Fattic Frame Jig

[Gerry Parkes]

Has anyone out there used a Fattic frame jig?  If so, your thoughts on it. And, is Mr. Fattic still offering for sale.  I found info on his Ukrainian Bike Tour site with info on the jig, but it looks like the site has data as of 2009.  Any information would be appreciated.

Gerry

[Andrew R Stewart]

Gerry- I have "played' with Doug's sizing jig a couple of times. As I knew my dimensioning and geometry my playing was mostly to understand the jig's manor and have some fun. The design is very well thought out and easy to use. No computer or calculators needed. Only some basic dimensions and the components you plan to use. It's able to accommodate a range of tubing diameters and angles. The most recent versions have BB drop, tube angle and other readouts.

 

By placing the seat and post, bar and stem or crank and pedal on top of the jig (in the proper places for your fit) the tubes' locations and lengths will be had. It's very much like drafting in full scale but with the jig's elements instead of pencil lines.

 

While the best surface to use the jig on is a proper precision flat plate/surface any reasonable surface will do for the initial set up. Each tube's supporting "v" holder is height adjustable. Even on a true surface plate the frame is only tacked in the jig and the alignment prior to finish brazing is done off jig. 

 

Hope this helps. Andy.

   

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Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, NY

[Joe Roggenbuck]

I used it in his class three years ago. Like Andrew said, it is very much intended for designing frames in the jig. It's a really cool feature. I made my own main triangle jig that was loosely based on Doug's ideas, but more and more I found it was easier for me to design in bike cad and then fixture more arbitrarily. BCAD tells me how far forward of the bb the point where the axis of the head tube and the horizontal line through bb center meet. So my fixture doesn't have to actually involve moving scales for bb drop or fork rake.  It is a simpler jig for sure. The advantage of Doug's jig is that you get a more hands-on approach to designing. You can put saddles and stems right on the jig and see the relationships with your eyes. It's very easy to design a diamond frame.  It even has a ruler built in that will tell you stand over clearance!  Doug definitely has been refining the design for a long time.

Doug's jig is also mainly just for the front triangle. In class he would have us use a tee tool for holding the chainstays for brazing. If you want to build bikes with vertical dropouts, especially ones without lugged bb shells, rear end alignment would be kinda tedious, at least compared to an anvil or Sputnik or something.

I think he does still sell them, and as of a year or so ago I think he quoted me $2500, but my memory might be off.

It's a really clever and well thought out jig made well from laser cut stainless steel. I feel like its best suited to lugged building, or at least lugged chainstay socket BB's.

Joe Roggenbuck,

Syracuse, NY

On Sunday, June 16, 2013, Gerry Parkes wrote:

Has anyone out there used a Fattic frame jig?  If so, your thoughts on it. And, is Mr. Fattic still offering for sale.  I found info on his Ukrainian Bike Tour site with info on the jig, but it looks like the site has data as of 2009.  Any information would be appreciated.

Gerry

--

[Bruce Hawkings]

Try this link for info about Doug's frame jig

http://www.ukrainebicycletours.com/FramebuildingFixtures.html

Bruce Hawkings
Waterloo ON

[Gerry Parkes]

Guys:

Thanks for the input. About 5 minutes after my post, I e-mailed Doug at the address on the UBT website - he responded by 5:30 AM this morning with info. For those interested, he can fill an order for the jig upon request. He's sending me a brochure and I can post details if you'd like.  Thank you again.

Gerry

[Doug Fattic]

Hi Gerry,

Actually I read all the posts on this list.  Some years ago more beginners asked rookie questions to veterans so I would contribute more (like how-to-braze) but now our members seem more experienced.  There has been an increase in other sites with newbie questions.

I don't put much about my business on the web because my ratio of inquiries to work is about right.  More interests just mean more emails to answer that would say "sorry but…".  Primarily I teach framebuilding classes.  They fill well in advance.  I have the advantages of real teaching degrees and having learned framebuilding in Europe during the bike boom.  Diligent students always find me.  I can then personally send them lots of information.  

I designed and have my fixture made (it is laser cut and etched out of stainless steel) so it will do what I want for myself and my students.  Incidentally I can place an order as a courtesy to those that want one.  Its concept comes from England where a simple version was used by many of the classic builders.  4 flat pieces represent the main triangle and an outside frame holds them in position and shows angles.  The bottom piece represents the wheel base line so it is easy to measure drop and have a point that represents the front wheel.  Over the years I've added many bells and whistles with the help of a variety of machinists and engineers.  I have literally spent hundreds of hours refining it.  What I wanted was something very easy to set up and change.  I can even read the top tube straddle height right on the fixture.  Tube alignment can be adjusted and is based off of the flat table it sits on.      

I can design a frame in the fixture using a real seat and stem (representing the rider's contact points).  Fixture readings make it simple to place them in their required position.  Of course if I already know the dimensions, I use the etched marks to set the fixture.  There is no need for a full scale drawing.  It is easy to check the accuracy of miters (I don't want to have to use the miters set the fixture).  One important feature to me is the ability to actually see what stuff is above the head tube so I can change variables to limit stem exposure or number of stackers.  A custom frame shouldn't look dorky even when the handlebars are getting close to the saddle height.  

My fixture is not abstract (no need for trig to find the bottom of the head tube) so that makes it easy for students to understand frame design.  It does what I want it to do while others do not.  It may or may not work for you (or anyone else).  It does makes me happy :).  I can use an accessory to make sure the top tube is level or angled a certain degree.  A discussion of fixture design would be a worthy subject thread.  Many framebuilders just adapt their building techniques to the fixture they buy.  I did it the other way around.    

Doug Fattic

Niles, Michigan             

     

From: Gerry Parkes
Subject: [Frame] Re: Fattic Frame Jig

Guys:

Thanks for the input. About 5 minutes after my post, I e-mailed Doug at the address on the UBT website - he responded by 5:30 AM this morning with info. For those interested, he can fill an order for the jig upon request. He's sending me a brochure and I can post details if you'd like.  Thank you again.

Gerry

On Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:46:06 PM UTC-4, Gerry Parkes wrote:

Has anyone out there used a Fattic frame jig?  If so, your thoughts on it. And, is Mr. Fattic still offering for sale.  I found info on his Ukrainian Bike Tour site with info on the jig, but it looks like the site has data as of 2009.  Any information would be appreciated.

Gerry

On Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:46:06 PM UTC-4, Gerry Parkes wrote: