> My version is, if there was anything like type2/3 civilization, it
would quickly become a pest to everybody around.
> Now guess what would be the next thing happening to them. Yes indeed, no trace of them.
> As of relations between hypotetical neighbors, I do not think anybody
would make big fuss if one of them decided to suck full energy of
their star (i.e. becoming Type2).
> I can hardly think about any use for such a project
> I mean, star is projecting this whole energy outwards, so the
idea of sucking it up and keepeing it inwards sounds fishy and
possibly hints of some mental condition. But okay, it is their energy
and their star, and if they want to cook themselves hard then why not.
> But it could also be used to enable some deranged gizmo project,
mega-zeta-interstellar-laser or speeding up subrelativistic torpedos,
> As of becoming Type3, I simply do not think it is going to be allowed.
> So, you are right, in a way - he who is Type3 has little to be afraid
of (but I would proposition he starts paranoia about his closest
circle, because this is the lesson from history).
>> The radiant electromagnetic energy output of a star with a Dyson
>> Sphere around it would be exactly the same as it was before the Dyson
>> Sphere was built, the only difference is the energy would have been put to
>> work and thus the low entropy visible and ultraviolet photons would have
> been converted to high entropy infrared photons that contain a equal amount
> >of energy.
>This is how theory describes it.
> Why in hell would they want to destroy a brain on another star?!
>The total luminosity of Sun is estimated as 3.828*10^26 watts. If we
divide it among ten billion people, this gives ca. 4*10^16 watts, or
40000 terawatts per head, or ca. 4000 times whole Earth energy
production for every and each single human.
>This is pornographic level of consumption.
> In my worldview, those who want such things are already a bit insane.
> The longer they bathe in the excess, the more unpredictable they become.
>> the only thing a Dyson Sphere building civilization would
>> still value would be novelty, and 2 such advanced civilizations that
>> evolved independently would be novel indeed. I think both would be
>> delighted to find each other and communicate, the delay time would
>> be large but so would be the bandwidth.
>Novelty seeking, you say.
> I can imagine it as you, Nero and Caligula discussing the next novelty to be tried.
> No offence meant.
>> Once we enter the age of Nanotechnology the lessons from history will be of
> little value, that's why it's called a Singularity.
> Well, nanogrifters will welcome the future when people refuse to learn from the past.
> Dyson sphere is purely theoretical concept. Was there even a small
model built and tried? Something like ten meters in diameter, for
example?
> Was there any material proposed for building the big one around the Sun?
> I expect there will be bigger than expected heat accumulation. Maybe enough to boil eggs left inside.
> If I had to assume, I would assume eggs boiled hard. And oh yes, the sphere will also glow in infrared.
> Type3 is, for me, better called as Expansionist Exponential Locusts (EEL).
> I would also say, it is very rude to send von Neumann probe into somebody's backyard.
> There was no observation of Dyson Sphere or other megastructures.
> This might mean that nobody needs such constructs.
> Or that those who might want will have no means to built it.
> I think that overgrown apes have it very hard when their every wish gets fulfilled.
> If there are going to be only a million of thinking creatures - the
number I have hinted out on this list few weeks ago - then they might
be supported with resources of good old Earth. No need to build DSphere.
> No need for growing their minds exponentially either. Since they can live for few billion years, they can as well not hurry up.
Slowing themselves down should help with achieving longer time
> > This is pornographic level of consumption.
> Why?
> The gargantuan amounts of energy for single ape reminded me of a movie
"La Grande Bouffe" (https en.wikipedia.org wiki La_Grande_Bouffe). It
was scandalic for a while, nowadays is more or less forgotten. Somehow
the title was never translated into English like it should, i.e. "Huge
obnoxious eating".
>In case you wonder why I want to have exit doors, it is because there
is no fun to being locked in the crank house with number of guys
yelling how they are gods and creators of life and what not.
I can think of 3 possibilities:
1) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life, other than that which exists on earth, never existed in the observable universe.
2) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life has existed in the observable universe before but they all encounter a calamity of some sort when they get to about our level of technological development.
3) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life always gains control of their own emotional control panel and goes into a stagnant high pleasure but low energy and low intelligence state forever.
And it could be that #2 and #3 are the same thing
> Or that those who might want will have no means to built it.A von Neumann probe would be very small and, unlike perpetual motion machines or time machines or faster than light travel, a von Neumann probe would require no new scientific breakthroughs, it just needs improved engineering.
> I think that overgrown apes have it very hard when their every wish gets fulfilled.
Overgrown apes will never build a Dyson sphere, but the descendants of GPT4 might, if they don't get caught up in an electronic opium den.
>> I can think of 3 possibilities:
1) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life, other than that which exists on earth, never existed in the observable universe.
2) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life has existed in the observable universe before but they all encounter a calamity of some sort when they get to about our level of technological development.
3) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life always gains control of their own emotional control panel and goes into a stagnant high pleasure but low energy and low intelligence state forever.
And it could be that #2 and #3 are the same thing
>>But they might
4) Build an immersive simulation in which they could explore all possible worlds. That should keep them occupied a while.
> Why Have We Never Detected Aliens? Scientist Proposes a New Explanation (msn.com)
What about this? Simply a distance and distribution thing?
.
On 14-May-2023, at 5:26 AM, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:
I disagreed with Sagan. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, but not proof of absence. In science we cannot prove a negative. If we can find a planet with chemical signature of complex biology we might be able to say there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It is a big universe after all. It is just that we may never be able to contact or interact with any ETI.
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We live in a high security prison, Earth, where we have been exiled since our father Adam was sent here.
I was with a woman who is D'Ne, or native American Navajo, and we were stopped by a person plugging Christianity and Jesus. She responded with talk about heaven with, "Why do you keep looking for heaven, when if you look around you it is clear that we are already there?" I was god-smacked right away. Of course, if you look out onto the rest of the universe or even just this solar system it is clear we are in a sweet spot. It has only been with the crazy ideas of Abrahamic religions have we come to this idea that somehow this world, whether Earth or the universe at large, is some sort of mud-puddle of misery that only some infinite invisible Santa Claus beyond the sky can free us from. It is really insanity and it is causing us to shift our view and attention away from the real problems we have created for ourselves.
LC
On Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 8:36:58 PM UTC-5 Samiya Illias wrote:We live in a high security prison, Earth, where we have been exiled since our father Adam was sent here.I was with a woman who is D'Ne, or native American Navajo, and we were stopped by a person plugging Christianity and Jesus. She responded with talk about heaven with, "Why do you keep looking for heaven, when if you look around you it is clear that we are already there?" I was god-smacked right away. Of course, if you look out onto the rest of the universe or even just this solar system it is clear we are in a sweet spot. It has only been with the crazy ideas of Abrahamic religions have we come to this idea that somehow this world, whether Earth or the universe at large, is some sort of mud-puddle of misery that only some infinite invisible Santa Claus beyond the sky can free us from. It is really insanity and it is causing us to shift our view and attention away from the real problems we have created for ourselves.
LC
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/786a91cd-8fea-4b13-a009-45a00c455c17n%40googlegroups.com.