Paint: Changing from automotive to Rustoleum & Majic alkyd oils

[John Clay]

I'm changing to Rustoleum and Majic alkyd oil paint for my frames. Automotive paint is painfully expensive and because I paint so infrequently most of my activator supply dries in the can before being used; and primer, base and clear each use a different one! I'd need three cans of activator at over $100 in order to use my remaining automotive paint system, and that's assuming that the other components are serviceable which isn't certain. They're pretty old.

For little more than the cost of a single can of automotive activator I purchased primer, two half pints of color, activator and clear. The activator isn't necessary but its cheap, drastically speeds the cure and is supposed to increase durability. Acetone, mineral spirits or Rustoleum/Majic reducer can be used to thin; for the sake of simplicity (fewer chemicals to stock) I'm going with the MS & acetone I already have. It sprays nicely and glosses like an automotive single stage. On the test piece I shot I'm not sure the clear added any gloss though it's supposed to increase durability and retard fading. 

I couldn't quite get the orange I wanted from the cans of red and yellow so I got a can of Kubota Orange.

Tractor Supply Company sells both Majic and Rustoleum farm and implement paints (both are alkyd oils). The regular Rustoleum colors are widely available.

This is my supply and the test piece I shot. It's a simple system that's easy to apply and very glossy without the clear.  Its curing and getting tougher in spite of wet & cold temps here, lately. 

John Clay

Tallahassee, Florida 

[Cameron Murphy]

John,

It's true that Alkyd Enamels are much cheaper than automotive Urethanes, but there some serious downsides to them.  There are generally a lot of concerns beyond just paint cost.  Alkyd enamels can look great when new, but don't handle weather and UV as well as automotive paint.  There is a reason all those 50s and 60s bikes original paint looks so bad, while high end paint jobs from the 70s with Imron (2k Urethane) in many cases still look great.   Also, the urethane paints will cure and reach full hardness in days to weeks, rather than months to years like Alkyd enamel.   Lastly, Alkyd enamel will lift and wrinkle if you try shooting any of the hotter 2k clears over it, as it doesn't catalyze, it just hardens by drying.

One of the only serious pluses for Alkyd enamel is that it doesn't have any of the very toxic isocyanate hardeners necessary for urethane paint.   (Be aware that the "activator", "catalyst hardener" for your enamel is the same toxic isocyanate, and really needs supplied air, full body protection for safe use.)

Painting a bike represents a huge amount of work to do it right.  I wouldn't want to trade durability and years of service life, for cheaper material costs.   (This is for bikes valuable enough to be worth a repaint.  Anything cheaper == powder coat in my book.  Even less work than a cheap paint job, and 10x the durability, for not that much cost.)

Cameron Murphy

San Marcos, CA

[John Clay]

Cameron,

Thanks for the perspectives. It's good information and the auto urethanes are doubtless superior but for my purposes I think the alkyd oils will work satisfactorily. If not, no big shakes. I can always revert.

I'm not looking for contest quality painting and the ability to more easily repair paint chips, which occur with urethane coated frames too, is attractive. My bicycles won't get exposed to the sun and rain to the degree common with automobiles. If they fade a little, so be it. If I start to see significant failures and failure rates such that rust becomes a problem, then I'd consider this exercise a failure. At that point I'd go with a single stage, and one color for all my frames until it's consumed.

Thanks - I appreciate your feedback. I'll let the list know how this works out.

John

[Alex Meade]

Slight change in topic to respond to Cameron's comments.  

I no longer powdercoat frames I sell, based on a couple of bad experiences and knowledge I gained the hard way.  The first was a high end frame the customer specifically wanted powder coated for chip resistance.  I had the coating done by a well-known and expensive coater, and it looked as good as PC can look.  Three years later, the frame came back to me with small bubbles all over the frame caused by rust spots on the tubes, under the PC.  This particular customer rides a lot, and rides wet roads frequently.  I took photos of the bubbles for the coater, and was informed that "this happens sometimes, but it's out of warranty."  It was on my $$ and time to remove the powdercoat (and, BTW, I couldn't do it with media blasting without risking damaging the tubes so it had to be dipped and chemically stripped) and repaint with wet automotive paint.  Second, a painter I've worked with has told me he very often sees rust spots under PC he removes.  Although he does both PC and wet paint finishes, he's leery of using PC because of the rust he's observed under the PC coatings he's taken off frames.  Like most of us, I assumed that PC is a solid, impervious layer of plastic, but apparently it's somewhat porous to water and salt.  Maybe someone on this list can explain the chemistry at work here.  I can't.  

