Aluminum welding in the Providence, RI, area

[velo59]

I am rebuilding my son's Trek commuter bike.  I have an aluminum kickstand plate but I cannot find anyone locally with the equipment and expertise to do this job.

Does anyone know a shop in the Providence, RI, area who are able and willing to do this job?

Jason Cloutier
Pawtucket, RI

[Jon Doyle]

Cantabrigian Mechanics near Boston does aluminum work.

Jon

Watertown, MA

[Steve Carter]

Check Chapman Cycles too. He is in Providence/Pawtucket I think. He might do aluminum work.

Steve Carter

[Ethan Labowitz]

Cantabrigian is, if anything, over-qualified. And they may be too busy. I used to live near them. I can TIG aluminum but I'd probably take something like to them if they had the time and I had the money. They have a TIG welder with a lot more experience than I...like several decades.

E

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[Rick Jones]

Also something to bear in mind is that when welded the heat effected zone will be quite annealed and  would require post weld  heat treatment to bring it back (or close depending on alloy) to it original strength. Might not be worth it. -Rick

Rick Jones
Road Runners Bicycles
Glen Cove, NY
Shop:516-671-8280
Cell:516-510-2664
www.roadrunnersbicycles.com
www.rickjonesbicycles.com
 

 

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Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:03:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [Frame] Re: Aluminum welding in the Providence, RI, area
From: elab...@gmail.com
To: steve....@gmail.com
CC: frameb...@googlegroups.com

[Ethan Labowitz]

Good point. Re-heat-treating adds further cost, especially if it requires a repaint, too.

[Mark Bulgier]

I'd probably epoxy it, with some (two or four) riv-nuts. The joint shape, flat plate to cylinder, isn't ideal for a glue joint, but with a toughened epoxy and proper metal prep before gluing, should be worth a try. I forget what proper metal prep means with epoxy to aluminum, look it up, probably an acid etch. 

Four riv-nuts, 5mm (or #10x32) might even be strong enough by themselves but the epoxy adds safety margin. And the bolts ensure that the joint stays put until the epoxy cures. 

If the wall thickness is adequate, you could just tap the tube wall rather than use riv-nuts. In fact I'd probably try that first. Weaker threads, but smaller holes drilled = stronger chainstays. Possibly a place for a fatigue crack to start, but it's got to be way stronger than welding and not heat-treating. 

Probably obvious, but you'd countersink the ks plate and use flat head screws so the heads aren't intruding on the ks. 

[M-gineering]

On 3/19/2015 7:30 PM, Mark Bulgier wrote:
> I'd probably epoxy it, with some (two or four) riv-nuts. The joint
> shape, flat plate to cylinder, isn't ideal for a glue joint, but with a
> toughened epoxy and proper metal prep before gluing, should be worth a
> try. I forget what proper metal prep means with epoxy to aluminum, look
> it up, probably an acid etch.

drilling holes, welding, it's not going to make the frame more reliable.
I'd toss the kick stand plate idea and get a kickstand which bolts to
the chain and seatstay. These work good enough and the parked bike will
be more stable.

If you want light duty and if you run an axternal bearing BB, there is
also a kickstand out there which clamps to the LH bearing cup

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mvg

Marten Gerritsen
Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[velo59]

Thanks to all.

I know Brian Chapman.  We saw each other at the Shinicho Konno lecture at RI School of Design last evening.  Brian only works in steel.

The Trek frame is 7000 series aluminum, so no heat treatment needed post-weld.

I tried to mechanically attach the kickstand plate, but the chain stays right behind the BB shell are very thin.  I also tried the alumibraze from Cheap Chinese Tools (Harbor Freight) and that didn't have any strength.  The kickstand plate tore right off.  The thin stays also make me nervous about clamping a kickstand in place.

There is a shop near me who do repairs on fuel oil tanker trucks.  Since those have aluminum tanks, I'll try to get to them while they're open.  Trouble is that their schedule and mine do not overlap.

Jason Cloutier
Pawtucket, RI

[Alistair Spence]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 2:06 PM, 'velo59' via Framebuilders <frameb...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

There is a shop near me who do repairs on fuel oil tanker trucks.  Since those have aluminum tanks, I'll try to get to them while they're open.  Trouble is that their schedule and mine do not overlap.

If the stays are that thin I'd be very hesitant to let someone who normally welds on oil tanker trucks do this job. Not saying they're not good welders, but bike tubing is quite different to what they'll be used to. You probably don't want them experimenting on your bike.

What about calling up Frank (The Welder) Wadelton, up in Vermont and see if he would do it?

http://www.frankthewelder.com/

Probably a couple/three hours drive for you. Frank has to be one of the most experienced aluminium bike welders in  the country, I would think.

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.

[Ethan Labowitz]

As usual, Alistair makes a good point.

I had a short-term gig maybe 10 years ago doing a bunch of mitering and other prep work for a company that wanted a prototype steel frame made. The deal was that they had this amazing TIG guy, so I was to just get the tubes ready for him, and he'd take care of the rest.
This guy was pretty slick. I saw him do a lot of nice looking welds while up on a ladder, welding 1/8" aluminum, stainless, whatever. Mostly architectural stuff.
I did my thing, got everything all mitered, handed the frame to him. Then the cursing started. He blew a bunch of holes in the tubes right away.
Lesson learned: a good TIG welder isn't necessarily a good *bike frame* TIG welder. We operate at or near the margins of the broader welding industry.

Ethan
Appleton, WI, where all of the welding machines in this story were made

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[Rick Jones]

While 7000 does not need heat treatment per say it does need to be "aged" which mean 4-500 degrees for 9ish hours unless you don't plan on riding the bike for a few years. 

Rick Jones mobile 

Rickjonesbicycles.com

Roadrunnersbicycles.com