Stainless grades

[Matt Wilkinson]

Hello list,

 

I was just wondering if anyone could recommend a "minimum grade" of stainless to be used unpainted on a frame (non-structural) in all conditions?  eg 304, 316, 321.  I've ordered some fillet pro already.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Matt Wilkinson

Lower Clapton, London, UK

[Arthur Marks]

Type 304 is a good all around choice. Type 316 has slightly better
pitting resistance in certain acids (irrelevant here) and "dilute
chloride solutions*." If you foresee much winter use in locations
near ocean water or areas that use salt to clear the roadways, you may
find the added cost of 316 worthwhile. The differentiation of Type
321 is in the addition of titanium, which is only beneficial with
regard to high-temperature exposure well outside the range subjected
to a bicycle frame. It has no benefits here to my knowledge.
-Arthur

*Metals Handbook, 2nd Ed. ASM International, p.366

[Frank Wadelton]

304/308 is inexpensive, great corrosion resistance etc,.

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[Alex Wetmore]

316 has twice the yield strength of 304.  I know that you said it is non-structural, but this might be something to be aware of.  It would make me choose 316 in rack building applications over 304.  Racks are structural of course, but also one of the few places where I've personally brazed stainless.

alex

---

From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [frameb...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Frank Wadelton [frankw...@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:58 AM
To: Matt Wilkinson; frameb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Frame] Stainless grades

[Matt Wilkinson]

Thanks everyone,

 

To clarify, I'm thinking of making a 32mm OD stainless band from tubing to slip over the 28.6mm seat tube.  I think 1 1/4 16swg tube  is my best bet at 1.63mm wall..? 

I'd carve small lug-style points to reduce stress and make it look more attractive. I'd plan to attach a 32mm band-on front derailleur here, as my frame design necessitates a removable derailleur for a dual-use bike.  The stainless band would eradicate paint damage by the derailleur band, and would hopefully compliment the lugged frame aesthetically.

The bike would be used in London and as such could be exposed to a lot of road salt in that area.

 

This is still an early idea, so any help of tips are greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Matt

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:22 AM, wade barocsi <scru...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Matt,

Is this stainless for decorative enhancements?  If so 304 would be
fine, and it is easily available.
304 isn't very strong, it probably isn't the best choice for
structural areas, unless it is fairly thick.
304 is easy to work with, and can be carved with decorations, shapes and images.

Fillet Pro is fairly thick, and is generally used for fillets, and
structural uses.  It is fairly thick, so is will not easily leave a
crisp shoreline.  If you need a crisp shoreline, you might try 56Pro
in those areas.  Our stainless light flux would be the best choice for
either alloy on stainless.

Feel free to email, or call me directly if you have any questions.

Thank You for choosing our products,

Wade Barocsi
Cycle Design
(203) 654-6230

[pruckelshaus]

Given the difficulty in finding 28.6 clamp FD's of late, I've thought of doing the same thing, but was concerned about introducing any new stresses in the seat tube.  Let us know how it works out.

Pete

[dave bohm]

A braze on front mech (no clamp, stainless e-Ritchie variety) will accomplish the same thing without all the fuss.   It will be visible when the derailleur is removed but only you will notice.   If you choose the band 304 will work fine for this as it is inexpensive and corrosion resistant but I am getting old….. IMHO creating a problem to create a solution….

 

Dave Bohm 

 

---

From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:frameb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Wilkinson
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:08 AM
To: frameb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Frame] Stainless grades

 

Thanks everyone,

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[Dean Langley]

304L, the L is for low carbon. It's mostly for weldability but is a little more corrosion resistant. Also you can look up material properties online at matweb.

Dean

dave bohm <dave...@cox.net> wrote:

>A braze on front mech (no clamp, stainless e-Ritchie variety) will
>accomplish the same thing without all the fuss. It will be visible when
>the derailleur is removed but only you will notice. If you choose the band
>304 will work fine for this as it is inexpensive and corrosion resistant but

>I am getting old... IMHO creating a problem to create a solution..
>
>
>
>Dave Bohm
>
>
>
> _____

>(203) 654-6230 <tel:%28203%29%20654-6230>

>
>
>On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Matt Wilkinson
><mwilkins...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I was just wondering if anyone could recommend a "minimum grade" of
>> stainless to be used unpainted on a frame (non-structural) in all
>> conditions? eg 304, 316, 321. I've ordered some fillet pro already.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>> Matt Wilkinson
>> Lower Clapton, London, UK
>>
>
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><mailto:framebuilders%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

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>
>
>
>--
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[Matt Wilkinson]

Thanks,

 

But I think an empty clamp looks like you borrowed your dad's bike to run it fixed.  It will also still reveal damaged paint when the derailleur is removed. Not really what I want to show at Bespoked.

