Heat treated vs non-Heat treated tubing
Harold Bielstein
Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net
jon norstog
For any given client's bicycle, you can get away with a thinner-wall tubeset it's HT. That allows you to build a springier, more compliant frame. Some people claim they can detect a difference in ride quuality between HT and "normalized" cro-moly in frames built with tubing of the same thickness and diameter. I'll believe it when Jan Heine gets that result on one of his double blind tests.
If you are building a compliant frame, go with the HT!
jn
"Thursday"
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
framebuilder...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en
dave bohm
does not change amongst the same steel when its heat treated (or pretty much
any steel for that matter)
Therefore, two tube sets of identical geometry but one is HT will behave
exactly the same. Now, the HT set will have a higher ultimate strength
level but that is often only important in high loading situations (crashing,
serious punishment)
The placebo effect? That is a different story.
Dave B
Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
Searchable archives for this group can be found at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and
http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
framebuilder...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4770 - Release Date: 01/27/12
Alex Wetmore
I'm building up a spreadsheet here which has tubing weights and a very basic denting comparison:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApDUc1aitxKEdFNzX2h0WnB5XzVpMHlpTy1vMWt1ckE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Check the tabs on the bottom of the spreadsheet to see the dent one. You may also find the weight ones interesting.
I don't know how they've heat treated the 8360, so I had to make a bit of a guess on it's yield strength. However like most of the other heat treated tubing it appears to allow for a 7/4/7 tube with about the same dent resistance as a 9/6/9 4130 tube.
I'd like to add tube deflection to it at some point too, but the last time that I ran those calculations a 7/4/7 OS and 9/6/9 standard tube had very similar properties. So the short summary is that 7/4/7 OS heat treated gives you a bike that is lighter than 9/6/9 standard with a similar ride.
alex
________________________________________
From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [frameb...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Harold Bielstein [hkbie...@rap.midco.net]
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:33 AM
To: Framebuilders
Subject: [Frame] Heat treated vs non-Heat treated tubing
I see that Kaisei has standard and oversized tube sets identified as 4130 and they also have versions of the same tube sets identified as 8630R. So I presume the 8630R tube sets are heat treated. Would there be any difference in the ride qualities between a bike built with 4130 tubes and the same bike built with 8630R tubes?
Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net
Clockwork
Very interesting. Thanks for your work and thanks for sharing. Let
us know when it's completed.
-Joel
On Jan 27, 11:39 am, Alex Wetmore <a...@phred.org> wrote:
> The heat treated tubes allow you to use thinner tubing without the risk of denting.
>
> Check the tabs on the bottom of the spreadsheet to see the dent one. You may also find the weight ones interesting.
>
> I don't know how they've heat treated the 8360, so I had to make a bit of a guess on it's yield strength. However like most of the other heat treated tubing it appears to allow for a 7/4/7 tube with about the same dent resistance as a 9/6/9 4130 tube.
>
> I'd like to add tube deflection to it at some point too, but the last time that I ran those calculations a 7/4/7 OS and 9/6/9 standard tube had very similar properties. So the short summary is that 7/4/7 OS heat treated gives you a bike that is lighter than 9/6/9 standard with a similar ride.
>
> alex
> ________________________________________
> To: Framebuilders
> Subject: [Frame] Heat treated vs non-Heat treated tubing
>
> I see that Kaisei has standard and oversized tube sets identified as 4130 and they also have versions of the same tube sets identified as 8630R. So I presume the 8630R tube sets are heat treated. Would there be any difference in the ride qualities between a bike built with 4130 tubes and the same bike built with 8630R tubes?
>
> Hal Bielstein
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Framebuilders" group.
>