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Subject: [guzzi-singles] Digest for guzzi-...@googlegroups.com - 8 Messages in 1 Topic

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    Don West <donwe...@yahoo.co.uk> Jun 15 08:41PM +0100  

    Mike
     
    Is this any good for you?
     
    Kolben kompl. Airone Sport  Partno. 15060400 ,  Weight 0.36 kg 59.50 Euros plus postage
     
    http://www.sd-tec.de/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/153319?osCsid=bd1c50e0c83357f85a9496b16faf2d92
     
    Don
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    ________________________________
    From: "Guzz...@aol.com" <Guzz...@aol.com>
    To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
    Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 17:24
    Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] J&E Pistons

     
    Ok,,,,,,,I have to ax,,,,,,,why are these little pistons so expensive??? I
    can buy a complete set of NOS pistons for a three cylinder Brit bike
    for half that price.
     
    Tim
     
     
     
    In a message dated 6/15/2012 10:42:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
    kimb...@comcast.net writes:
    On 6/15/2012 7:50 AM, Mike Peavey wrote:
    >> The Airone engine I'm putting
    back together could benefit from a new piston..   the guy doing the
    head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with the stipulation it be a
    modern 3 ring design and of equal weight.   They came back with a
    cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265  each, which he thought
    high and told them so.
     
    >Prices from JE don't seem to have changed
    much.  Gone down a bit if you
    >consider the value of the dollar these
    days.  In 2002 when I was
    >rebuilding my Dondolino, I went to JE for
    new pistons.  I went with the
    >4-quantity route.  These were 2 x
    88.00 mm and 2 x 88.x mm.  So I got
    >two different sizes with modern
    alloys, modern rings and pins.  The
    >weight was virtually the same as
    the previous piston that was in the
    >bike.  As I remember, the price
    was right at $800 including shipping.
     
    >JerryK
     
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    John Mead <john...@prodigy.net> Jun 15 02:23PM -0700  

    What size is this piston?  Standard or oversize?  I have a 52 Sport that needs a rebore and new piston, etc.
     
    John Mead
     
    --- On Fri, 6/15/12, Don West <donwe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
     
    From: Don West <donwe...@yahoo.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] J&E Pistons
    To: "guzzi-...@googlegroups.com" <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
    Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 3:41 PM
     
    Mike
    Is this any good for you?
    Kolben kompl. Airone Sport  Partno. 15060400 ,  Weight 0.36 kg 59.50 Euros plus postage
    http://www.sd-tec.de/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/153319?osCsid=bd1c50e0c83357f85a9496b16faf2d92
    Don
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    From: "Guzz...@aol.com" <Guzz...@aol.com>
    To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
    Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 17:24
    Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] J&E Pistons

     
     


     
    Ok,,,,,,,I have to ax,,,,,,,why are these little pistons so expensive??? I
    can buy a complete set of NOS pistons for a three cylinder Brit bike
    for half that price.
     
    Tim
     
     
     
     
    In a message dated 6/15/2012 10:42:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
    kimb...@comcast.net writes:
    On
    6/15/2012 7:50 AM, Mike Peavey wrote:
    > The Airone engine I'm putting
    back together could benefit from a new piston..   the guy doing the
    head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with the stipulation it be a
    modern 3 ring design and of equal weight.   They came back with a
    cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265  each, which he thought
    high and told them so.
     
    Prices from JE don't seem to have changed
    much.  Gone down a bit if you
    consider the value of the dollar these
    days.  In 2002 when I was
    rebuilding my Dondolino, I went to JE for
    new pistons.  I went with the
    4-quantity route.  These were 2 x
    88.00 mm and 2 x 88.x mm.  So I got
    two different sizes with modern
    alloys, modern rings and pins.  The
    weight was virtually the same as
    the previous piston that was in the
    bike.  As I remember, the price
    was right at $800 including shipping.
     
    JerryK
     
    --
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    http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.
     
     
     
     
    --
     
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
     
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    --
     
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    Don West <donwe...@yahoo.co.uk> Jun 16 12:10AM +0100  

    John
     
    I found it on the Stein Dinse website, best thing would be to contact them direct to see what they can offer
     
    Don
     
     
     
    ________________________________
    From: John Mead <john...@prodigy.net>
    To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
    Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 22:23
    Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] J&E Pistons

     
    What size is this piston?  Standard or oversize?  I have a 52 Sport that needs a rebore and new piston, etc.
     
    John Mead
     
    >Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 17:24
    >Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] J&E Pistons
     
    >Ok,,,,,,,I have to ax,,,,,,,why are these little pistons so expensive??? I
    can buy a complete set of NOS pistons for a three cylinder Brit bike
    for half that price.
    > 
    > 
    >In a message dated 6/15/2012 10:42:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
    kimb...@comcast.net writes:
    >On 6/15/2012 7:50 AM, Mike Peavey wrote:
    >>> The Airone engine I'm putting
    back together could benefit from a new piston..   the guy doing the
    head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with the stipulation it be a
    modern 3 ring design and of equal weight.   They came back with a
    cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265  each, which he thought
    high and told them so.
     
