Argon Tank Transport

[Sean Chaney]

For better or worse, I've been able to haul my argon tanks in my car for the past six years but my gas supplier has just changed their policy.  I've been informed that today is the last day I'll be able to load the tank into my car on their property.  

Since my wife won't let me buy a truck specifically for this task, I'm considering making a rack that I can plug into my hitch.  Has anyone out there already done something like this?  It seems fairly straightforward but if there's something to learn about it, I'm interested.

Sean

[M-gineering]

Why not park outside the gate and walk in with a trolley

--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[Hahn Rossman]

Sean
My local welding supply delivers for a nominal fee.this is only convenient if you have at least two tanks, but you might consider it.

Hahn Rossman
Alkifoundry.com

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[Larry James]

I don't know if this is the case for everyone in the US, but my local companies will not deliver to a residential neighborhood.

Larry

framebuilder...@googlegroups.com

[Mathias Scherer]

Not even Argon? I mean what’s the worst thing that could happen (short of turning the thing into a missile by knocking off the valve).

Am 30.01.2012 21:49 Uhr schrieb "Larry James" unter <ljame...@gmail.com>:

I don't know if this is the case for everyone in the US, but my local companies will not deliver to a residential neighborhood.

Larry

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Hahn Rossman <ha...@alkifoundry.com> wrote:

Sean
My local welding supply delivers for a nominal fee.this is only convenient if you have at least two tanks, but you might consider it.

Hahn Rossman
Alkifoundry.com

On Jan 30, 2012 10:53 AM, "M-gineering" <in...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:

On 30-1-2012 19:40, Sean Chaney wrote:

For better or worse, I've been able to haul my argon tanks in my car for
the past six years but my gas supplier has just changed their policy.
  I've been informed that today is the last day I'll be able to load the
tank into my car on their property.

Since my wife won't let me buy a truck specifically for this task, I'm
considering making a rack that I can plug into my hitch.  Has anyone out
there already done something like this?  It seems fairly straightforward
but if there's something to learn about it, I'm interested.

Sean

Why not park outside the gate and walk in with a trolley

--
Mathias Scherer
Ludwig & Scherer GmbH
Wintringerstrasse 19
66271 Kleinblittersdorf

Geschäftsführer Mathias Scherer

[John Caletti]

My supplier won't let me bring the big ones in my car, but a smaller size, one at a time is allowed. I traded in the big one and got two of the next size down (150 cu ft I think). They are ok with that being transported in a car.
I'm not supposed to transport acetylene. Last time I walked there with it in a backpack - ouch.

-John Caletti

[Jake Rosenfeld]

If it was me, I might be tempted to build a hitch rack that carried a
bottle horizontally.

It might be handier that way for things other than a few bottles a
year. Camping, garden stuff and other large objects come to mind.

I dont think a 300 is any longer than your car is wide.

I'm also pretty sure it doesn't hurt anything to lay an argon bottle
down like it does Acytelene.

An extra hole drilled in your reciever with a square nut welded on the
outside makes a great spot for a bolt or threaded handle to keep the
flopping to a minimum.

Jake

[Andrew R Stewart]

Sean- I believe the concern in carrying gas cylinders in one's car is that of safe containment. The cylinder is usually (and likely required by code or insurance) to be secured upright with metal chains binding it in place and not in the driver's compartment. I would think a cylinder carried in a hitch rack would raise a lot of concerns. In this location it is subject to the stupidity of other drivers (think rear end collision). Also the laying of cylinders on their sides is frowned on. 

 

All this has not stopped me (or many others) from transporting them in their cars with varying security and safety. But the industry is clamping down.

 

Options, as I see, are a few. Rent or borrow a truck. Have a delivery to a "willing" commercial location that you can then use your car from without supplier concerns or knowledge. Hand cart the cylinder from your vehicle parked off the supplier's property, and back. This last one might piss off the counter guy... 

 

I am disappointed to hear that an inert gas is subject to these restrictions. After all O2 is driven around in personal cars all the time (by those who need supplemental O2 for medical needs). last time I exchanged my tanks I used my car and signed a waiver. Andy.

  

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Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, NY

[Ethan Labowitz]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Andrew R Stewart <onet...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Also the laying of cylinders on their sides is frowned on. 

Why would this be true of inert gas cylinders (or even for oxygen cylinders)?  The way I understand it, this is true of acetylene cylinders, as acetylene tanks are filled with a porous filler, which is saturated with acetone, and then the acetylene is dissolved in the acetone.  Dissolving it in acetone allows the acetylene to be compressed over its normal maximum stable pressure of 15 psi, to roughly 200 psi, a pressure that would otherwise make it extremely unstable.