Bottom line in my mind: PC is great for chip resistance, but it's not as good as wet paint for corrosion resistance.

I should add that I have a few bikes in customers' hands that have had no issues for many years with powdercoat finishes, but I don't powdercoat frames any more.  I don't like unhappy customers.

And finally, I had one wet-painted bike that started bubbling up after just a few weeks.  In this case, the painter stripped and repainted the frame at his cost, as he had learned he had a bad can of Imron primer.  So wet paint isn't always perfect either, but at least the expectation of painters and customers is it *should* be a no-excuses coating.

Alex

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 8:13:40 PM UTC-5, Cameron Murphy wrote:

[Nick Foley]

Agree with this assessment. I have designed and deployed many bike (parking) racks over the years, and when the goal is 5-10 years of outdoor use, powdercoating is something I would avoid if I could. It's easy for the end result of a PC job to look perfect - glossy, smooth, uniform, tough - but have underlying adhesion problems that will ruin you down the road. There are many "moments of faith" in the PC process - cleaning, etching,  zinc primer application, primer bake, topcoat application, topcoat bake - which you can only verify were done correctly via destructive testing at the end of the process, and your only recourse is usually a full strip and recoat. Process control is surely critical for liquid coatings, too - but I have had fewer catastrophic failure experiences there, and more of them were caught before the product was in the field. We still powdercoat racks, but it is using an applicator with whom we have a long relationship & a contracted warranty, so quality stays high.

That being said, if I were to be coating frames in my own garage-type space, I would probably powdercoat, because of the simplicity and safety...

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
 
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
 
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
framebuilders+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilders+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[John Clay]

Powder coating never appealed to me for bicycle frames. It was just a gut reaction but I wasn't interested. Terminally so now. Thanks for the inside information!

If I was making frames for paying customers I'd send them to one of the folks who specialize in wet bicycle paint. Period. But these are for me and family members. If my $60 alkyd oil experiment works merely reasonably well then then I'm in Fat City. Although I appreciate outstanding finish work, it's the design and construction details under the paint that truly matter from my perspective. And if the oil stuff doesn't cut the mustard then I'll simply pick one brand (I have two now, Nason and PPG), one series within that brand (I have several now), one color (down from a half dozen) and a single stage system unless I needed clear for decal/lettering protection. In retrospect maybe I should have chosen that route instead of the Rustoleum/Majic but I was/am curious as to how it might pan out. If it bombs then the local Habitat For Humanity will get a small paint donation.

I wonder if a single "universal" activator can be had, or if there exists a particular brand/series that uses a single activator? One that can be used with primer, base and clear, or just primer and single stage color? Perhaps a chat with a supply house is in order.

I appreciate all the on and off list information that folks have provided. I've gotten quite a few neat tips and the benefit of a lot of experience.

Thank you all,
John Clay
Tallahassee, Florida

[John Clay]

After all of that thrashing about, I've come full circle, and without painting a frame. Recent scratch testing of my Rustoleum painted test piece was disappointing. It hasn't cured for a terribly long time but I didn't expect to be able to scratch down to the primer with a fingernail. I tried that on a several frames I painted with Nason (one Ful-Base & one Ful-Thane) & one PPG (Global Refinishing) and it felt like I was trying scratch glass; it just wasn't going to happen. In fairness, the cure times are years vs. a few weeks but that was enough to get me to reevaluate. I took another look at my auto paint stock, checked some technical details and realized that I don't need to get any more activator to make use of 90% of it. In addition, the primers and bases mixed up OK too; I thought they had become unusable but, happily, it appears not.

Some of the technical details I found, which may be useful to others: Nearly all of my base is Ful-Thane and it turns out that the Nason Select Clear activator (still liquid) is suitable for use with Ful-Base; not sure about it's compatibility with Ful-Thane but I have almost none of that. It also turns out that I can use any combination of the Nason & PPG primers (Full Poxy & PPG DP48LF), colors/bases and clears (Select Clear and PPG DCU2002) that I have. That's not going to be news to those of you who know your way around these products but it was to me. The net result is that between Nason and PPG I have maybe 8 frames worth of epoxy primer & clear systems ready to go, and 4 frames worth of base that can use the Select Clear activator. I won't have to replace primers, base and several activators only to have most of them solidify in the can. As I use up my current stock I'll standardize on whatever combination of these products loses the least to solidification. Right now that looks like either primer, Nason Ful-Base and Nason Select Clear.

