Campy Hub Axle Thread - Taps & Dies needed

[Amir Avitzur]

Anybody have a source for M9x26tpi, M10x26tpi taps and dies?
These are for Campy hub axle threads.

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Amir Avitzur
R"G Israel

[M-gineering]

For starters don't call them Msomething, as - given the inch pitch- they
sure aren't metric

--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[Graeme Lomas]

26 TPI is usually dedicated brass thread where the pitch is 26 regardless of the diameter.

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[Mathias Scherer]

I assume you’ll be making the cones and axles yourself (since you’re looking for taps and dies). Why not go for something easier to source then? I’d do the threads on the axle on the lathe anyway.

Am 25.11.2012 9:17 Uhr schrieb "Graeme Lomas" unter <ken...@kesne.com.au>:

26 TPI is usually dedicated brass thread where the pitch is 26 regardless of the diameter.


On 25/11/2012, at 6:53 PM, Amir Avitzur wrote:

Anybody have a source for M9x26tpi, M10x26tpi taps and dies?
These are for Campy hub axle threads.

--
Mathias Scherer
Ludwig & Scherer GmbH
Wintringerstrasse 19
66271 Kleinblittersdorf

Geschäftsführer Mathias Scherer

[Jim Merz]

I cannot see why you would need a tap this size, are you making cones? If you are making both axle and cone then just use M9x1 for the tap and cut the axle on the lathe. One other thing on the Campy 9mm 26tpi is that the thread is Whitworth Standard Cycle. See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Cycle  

If you are making cones and expect to run ball bearings directly on the cone then you may have a problem with the heat treating changing the internal thread. Taps can be custom made, if only a few are made they are not cheap. Really no need for a die as the axle thread would be better done on a lathe. Real axle threads are rolled, and this does make a difference in fatigue performance on the rear axle. 

Jim Merz

Big Sur CA

[Jim Merz]

So I found this company for the special taps: http://www.tapcotaps.com/

I guess you maybe are making track nuts so would need to tap these. But why the axles? Wheels Brand makes really good CrMo axles in both 26tpi and 1mm. You should be able to find extra long ones and cut to length. http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/axles.html

[Thomas]

Perhaps Amir is looking to clean up some existing pieces...
I also seem to remember that he likes authentic, making it exactly as
it was at times...
Thomas
Amir, if you only need a few, maybe I have them for you... = )

[Arthur Marks]

Tapco is great to deal with, but I believe Amir is not in the US. Not
sure if that makes a difference for his preferred supplier. Tapco has
made me some truly custom taps and dies---including one to metric
dimension and pitch but in the 55-deg. Whitworth thread form. In that
case, the order included a one-time net tooling charge which put a
single die into the $250 range. The price per drops dramatically if
you can order three or more and spread the tooling cost between them.
If you need a high quality tap or die for running a good number of
parts, I can highly recommend them. That is the real question 'behind
the question.' How many pieces?

If only a handful of pieces and such a small ID thread is intimidating
to cut one-off on the lathe, there are methods to make a custom tap
out of O1 ("silver steel" in British parlance). Being in the bicycle
building realm, you should have no problem rounding up a torch with
which to harden it. It is somewhat common to "make your own" in model
machining circles. I'd offer to make one up for you, butshipping
might not make it such a generous offer ;) It actually sounds like an
enjoyable weekend afternoon project! -Arthur

[Arthur Marks]

Okay, so my previous message is a day late or so because I didn't hit
"reply all" --- hence it went to one member and not the whole list. I
guess that means I contribute so little here that I don't know how to
properly send a message! :) With that in mind, I decided to put my
'money where my mouth is'. Here is the tap I made for kicks:
http://tinyurl.com/cy7lrru Like I said, it sounded fun. Made from
O1, hardened and tempered with an O/A torch. I didn't feel like
grinding a 55-deg. bit, so the thread is technically 60-deg., but
otherwise it is the Campy 10mm x 26 tpi thing. I don't have a Campy
axle to test the result anyway. I found that the current Sutherland's
is very misleading on this spec -- it lists the thread form as only
"Italian". Of course, there is absolutely no such industry standard
to reference. I had to go back to a 6th Edition of Sutherland's for
confirmation. There is a drawing for "Italian" threads in the
Appendix (pg.17-12). It is listed as identical to the Whitworth form.
So... It is a true bastard! Haha

I tried to be fancy and flute the tap with a ball mill for 'hook rake'
like the pro's do. Looks good, but I don't have a cup grinding wheel
to properly sharpen the cutting edge. I expect cutting flats instead
for the flutes would go a long way in improving the cutter even if it
then looks decidedly DIY. Flats can be sharpened after hardening with
a simple bench stone.

... -Arthur

[Arthur Marks]

Dave,
The shape matches a Whitworth thread profile, but those Campy axles
don't match a standard size/pitch within the Whitworth system.
http://tinyurl.com/bp8xd22 -Arthur

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:47 PM, David Porter <fro...@porterscustom.com> wrote:
> If that is true, that this is the same as Whitworth thread or rather...

[Amir Avitzur]

I plan on making F.B/Campy/Simplex 3-piece look-alike hubs.
Unlike the British, who machined the races inside their steel barrels, F.B. used hardened races that were force fit into their barrels.
(I haven't cut such barrels in half yet, but from the outside, that's what they look like ... see http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/airlite-section-cad.html).

I need taps and dies so that I will have the option of making the parts myself. 9mmx26tpi and 10mmx26tpi are screwball thread sizes, but are needed for interchangeability with original components.

If I were making production hubs I'd use "magneto" bearings, as found on Maxi-Car and Pelissier hubs, and standard thread sizes.

9mmx26tpi and 10mmx26tpi tooling was available in the 70's at least for chasing threads. If anybody has such tools that they are not using, I will pay generously for them.

[Alistair Spence]

Very cool.

Alistair.

[David Porter]

Amir, Arthur, et al.

If that is true, that this is the same as Whitworth thread or rather

dimension ( I believe that Whitworth is based on shaft diameter ) anyway
those taps and dies are still available. I think the outfit I've used in the
past was/is called British Fasteners. A search will probably find them if
they are still in business. Seems to me they were/are USA based.
dave

fro...@porterscustom.com

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