Low Fuming Bronze vs C-04?

[Kevin Armstrong]

Hi Folks!

Are people using LFB for fillet brazing 4130 or sticking to C-04?

I recently acquired 20lbs of WA (Washington Alloy) LFB RbCuZn-C with another purchase and wondering if I should use this on bikes or keep it to practice use. The specs say their nearly identical to C-04 but for the addition of nickel and slightly higher Liquidous. 

Any real world data on it out there? 

https://www.washingtonalloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/lfb.pdf

https://www.gasflux.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/GASFLUX-DATA-SHEET-C-04-NICKEL-BRONZE-2016-11-07.pdf

Thanks!

Kevin Armstrong

Six Mile Bikes

Nelson, BC

[Jon Norstog]

Kevin, list:  I've been using what Henry James was selling for years.  I always assumed it was low-fuming bronze. He sold GasFlux fluxes, so I'm assuming the bronze was from the same source.  If you have 20 pounds of the WA stuff, I would say use it and see how it works.  

Prior to using the HJ bronze I used coated Welco 17. It's a nickel-bronze material with superior strength and unlike most nickel "silver" rods is easy to file and finish. I still use it for dropouts and stuff that needs the extra strength, but it tends to get flux bubbles that mar the appearance of fillets.

HTH

jn

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
 
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
 
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
framebuilder...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilder...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/framebuilders/7c378fc5-8460-4da7-9c9d-21c4244d07cen%40googlegroups.com.

[M-gineering]

I never could get CuNi rod to work untill I paired it with Cycle Design
flux.
But I don't like to file it (Hard, Nickel etc) so I use it where the
extra strenght is usefull and I don't need to file it extensively

On 10/2/2024 6:23 PM, Jon Norstog wrote:
> Kevin, list:  I've been using what Henry James was selling for years.  I
> always assumed it was low-fuming bronze. He sold GasFlux fluxes, so I'm
> assuming the bronze was from the same source.  If you have 20 pounds of
> the WA stuff, I would say use it and see how it works.
>
> Prior to using the HJ bronze I used coated Welco 17. It's a
> nickel-bronze material with superior strength and unlike most nickel
> "silver" rods is easy to file and finish. I still use it for dropouts
> and stuff that needs the extra strength, but it tends to get flux
> bubbles that mar the appearance of fillets.
>
> HTH
>
> jn
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 8:52 AM Kevin Armstrong <sixmil...@gmail.com
> <mailto:sixmil...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks!
>
> Are people using LFB for fillet brazing 4130 or sticking to C-04?
>
> I recently acquired 20lbs of WA (Washington Alloy) LFB RbCuZn-C with
> another purchase and wondering if I should use this on bikes or keep
> it to practice use. The specs say their nearly identical to C-04 but
> for the addition of nickel and slightly higher Liquidous.
>
> Any real world data on it out there?
>
> https://www.washingtonalloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/lfb.pdf

> <https://www.washingtonalloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/lfb.pdf>
>
> https://www.gasflux.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/GASFLUX-DATA-SHEET-C-04-NICKEL-BRONZE-2016-11-07.pdf <https://www.gasflux.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/GASFLUX-DATA-SHEET-C-04-NICKEL-BRONZE-2016-11-07.pdf>

>
> Thanks!
>
> Kevin Armstrong
> Six Mile Bikes
> Nelson, BC
--

mvg

Marten Gerritsen

Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[Kevin Armstrong]

Thanks Jon and folks for reaching out. 

So far the WA Alloy LFB is making great fillets.

Best, 

Kevin Armstrong

Six Mile Bicycles Inc.

sixmilebikes.com

250 551 0709

[Ethan Labowitz]

I meant to add, my pickiness about fluxes is far higher than my pickiness about rod. I find I can lay decent fillets or do decent capillary brazing with C-04, or any brand of LFB, far better than I can do any brazing with low quality flux.
My top preference for bronze brazing flux is Cycle Design LFB, followed by Gasflux's offering, followed by every other bronze brazing flux I've ever tried.

Ethan (he/they)
sent from mobile

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/framebuilders/CAETCYZ-3SLZxuQpiReX5nmURYXWukFEp4SugnRJewBTas6aHAA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ethan Labowitz]

The differences between LFB and C-04 aren't large enough for me personally to warrant a preference for C-04.
Some brands and batches of LFB are inconsistent, and that's annoying AF, so do some test brazes for sure with the batch you have on hand.

Ethan (he/they)
sent from mobile

--

[Michael F.]

I have a question for all you bronze-heads. I've seen some references in old welding books to use a very slightly Oxidizing flame when doing fillet brazing.

Does it make any difference compared to a neutral flame ? 

Has anyone tried it ?

Thanks !

Michael / MF in SF

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/framebuilders/CAO6gwXh4D5QanNGrnyUxN3_%3D62eJNoJ89S2kqp8oX%2BMSaSAWKg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Alex Meade]

Michael F,

Recognizing it's really tough to tell (and set) a slightly reducing/neutral/slightly oxidizing flame by just looking at the flame, I once did an experiment when I was doing a production run, with Gasflux C-04 and Gasflux Type B paste flux.  

My conclusion was a neutral to ever so slightly reducing flame seemed to produce the smoothest joints, fewest pinholes and overall best results.  Oxidizing seemed to me to be the worst.  

But this was all a few years ago and I could be mis-remembering.  I aim for dead neutral these days with LFB.

Alex

www.alexmeadetools.com

[Alistair Spence]

Regarding pinholes/porosity,

I watched the fillet brazing demo that Tom Ritchey did at the recent MADE show in Portland and he was explaining how in his opinion, different batches of rod can vary quite a bit in terms of how they behave during brazing, especially with respect to porosity. It comes down to quality control at the source, where the bronze is milled.

He said that he developed a habit early on of returning product that didn't meet his standards. If, after testing a few rods from a batch it didn't have the characteristics that he was looking for, then back it went.

I got the impression that he had built up such a good backstock of high quality bronze brazing rod, that he hasn't had to purchase any in quite some time.

Lastly, and not that anyone asked, but Tom was incredibly generous with answering questions and sharing knowledge on all things brazing. For me, it was the highlight of the show. What a nice bloke.

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/framebuilders/420cfaf1-bae7-47fb-b0b0-e854a126c27en%40googlegroups.com.

--

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.