Vintage 63mm Bottom Bracket Shell?

[Forbes Black]

Hi All,

I just picked up a very nice 68cm, fillet brazed road bike off craigslist.  The seller was clearing out his dad's estate, and had no idea about the details of the bike.  It is clearly a custom build.  There are no decals or serial number.  It has Campy drops, a "fastback"-style seat post bolt, and the fillets look very good, at least as far as I can tell given that I am not going to take off the paint.  The components are all late-80's, but I wonder if the frame might be older than that.  It is truly a mystery frame.  If any of you are frame sleuths, let me know, and I will post some photos.

When I bought the bike, I noticed that the adjustable cup on the BB was showing a lot of threads.  I assumed someone had put a 73mm spindle in a 68mm shell.  However, when I took things apart, I realized it was a 68mm spindle in a 63mm shell.  My first thought was that someone had damaged the shell and removed 5mm worth of material in order to be able to face it smooth again.  Then, I wondered if anyone ever built frames using 63mm BB shells.  If so, this might be a good clue as to who built the frame.

Has anyone ever heard of an old-school, threaded 63mm bottom bracket/shell?  If so, please let me know.  If not, I will go back to my assumption that either the shell was damaged and repaired or that the builder was new and didn't really know what he was doing.

Thanks!

Forbes

[Doug Fattic]

Forbes, before investment cast shells became available or at least more common, old style stamped and welded bottom brackets shells often came only 65 or 66mm wide.  Sometimes they might have been even less than that.  When I was apprenticing in England in 1975, I looked through their entire inventory of over 100 shells and couldn't find one even 67mm wide.  Once they were faced on each side they could lose another mm or two.  Was this a socket type of bb shell or a plain one fillet brazed?    

It was rare to see OS tubing even on big frames back in the 70's.  A picture of the frame or a little clearer description might make it easier to help identify your frame.  I wouldn't assume the final width of the shell had anything to do with his skill.  

It was common for me to repaint frames back in the 70's and early 80's and have the customer go the cheapest route and request not bothering with decals since it might get painted again in a couple of years.  Sorta today's equivalent of getting an old frame powdercoated.    

Doug Fattic

Niles, Michigan        

[Forbes Black]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for your knowledgeable response. I had no idea that BB shells were ever less standardized than they were in the 80s.  The frame tubing does not look oversized to me, although I have not measured tube diameters.

I have posted some photos of the frame on Flickr, tagged as "mystery bike:"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclesvalhalla/tags/mysterybike/

I look forward to more wisdom.       

Cheers,

Forbes

[Bruce Gordon]

Just putting it out there.

Boulder Bikes and Rene Herse USA is having a display in Denver the end of February.

Here is a link to their page - http://www.renehersebicycles.com/denverdisplay.htm

I will be there with a bike, tires and stuff

Regards,

Bruce Gordon

Bruce Gordon Cycles

www.bgcycles.com

http://brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/

[Steve Cortez]

Forbes,

I have a track bike with a 65mm bottom bracket shell. From looking at old catalogs, it looks like Campagnolo once made a spindle for this bb width (65-P-110) but they're hard to find. I'd bet that the bike you have started life at about 65mm. 

It looks nice, sorry I can't shed light on its origin.

Steve

[Forbes Black]

On Monday, January 28, 2013 9:29:47 AM UTC-8, Steve Cortez wrote:

I have a track bike with a 65mm bottom bracket shell. From looking at old catalogs, it looks like Campagnolo once made a spindle for this bb width (65-P-110) but they're hard to find. I'd bet that the bike you have started life at about 65mm. 

 

Thanks, Steve.  It is likely you are correct.  The current width is really more like 63.5mm, so it would make sense that it started out as a 65mm shell.

 

I'll run it with the 68mm spindle unless I start to have problems with it.

 

I got it running last weekend, mostly built as-purchased, with repacked bearings and tuning all around.  I definitely need to swap out some parts, but it is a fun ride so far.

Cheers,

Forbes

[Jim Adney]

On 28 Jan 2013 at 16:04, Forbes Black wrote:

> Thanks, Steve. It is likely you are correct. The current width is really
> more like 63.5mm, so it would make sense that it started out as a 65mm
> shell.

I have a bunch of Davis Components (English) cast steel bottom
brackets that I bought in the middle '70s. These were some of the
last ones Holdsworth had in stock. They measure a little thinner than
I thought they should be, but they also measured about the same as
the bottom bracket shells on my Bob Jackson frames purchased in the
same era.

They measure just under 67 mm, or just a few thousands of an inch
over 2-5/8". When I convert 63.5 mm to inches I get exactly 2.5".
It's unfortunate, and not too surprising, but it looks like the
English had their own standards, at least back then.

I get around this by using Phil Wood bottom bracket bearings.

--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jad...@vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************

[OBCA]

Hi Jim,
Back in the day, Mark DiNucci and I built a track frameset for Carl Leusenkamp who insisted the shell be 65mm in width. This ostensibly built up a faster frame. Carl did win a bronze medal in the PanAm Games on the bike so what's to doubt.
Andy N.
www.strawberrybicycle.com
www.oregonframebuilders.org

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[Jona Aal]

When Graham Obree made his first successful attempt on the hour record, he had a narrow bottom bracket which was famously made using the bearing from a washing machine to withstand the less favorable loads placed on a narrow pair of bearings.

He had a theory about the knees and ankles being the same distance apart as they are when you place a banana between your knees!

There is a good film called 'The Flying Scotsman' based on his track career.

Jona

--
Jona Aal

H 01434 345 620
M 07940 731 375

[M-gineering]

Walser makes some track/TT frames which are probably even narrower. Here
is a picture of a cut and shut Campa track hub which was narrowed to fit

On 1/29/2013 9:56 AM, Jona Aal wrote:
> When Graham Obree made his first successful attempt on the hour record,
> he had a narrow bottom bracket which was famously made using the bearing
> from a washing machine to withstand the less favorable loads placed on a
> narrow pair of bearings.

--
Marten Gerritsen
Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands