[Philip Benjamin]
Trump supporters? That is a phrase inappositely coined by America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS or WAMP-the-Ingrate, who hate the very foundations and founders of this Republic. Over 62 million adults, bona fide American citizens, surely KNEW that this was the last chance for America to be America!! It was a question of now or never. The truth will be out if the present Dept. of Justice has the guts to go ahead with an impartial investigation into the politico-deep state- media usurpation of the American government at all levels from the City/County and State to the Non-sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States of this Constitutional Republic of Lex Rex and not Rex Lex (http://constitution.org/sr/lexrex.htm). See Lex Rex of Samuel Rutherford (Presbyterian Minister). Also its high recommendation by the “Prince of Preacher” Spurgeon (Baptist Minister). American Constitution is an extension of various Church Constitutions. The Colonies already had all institutions of Freedom in place after the historical and historic First Great Awakening. No other people EVER in the annals of history did or could have ever come up with any such ideas. The Magna Carta (of “We the Nobles”), the Mayflower Compact and the Puritan Mission Statement to American Indians come close. Ignorance coupled with willful disrespect for one’s heritage as facilitated on the WAMP-erial campuses is a sure path to victory for Socialist-Marxist-Progressive PAGANISM of the types of Nordic pagan Hitler, Slavic pagan Stalin, Caucasian pagan Mussolini etc., or of the type of Celtic pagan French anarchists. https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/americas-dangerous-historical-ignorance/
Compare it wit https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ignorance-of-history-is-no-joke/
Philip Benjamin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:11 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Allah: the One and Only Deity
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> From the Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 7 page 792:
"The son of God is omniscient and omnipotent knowing history in advance and being able to control its course”.
> The Pope Jean-Paul 2 made explicit that all statement of that kind are parabola and should never been taken literally.
That's the exact same excuse Trump suporters use when they to try to explain away his many many lies.
> Of course, that is debated by some catholic, bu I have still never met a christian who believe in the anything as naive.
You sure have not met many Christians! I have never met a Christian who didn't believe something exactly that naive. I concede there are a few that have abandoned the idea of Christianity but not the ASCII sequence C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-i-t-y, although I have not personally met them.
> You might read the book by Jean Trouillard or Paul Valadier. You might change your mind on this, but perhaps you don’t want to change your mind.
I don't want to read their books because I see little point in reading a book written by someone who knows even less about how the world really works than I do. Life is too short to read every book ever written so one must use judgement and be selective.
John K Clark
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> Trump supporters?
>Over 62 million adults, bona fide American citizens, surely KNEW that this was the last chance for America to be America!!
> That is a phrase inappositely coined by America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS or WAMP-the-Ingrate, who hate the very foundations and founders of this Republic. [...] It was a question of now or never. The truth will be out if the present Dept. of Justice has the guts to go ahead with an impartial investigation into the politico-deep state- media usurpation of the American government at all levels from the City/County and State to the Non-sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States of this Constitutional Republic of Lex Rex and not Rex Lex (http://constitution.org/sr/lexrex.htm). See Lex Rex of Samuel Rutherford (Presbyterian Minister). Also its high recommendation by the “Prince of Preacher” Spurgeon (Baptist Minister). American Constitution is an extension of various Church Constitutions. The Colonies already had all institutions of Freedom in place after the historical and historic First Great Awakening. No other people EVER in the annals of history did or could have ever come up with any such ideas. The Magna Carta (of “We the Nobles”), the Mayflower Compact and the Puritan Mission Statement to American Indians come close. Ignorance coupled with willful disrespect for one’s heritage as facilitated on the WAMP-erial campuses is a sure path to victory for Socialist-Marxist-Progressive PAGANISM of the types of Nordic pagan Hitler, Slavic pagan Stalin, Caucasian pagan Mussolini etc., or of the type of Celtic pagan French anarchists
[Philip Benjamin]
Trump supporters? That is a phrase inappositely coined by America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS
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[Philip Benjamin]
Telmo Menezes wrote: “I went to Wikipedia to look for a definition of "liberal":…I am a liberal… what do you oppose…?” End of quote.
