Mini Mill Recommendation

[Daniel Jackson]

Recommend me a Sub $1700 mini mill (new, available now) that is suitable for mitering steel.

Or is that request just naive? Say it ain’t so!

[Alistair Spence]

Alistair Spence <alspe...@gmail.com>	7:00 PM (2 hours ago)
to Daniel

Do you want to do actual machining with it, or do you just want to run it as a tube notcher?

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 6:52 PM Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com> wrote:

Recommend me a Sub $1700 mini mill (new, available now) that is suitable for mitering steel.

Or is that request just naive? Say it ain’t so!

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Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.

[Alistair Spence]

I had one of these, https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0704 which once I tuned it up a little worked quite well for mitering tubing.I can't speak to how it would handle heat treated tubes, because I never used it for that purpose (only normalized 4130 aircraft tubing). I will add that I used to modify the holesaws I ran in that mill using a tip that I got from Brent Steelman, whereby you grind a little back relief into each tooth to make it freer cutting. I found that to be helpful. That little mill only weighed 300 lbs or so so it needed all the help it could get.

 

I was also using it to make some jigs, and a frame fixture, and found it to be perfectly adequate for the kind of machining that was necessary in order to make those items.

If I was just looking for something for notching tubes, then within your budget I'd look at round column mill drills. They have a decent amount of mass, and power, for a reasonable price. Not so great for actual machining, but as a notcher it would work well,

eg. https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-29-x-8-Table/G0705

Mill Drills like that one can often be found on Craigslist for good prices.

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 6:52 PM Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com> wrote:

Recommend me a Sub $1700 mini mill (new, available now) that is suitable for mitering steel.

Or is that request just naive? Say it ain’t so!

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[Andrew R Stewart]

Daniel- What other tooling do you have now? How have you been mitering up to
now? What's your backround and what's your next few years of fabricating
going to be like?

Buying a new small mill might be fine but also might turn out to be a loss
soon enough. Andy



Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, New York
USA

[Jon Norstog]

I've had the Grizzly mini-mill (actually a glorified drill press) and used it for mitering tubes seven or eight years now.  It is definitely a step up from the "Ol Joint Jigger" tube notcher.  I set up the belts to run it as slow as I can, which is still a little on the fast side.   I(t will run on 110 volt current, but works much better on 220.  I burned out a motor milling stuff with 11v current.  A new motor cost about $375, but I had the motor rewired and rebuilt here in Portland ($750) and anticipate no further problems with it.  I wired a 220V circuit into my garage/shop and so the whole setup runs better.

I have had no problem mitering heat-treated chrome moly or R 853m tubing.  The mill has a micro-adjustable traverse for the table and the knee.  However I've found that my Anvil mitering fixtures leave the work sticking out far enough it flexes in the direction the cutter hits it.  So, micro-adjust be damn i just eyeball my miters for center.   Apologies to all the type-A machinist on this list.

To answer your question:  the Grizz is kind of a PITA but it will do the job.

jn

"Thursday"

[M-gineering]

I either miter on my 600 kgs toolmakers lathe or on my 1500 kgs mill.
The mill is way more pleasant and stable. Given your budget and what I
see of the second hand americam machine tool market, I'd say get
something solid

On 2/16/2019 3:52 AM, Daniel Jackson wrote:
> Recommend me a Sub $1700 mini mill (new, available now) that is suitable for mitering steel.
>
> Or is that request just naive? Say it ain’t so!
>

--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[Jon Kendziera]

I second Marten's advice:  With a $1700 budget you should be able to find a used small to medium sized horizontal mill that will miter tubes better than a mini-mill like the Grizzly.  The bigger used ones are usually cheaper than the small used ones if you have the space and means to transport one.

