AW1A Torch Tips

[Hal Bielstein]

I recently picked up an AW1A handle and the following tips: aw20, aw200, aw2000, aw201 and aw203. I haven't tried using the torch yet but was wondering if any of the tips could be used with oxy/propane?




Sent from Hal's iPad

[Ryan Christbaum]

Smith's current LP tips for the AW1A are the NE series that goes on the AT-61 threaded tip tube. The NE153 is .086" like the AW210, and it works well for things I'd otherwise use the AW205 or AW207.  Those first four tips aren't even listed in the brochure I've got and look like they are even smaller than the 203 which would seem to rather limit the bike work you'd be able to do.  Retired jewelry maker's setup?

-Ryan

[Doug Fattic]

Hal, those are pretty small tips.  The smallest I use with acetylene when doing braze-ons is the AW203 (the biggest one in your group).  Since propane is a bit cooler than acetylene I tend to go up a couple of tip sizes when I switch to propane.  In Ukraine where we use propane I used the AW207 with a Smith AW1A torch handle for general brazing purposes.  However the AW2XXX series are designed to be used with acetylene so while they will work with propane they don’t work as well as a mixer/tip designed for propane.  Smith doesn’t make the propane specific tips for the AW1A torch handle anymore.  If some used ones could be found, they were the AW4XXX series.  They went the way of the no-longer-available AW204 tip.  The only mixer/elbow for the AW1A torch handle they now make specifically for propane is the AT-61 that requires a small screw on tip to complete the set-up.  It has bigger and more fuel holes than their AT-60 which is for acetylene.

Smith makes 2 series of little screw on tips that are designed to go on their AT-60 and AT-61 mixers - the LT series and the NE series.  In their catalog they indicate the smaller LT series (LT101 to LT106) is for acetylene on the AT-60 elbow mixer and the bigger NE series (NE151 to NE156) is for propane on their AT-61 elbow/mixer.  In fact all these tips screw on to either mixer/elbow.  The only difference is their orifice size.  And you need to set your regulators to more output pressure with the NEs.  The point of saying this is that most of the time, the NE series are too big for doing something on a bike frame (except when brazing bottom bracket shells and fork crowns) and I use the smaller LT tips (that they indicate are for acetylene) on my AT-61 mixer when using propane.  YMMV.  I find tip size preference varies a lot among builders.  

What is confusing about the markings on these little Smith tips is that they are marked only by their equivalent drill size.  And as a drill size hole gets bigger the drill size number gets smaller.  So for example the LT-103 only says 63 on its side (it doesn’t say LT-103).  The NE151 with a much larger hole is marked 50.

Now having explained all about what propane specific stuff works with the Smith AW1A handle, I prefer using Victor propane specific tips because they have a recess on the end of the orifice that helps keep a propane flame attached to the tip.  The Smith tips don’t have this recess (of course you could drill them).  It isn’t a big difference but I like to use the best equipment possible.  Last month (October 2014) I brought back from Ukraine the AW1A torch handle with Kevlar hoses we were using there and replaced it with a Victor J-28 with TM Technologies light hoses.  Those hoses are still light but more durable and rated for propane.  I don’t know if Smith Kevlar hoses are rated for propane.  Does anyone know?  I found I used 4 different Victor TEN tips from the #1 to #4 when building our transportation frames.  I used to like the 2-TEN for fillets when using propane but found I now prefer the 1-TEN for fillet brazing.  And to be clear I attached the TM hose only on the last section of hose which were connected to standard rubber hoses going to the tanks.

By the way Hal, I just had a student cancel his space in my 2 week December 1 to December 12 class (I usually teach 3 week classes because there is a lot of information to be crammed in).  He just lost his job.  I can make you a screaming good deal on his space if you want to come for all or part of that time.  