Wikipedia may be sometimes a source for past (not current) references. Classical Liberalism has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Modern Liberalism. For a long time there was no difference between Liberals and Conservatives in America, except for their constituencies. Businessmen, including family farm owners and Professionals were Conservatives. Labor, Trade Unions farm workers, and Southern plantation owners, were Liberals.
The best government was the least government for most of Americans who also generally believed that human nature is essentially fallen and corrupt (Adamic insubordination and the imputed/encoded Sentence of Death) requiring certain minimum necessary governmental interventions.
That is all 180 degrees changed today (References below). Modern Liberals are Marxist, Socialist, Fascist, Humanist Progressive PAGANS. They have fully infiltrated the academia, especially so after the collapse of the Marxist Soviet Empire, also most of the businesses and even some farms. The Progressives have complete sway over the Trade Unions (they actually own them), the Media, most publishing industries including many once-Christian publishers, and the Deep State. They ardently believe that human nature is essentially good and greater the government, greater is the good. Tolerance necessarily means exclusion of all real or imagined opposition. Silencing or forcefully excluding the opponents by all means legal and illegal is their indispensable stratagem, because it is self-evident for them that “the end justifies the means”. Insults and intimidations are their usual weapons and they make no bones about it (typical examples are the writings and pronouncements of evolutionist biologist Richard Dawkins). Everything they believe is the TRUTH and they are ALWAYS RIGHT. Group-think is all they know. The only critical-thinking allowed is “labelling” exhibited by vituperations and mockings. Anti-Christian and anti-Bible fanaticism is their acceptable short-cuts to “brilliance”.
Goodbye to Liberalism
Evidentialist
Philip Benjamin
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/difference-between-classical-modern-liberalism-c9b2cef60fcef0ef https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-modern-and-classical-liberalism-without-using-too-much-philosophical-jargon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John K Clark .
[Philip Benjamin]Trump supporters? That is a phrase inappositely coined by America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS or WAMP-the-Ingrate, who hate the very foundations and founders of this Republic. Over 62 million adults, bona fide American citizens, surely KNEW that this was the last chance for America to be America!! It was a question of now or never. The truth will be out if the present Dept. of Justice has the guts to go ahead with an impartial investigation into the politico-deep state- media usurpation of the American government at all levels from the City/County and State to the Non-sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States of this Constitutional Republic of Lex Rex and not Rex Lex (http://constitution.org/sr/ lexrex.htm). See Lex Rex of Samuel Rutherford (Presbyterian Minister). Also its high recommendation by the “Prince of Preacher” Spurgeon (Baptist Minister). American Constitution is an extension of various Church Constitutions. The Colonies already had all institutions of Freedom in place after the historical and historic First Great Awakening. No other people EVER in the annals of history did or could have ever come up with any such ideas. The Magna Carta (of “We the Nobles”), the Mayflower Compact and the Puritan Mission Statement to American Indians come close. Ignorance coupled with willful disrespect for one’s heritage as facilitated on the WAMP-erial campuses is a sure path to victory for Socialist-Marxist-Progressive PAGANISM of the types of Nordic pagan Hitler, Slavic pagan Stalin, Caucasian pagan Mussolini etc., or of the type of Celtic pagan French anarchists. https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/ americas-dangerous-historical- ignorance/
Philip Benjamin~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: everyth...@googlegroups. com <everyth...@googlegroups. com> On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:11 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups. com
Subject: Re: Allah: the One and Only Deity
>> From the Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 7 page 792:
"The son of God is omniscient and omnipotent knowing history in advance and being able to control its course”.> The Pope Jean-Paul 2 made explicit that all statement of that kind are parabola and should never been taken literally.That's the exact same excuse Trump suporters use when they to try to explain away his many many lies.> Of course, that is debated by some catholic, bu I have still never met a christian who believe in the anything as naive.