    >>Prices from JE don't seem to have changed
    much.  Gone down a bit if you
    >>consider the value of the dollar these
    days.  In 2002 when I was
    >>rebuilding my Dondolino, I went to JE for
    new pistons.  I went with the
    >>4-quantity route.  These were 2 x
    88.00 mm and 2 x 88.x mm.  So I got
    >>two different sizes with modern
    alloys, modern rings and pins.  The
    >>weight was virtually the same as
    the previous piston that was in the
    >>bike.  As I remember, the price
    was right at $800 including shipping.
     
    >>JerryK
     
    >>--
    >>You received
    this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles"
    group.
    >>To post to this group, send email to
    guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
    >>To unsubscribe from this group, send email
    to guzzi-single...@googlegroups.com.
    >>For more options, visit this
    group at
    http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.
     
    --
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    >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-single...@googlegroups.com.
    >For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.
     
    --
     
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    Guzz...@aol.com Jun 15 08:50PM -0400  

    Michael........ I have this new piston & ring set. It is a 4 ringer.
    Marked # 71 on the top and came from Italy according to the label. It came with
    my Airone project. I don't know if I need it right now or not but I don't
    care. If you can use it now for $150.00 as pictured it's yours. But I won't
    sell it to anyone who isn't going to use it immediately. No hoarding
    parts.........

    Tim


    In a message dated 6/15/2012 9:50:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
    mpe...@comcast.net writes:
     
    The Airone engine I'm putting back together could benefit from a new
    piston.. the guy doing the head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with
    the stipulation it be a modern 3 ring design and of equal weight. They
    came back with a cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265 each, which
    he thought high and told them so.. but, much of that cost involved setup
    etc. and as i told him, the last Lodola piston i bought from the King of
    Pistons was €120 about a year ago, which in the Euro of those days was
    $187.50, plus shipping "quickly" as the King says, plus old technology rings.
     
    See the email traffic below between Jon and J&E, who he deals with all the
    time. Since i now have 3, I might just do this one and put one in stock,
    but as you can see, all of their prices are based on a run of 4 units,
    which would bring the price per down... anyone else want/need?
     
    Thoughts?
     
    Mike Peavey
     
     
     
    Hello Sebastian:
     
     
    Are you folks interested in making me a replacement piston for a Moto
    Guzzi 250 Airone that was produced from the mid 40's to 1956?
     
    Some basic stuff you will need to know in order to evaluate if you have a
    forging to work off. A few picks to get a feel for the OE piston. I can
    send additional pics if you desire. I would desire a piston with the most
    conformability and robustness rather than a piston for maximum performance.
    There is not a heck of a lot of oil thrown around (inside anyway) on these
    early engines,
     
     
     
    1) OE piston is similar to most 2 stroke pistons in general
    appearance and geometry. This is a 4 stroke engine
     
    2) Elimination of the lower oil ring ok with me
     
    3) Bore, newly finished bore will be only slightly oversize most
    likely less than 70.5mm.
     
    4) Compression height to beauty ring = 1.360, aprox.
     
    5) Total height of OE piston = 2.800
     
    6) Pin = 16 mm, The OE pin is fine for re-use if you have nothing
    suitable.
     
    7) Ok, now for the tuffy, I would like the total weight of the
    piston pin and rings very similar to OE. It is a single cylinder and I do not
    want to through off the balance much. Total weight with pin, piston,
    clips and rings is 298 grams. If you will be using the OE pin over, the pin is
    51 grams. This engine only makes 13 HP at 6000 RPM.
     
     
    And I got:
     
     
    Jon,
     
    That is why I wanted a better picture of the top of the piston, more than
    likely we would need a sample piston or a drawing based on what you have.
    The sample piston will incurr a $75.00 piston layout charge which is money
    well spent as this will ensure proper fitment.
    We can fully replicate the shape but there is additional costs related to
    this, layout fee $75.00 , programming fee $110. These are one time non
    recurring fees and then we need to manufacture it with an ultradome which is
    an additional $25.50 per piston.
     
    All of our tooling is 4 pieces so the $50 fee is there to recover the time
    the tool is cutting air. I think it is a reasonable fee in my opinion.
     
    Sample piston would be the best as we would have hard surfaces to measure.
     
     
    Sebastian
     
    OK, from what I see is the following:
     
    It looks like to me we got to by 2 pc.
     
    $100.00 each piston X 2 = $200.00
    engineering charge = $75.00
    Low volume surcharge, 2 pc.= $100.00
    programing fee= $110.00
    shipping and insurance from JE= $30.00
    ship sample to JE= $15.00
     
    Looks like $530.00 for 2 pc.
     
     
    Seems a bit out of line to me for what I usualy have done but I generaly
    by in quantities of 4 to 8 or more.
     
    Jon
     
    --
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    Mike Peavey <mpe...@comcast.net> Jun 16 10:56AM -0400  

    Tim,
    A generous offer and thanks. Let me check with Jon on Monday and get his thoughts,. I guess the bigger question is if the #71 equals 71mm, and right now we're dealing with 70.5mm bore, meaning 71mm, or .019" bigger, if indeed that's what the #71 means, would be a pretty big jump. Anyone have an idea?
    Thanks,
    Mike

     

    Guzz...@aol.com Jun 16 11:38AM -0400  

    Mike.........I included a measurement in the picture. Something like 70.54
    mm ?? The Euro picture that was posted earlier had a number on the top as
    well like a # 72. I'm guessing that's the size? Maybe someone else is more
    familiar with the sizing numbers.

    Tim


    In a message dated 6/16/2012 9:57:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
    mpe...@comcast.net writes:
     
    Tim,
    A generous offer and thanks. Let me check with Jon on Monday and get
    his thoughts,. I guess the bigger question is if the #71 equals 71mm, and
    right now we're dealing with 70.5mm bore, meaning 71mm, or .019" bigger, if
    indeed that's what the #71 means, would be a pretty big jump. Anyone have an
    idea?
    Thanks,
    Mike
     
    On Jun 15, 2012, at 8:50 PM, _Guz...@aol.com_ (mailto:Guzz...@aol.com)
    wrote:
     
     
     
    Michael........ I have this new piston & ring set. It is a 4 ringer.
    Marked # 71 on the top and came from Italy according to the label. It came with
    my Airone project. I don't know if I need it right now or not but I don't
    care. If you can use it now for $150.00 as pictured it's yours. But I won't
    sell it to anyone who isn't going to use it immediately. No hoarding
    parts.........

    Tim


    In a message dated 6/15/2012 9:50:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
    _mpe...@comcast.net_ (mailto:mpe...@comcast.net) writes:
     
    The Airone engine I'm putting back together could benefit from a new
    piston.. the guy doing the head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with
    the stipulation it be a modern 3 ring design and of equal weight. They
    came back with a cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265 each, which
    he thought high and told them so.. but, much of that cost involved setup
    etc. and as i told him, the last Lodola piston i bought from the King of
    Pistons was €120 about a year ago, which in the Euro of those days was
    $187.50, plus shipping "quickly" as the King says, plus old technology rings.
     
    See the email traffic below between Jon and J&E, who he deals with all the
    time. Since i now have 3, I might just do this one and put one in stock,
    but as you can see, all of their prices are based on a run of 4 units,
    which would bring the price per down... anyone else want/need?
     
    Thoughts?
     
    Mike Peavey
     
     
     
    Hello Sebastian:
     
     
    Are you folks interested in making me a replacement piston for a Moto
    Guzzi 250 Airone that was produced from the mid 40's to 1956?
     
    Some basic stuff you will need to know in order to evaluate if you have a
    forging to work off. A few picks to get a feel for the OE piston. I can
    send additional pics if you desire. I would desire a piston with the most
    conformability and robustness rather than a piston for maximum performance.
    There is not a heck of a lot of oil thrown around (inside anyway) on these
    early engines,
     
     
     
    1) OE piston is similar to most 2 stroke pistons in general
    appearance and geometry. This is a 4 stroke engine
     
    2) Elimination of the lower oil ring ok with me
     
    3) Bore, newly finished bore will be only slightly oversize most
    likely less than 70.5mm.
     
    4) Compression height to beauty ring = 1.360, aprox.
     
    5) Total height of OE piston = 2.800
     
    6) Pin = 16 mm, The OE pin is fine for re-use if you have nothing
    suitable.
     
    7) Ok, now for the tuffy, I would like the total weight of the
    piston pin and rings very similar to OE. It is a single cylinder and I do not
    want to through off the balance much. Total weight with pin, piston,
    clips and rings is 298 grams. If you will be using the OE pin over, the pin
    is 51 grams. This engine only makes 13 HP at 6000 RPM.
     
     
    And I got:
     
     
    Jon,
     
    That is why I wanted a better picture of the top of the piston, more than
    likely we would need a sample piston or a drawing based on what you have.
    The sample piston will incurr a $75.00 piston layout charge which is money
    well spent as this will ensure proper fitment.
    We can fully replicate the shape but there is additional costs related to
    this, layout fee $75.00 , programming fee $110. These are one time non
    recurring fees and then we need to manufacture it with an ultradome which is
    an additional $25.50 per piston.
     
    All of our tooling is 4 pieces so the $50 fee is there to recover the time
    the tool is cutting air. I think it is a reasonable fee in my opinion.
     
    Sample piston would be the best as we would have hard surfaces to measure.
     
     
    Sebastian
     
    OK, from what I see is the following:
     
    It looks like to me we got to by 2 pc.
     
    $100.00 each piston X 2 = $200.00
    engineering charge = $75.00
    Low volume surcharge, 2 pc.= $100.00
    programing fee= $110.00
    shipping and insurance from JE= $30.00
    ship sample to JE= $15.00
     
    Looks like $530.00 for 2 pc.
     
     
    Seems a bit out of line to me for what I usualy have done but I generaly
    by in quantities of 4 to 8 or more.
     
    Jon
     
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    <AirPiston.jpg>
     
     
     
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    Mike Peavey <mpe...@comcast.net> Jun 16 01:14PM -0400  

    Tim, Sorry I hadn't scrolled all the way to the bottom to see the photo, got it now…
    Mike

     

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