In the mean time I'll put the Rusto test piece into the attic and check it's hardness periodically. If it gets tough enough after a while then I'll have something to think about.

Thanks for all the feedback, on and off list.

[Jim Adney]

On 13 Jan 2018 at 10:22, John Clay wrote:

> In the mean time I'll put the Rusto test piece into the attic and check
> it's hardness periodically. If it gets tough enough after a while then
> I'll have something to think about.

You could also speed up the cure by putting it in an oven at something
between 175 and 225 F. 20-30 minutes at high temp will emulate years of
room temp cure.

--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jad...@vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************

[David Parsons]

Rustoleum takes a long time to cure.  I managed to scrape a big swath of paint from the BB of my latest frame when I was polishing it before putting the topcoat on, but my previous frame became a lot less nick-prone after parking it in my back porch for a month and change.

[John Clay]

Misspoke: Nearly all of my base is Ful-Base, not Ful-Thane. Select Clear activator works with Ful-Base.

Baking the Rusto test is a good idea. I'll see how it goes, but outside in a toaster oven.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 1:22:11 PM UTC-5, John Clay wrote:

After all of that thrashing about..........Nearly all of my base is Ful-Thane

[omar-...@cox.net]

Hi John--

I have been following your discussion for a while.  I have always painted Imron since 1988.  A few years ago Dupont stopped making it.  We could get it for a while, then it was gone.  I can still get chemicals, so I can still use my old stock.  However, if I need a color that I do not have, I needed to find a substitute.  I am now using a PPG product called Essentials.  It is a single stage polyurethane, just like Imron.  There was a learning curve with it, but once I got the hang of it, it has worked very well.  High gloss and super tough.  Cures in a couple of hours to full hard.  They make an activator that cures in under an hour.  The paint is much less expensive than Imron was and the chemicals are less too.  And it can be bought in pints, so less investment per color.  PPG has over 3000 stock colors with this paint, including 4 different Celeste versions, just to give some perspective.  If you have a PPG store in your area, you may want to give them a chance to show you this product.  Ask to see the color chart “suitcase”.

Just an FYI.

Omar Khiel

Oasis Custom Cycles LLC

 

From: John Clay

Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:22 AM

To: Framebuilders

Subject: [Frame] Re: Paint: Changing from automotive to Rustoleum & Majic alkyd oils

 

After all of that thrashing about, I've come full circle, and without painting a frame. Recent scratch testing of my Rustoleum painted test piece was disappointing. It hasn't cured for a terribly long time but I didn't expect to be able to scratch down to the primer with a fingernail. I tried that on a several frames I painted with Nason (one Ful-Base & one Ful-Thane) & one PPG (Global Refinishing) and it felt like I was trying scratch glass; it just wasn't going to happen. In fairness, the cure times are years vs. a few weeks but that was enough to get me to reevaluate. I took another look at my auto paint stock, checked some technical details and realized that I don't need to get any more activator to make use of 90% of it. In addition, the primers and bases mixed up OK too; I thought they had become unusable but, happily, it appears not.

 

Some of the technical details I found, which may be useful to others: Nearly all of my base is Ful-Thane and it turns out that the Nason Select Clear activator (still liquid) is suitable for use with Ful-Base; not sure about it's compatibility with Ful-Thane but I have almost none of that. It also turns out that I can use any combination of the Nason & PPG primers (Full Poxy & PPG DP48LF), colors/bases and clears (Select Clear and PPG DCU2002) that I have. That's not going to be news to those of you who know your way around these products but it was to me. The net result is that between Nason and PPG I have maybe 8 frames worth of epoxy primer & clear systems ready to go, and 4 frames worth of base that can use the Select Clear activator. I won't have to replace primers, base and several activators only to have most of them solidify in the can. As I use up my current stock I'll standardize on whatever combination of these products loses the least to solidification. Right now that looks like either primer, Nason Ful-Base and Nason Select Clear.

 

In the mean time I'll put the Rusto test piece into the attic and check it's hardness periodically. If it gets tough enough after a while then I'll have something to think about.

 

Thanks for all the feedback, on and off list.

 

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
 
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
 
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

framebuilder...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilder...@googlegroups.com.

[John Clay]

Thanks Omar. That's interesting. I'll check it out. A modern (chemistry wise), less expensive, glossy, tough and durable single stage paint that doesn't require activator is very appealing. That ticks all the boxes. What sort of primer do you use with it? I'm guessing you use sticky back decals on top of it, or maybe a spray mask?

John

framebuilders+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilders+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

John

[John Clay]

That didn't cure it...it melted it!

[Jim Adney]

On 14 Jan 2018 at 7:39, John Clay wrote:

> That didn't cure it...it melted it!

Ouch! How hot did it get?

[John Clay]

It was a test piece and it produced useful information. No problem. I set the toaster over at just under 200. I don't have a thermometer though. Preheated it before inserting the tube which was wrapped  in crinkled tinfoil to guard against temp spikes as the element cycled on/off. I'll try it on the minimum temp called "warm". I'm guessing that would be closer to 150F. Nothing to lose. All that said: The activated, clear coated portion didn't seem any tougher to the fingernail test (couple of hours after removal from the oven). The un-activated dab of orange did seem tougher though.

As for frames: For most of the year my shop attic is uncomfortably warm. Its no fun being up there. 130F ish? I'll go with that for all my painting (regardless of paint type) but when I do I'll include a cheap thermometer so I can get some quantitative data on daytime temps. Even the automotive stuff I have is fragile for a while...weeks, a month maybe, and a modest temp increase has to speed the cure. Heretofore I put them in the sun for a day or two.

Unless I change my mind in the next 24 hours I think I'll go ahead and shoot the current frame in Rusto orange; I don't feel like stripping the Rusto primer in order to go with the polyurethane and I'm still interested in seeing what happens, how it holds up in field use. I can shoot it, put it in the attic for a few weeks and go from there.  

[Doug Fattic]

I applaud John’s efforts to find a way to paint his bicycle frames himself.  However if I wasn’t a professional bicycle frame painter that is not what I would do.  There is a way that professional catalyzed paint (meaning paint that hardens by chemical action because an activator is added just prior to painting) can be put into rattle can spray cans. This product is called Spray Max in the US and can be purchased where automobile paints are sold.  The jobber puts whatever paint you choose (that he has in stock) into a Spray Max spray can that has 2 compartments, 1 for the paint and the other for the activator.  When it is time to paint, the protector of the nozzle is taken off and pushed into a pin in the bottom that lets the 2 parts of the paint mix and start to activate.  The spray nozzles on Spray Max paint cans are supposed to be superior to typical rattle can nozzles.  

To do an amateur paint job the way I would want (remember I am used to making a frame look great if I may say so myself without the appropriate modesty) without all my professional equipment, I would get 3 cans of Spray Max: a primer, a color and a clear.  House of Kolor has very nice primers that come in primary colors (blue, yellow and red + black, white and gray).  When I paint a frame I like to mix the primer colors to kind of match the top color.  Of course I don’t know if a local auto paint store will mix primer colors or not.  It is a refinement and not a basic need.  

Just to put liquid paint costs into perspective, I figure mine by adding up what I have spent over a year and divide that number by how many paint jobs I have done in the same amount of time.  This comes out to be about $125 per frame not including general shop overhead expenses.  This figure reflects buying special colors instead of using whatever is left over in stock.  

Once the primers coats have been applied and allowed to dry, the paint is sanded in preparation for the color coats.  After the color coats the clears can be put on.  The timing and number of color and clear coats is beyond the scope of this discussion.  One of my frame building class students painted the frame he made in class with Spray Max cans and it turned out well.  Also there was a subject thread on the Paceline Forum (formerly Serotta Forum) about doing amateur paint jobs this way.  The posters were pleased with their results.  

Doug Fattic

Niles, Michigan   

[David Porter]

Doug, et al.,

 I've used the Spray Max Urethane Primer/sealer for many years. In my opinion a primer of some sort should always be used. Painting directly to bare metal is a losing proposition. I'm getting ahead of my self, here, just wanted to say that the Spray Max nozzles are the weak point. Too wide a fan for skinny bike tubes, much product is lost, but still sufficient for two coats for a cost of around $25 bucks. Dave

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
 
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
 
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

framebuilder...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilder...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 505-352-1378 Go HERE: my world www.porterbikes.com/

[John Clay]

I goofed and posted this in the blasting cabinet thread. It belongs here. Sorry for the repeat.

I decided to go ahead with the Rustoleum for the current frame. I shot it today and it was a disaster (100% pilot error). The finished paint job is lousy but it was a useful learning experience that was best done with inexpensive materials!

Heretofore I've always done the whole job (and using urethanes) in one day so there's never been any concern with dust accumulating on the frame or the need for wipe downs. This frame was primed about a week ago so I thought wiping it down made sense. I used paper towels (mistake #1) dampened with mineral spirits and thinned the paint with the same, except I'd picked up the paint thinner can (mistake #2). I discovered that after mixing the paint. I tossed it, remixed and re-wiped (another paper towel), this time with real mineral spirits. While shooting the fork I noticed that it looked terrible so I didn't shoot the frame. The paint seemed to be acting funny too, there was no gloss and little nibs of something were all over the place.

After looking at the primed-only frame I realized that the nibs were paper towel lint. I won't make that mistake again. Tack cloths or compressed air.....or do it all on the same day.

I don't know if the residual paint thinner from the primer wipe-down caused any problems but it didn't seem to mix into the paint easily in the few moments of mixing before I realized my mistake. Anybody have ideas on that?

The good news is that mixing Kubota Orange and Sunburst Yellow at anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 yielded a nice range of oranges. I ended up at 2:1 which in retrospect was a bit too far. 1.5:1 or even a little less is probably closer to where I want to be.

But I goofed so now I get to re-prep the frame and do it all over. Minor hassle.

Re Doug's comments: I've painted about a dozen frames and until this Rusto experiment all were done with automotive urethanes. Most were base/clear but a couple were single stage; Dupont Nason and PPG Global Refinishing System. I didn't find the painting to be difficult; just do a little research on how to paint and follow the tech sheet instructions wrt prep, mixing, re-coat windows, etc. I'm extremely happy with the results. There are some informative hotrod/automotive painting usegroups where any painting newbie can get info wrt anything from the basics to the finer points of spraying.  

I paint in the carport after using a leaf blower to debride it (floor and ceiling), then a light mist of water over about a 20' radius as a final dust control step. The frame prep is the difficult part in that it takes a lot of elbow grease. Happily I have a small, cheap but quite effective pressure pot sand blaster. My only issue with it is that it's a mess and inconvenient (hence the possibility of a homebuilt blasting cab) but one has to keep that in context. I'm in good shape.

Today's Rustoleum disaster is nothing but a speed bump, a rookie mistake (paper towels) and a boneheaded goof-up (grabbing a can without confirming the label). A root cause analysis would actually start with the weather a week ago; I attempted a paint job without an adequate weather window and had to pause after the primer. Had I been able to continue I'd have not wiped the primer down (and so no lint on the primed surfaces) and wouldn't have picked up the paint thinner can (cause it was still in the shed, where it belonged, the mineral spirits being in the shop, by the paint). But then I'd have missed this lesson, only to learn it some other day and probably on expensive paint, not $15/quart Rusto. As an aside, the Rusto can be thinned to spray well (on my test pieces and another guy on VS), levels well and is as glossy as any single stage automotive paint I've seen. You can clear it too; don't know if I will though. I assume that it isn't as durable or fade resistant as urethanes but these are bicycles, not super sonic aircraft and not parked in the Miami sun for a decade. I have a certain attraction to being able to make a frame look good with inexpensive paint. While I may (or may not) end up abandoning the Rusto and revert to the urethanes this will be an interesting experiment.

As to the rattle cans that can be activated: That sounds like a very neat option for folks w/o spray equipment. That said I have to say that my Astro Pneumatic Sata Minijet clone is superbe. I've seen it and it's cousins in a couple of pretty hi-zoots custom paint shops, too.   

[John Clay]

Quick sanding job and respray. Good results. Added a bit more yellow; I like it. Glossier than the fuzzy photo suggests.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/39021162004/in/dateposted-public/

John

[John Clay]

Frame: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/24914492707/in/dateposted-public/

Got rid of the nibs, pretty glossy, a couple of sags. Another coat tomorrow; might sand out the sags first. Not even $5 in paint on the frame & fork! That leaves a lot of $ for tubes, lugs and such.

Mineral spirits thinned, no activator. It'll be attic cured.

[John Clay]

I sanded the paint sags, added catalyst to the remaining paint and put the last coat on the frame and fork. The photos don't really show it well but it's quite glossy; much better than yesterday's results. I don't know if thats down to improved technique, the reduction in gun pressure (I'm having pressure regulator problems but today I managed to get it down to about 40 psi), addition of catalyst or some combination. I hope that the catalyst in this coat will assist the cure of the previous coat; folks have noted that effect on some of the hot-rod painting forums I've visited so I thought I might as well try it.

I put a screw eye into the carport ceiling and hung the frame by a rope with a hook through the seat post binder ears. Having the frame right side up and the ability to manipulate it was a huge improvement over clamping a broomstick vertically in my vise and slipping the seat tube over it.

Two new photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/39091380344/in/dateposted-public/

[Jon Norstog]

John, de4pending on what gun you are using, you may find that 20-25 psi will get more of the paint on the frame, plus give you a better, more even coat.  Turn down the volume of paint if you do this.

Good luck!

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Framebuilders" group.
 
Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
 
To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

framebuilders+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Framebuilders" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to framebuilders+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[John Clay]

Thanks Jon.

25 will work better. I'll have to repair or replace my pressure control regulator. It's been giving me problems.

John.

[John Clay]

Four or five hours at around 95 - 105f in the trash can oven and it seems tough enough for assembly. I guess I'll find out.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/39927932741/in/dateposted-public/

[John Clay]

Following up on my Rustoleum experiment, the good news is that CitriStrip paint remover will take alkyd oil paint off quickly and easily. That should summarize the verdict on my experiment, efficiently.

Alkyd oils are too fragile. You can make them look good but, at least in my experience with two frames, the paint is just too easy to damage and then you get sweat dripping onto the top tube and rust. Even when undamaged the paint didn't seem very impervious to salt sweat. I got the beginnings of little rust spots, on both frames, in places that didn't appear damaged or defective. The experiment is over and I'm going back to automotive urethanes with epoxy primer. So, now I have two strip and re-paints to do. I may end up farming paint out but I'll use up some of the material I have on one frame to see how I feel about it.

Now I've got to find somebody that can use some cans of yellow, red and orange Rustoleum.

John Clay

Tallahassee, FL

[good friend]

I'm curious if you heated-set your rustoleum ??
   Put it in the oven or under a heat-gun for a bit right after application and it works better...
Not sure if even that would be up to good standard, the only bike I had with that treatment got stolen...
  It was a small section over a retro-fit add-on that Brian Bayliss did, and his rustoleum and oven.
        Thomas Seaman:  noMadic
Moscow, Idaho  :::    u.s. of A.

On 8/21/19 5:26 PM, John Clay wrote:

Following up on my Rustoleum experiment, the good news is that CitriStrip paint remover will take alkyd oil paint off quickly and easily. That should summarize the verdict on my experiment, efficiently.

Alkyd oils are too fragile. You can make them look good but, at least in my experience with two frames, the paint is just too easy to damage and then you get sweat dripping onto the top tube and rust. Even when undamaged the paint didn't seem very impervious to salt sweat. I got the beginnings of little rust spots, on both frames, in places that didn't appear damaged or defective. The experiment is over and I'm going back to automotive urethanes with epoxy primer. So, now I have two strip and re-paints to do. I may end up farming paint out but I'll use up some of the material I have on one frame to see how I feel about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm changing to Rustoleum and Majic alkyd oil paint for my frames.

[John Clay]

I put it in a hot Florida attic for a couple of days. Frame prep was 80 grit on the tubes/in the field and sand blasting on the fiddly bits. Blow dried with compressed air and then shot with Rustoleum Clean Metal Primer followed by the color coats. Of the two frames I painted with Rustoleum, both developed the beginnings of rust (from sweat) on the top tubes in areas that hadn't been nicked or physically damaged. That alone would cork it for me but the Rusto is much easier to chip/damage than the urethanes. I wish it had worked out but no more old tech paint for me. I had to find out for myself.

I also discovered that the CitriStrip will remove automotive urethanes if left on overnight (with oil it takes about an hour or two). I did a test patch on an older frame that I shot with Nason FulPoxy primer and their base/clear products it removed the clear, color and epoxy primer decently. 

John Clay

Tallahassee, Florida