You sure have not met many Christians! I have never met a Christian who didn't believe something exactly that naive. I concede there are a few that have abandoned the idea of Christianity but not the ASCII sequence C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-i- t-y, although I have not personally met them.
> You might read the book by Jean Trouillard or Paul Valadier. You might change your mind on this, but perhaps you don’t want to change your mind.I don't want to read their books because I see little point in reading a book written by someone who knows even less about how the world really works than I do. Life is too short to read every book ever written so one must use judgement and be selective.John K Clark
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We are weavers in the web that we wove. We are victims of this technological marvel called the media, which now includes the internet. Joseph Goebbels, propaganda minister for the third Reich, said that a lie repeated often enough assumes a life as a "sort of truth." The media has becomes a crap-fest of nonsense that pumps out half-truths and sometimes outright lies. With the massive dollars behind this industry liberality based on evidence, facts, and logic is simply drowned out in the huge decibel volume against it. Donald t'Rump knows this as much as Goebbels did, and t'Rump is a pure grifter and hustler.
LC
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:59:21 AM UTC-5, medinuclear wrote:
[Philip Benjamin]
Trump supporters? That is a phrase inappositely coined by America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS or WAMP-the-Ingrate, who hate the very foundations and founders of this Republic. Over 62 million adults, bona fide American citizens, surely KNEW that this was the last chance for America to be America!! It was a question of now or never. The truth will be out if the present Dept. of Justice has the guts to go ahead with an impartial investigation into the politico-deep state- media usurpation of the American government at all levels from the City/County and State to the Non-sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States of this Constitutional Republic of Lex Rex and not Rex Lex (http://constitution.org/sr/ lexrex.htm). See Lex Rex of Samuel Rutherford (Presbyterian Minister). Also its high recommendation by the “Prince of Preacher” Spurgeon (Baptist Minister). American Constitution is an extension of various Church Constitutions. The Colonies already had all institutions of Freedom in place after the historical and historic First Great Awakening. No other people EVER in the annals of history did or could have ever come up with any such ideas. The Magna Carta (of “We the Nobles”), the Mayflower Compact and the Puritan Mission Statement to American Indians come close. Ignorance coupled with willful disrespect for one’s heritage as facilitated on the WAMP-erial campuses is a sure path to victory for Socialist-Marxist-Progressive PAGANISM of the types of Nordic pagan Hitler, Slavic pagan Stalin, Caucasian pagan Mussolini etc., or of the type of Celtic pagan French anarchists. https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/ americas-dangerous-historical- ignorance/
Philip Benjamin~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:11 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Allah: the One and Only Deity
>> From the Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 7 page 792:
"The son of God is omniscient and omnipotent knowing history in advance and being able to control its course”.> The Pope Jean-Paul 2 made explicit that all statement of that kind are parabola and should never been taken literally.That's the exact same excuse Trump suporters use when they to try to explain away his many many lies.> Of course, that is debated by some catholic, bu I have still never met a christian who believe in the anything as naive.
You sure have not met many Christians! I have never met a Christian who didn't believe something exactly that naive. I concede there are a few that have abandoned the idea of Christianity but not the ASCII sequence C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-i- t-y, although I have not personally met them.
> You might read the book by Jean Trouillard or Paul Valadier. You might change your mind on this, but perhaps you don’t want to change your mind.I don't want to read their books because I see little point in reading a book written by someone who knows even less about how the world really works than I do. Life is too short to read every book ever written so one must use judgement and be selective.John K Clark
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Because B lies all the more to try to get elected?
Darwin bless us all!
About every century there is a tendency for more sociopathic disordered or malignant narcissists, such as t'Rump *-- see below for more, to assume power. Last century this occurred with the rise of communism in Russia and fascism in western Europe. The century before beginning with the end of the 18th century had Jacobins having fun chopping heads in Paris which culminated in Napoleon. There have been about every century a flare up of these, and the 17th century saw all sorts of collective insanity with the 30 Years War, the Huguenot war, the English Civil War and so forth. Based on the general time table, we are coming due for the next grand episode of chaos. And just as the Grateful Dead song Hell in a Bucket puts it the snakes come marching in --- and sure enough here they come. We may be heading into a doozie this time, as we have the nuclear explosive power to unleash several thousand WWII's. It looks to me that the United States as the leader in the world is now the leader in the coming next mass insanity.
Look it up, but there is an interview by Barbara Walters of Donald t'Rump where the camera makes views of his office walls. These wall are covered with portraits of himself. Donald t'Rump sees himself as the most brilliant of people, when a professor at his Alma mater called him "the dumbest goddammed student he ever knew." Danald t'Rump is way past the point of the Dunning Kruger effect. He is also clearly narcissistic and has also been investigated by SNY Attorney General for laundering money going back decades. He is a man who serves the criminal world by laundering its money through illicit real estate transactions.
For decades now anything liberal has been repeatedly labelled as almost satanic. The messages of this have been thumping people for decades and now we are at a point where if you do have some liberality of mind you now find yourself contemplating leaving the country. Of course the problem is this is infectious and a number of other nations are into this. Also there is the rise of fascist parties, and in the US we are seeing the rise of far extremists such as neo-Nazis. I see lots of people who have drunk the koolaid of this shit, and it is growing in popularity. On the other hand maybe I should just give this a shrug. I really question whether humanity is going to exist past a half century or so. So whiskey tango foxtrot, maybe if we are all going to die why not let the psychopaths and their idiot followers just blow it all up, rather than going out in a whimper?
I think the labels "fascist" or "liberal" of A. and B. are distortions. There are lots of con-artists, blowhards, cultured and/or intellectual people that have neither of those prejudicial labels. .... I don't identify as either...
Cheers! HowardM
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> I think the labels "fascist" or "liberal" of A. and B. are distortions.
> Name a single progressive law passed when there was a Republican president and Republican House and Senate since 1932.
> The equivalency between the two parties is often drawn with the fact they both take corporate campaign donations.
> Of course we all know that tariffs are a terrible way to cure trade imbalances,
> but with t'Rump his 6th grade understanding of the world says otherwise,
> The wealth gaps and the exponential growth in the power of billionaires, while the average middle class or "petite bourgeoisie" person is falling into at best income stagnation or decline, are a recipe for future chaos.
> The Democrats seem eager to lose another, and for all we know it might be the last, presidential election
Darwin bless us all!
So, you don't feel that the democrats are funded by billionaires as well and do the billionaires bidding?
> Do you think that democrats are the party of the 'little guy," or the US middle class?
>Yes indeed, but it is still rule by rich Rogues whether the Koch's or Georgy Soros.
> Banks were declared too big to fail, under Bush 43, and happy Obama continued their funding, if you remember?
> There are hardly any, billionaire good guys,
> which is why the globalist crap has been pushed by both parties,
> For a health care plan that beats UK style ones [...]
> Well, to tell the world that Most Americans do not have insurance coverage would be one of the democrat lies.
> As far as Gates goes, for the richest dude on earth (sometimes) he doesn't give jack,
> The equivalency between the two parties is often drawn with the fact they both take corporate campaign donations.I don't mind that so much, governments have caused vastly more misery in the world than governments, that's why I became a libertarian.
Well Krupp Steel and the other German industrialists "believed," they could control dolf, via the money supply. They, in 1929, as I recall, founded the a. hitler fund, to finance his career. When the 1929 stock market crash happened, and set of the depression, which under Hoover and Rooselvelt's public polices became the Great Depression. dolf was in like Flynn. Hoover's signing of Smoot-Hawley, as the late senator and historian Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, was the road that led to WW2, Hiroshima, and Auschwitz.