Jon Kendziera

jonny-cycles.com

[Andrew R Stewart]

Agree with the advice to buy used, I alluded as much in my earlier reply. I was able to find a well used Asian 8x30 vertical that is a clone to a Grizzly G0731 (but all manual). At almost 1000lbs it’s about as large as I can handle myself (in moving about on a flat floor). I rented a trailer and had a few friends to transport it home. It cost $850 off Craigs list. I see similar mills every so often for close to the same cost. I see bigger and more desirable Bridgeports for not too much more. Andy

 

Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, New York
USA

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[Peter Olivetti]

For $1700 you can get a pretty decent drill mill or possibly even a knee mill that someone just needs gone. A mini mill is going to be useable but fairly limited and definitely not very rigid.

I used a harbor freight mini mill for my first 3 ish frames and it has complications with some common miter angles. Mostly because vast majority are dovetail columns and the head moves as the spindle or quill or whatever. On an actual mill or even drillmill they have an actual spindle travel rather than head travel meaning you have much more adjustability. I moved to a jet drill mill before I got my horizontals (which I bought for $800 each btw) and the drill mill made life way better. The horizontals are now pretty much all I use for mitering and I use the mill for popping hole, slotting seat tubes and some basic tool making.

Just my opinion but with $1700 you can do way better tha. A mini mill.

Cheers
Pete.

[Daniel Jackson]

Thank you all for your considered responses. 

The forming consensus points to a horizontal mill, which I had been considering given my main constraints. I've my eyes on the Barker PM or similar.

Overall, I'm looking for a machine that meets the following criteria:

1. Purpose: cut/miter tubes (heat treated), miter brake bosses, and slot seat/chain/fork tubes.

2. <$2000

3. I can move with one other person down stairs into my small burgeoning basement shop.    

The allure of buying new is the relative assurance that the thing will work without too much fiddling, repair, and setup. The used market is enticing, but judging a machine's fitness from afar on ebay or craigslist is difficult. 

Thanks again, folks.

Best,

Daniel

[Alex Wetmore]

A used machine is likely to be better dialed in than a brand new one.  I think of new machines, especially at the lower price levels, as being a kit of parts that can turn into a machine once properly cleaned up and assembled.  A used machine is much more likely to have had that done already.  The other reason to buy used is that you can probably get the machine with all sorts of tooling that you'd otherwise have to buy new.  

How many stairs do you need to deal with?  Is this a fairly permanent setup or is it a rental house that you'll probably move out of it in a year or two?

I have one of the smallest knee mills available, a Grizzly G3102.  This class of mill is called a 6x26 for it's table size, and for comparison a Bridgeport normally has a 9x36 table.  So it's basically a 2/3rds scale Bridgeport.  They turn up used for under $2000 (or did 10 years ago when I was looking).  I did get it into my basement with 3 people doing heavy lifting (took half an hour) and two people plus an engine hoist assembling.  My basement has exterior access, so we had to go down 4 stairs.

It's a good machine and a serious step up from something like the G0704.  I bought it from a local hobbyist framebuilder/pro fabricator who was upgrading to a Bridgeport.  

alex

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From: frameb...@googlegroups.com <frameb...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:37:15 AM
To: Framebuilders
Subject: [Frame] Re: Mini Mill Recommendation

 

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[Alex Wetmore]

I should add that getting my machine (which weighs 800-900lbs) into the basement was a pretty serious project with a lot of disassembly.  I broke it out into components: main body, head, knee+table, base.  The body was the heaviest portion and took three people to get down the stairs.   I rented an engine hoist (about $50) to finish assembly:

https://photos.alexwetmore.org/Home-Machine-Shop/Mill/i-kGZF6P4/A

I like to joke that my house is going to come with a lathe and a mill when it's time for me to sell it.  Both are on wheels so I can move them around in the shop, but getting them out of the shop isn't going to be easy.

alex

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From: frameb...@googlegroups.com <frameb...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:37:15 AM
To: Framebuilders
Subject: [Frame] Re: Mini Mill Recommendation

 

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[Gs InIllinois]

In case you are on Facebook, there is a small horizontal mill for sale in the "Framebuilding Tools and Supplies" group.

Not sure about the brand/model and it sounds like it needs a little TLC but looks nice.

Apparently located in AR: