-fbdc-48e4-b2fa-191c65e613f2n%40googlegroups.com.

[Linda Krecker]

I don’t see anything in that link that means we have to leave it up for any period of time. Maybe a call or email to Dave Crumley of rail Mesa might be in order.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/bde85f95-fbdc-48e4-b2fa-191c65e613f2n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Linda S K Brett, Ph.D.

Artist  |  Educator

Designing Art Studio

31 W 9th St  |  Mesa, AZ 85201

602-540-7143

botan...@gmail.com

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/lindabrett

[SM Newstead]

The board is going to contact Made on Main Street grant provider, which I think was One Financial. 

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[sherman...@yahoo.com]

I know someone who reports to the town manager. Let me know if you hit a wall and I'll ask him for some guidance.

Sherman

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CAGmYP1QhZjAndGBr1TNhCySio89SguCVUtb5ArqiFQw5xuASvg%40mail.gmail.com

.

[Robert Douglass]

Do we have any sort of update on whether this can be brought to a vote?

If we had any obligation to keep this up or get someone's permission, by my estimation it would have long since expired since we are coming up on 5 years that the mural has been in place. If nothing else, it would be nice to refresh the look of the window.

[Jasper Nance]

It's a tricky situation, but given the emotional closeness of our group to this terrible tragedy I support whatever brings the most healing to our community .

That said, we should make sure we document the mural in high resolution and preserve it for historical purposes. 

Or maybe we can remove it and auction it off to someone who wants the sort of thing....  But I do know how removable it is.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/276b9bf0-2ecd-47eb-95ad-8d31a823c659n%40googlegroups.com.

[David Crummey]

Hi all,

Amy worked really hard to make that mural happen with David. I know he was the artist that put the paint to the plywood, but none of David's work happened without Amy as the spearhead, logistic leader, or brain trust. The girl in the image is representative of Amy's daughter. Amy was a close friend and this whole realm is really hard for me and I'm not going to go further into that conversation on what should happen to it. Whatever the lab decides is good for me. David's trial won't happen until early next year at the earliest and I think that's going to be the earliest we get anything more than a police report about what happened. There's not a corner downtown I walk down that doesn't remind me of the work we did with Amy in some way -- with or without David involved. It's hard for me to want to see all of David's stuff removed or destroyed especially since I know how much Amy is tied to all of it, even just in my mind and memory. It's all a tragedy and I won't tell others how to grieve. If it goes, it goes.

As for the Made on Main Street grant particulars, the mural is 100% the property of HeatSync Labs and it is appropriate to do with it as the membership sees fit. Art is always temporary, but if it goes, maybe the component parts can be repurposed for another project and not go to the landfill. Amy was the queen of repurposing and upcycling (nay, hacking!) and whatever happens to the mural it would be great if it didn't just go to produce methane in the dump. 

[David Crummey]

I just saw something on contacting the funder -- the actual funder was RAIL CDC who received the grant through Main Street America -- while One Financial did make the grant to Main Street America, the grant was issued to RAIL CDC for the benefit of HeatSync Labs. One Financial wouldn't have any responsibility or jurisdiction over the project and it would not be appropriate to contact them.

[SM Newstead]

Well put, David. Do you have a copy of the grant? I cannot find it. I am not sure we can do what we want with it. I thought it was a grant condition? 

The trial is not until February, so that is correct as well. He has pled not guilty, for those interested. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/b4ebe0f7-e108-47fc-9d5f-c1153533b73fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Jaime Glasser]

Thank you David. I had not thought of David’s work as inspired by all the good Amy was and did. In that way it honors her and everything that she was a part of. Personally that perspective is very helpful and more healing for me than what I have been holding. I know how hard it must be to even consider this so thank you for your guidance and wise perspective. 

In general I do not believe there would be any ongoing responsibilities to the grantor. I fully support whatever the community of HSL decides collectively. Thank you all.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 20, 2023, at 9:27 AM, SM Newstead <smpne...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[SM Newstead]

We absolutely cannot say with any certainty that there is no requirement. Over my half decade on the board, I've applied for over a dozen grants. More than half of those had very specific requirements with respect to minorities in STEM, often lasting for many years. We can make no conclusion without a copy of the grant. Given the subject matter of the mural (a young female of color in STEM bringing enlightenment), it very well may be such a requirement. 

As just a regular person at HeatSync, I think the subject of the mural is beautiful and the mentally-ill or sinful behavior of its artist should not negate its message. I was on the committee who selected this artist, and I have to say, even given this tragedy of some of our favorite downtown Mesa people, I would not go back in time to choose a different artist. I believe in its message just as much as I did then. Most notably, why should the actions of a (somewhat) white male force the erasure of young women of color in STEM? A proposal brought forth by another white male (love ya, Robert!) 

A great man is not necessarily a good one, but the art is well done and within our mission. We do not make political statements, nor are we an extension of the judicial system; we bring STEM tools and skills to the community, especially those who are underserved, like the girl in the mural. I will further point out that every reliable academic resource says avoiding reminders of your grief is a very unhealthy way of dealing with it. 

Instead of white dudes getting to decide this, why don't we ask their children what they think? How do we know what she would want and isn't it a bit presumptuous to decide for her? I would hate for her to have her voice taken twice, since we really don't know.... but if it's her child like David C said, I can't imagine a mother would want her beautiful child painted over with white paint. 

Finally, he pled not guilty and the witness at the scene said he was possibly hearing voices. I know it won't negate the tragedy, but what if mental disease or defect is present? It does change intent. We really don't know the situation, only that it's horrific and tragic. We help homeless people, even though we get burned so often, and they've often stolen, if one comes and wants to solder, we always help them. It's who we are. 

As always, I support the actions of HeatSync, so long as we are not in violation of grant terms. If it is decided to be removed (after checking documentation) then I support Jasper's idea of removing it whole.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/24EE00A8-51F6-4337-ACCD-1BDD08F3551E%40gmail.com.

[Robert Douglass]

Getting the opinion of someone who is not a member is completely valid as a data point for determining the ultimate outcome as decided by members. Making a proposal to allow another party to make the choice is also valid, but not what this particular  proposal puts forth. Double checking the terms of the grant would be good for this or any future suggestion of what to do, however it has been covered for over a month with not so much as a peep from outside influences. 

 

I'm really at a loss though for what else to do here. In attempting to make a good faith proposal as respectfully as I could- it has been suggested that it may be inappropriate for me to have a vote on this due to my race and/or gender... let alone be the one to do any actual painting or removing. I have always endeavored to support minorities, oppressed groups, femme presenting individuals, and youth in STEM. As any action taken (were this to pass), can be misconstrued as some form of erasure regarding any or all of these groups: I am no longer comfortable being involved in any way. If no person chooses to take up this proposal, it shall be considered  withdrawn on Wednesday 2/26. I suspect that was the purpose for invoking my race and gender, but I don't see any other recourse. I wish nothing but wisdom for all relevant parties.

[Robert Bell]

Unraster it into little same-sized squares

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[Rick Blake]

I've been following this discussion carefully. And I see all viewpoints are of value.

For me, if we keep the mural displayed, I think an added plaque or sign could be installed, explaining our reasoning. I think that reasoning could be, in simple terms, that the artwork was inspired b y the artist's family, friends and experience, it was intended to honor all that, and we can respect and admire that even as we recognize the tragedy of this artist's life. 

I'm not sure I have an opinion on asking for the artist's childrens' opinion on this. 

Lastly, I am disappointed that a racial comment has been made. If triage color of my skin disqualifies me from being a useful participant in this decision, please let me know, and I will consider your recommendation with care and humility, as best I can.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/CACo9re8wjFqSmca92oWKEfLkk6ozVAVjnEn7E%3D2tJS4y3_UZ9Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[dlwe...@gmail.com]

As part of this proposal, there is a need bring closure to this discussion. We will always have differing opinions about such matters.

Firstly, this proposal is about "The Removal of the Mural from the Window."

Somehow it has turned into discussion about the complete destruction of the mural and the discussion goes downhill from there.

I am offering to take over the proposal if no one else does. The vote will be if the mural stays in the window or not. Keeping It would purpose the mural as a tribute to those that inspired it and lost their life or removing it means it's tastefully covered or placed in storage future disposition. Time is a better judge of such things. Leaving the mural covered with random stuff is not an option. 

The proposal response is to be a keep or remove. Destroying it is NOT on the table. Nothing more nothing less.  

---

DarrellW

[dlwe...@gmail.com]

Please show up at HYH on July 27 @7PM to vote on this proposal.

We also have a vote on Sarah's (Jewelry Champion) card access!

Not showing up also sends a message. We only get a quorum (8 members) about 25% of the time. :( 

[Rafael]

This is only for board members right?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/3d21bdb2-9639-4666-8baf-673dfb2c333dn%40googlegroups.com.

[dlwe...@gmail.com]

HYH is for all members in good standing. Board members have no special rights here.. 

[dlwe...@gmail.com]

HYH Wiki
https://wiki.heatsynclabs.org/wiki/Hack_Your_Hackerspace

[sherman mohler]

I vote remove it and hold onto it for future consideration. I wonder if we can put something in it's place that will (even it it's not nearly so big) that let's the family know we are about them, especially any children.

Future consideration might even be selling it and giving the money to the child (there is a creepiness factor here I don't like in terms of who would buy this thing, but maybe the money would mean more to the child). We might even, since it's being held onto for now, find some way of taking the aspects that the child might want to have as a memory and make something...

-=S

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/164fd2d4-d553-4e42-99f3-1479a68adb4an%40googlegroups.com

.

[SM Newstead]

Lots of good input from everyone here. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I hope people make whatever choice makes everyone involved happiest.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/776000254.2010717.1689978405420%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Cprossu]

Just saw this today with other distressing news.

I think the fate of the mural ought to involve or be directed by the kid depicted and/or their surviving family/guardians. Us destroying it seems the wrong thing to so unless guided to do so by them, so does selling it. Lives, memories, and many other intangible things hold in the balance, and is not something that should be taken lightly. It should be protected and not displayed while facts are uncovered, but every attempt should be made to get a hold of the mother's side family if there's any way to contact them and give the total control to them.

[Darrell Wertz]

Regretfully, I will not be able to make it to HYH this week due to medical reasons. Reading through the HYH wiki, I believe that this proposal can be voted upon without the sponsor/proposer present. So feel free to vote on it however you please.

Thanks,

DarrellW

[David Crummey]

Hi all, just chiming in. I wrote the grant on behalf of RAIL CDC, who was the grant recipient - Heatsync was not a party to the agreement, just the beneficiary. I also wrote the grant close out report on behalf of RAIL CDC. The mural is 100% property of HSL. No need to dig further. 

[SM Newstead]

Thanks for clearing up that part, David C. Appreciate you

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/b6059e9c-ba92-4b16-9c35-7ea09a256f9dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Nate Caine]

[I have a standing meeting at my HOA that prevents me from attending the second HYH each month.  So I will miss this meeting.]

Initially, I was on the fence about the mural; I don't know any of the people involved.
But just like a roadside memorial for a traffic accident, every time I see this in our window, I can't help but think about this horrific murder.
The lab is cluttered with projects and displays, many of which have been up for too long, and have run their course.
Regarding the mural, I'd say it's time to move on.
It appears that the panels can be easily taken down and put in storage.
After some time has passed, HeatSync could approach the surviving family members about their wishes, if any, on how to dispose of this.

[Eric Ose]

This proposal passed and the mural had been moved upstairs for now. I'll post the HYH notes later tonight.

Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador
It's just an idea unless there is a date and time included.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/heatsynclabs/8e2da967-5987-426e-806b-c8cc20d66db1n%40googlegroups.com.