TIG welder?

[Thursday]

Hello list!  I did a search and seems the last time this topic came up was 2013.  Here is why I want to bring it up again: 

Years ago I got what I thought was a great deal on a used Lincoln Invertec V-205 T setup, torches helmets and all.

This year I have a project to build a steel fence to close off the front of our house lot ... .065" (16 GA/1.65 mm) mild steel tubing.  I figured it would give me an opportunity to learn TIG without burning up a lot of expensive bicycle tubes.  So I bought the Argon tank and then found the auto0drakening helmets did not work ... fortunately by looking at the sun.  Bought a new helmet tried a simple weld ... couldn't get much spark.  I took the machine in to the Lincoln dealer and their techie said the one of the control boards was messed up, but I could still DC w3eld with it. 

Well I could weld, sometimes.  I did enough to get where I could lay down a decent weld and I like what I am seeing.  But the welder!  It will weld along sometimes ... then it will just give a burst of maximum hellfire and burn through, or it will quit, then come back with a wimpy little spark.  Needless to say, Lincoln doesn't sell replacement parts for this 15 YO, top-of-the-line machine.

So it looks like there are a lot of inverter-type TIG welders on the market under $1K.   I like the pulsing feature on the Lincoln (when it was working) and I have 220 V in the shop.  AC and DC welding is a plus.  

Here's the question:  any recommendations on TIC machines, either for or against?  Are any of the sub-$1K welders any good?  What has been the group experience?

TIA your responses!

jn

"Thursday"

[False A]

There's a thread about cheap TIG welders. : https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f55/cheap-tig-welding-machines-tungsten-inert-cheap-inexpensive-welder-56955.html

After that thread came up, I looked into things a bit more (Because.... free time, ya know). 

$700-$1300 I'd be looking at AHP. 

$1300-$2k I'd look at Everlast. 

Above 2k I'd probably head straight to Miller.

If I wanted a multi-process machine (TIG/Stick/MIG) I'd buy a Esab Rebel. 

For the cheaper machines, the first thing I'd upgrade (After buying a decent torch) is the foot pedal. 

[Mark Stonich]

Primeweld Tig225x

Dozens of Youtube videos praising it. This one from an expert who really tested it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YkWY3nVAlY&t=27s

Comes with a great torch and pedal. Early reviews didn't like the pedal and power cord, so they improved them.

Larger and at 40.5 pounds, heavier than the competition, IMHO a good thing.

3 year warrantee and they pay shipping both ways.

Knobs and switched for everything, no going through menus.

I've never seen anything so well packed.

Much good online feedback for Tech Support.

On their website they say bike builders is one of the groups it was designed for.

Tech support patiently my questions (In clear American English.) Once I accidentally butt dialed them, but hung up after one ring. 5 minutes later they called my to see if there was a problem.

Everyone from Home Depot to Walmart will sell you one. But buy directly from PrimeWeld. You get $25 off & fast, free shipping. Plus they haven't sold enough to Minnesota, and hopefully to your state, to have to charge sales tax. My total cost $844. 

After 29 years with heavy, stiff torch hoses, the CK Superflex is like you're holding a magic wand.

Caveat; I haven't had it long and haven't done thin tube joints yet. 

[False A]

Yeah, I agree with the CK suggestion. Another great option are the weldtec options. I just moved from a CK air cooled to a Weldtec water cooled and love it. 

[Jon Norstog]

Well, 5thyanks List!  I checked out the Primeweld 225x and it is getting good reviews ... when I went to buy it it had a box for a discount code.  I emailed the company to ask if there were any discount codes. like for a new customer or (joking) a veteraN.  "Gene" got back to me and asket if I was a vet, I replied US Coast Guard 1966-70 and he gave me a code for 10% off!  So I guess the deed is done.

My marching band is performing at the Oregon State Fair 8/26-9/5 so it will be after Labor Day I start using the new welder.

All these years welding bike frames using the torches, I think I will enjoy not having to do so much clean-up on the welds. Kudos Mark Stonich for suggesting this machine.

jn

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[locky flint]

Hi all, just piggybacking on this discussion to ask a TIG torch question…I really like the look of the CK torches with super flex cable, would a number 9 torch be too small for frame applications? It has the current capacity but just wondering if maybe it’s unnecessary to that small and maybe the 17 is more ideal?

