I would suggest a set that works for modern 29ers. Most everything else available already, but I think there is some desire for lugged 29ers. The lugs just aren't made. Possibly even head lugs to fit a 44mm head tube. I think there is probably more of an untapped market for those than anything else.
E
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All good ideas so far Doug, but like you I probably have issues with non-racing geometries nowadays more than anything. Probably in order of preference.
1. A O.S. lug set with 1.125 steerer. Not too many of those and although I see nothing wrong with 1’’ steerer you would think you were serving them a dish of haggis when you bring it up.
2. A BB without ports for the chainstays. That way we could lug the front triangle and then just braze or weld the CS’s on so that we could accommodate wide tires.
3. MTB lugs would be cool but the MTB guys are like herding cats and I don’t think they could agree on what angles would be the “right angles” but maybe a lug set with a heavy slop to the TT or being able to buy a combination of lugs that would allow it (like HJ does with the standard diamters)
4. Modern lugset with provision for 44mm HT although, like the 1’’ steerer I only think this think is a big heavy tank of a piece on a steel bike, but it is what it is and I believe it will become the prominent standard.
Dave Bohm
P.S. John, you can always just cut off the upper portion of the lug if you don’t want it. It is convenient though to have that extension to get the height some people need.
From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:frameb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Norstog
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 6:58 AM
To: Eric Doswell
Cc: Framebuilders
Subject: Re: [Frame] what lugs would you buy if you could?
Doug,
What I would like to see is a well-proportioned upper headtube lug. Lose that awkward-looking high-rise spigot that mars so many US-designed lugsets these days. Nitto makes a stem with a longer stem section, or you can use a threadless fork to get the bars up where you want them.
jn
"Thursday"
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Eric Doswell <trai...@gmail.com> wrote:
All good ideas so far Doug, but like you I probably have issues with non-racing geometries nowadays more than anything. Probably in order of preference.
1. A O.S. lug set with 1.125 steerer. Not too many of those and although I see nothing wrong with 1’’ steerer you would think you were serving them a dish of haggis when you bring it up.
2. A BB without ports for the chainstays. That way we could lug the front triangle and then just braze or weld the CS’s on so that we could accommodate wide tires.
3. MTB lugs would be cool but the MTB guys are like herding cats and I don’t think they could agree on what angles would be the “right angles” but maybe a lug set with a heavy slop to the TT or being able to buy a combination of lugs that would allow it (like HJ does with the standard diamters)
I'm going to vote differently than everyone else. There are enough OS lugsets for 1.125" steerers in the world, aren't there?
I'd like a standard size (1" top tube, 1.125" downtube, 1" headtube) lugset for a 5-7 degree sloping top tube. Basically a standard size tubing "slant 6".
I have nothing against 1.125" steerers, they just look silly on bikes with 1" top tubes. Look at any modern Rawland frame for an example. I also don't have anything against OS, but I prefer the ride of 9/6/9 and 8/5/8 standard diameter 4130 compared to OS, and feel like as an amateur builder that I should be using non-heat-treated tubing instead of super thin stuff that makes OS ride decently.
Tom and others who want a sloping top tube and 1.125" steerer can buy these:
I'm finishing up a frame with them now and they seem pretty nice to me. However it is my first lugged frame, the rest have been fillet.
alex
Also, I would like a fork crown for 1 1/8" steerer with a 7degree offset and 45-50mm of tire clearance. I'd actually buy quite a few of those.
E
Dear santa:
For christmas I would like an exact copy of alex singer lugs in 28.6/28.6/31.8/36 with 3° of tt slope and a lower ht/dt angle suitable for a 395mm fork.
BB shell too, please. I have been good this year.
Yours,
Michael
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Yeah, those are a tad wide for my taste.
E
Is this what you are looking for or do you not want one that wide?Daniel
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/NOVA-CYCLO-X-FORK-CROWN-FULL-SLOPE-28.6-7-OFFSET.html
Oh oh oh also!
MAX lugs that aren't hideous.
Thanks santa!
-michael
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Alex, there are practically no OS and 1.125 steerer. Lots of O.O.S or 1.3/8th DT with 1.125 but most 1.250 DT/1.125TT lug sets are 1’’ steerers. I only know of one or two sets as I described (just checked, Ceeway has two).