Here is a chart to help understand tip sizing:

Welding tip number	Notes	Tip orifice size in inches	Equivalent drill size
Smith AW203	Smith’s elbow/mixer tip for acetylene for the AW1A handle	0.032”	67
Victor 0-W-J	Victor’s #0 size mixer/tip for acetylene for the J-28 handle	0.035”	65
Smith LT103 tip	This tip is marked 63 – which represents drill size #63.  It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene	0.037”	63
Victor 1-W-J	Victor’s #1 size mixer/tip for acetylene for the J-28 handle	0.040”	60
Victor 1-TEN tip	Screw-on #1 size tip for the UN-J mixer/elbow for propane on the J-28 torch handle.	0.040”	60
Smith AW205	Smith’s elbow/mixer tip for acetylene for the AW1A handle	0.043”	57
Smith LT104 tip	This tip is marked 56 – which represents drill size #56. It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene	0.046”	56
Victor 2-TEN tip	Screw-on #2 size tip for the UN-J mixer/elbow for propane on the J-28 torch handle.	0.046”	56
Smith AW207	Smith’s elbow/mixer tip for acetylene for the AW1A handle	0.055”	54
Smith LT105 tip	This tip is marked 54 – which represents drill size #54. It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene	0.055”	54
Victor 3-TEN tip	Screw-on #3 size tip for the UN-J mixer/elbow for propane on the J-28 torch handle.	0.060”	53
Smith LT106 tip	This tip is marked 52 – which represents drill size #52. It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene.	0.064”	52
Smith NE151 tip	This tip is marked 50 – which represents drill size #50. It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene	0.070”	50
Victor 4-TEN tip	Screw-on #3 size tip for the UN-J mixer/elbow for propane on the J-28 torch handle.	0.073”	49
Smith NE152 tip	This tip is marked 48 – which represents drill size #48. It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene	0.076”	48
Smith NE153 tip	This tip is marked 44 – which represents drill size #44. It is for Smith’s AT-61 mixer elbow for propane or AT-60 for acetylene	0.086”	44

[Alex Wetmore]

​Doug, Thanks for sharing this great info.

When I bought my Smith hoses (many years ago now) they were rated for propane.  At the time the TM ones were not.  It looks like both are rated for it today.

I do use Victor acetylene tips with propane in the smallest sizes (when I bought my tips there was no propane tip for #0 or #1).  They work fine, but the propane tips with the recessed bore work better.  I mostly use #0, #2, #4 since those are what I have in threaded tips.   I have a #5, but it rarely gets used (I find the #4 suitable for lugs and fork crowns).  I also have a #1 and #3 with integrated mixer, but rarely use them because I prefer to replace the tip instead of the whole mixer.

alex

---

From: frameb...@googlegroups.com <frameb...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Doug Fattic <fatticb...@qtm.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 8:29 AM
To: frameb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Frame] Re: AW1A Torch Tips

 

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
 
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
 
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
framebuilder...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilder...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Harold Bielstein]

Appreciate all the replies. I have been using a Pres-to-lite W200 handle I bought from Wade Barocsi. Tips are marked 4, 9 and 30. I modified all the tips to include a small countersink to work better with Oxy/Propane. That made a significant improvement in avoiding flame detachment. I had an opportunity to pick up the Smith AW1A handle and tips so I took it. If one is good, 2 must be better… right? Always good to have a spare. So now I’ll have to pick up an AW207 tip.

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Framebuilders" group.
>
> Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
>
> To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> framebuilder...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilder...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net

[Andrew R Stewart]

Presto-Lite is also Purox IFAIK. I have both the W300 and W200 handles. I
got the bigger 300 thinking a real builder used big tools. Well I found out
I wasn't a real builder and the 300 was big alright.

Hal- Do you know the hole size of the #30 tip? must be big enough to park a
car in:) The largest I have is a #15 which is about .059" diameter. I've
read that the tip size is a rating of the cubic feet of gas that can be
flowed per a time unit. So I wonder if the 330 is about .085" diameter, or
about twice the volume of the #15? With the OA I use I rarely use the #15
tip. Andy.



Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, NY USA