[dave bohm]

My thought is this.  Lots of people want to make multi use bikes and then you know what 99% of them do?  Set it up one way and never change it.   A bike is either a fixed or multi-geared but both is um….

 

Second, the front mech braze on from Ritchie is stainless so you mask off the clamping face…no damaged paint.     As far as what other hipsters think you are riding, the general public, even enthusiast won’t notice and like they say on those day-time talk shows….I don’t care what anyone thinks!

 

Dave

 

---

[teryk]

I don't know why you would want to do something cool and artistic when
a run of the mill product that everybody can buy would could serve the
same purpose. After all, where would it stop. Some day you might find
yourself making a sliding bottom bracket mount rather than buying one
of the many available eccentrics on the market. :-)

http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/tandem.html

Teryk

[dave bohm]

Well, that stoopid sh-t should have known better.....;>)

Dave Bohm

-----Original Message-----
From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:frameb...@googlegroups.com]

http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/tandem.html

Teryk

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[Tom W]

You won't be taking a derailleur, cables, chainrings, shifter on and
off anyway. So, ride a fixie, be happy, and forget about the
derailleur. That's my advice.

On Feb 19, 4:57 pm, "dave bohm" <daveb...@cox.net> wrote:
> Well, that stoopid sh-t should have known better.....;>)
>
> Dave Bohm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frameb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:frameb...@googlegroups.com]
>
> On Behalf Of teryk
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:30 PM
> To: Framebuilders
> Subject: [Frame] Re: Stainless grades
>
> I don't know why you would want to do something cool and artistic when
> a run of the mill product that everybody can buy would could serve the
> same purpose. After all, where would it stop. Some day you might find
> yourself making a sliding bottom bracket mount rather than buying one
> of the many available eccentrics on the market. :-)
>
> http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/tandem.html
>
> Teryk
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Framebuilders" group.
>

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>
> To post to this group, send email to frameb...@googlegroups.com
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[Matt Wilkinson]

Thanks, but you can't ride a fixie across Europe to ECMC carrying camping gear and compete in all the events once there.  This was the design brief from the customer.

 

 

Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).

[Alex Wetmore]

This is getting way off topic, but is he carrying a spare wheel, or running a flip-flop hub with a multispeed freewheel on the freewheel side?

For a custom bike I'd just run a 28.6mm front derailleur.  They aren't easy to find new anymore, but they are out there.  I don't really like the idea of having a stress riser near the transition or in the thin section of the bottom of the seat tube.

alex

[Matt Wilkinson]

I'm making a wheel carrier.

 

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/sprint-wheel-carriers.html

 

Besides, isn't a standard derailleur clamp band the same if not more of a stress riser?

[M-gineering]

On 20-2-2012 22:04, Matt Wilkinson wrote:
> Thanks, but you can't ride a fixie across Europe to ECMC carrying
> camping gear and compete in all the events once there. This was the
> design brief from the customer.

the customer is always right and all that, but i'm beginning to think
that if he were to leave all the complications at home and invest the
money saved in some light weight camping gear, he'd be fine on a fixed wheel
--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[Mathias Scherer]

Isn't part of the appeal of a fixie that it's about as minimalistic as it
gets? I mean adding all those things sort of spoils it anyway. Actually
people not only rode singlespeeds across half of Europe, they did so in
races. Depending on which shape you are in that may well mean running
something slightly more user friendly than say 53-11 or so.

I have people asking for an MTB which they then want to convert to a
roadracing bike by adding a different set of wheels and, if possible, they'd
like to add some skates to go iceskating on in come wintertimes. What people
sometimes do not realise is that while it is possible to build a bike
capable of doing quite a lot of things,it will always mean a compromises. In
addition to that I have often found that exactly those customers who can't
make up their mind about what it is they ultimately want in the end are not
even able to make up their mind about buying it of you. If I where you I'd
suggest to the customer to go for a thoroughbred instead of a lukewarm
compromise.

To cut a long story short: I fully subscribe to what Martin said.

schrieb "M-gineering" unter <in...@m-gineering.nl>:

> On 20-2-2012 22:04, Matt Wilkinson wrote:
>> Thanks, but you can't ride a fixie across Europe to ECMC carrying
>> camping gear and compete in all the events once there. This was the
>> design brief from the customer.
>
>
> the customer is always right and all that, but i'm beginning to think
> that if he were to leave all the complications at home and invest the
> money saved in some light weight camping gear, he'd be fine on a fixed wheel

--
Mathias Scherer
Ludwig & Scherer GmbH
Wintringerstrasse 19
66271 Kleinblittersdorf

Geschäftsführer Mathias Scherer

[Tom W]

Wow, carrying wheels on your handlebars? That's seems really really
cumbersome, and not too safe in traffic situations. What about a
simpler option: Use flip flop hub, either fixie/fixie, or fixie/
freewheel with different size cogs, and flip as needed. If desired
carry additional spare cogs of different sizes and changeout tool, and
off you go. Could work and woudl certainly be pure, simple cycling.