Cheers,

Locky 

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[False A]

The  CK9-12-RSF RG will work well for you.  (If you see a part number with a 25 instead of a 12 that just signifies a longer cable length). For non-pulse I set my amps at around 65 and dial things in with my foot. For pulse I'll set it around 125. Either way, the torch stays cool and, with care, will last years (I'm on year 4 or 5)

The torch can handle more amps but you risk overheating it. For small jobs I've pushed into the 175 amp range but make sure you let the torch cool down. Even so, doing that too many times will burn out the head. 

The CK superflex cable is awesome. Buy some tubular webbing (e.g. for climbing rope) and put that over the cable. It'll protect it without reducing flex or adding too much weight. (I believe Sean @ Vertigo made that suggestion) 

I've cut about 2" off of the handle. This helps me get into smaller areas and allows me to wrap the cable around my hand/forearm in a way that makes things a bit more steady. Handles are cheap, explore that type of customization. 

You should also check out the Weldtec Stubby from Bike Fab Supply. I just bought their water-cooled torch and love it. The semi-flexible handle is great and, if you're like me, you might appreciate the slightly thicker handle. 

I would pair either of these with a CK gas lens and a #8 and a #10 cup. My favorite at the moment is the Furick Jazzy. A pyrex cup is helpful when you're starting out b/c you have extra illumination around the area. They just require a bit more care -- they can shatter if youre not careful (i broke my first one within 45 minutes of installing it. Haven't broken one since)

Cheers

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[Locky]

Thank you for the tips, much appreciated. I think the CK model designations are slightly different here in Australia, length in meters for one, but I think the model number CK torch you suggested is a rigid head version? If this is the case, is there a compelling reason for rigid over flex? I was intending to go with a flex head version as I imagine it would be more adaptable to difficult angles etc? I see some builders using very large cup sizes on occasion e.g. 1", when would this make sense to use as it seems, as you have also suggested cups in the 8-10 range are typical?

Cheers,

Locky 

[False A]

I have never used a flex head. I could definitely see the benefits of a flex or rotating head when welding in the BB/CS area or in other tight areas but I've just never made the switch. 

If my memory serves right, Rody from Groovy has posted a few warnings about flex heads being troublesome down the line -- they can break and compromise shielding gas -- but that's probably just something to be aware of not a warning away from. 

This Old Tony has a video on you tube about rotating heads. It's worth a look. 

If you didn't know, TIG cup size is based in  1/16  "Freedom Units"  

#5  = 5/16" ~ 8mm

#8 = 8/16" (1/2") ~ 13mm  

#10 = 10/16 (5/8") ~ 16mm

#12 = 12/16" (3/4") ~ 19mm

I've tried most sizes from #5 - #14 and found that, for steel, #8 and #10 give me the best balance of gas coverage, stick out and size. I choose the Furick Jazzy most of the time because the triple diffuser (1 gas lens + 2 diffusers in the cup) help in a drafty environment. 

I could see using a larger cup for titanium or stainless but I haven't felt the need for steel (what I'm lacking isn't solved with new equipment). 

Kris from 44 Bikes has an interesting set-up: he'll use a larger gas lens and #10 cup (aimed at a 26 torch IIRC) and then holds the torch like a pencil. You can see similar set-ups on Seven's instagram.

This is something I'm trying out now. It feels very strange but I definitely see the merits . . . especially before my 2nd Highball of the day. 

Hope this helps. 

[Dan Chambers]

Hi Locky,

I use a WP9 flex head, but currently considering a WP9 flex-loc instead, or maybe the i-head ball-joint head.

The flex head allows quick changes in head position, but definitely dies quicker than a fixed head, especially if you are pushing the amperage limits so it's running hot.
The flexible copper alloy tubes inside the neck do fail, but you can feel the neck going soft over time, so best to have a spare on hand or replacement programme. I reckon on a new flex head every 6-9 months, but can but the heads separate from the super-flex hose, so fairly cheap to keep in stock ($20 USD or so).

On cups, a Furick Jazzy #10 for main joints, with a #8 standard CK gas lens cup for any welded small parts (usually, I just braze these on, but sometimes it's a repair that requires matching the original method).
I do have a Moose Knuckle #14 on hand, and very occasionally use it where I need extra electrode stickout and coverage, such as CS/BB and SS/ST joints. Using something that big all the time, while it would work just fine, but at 50% more flow than a #10, it' would be a huge waste of shielding gas.

All the best,
Dan Chambers

[Locky]

Thank you for the valuable advice and information about TIG torches and related details, I have found this very helpful and is much appreciated. I need to think about my options a little more now but am much more confident about what should work for me, cheers.