J&E Pistons

[Mike Peavey]

The Airone engine I'm putting back together could benefit from a new piston.. the guy doing the head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with the stipulation it be a modern 3 ring design and of equal weight. They came back with a cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265 each, which he thought high and told them so.. but, much of that cost involved setup etc. and as i told him, the last Lodola piston i bought from the King of Pistons was €120 about a year ago, which in the Euro of those days was $187.50, plus shipping "quickly" as the King says, plus old technology rings.

See the email traffic below between Jon and J&E, who he deals with all the time. Since i now have 3, I might just do this one and put one in stock, but as you can see, all of their prices are based on a run of 4 units, which would bring the price per down... anyone else want/need?

Thoughts?

Mike Peavey



Hello Sebastian:


Are you folks interested in making me a replacement piston for a Moto Guzzi 250 Airone that was produced from the mid 40's to 1956?

Some basic stuff you will need to know in order to evaluate if you have a forging to work off. A few picks to get a feel for the OE piston. I can send additional pics if you desire. I would desire a piston with the most conformability and robustness rather than a piston for maximum performance. There is not a heck of a lot of oil thrown around (inside anyway) on these early engines,



1) OE piston is similar to most 2 stroke pistons in general appearance and geometry. This is a 4 stroke engine

2) Elimination of the lower oil ring ok with me

3) Bore, newly finished bore will be only slightly oversize most likely less than 70.5mm.

4) Compression height to beauty ring = 1.360, aprox.

5) Total height of OE piston = 2.800

6) Pin = 16 mm, The OE pin is fine for re-use if you have nothing suitable.

7) Ok, now for the tuffy, I would like the total weight of the piston pin and rings very similar to OE. It is a single cylinder and I do not want to through off the balance much. Total weight with pin, piston, clips and rings is 298 grams. If you will be using the OE pin over, the pin is 51 grams. This engine only makes 13 HP at 6000 RPM.


And I got:


Jon,

That is why I wanted a better picture of the top of the piston, more than likely we would need a sample piston or a drawing based on what you have. The sample piston will incurr a $75.00 piston layout charge which is money well spent as this will ensure proper fitment.
We can fully replicate the shape but there is additional costs related to this, layout fee $75.00 , programming fee $110. These are one time non recurring fees and then we need to manufacture it with an ultradome which is an additional $25.50 per piston.

All of our tooling is 4 pieces so the $50 fee is there to recover the time the tool is cutting air. I think it is a reasonable fee in my opinion.

Sample piston would be the best as we would have hard surfaces to measure.


Sebastian

OK, from what I see is the following:

It looks like to me we got to by 2 pc.

$100.00 each piston X 2 = $200.00
engineering charge = $75.00
Low volume surcharge, 2 pc.= $100.00
programing fee= $110.00
shipping and insurance from JE= $30.00
ship sample to JE= $15.00

Looks like $530.00 for 2 pc.


Seems a bit out of line to me for what I usualy have done but I generaly by in quantities of 4 to 8 or more.

Jon

[Bill Burke]

My Airone has a fresh King of Piston piston in it, but if the bottom end
clatter turns out to be more than a broken pinion gear spring, it might be
coming apart again. Can we add a point or two of compression with these
J&Es?

[Bill Burke]

Or, Is that knocking an opportunity?

[Mike Peavey]

I'll ax

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
> To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-single...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.
>

[Jerome Kimberlin]

On 6/15/2012 7:50 AM, Mike Peavey wrote:
> The Airone engine I'm putting back together could benefit from a new piston.. the guy doing the head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with the stipulation it be a modern 3 ring design and of equal weight. They came back with a cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265 each, which he thought high and told them so.

Prices from JE don't seem to have changed much. Gone down a bit if you
consider the value of the dollar these days. In 2002 when I was
rebuilding my Dondolino, I went to JE for new pistons. I went with the
4-quantity route. These were 2 x 88.00 mm and 2 x 88.x mm. So I got
two different sizes with modern alloys, modern rings and pins. The
weight was virtually the same as the previous piston that was in the
bike. As I remember, the price was right at $800 including shipping.

JerryK

[Guzz...@aol.com]

Ok,,,,,,,I have to ax,,,,,,,why are these little pistons so expensive??? I can buy a complete set of NOS pistons for a three cylinder Brit bike for half that price.