On Feb 21, 3:20 am, Mathias Scherer <Math...@Ludwigundscherer.com>
wrote:

> Isn't part of the appeal of a fixie that it's about as minimalistic as it
> gets? I mean adding all those things sort of spoils it anyway. Actually
> people not only rode singlespeeds across half of Europe, they did so in
> races. Depending on which shape you are in that may well mean running
> something slightly more user friendly than say 53-11 or so.
>
> I have people asking for an MTB which they then want to convert to a
> roadracing bike by adding a different set of wheels and, if possible, they'd
> like to add some skates to go iceskating on in come wintertimes. What people
> sometimes do not realise is that while it is possible to build a bike
> capable of doing quite a lot of things,it will always mean a compromises. In
> addition to that I have often found that exactly those customers who can't
> make up their mind about what it is they ultimately want in the end are not
> even able to make up their mind about buying it of you. If I where you I'd
> suggest to the customer to go for a thoroughbred instead of a lukewarm
> compromise.
>
> To cut a long story short: I fully subscribe to what Martin said.
>

>  schrieb "M-gineering" unter <i...@m-gineering.nl>:

[M-gineering]

On 21-2-2012 14:14, Tom W wrote:
> Wow, carrying wheels on your handlebars? That's seems really really
> cumbersome, and not too safe in traffic situations. What about a
> simpler option: Use flip flop hub, either fixie/fixie, or fixie/
> freewheel with different size cogs, and flip as needed. If desired
> carry additional spare cogs of different sizes and changeout tool, and
> off you go. Could work and woudl certainly be pure, simple cycling.

6 bolt disk cassette hub with a bolt on cog and just flip the wheel over.

And google Eierlegendevollmilchsau ;)

[mallard]

I built a two-speed, you shift the front, used a broken derailleur in the rear and found a nut & bolt that fit so you can change gears with a screwdriver any time.

 

I like the setup for city riding, it's convenient and simple like true single-speed riding but you have the bail-out when you need it.

tom

 

[Matt Wilkinson]

Sounds like all you guys have lots of good ideas to do with your own bikes. 

 

It's true that if you're not comfortable in traffic with something light on your front hub that sticks out less than your leg you shouldn't really be there. 

I wish I had this bike when I rode to ECMC in Budapest instead of my tourer, meaning that I had to borrow a track bike for the velodrome that was too small for me.

 

But please, don't tell me what to make.

 

 

 

 

[Wade Patton Velo]

yes.

and well, that's what happens when things are discussed in abstract of the whole, which of course is to streamline the discussion but then leads to assumptions and generalizations and even advice not sought and maybe even not warranted or relevant to the application. 

the issue i agree with is the stress riser-but that that assumes a butted tube.  straight tubing and thoughtful sleeve shaping solves that "issue", but isn't the only way either.

carry on mr. wilkinson.

wp

[Tom W]

Matt, you are right. I was getting a bit ahead of myself on this
one. My apologies. As the gentleman said, carry on. Hope you find a
good solution.

Tom

> >http://search.bikelist.org(older content).

[Matthew D. Ignacious Budd]

I've taken to just building what I think is right without asking
anybody out on the open forums if they think its right. In my own
mucking about with stainless the 304 grade is always fine as I haven't
set up to back purge the welder so I can't yet play with the fun new
KVA stuff for structural aps. Strikes me that 304's lower yield
strength would be desirable when avoidance of a stress riser is of
concern,go for it. Can't wait to see this wheel carrier in practice,
it is certainly something that could suit some of the riding I like to
do, I just got back from riding a short stretch of a 200 mile road off
road trail that spans the boston harbor, a second set of wheels at the
ready could be just the thing.
Here's to the mildest winter on record in New England and to 3.5 hours
in the saddle on ash wednesday.

Matt Budd
www.buddbikes.com

[Mike Giannico]

I have also envisioned many different carrying devices for my bikes. One for my ashiko drum. Wheels. Even another bike..... Don't ask. How about putting the wheel set on the back....hmmmm. Kinda like a Lincoln mark 7...hot soup

Mike g

> Searchable archives for this group can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/framebuilders (recent content) and http://search.bikelist.org (older content).
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[Matt Budd]

I have to build a fork for my polo bike, thinking of a 135mm axle spacing up front for interchangeability.

--
Matt Budd
Budd Bike Works
407 Main St. #2
Medford, MA 02155
www.buddbikes.com
617-5o4-6213