FOR SALE - FRAME JIG

[Gaylord Rodeman]

I have 1 extra frame jig for sale out of a run I made.  The main frame is 80/20 heavy extrusion.  All cones and dummy axles are stainless.  All aluminum parts are hard anodized and degree numbers milled in after anodize for contrast.  Jig includes powder coated stand with locking casters and wrinkle black powder coat.  All non-stainless steel parts are nickel plated.  Jig includes 3 dummy axles as well.  Looking to get 3500.00 O.B.O,

Email questions to smili...@hotmail.com

[Wissahickon Cyclery]

Do you find it OK to make and then SELL something that was clearly not your design?  That is Gary Helfrich's Arctos jig.  Now being sold by Oscar with permission from Gary.  I get that it is an often stolen design but none of those people have turned around to sell the item for profit.

-Drew

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Gaylord Rodeman <gaylord...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have 1 extra frame jig for sale out of a run I made.  The main frame is 80/20 heavy extrusion.  All cones and dummy axles are stainless.  All aluminum parts are hard anodized and degree numbers milled in after anodize for contrast.  Jig includes powder coated stand with locking casters and wrinkle black powder coat.  All non-stainless steel parts are nickel plated.  Jig includes 3 dummy axles as well.  Looking to get 3500.00 O.B.O,

Email questions to smili...@hotmail.com

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Drew Guldalian

D.B.A. Engin Cycles
Wissahickon Cyclery
7837 Germantown Ave Phila,PA 19118
www.wiss-cycles.com
www.engincycles.com

[Alistair Spence]

Gaylord, not to pile on here but I think that your FS post does raise some ethical questions and issues. From what I can tell, this is his first post to the list, so for it to be commercial in nature is a bit cheeky imo. Perhaps an intro and some background would have been nice.

The jig pictured is obviously an Arctos clone, the jig originally conceived by Ron Sutphin and Gary Helfrich, and realized as a design by Gary. Speaking as someone who built a home brew jig that was heavily influenced by the Arctos design (ie. I copied it as closely as my basic machining skills and tools allowed me to) it seems like bad form to be selling a jig whose design was copied down to very specific details from someone elses product, a product that is still in production. Otoh, you did do what appears to be a bang up duplication job, so there is that.

Who are you (see above)? What are your credentials, and how do they relate to your ability to fabricate an accurate and repeatable frame jig? The price of your jig is similar to those currently commercially available with established pedigrees for workmanship and accuracy. Looking at the pics of your jig, it seems that you work in a well equipped shop. Googling around, it appears that you are an instructor at a technical school, so presumably the jig is accurately made, but how about some more info on that?

Thanks,

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.

[Gaylord Rodeman]

I am going to start off by apologizing for a poorly written post.  I started off two years ago wanting to build my self a quality jig.  I had been using the Artos jig at my school where we taught frame building and I liked it a lot, so it was the one I wanted to clone.  Shortly after quitting teaching and moving to work for a professional motorsports team I met another fabricator at my shop who liked to build bikes too, so we got together, combined skills and set off to make ourselves jigs.  Making 3 didn't cost a whole lot more than making 2 at that point, so we made 1 extra with the intent of re-cooping monetary costs only.  There is only the one extra jig for sale, and if it brings a lot of negative feelings, I will just keep it.  I don't intend to produce the jig or ever even release the drawings we made.  I was just trying to fund the fixtures for my buddy and I.  The time invested in building the jigs far outweighs the cost of material, and hind sight being what it is, Oscars jigs are a deal at full retail price.  If I had it all to do over again, I would have worked overtime at the race shop and just bought one of his.  That being said, figuring out how to re-create the jig and do a good job of it was a challenge and I enjoyed the challenge.

As far as the quality of the jig and my qualifications for building it.....I have been fabricating and machining for 20 years.  I have a masters in education and I taught fabrication and machine tool for 7 years before leaving to be a professional motorsports fabricator.  All parts were drawn and assembled in solid works and a combination of manual and CNC milling was used in the creation of the jigs.  All material was surfaced to ensure parallel surfaces.  I used stainless for the locating cones, dummy axles and bottom bracket assembly to resist corrosion since I live in the rust belt now.  I gusseted the bottom bracket assembly for increased rigidity and upped the size of some of the hardware over the original design.  All aluminum parts received a hard coat anodize for longevity and all steel parts that were not stainless were nickel plated for corrosion protection.  The stands use a 3 leg design for stability on uneven surfaces and the casters lock rotation and direction.  The stands are powder coated with a wrinkle black.  As you can see from the pictures and the description, there was a lot of time and money invested in building these.  

All that being said, yes it is a clone of the Arctos,  I am not taking credit for its design and I am NOT producing them.  I just have an extra that I would like to sell, but if it is pushing the ethical  boundaries too far I will just keep it and have an extra jig to build frames on.  Sorry for all of the confusion on my hasty previous post.

[Alistair Spence]

Gaylord,

nice post. I can relate to a lot of what you wrote, regarding the decision to buy Vs. make a jig. In the end, I think there is a lot to be learned in making your own, even though it is a time consuming and expensive route. I believe it is a rite of passage, and well worth having a go at, at least once.

From what you've written, it's clear that you've got quite the skillset, one that overlaps nicely with building bicycles. Welcome to the list. I for one look forward to you sharing your knowledge here, and maybe on some of the other framebuilding forums around the net too.

As to the question of selling your jig, maybe it might be a good idea to reach out to Oscar, http://www.simplebicycleco.com/ and let him know your intentions. Just a suggestion.

Best,

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.