If we are being honest, I like the idea of a sloper for 1’’ but how many would they sell. 50 sets on planet earth? I am not being facetious. Anyone still building that retro can make that happen anyways by making a lug or going lugless/ bilam. I just don’t see how that could be profitable for Nikko and really that is what it is all about.
Dave Bohm
P.S. The slant six uses O.O.S tubing and is very stiff. It’s a race bike lug set/mtb/29nr maybe but something in what is really “standard” tubing today would be nice. The mini-six is very nice but then again its 1’’ steerer, which I like but as I said before makes people cringe in horror as they contemplate how many stems they may not be able to buy on cyber Monday.
From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:frameb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Wetmore
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:57 AM
To: Doug Fattic; frameb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Frame] what lugs would you buy if you could?
I'm going to vote differently than everyone else. There are enough OS lugsets for 1.125" steerers in the world, aren't there?
I'd like a standard size (1" top tube, 1.125" downtube, 1" headtube) lugset for a 5-7 degree sloping top tube. Basically a standard size tubing "slant 6".
I have nothing against 1.125" steerers, they just look silly on bikes with 1" top tubes. Look at any modern Rawland frame for an example. I also don't have anything against OS, but I prefer the ride of 9/6/9 and 8/5/8 standard diameter 4130 compared to OS, and feel like as an amateur builder that I should be using non-heat-treated tubing instead of super thin stuff that makes OS ride decently.
Tom and others who want a sloping top tube and 1.125" steerer can buy these:
I'm finishing up a frame with them now and they seem pretty nice to me. However it is my first lugged frame, the rest have been fillet.
alex
From: frameb...@googlegroups.com <frameb...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Doug Fattic <fatticb...@qtm.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:48 PM
To: frameb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Frame] what lugs would you buy if you could?
Last week I attended the Fabtech show in Chicago. It included a combination of industries like welding, metal forming, painting, etc. In attendance was the Nikko company that used to make bicycle lugs and bottom bracket shells. Their primary business is bulge formed metal fabrication of all kinds for any industry. They were the ones that provided Trek with lugs back in the 70's. Bulge formed lugs don't have welded seams. A few years ago I talked them into doing blank and spear point lugs which I now sell to make money for our Ukraine Bicycle Project. They are still for sale so don't hesitate to get some! Before that they hadn't made bicycle frame materials in years. He asked me what kind of lugs would current American builders want to buy? So I'm passing his question on to you.
--
Eric Doswell wrote:
I would like a fork crown for 1 1/8" steerer with a 7degree offset and 45-50mm of tire clearance. I'd actually buy quite a few of those.
Remember, Nikko is a company that does bulge-forming. Not sure a crown made that way would be suitable for fancy artisan bikes.
Also to the person who asked for integral cable housing stops: not sure that can be done with bulge-forming. Maybe theoretically possible but quadrupling the cost of the lug? They could make them as a separate piece and copper-braze them on (copper so they don’t melt off during later lug brazing operations), but I don’t think Nikko does that in-house. Sounds like a perfect job for the framebuilder to do.
Unless the thread has just drifted away from Nikko into general wish-list, in which case my apologies, carry on.
Mark Bulgier
Seattle
NOV_LUGS_SLNT_SIX | LUGS ROAD OS 36MM HT FOR SLOPED TOPTUBE SLANT SIX OS | $51.45 | 1 | $51.45 |
David Bohm wrote:
If we are being honest, I like the idea of a sloper for 1’’ but how many would they sell. 50 sets on planet earth? I am not being facetious. Anyone still building that retro can make that happen anyways by making a lug or going lugless/ bilam. I just don’t see how that could be profitable for Nikko and really that is what it is all about.
True, but Alex’s request would have one advantage to Nikko, that being they’re already set up to make lugs just like what Alex asked for, only in slightly different angles. Although it could well be that making new dies for a new angle in 1” top tube is just as expensive for them as making a whole new lugset in oversized. I’m just hoping that some of their existing tooling for 1” lugs would carry over.
Mark Bulgier
Seattle
"Remember, Nikko is a company that does bulge-forming. "
I did not know that. I assumed castings, my bad:)
E