The issue with laying an acetylene tank on its side is that the acetone can get into the cylinder valve, where it can eventually find its way into the rest of your O/A rig and cause all kinds of problems, like dissolving hoses and o-rings.  A good indication that acetone has found its way into your O/A rig is that your flame burns purple--that's when you shut 'er down.

Anyway, as far as I'm aware, no other compressed gas requires the acetone workaround, so it shouldn't matter if those cylinders are laid on their sides, assuming, of course, that they're properly capped and transported safely as usual.

This is what I was taught, but, Andy, you've been doing this longer than me, and I'm interested in your input.

Ethan

[Andrew R Stewart]

Ethan- Yes I believe you are right. But better to state the worst case then trust some people's ability to know what's in the tank. My understanding about acetylene tanks is that after horizontalness you should wait a couple of hours after righting to insure the gas/liquid is settled and drained from the valve. That's what I've done and I'm still here giving seat of the pants advice. Andy.

[mallard]

Thanks Ethan, that was a most concise blurb covering much ground in a Socratic fashion ... keeper.

 

tom mallard
p.s. Likely won't change policy to the insurance agents or bean counters but we know what's up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Labowitz" <elab...@gmail.com>
To: "Andrew R Stewart" <onet...@earthlink.net>
Cc: "Sean Chaney" <vertig...@gmail.com>, "Framebuilders" <frameb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:01:30 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Frame] Argon Tank Transport

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Andrew R Stewart <onet...@earthlink.net> wrote:

[Ethan Labowitz]

better to state the worst case then trust some people's ability to know what's in the tank.

Sort of a "treat all guns as if they're loaded" kind of thing...right on.  I hate think a reasonable person would move a tank without knowing if it's an acetylene tank or not...those people are probably out there, though.

 

My understanding about acetylene tanks is that after horizontalness you should wait a couple of hours after righting to insure the gas/liquid is settled and drained from the valve.

Yep yep.  How long you need to wait depends on who you ask, but longer has got to be better.

 

That's what I've done and I'm still here giving seat of the pants advice. Andy.

We could do a lot worse.

[Wissahickon Cyclery]

I have my tanks delivered and am in a commercial location but here are a few tips.  Many plumbers and construction companies use there homes as their base and get this stuff delivered all the time.  Just because the local welding supply house does not deliver you can find a new source.  Medical supply also deliver gases and often have argon as an option.  Ask some other trade people who they use and eventually you will find someone that will deliver.  If you put up a gas label outside your garage it will usually make the delivery guy happy and won't have an issue with it.  I would never transfer my own tanks, it is just not worth the risk (mostly speaking of Acetylene).

-Drew

Drew Guldalian
Wissahickon Cyclery
7837 Germantown Ave Phila,PA 19118
www.wiss-cycles.com
www.engincycles.com

[Colin Bryant]

It sounds like there's a need for some cargo bikes/trikes, around this list.

 

--

Colin Bryant

Vancouver, Canada

---

From: John Caletti <j...@caletticycles.com>
To: Framebuilders <frameb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:56:43 PM

Subject: Re: [Frame] Argon Tank Transport

My supplier won't let me bring the big ones in my car, but a smaller size, one at a time is allowed. I traded in the big one and got two of the next size down (150 cu ft I think). They are ok with that being transported in a car.
I'm not supposed to transport acetylene. Last time I walked there with it in a backpack - ouch.

-John Caletti

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[Colin Bryant]

The worst thing would be suffocating, because there was nothing but argon, in your car.  But that would require an extremely fast release of argon, which seems extreeeeeeeemly unlikely, even in an accident, with a capped valve, inside a vehicle.

 

--   Colin 

---

From: Mathias Scherer <Mat...@Ludwigundscherer.com>
To: Larry James <ljame...@gmail.com>; Framebuilders <frameb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:00:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Frame] Argon Tank Transport

[Tom W]

Talk to your wife and get a truck. Once you have it you'll wonder how
you got along without it.

On Jan 31, 7:56 am, Wissahickon Cyclery <wisscyc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have my tanks delivered and am in a commercial location but here are a
> few tips.  Many plumbers and construction companies use there homes as
> their base and get this stuff delivered all the time.  Just because the
> local welding supply house does not deliver you can find a new source.
> Medical supply also deliver gases and often have argon as an option.  Ask
> some other trade people who they use and eventually you will find someone
> that will deliver.  If you put up a gas label outside your garage it will
> usually make the delivery guy happy and won't have an issue with it.  I
> would never transfer my own tanks, it is just not worth the risk (mostly
> speaking of Acetylene).
>
> -Drew
>

> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Ethan Labowitz <elabow...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > better to state the worst case then trust some people's ability to know
> >> what's in the tank.
>
> > Sort of a "treat all guns as if they're loaded" kind of thing...right on.
> >  I hate think a reasonable person would move a tank without knowing if it's
> > an acetylene tank or not...those people are probably out there, though.
>
> >> My understanding about acetylene tanks is that after horizontalness you
> >> should wait a couple of hours after righting to insure the gas/liquid is
> >> settled and drained from the valve.
>
> > Yep yep.  How long you need to wait depends on who you ask, but longer has
> > got to be better.
>
> >> That's what I've done and I'm still here giving seat of the pants advice.
> >> Andy.
>
> > We could do a lot worse.
>
> > Ethan
>
> >>  ----- Original Message -----

> >> *From:* Ethan Labowitz <elabow...@gmail.com>
> >> *To:* Andrew R Stewart <onete...@earthlink.net>
> >> *Cc:* Sean Chaney <vertigocyc...@gmail.com> ; Framebuilders<frameb...@googlegroups.com>
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:01 AM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Frame] Argon Tank Transport

>
> >> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Andrew R Stewart <

> >> onete...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>> **

> >>> Also the laying of cylinders on their sides is frowned on.
>
> >> Why would this be true of inert gas cylinders (or even for oxygen
> >> cylinders)?  The way I understand it, this is true of acetylene cylinders,
> >> as acetylene tanks are filled with a porous filler, which is saturated with
> >> acetone, and then the acetylene is dissolved in the acetone.  Dissolving it
> >> in acetone allows the acetylene to be compressed over its normal maximum
> >> stable pressure of 15 psi, to roughly 200 psi, a pressure that would
> >> otherwise make it extremely unstable.
> >> The issue with laying an acetylene tank on its side is that the acetone
> >> can get into the cylinder valve, where it can eventually find its way into
> >> the rest of your O/A rig and cause all kinds of problems, like dissolving
> >> hoses and o-rings.  A good indication that acetone has found its way into
> >> your O/A rig is that your flame burns purple--that's when you shut 'er down.
>
> >> Anyway, as far as I'm aware, no other compressed gas requires the acetone
> >> workaround, so it shouldn't matter if those cylinders are laid on their
> >> sides, assuming, of course, that they're properly capped and transported
> >> safely as usual.
>
> >> This is what I was taught, but, Andy, you've been doing this longer than
> >> me, and I'm interested in your input.
>
> >> Ethan
>
> >>>   ----- Original Message -----

> >>> *From:* Sean Chaney <vertigocyc...@gmail.com>
> >>> *To:* Framebuilders <frameb...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2012 1:40 PM
> >>> *Subject:* [Frame] Argon Tank Transport

>
> >>> For better or worse, I've been able to haul my argon tanks in my car for
> >>> the past six years but my gas supplier has just changed their policy.  I've
> >>> been informed that today is the last day I'll be able to load the tank into
> >>> my car on their property.
>
> >>> Since my wife won't let me buy a truck specifically for this task, I'm
> >>> considering making a rack that I can plug into my hitch.  Has anyone out
> >>> there already done something like this?  It seems fairly straightforward
> >>> but if there's something to learn about it, I'm interested.
>
> >>> Sean
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups "Framebuilders" group.
>
> >>> Searchable archives for this group can be found at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders(recent content) and

> >>>http://search.bikelist.org(older content).

>
> >>> To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> framebuilder...@googlegroups.com
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en
>
> >>> Andrew R Stewart
> >>> Rochester, NY
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups "Framebuilders" group.
>
> >>> Searchable archives for this group can be found at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders(recent content) and

> >>>http://search.bikelist.org(older content).

>
> >>> To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en
>
> >> --
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> >> Searchable archives for this group can be found at
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> >>http://search.bikelist.org(older content).

>
> >> To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
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>
> >> Andrew R Stewart
> >> Rochester, NY
>
> >  --
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[mtnredhed]

On Jan 31, 6:36 am, Tom W <wechsler....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Talk to your wife and get a truck.  Once you have it you'll wonder how
> you got along without it.
>

or...get a harbor freight trailer and install an upright tank rack.
We got the 4x8 ft trailer (half ton model), and it's replaced nearly
any need for a pickup (and we had a 3/4 ton for many years). I can
see where you'd need to add some bracing for tank racks, but if you
already know how to braze or weld...

jim