 

Tim

 

 

 

[Don West]

Mike

Is this any good for you?

Kolben kompl. Airone Sport  Partno. 15060400 ,  Weight 0.36 kg 59.50 Euros plus postage

http://www.sd-tec.de/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/153319?osCsid=bd1c50e0c83357f85a9496b16faf2d92

Don

---

From: "Guzz...@aol.com" <Guzz...@aol.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 17:24
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] J&E Pistons

[John Mead]

What size is this piston?  Standard or oversize?  I have a 52 Sport that needs a rebore and new piston, etc. John Mead --- On Fri, 6/15/12, Don West <donwe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[Don West]

John

I found it on the Stein Dinse website, best thing would be to contact them direct to see what they can offer

Don

---

From: John Mead <john...@prodigy.net>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 22:23

[Guzz...@aol.com]

Michael........ I have this new piston & ring set. It is a 4 ringer. Marked  # 71 on the top and came from Italy according to the label. It came with my Airone project. I don't know if I need it right now or not but I don't care. If you can use it now for $150.00 as pictured it's yours. But I won't sell it to anyone who isn't going to use it immediately. No hoarding parts.........

 

Tim

 

In a message dated 6/15/2012 9:50:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mpe...@comcast.net writes:

The Airone engine I'm putting back together could benefit from a new piston..   the guy doing the head sent the existing piston spec's to J&E, with the stipulation it be a modern 3 ring design and of equal weight.   They came back with a cost to do two 70.5mm pieces of $530, or $265  each, which he thought high and told them so.. but, much of that cost involved setup etc.   and as i told him, the last Lodola piston i bought from the King of Pistons was €120 about a year ago, which in the Euro of those days was $187.50, plus shipping "quickly" as the King says, plus old technology rings.

[John Mead]

Thank you, I will.

[Mike Peavey]

Tim, 

A generous offer and thanks.    Let me check with Jon on Monday and get his thoughts,.  I guess the bigger question is if the #71 equals 71mm, and right now we're dealing with 70.5mm bore, meaning 71mm, or .019" bigger, if indeed that's what the #71 means, would be a pretty big jump.  Anyone have an idea?  

Thanks, 

Mike 

<AirPiston.jpg>

[Guzz...@aol.com]

Mike.........I included a measurement in the picture. Something like 70.54 mm ?? The Euro picture that was posted earlier had a number on the top as well like a # 72. I'm guessing that's the size? Maybe someone else is more familiar with the sizing numbers.

 

   Tim

[Mike Peavey]

Tim, Sorry I hadn't scrolled all the way to the bottom to see the photo, got it now… 

Mike 

On Jun 15, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Guzz...@aol.com wrote:

<AirPiston.jpg>

[Jerome Kimberlin]

On 6/16/2012 8:38 AM, Guzz...@aol.com wrote:

Mike.........I included a measurement in the picture. Something like 70.54 mm ??�The Euro picture that was posted earlier�had a number on the top as well like a # 72. I'm guessing that's the size? Maybe someone else is more familiar with the sizing numbers.

The number on the top of the piston is the diameter you are supposed to bore the cylinder to fit the piston.� In practice, it works pretty good for choosing pistons, but the pistons are frequently off size a little.� So you ultimately need to measure the piston skirt across the pin, add on the clearance from the owner's manual, then try to hit that when you bore the cylinder.

JerryK

[Don West]

Hi

Just had a browse around ebay in Italy and a nice selection of Airne parts for only 180 Euros if anyone interested, it includes a barrel and piston

"Faro complete ready to fit in perfect condition x time guzzi motorcycles / gilera and others, plus other parts moto guzzi x Falcon / Heron, dynamo magnet,
ss29a carburetor, head overhauled,, cylinder piston and piston, spare parts kit x fork seals, and more."

http://annunci.ebay.it/annunci/faro-moto-epoca/23019454

Don

---

From: John Mead <john...@prodigy.net>

To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 22:23

[Mike Peavey]

Hi Don, 

I forwarded this along to a friend of mine in Italy.  He says, as is often the case, it's not an auction, but an advertisement and he has emailed the guy to see what's what and will let me/us know.

Mike