Nobody here cares for propaganda that one dimensional. I want the professional adult kind of propaganda. For a nanosecond, German press parses things like this, excuse the awkward formulation due to half-assed translation:
A meeting of far right nationalists from France, Netherlands, Germany, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Austria, Flanders, Denmark, Estonia etc. took place in Italy. Eleven parties from the old world got together to organize their super-caucus before the recent European elections, proclaiming themselves to be “the real Europeans” preparing to enter a parliament they despise. Stage in Milan, Puccini victory aria of the sun rising and “Vinceró!”, without a hint of the turbulence and drama from Vienna, where the fall of the now world famous vice chancellor, through a video with unclear source, brought the entire government to its knees.
They all pretended “nothing happened” even though they knew the opposite. We’re not talking miscellaneous govt. officials passing themselves Nazi gifs on their messaging apps on Adolph’s Birthday; the tape implicated highest levels of govt. exposing the precarious state of Austrian politics because its viewing sets up fundamental questions: are these guys trustworthy to the degree that they should be managing state-level business/affairs… Is Austria just some special case, as the right will have us believe, or is this representative of how the right exists and operates internationally… with an extremely relaxed view on how parties are funded, relaxed relations to foreign sources of income, carefree relations to branches of justice and pretty lenient and liberal in representing truth.
Talk about the rule of law… And we seen some sick stuff but that vice chancellor tripping balls in Ibiza… how pro gangsta his moves were. If we were directing the scene, we’d tell our subject to tone down his performance/level of detail/the hard sell a bit, as nobody’s gonna believe the thing.
Then the usual battle for interpretation took its course, supporters downplaying the thing and opponents going “nope! That’s what this is.” Particularly the oh so patriotic new avant-garde apparently has no problem conspiring with foreign interests and selling their country’s political wares to get funded by dubious, nebulous types, and have their agendas dictated to them. They think this is the game and how it is won. Suddenly the conspiracy guys railing against and mucking with the system… are themselves the corrupt elite.
Of course, our naive interpretation here is spun as “creating fake pseudo scandal liberal bullshit” and “that’s internal Austrian affairs. Isolated case.” There is vulnerability here, because the German right wing is fighting allegations of breaking campaign finance laws. Plus the video reignites the whole Russian connection narrative. Another constant with the nouveau right in Europe. A Russian ministerial document for example, that classifies a member of the German Bundestag wing of these guys as a “member under absolute control”. Intel guys mumbling stuff about Russian strategy changes with less focus on setting agendas through their own channels and media with increased focus on controlling individual targets with estimates ranging to about a dozen trojans. And of course the guys in question claim defamation and no ties to Russia.
But they enjoy traveling there apparently, and find journalistic inquiries as to who picks up the checks where and why “petty”. Checking out Marine’s French version of the Milan meeting in 2014 in Lyon reveals yet again the presence of Russian delegates/influence. Two years after that they applied for 3 million Euro loan from Moskau but no clear evidence of receipt although there are further clues that she could’ve traded that cash for legitimizing Krim annexation; basically shutting her trap on it. SMS stuff from Kreml officials “Marine did not disappoint expectations” and “we’re gonna have to thank the French one way or another”.
Same with Brexit master Farage: investigations of receiving convoluted payments from Russia. Destabilization of Europe is in Russian interest too. Connection to the Italian right’s, Salvini’s insistence on discontinuing the “useless if not harmful sanctions against Russia”. Does the Greek right wing with its discourse around “natural alliances between Greece and Russia” understand what they’re getting into? Isn’t Putin another clean, strong gentleman that is the only check against the weak pussification of an amoral and decadent Europe? Conspiracy seems like a tall order but Guy Verhofstadt is stating openly: right wing conspiracy to disintegrate EU with Kreml/Oligarch support.
The unanimity mechanism of the European council is being glitched as veto-right of populists. EU can’t criticize moving US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem as a diplomatic mistake because Hungary blocked with Orban, effectively becoming cartoon hair’s bitch in Brussels. And cartoon hair praises his buddy Orban for doing “great work” and “being respected by the whole of Europe” in the White House a few days ago.
Europe folks see this a bit differently: nobody here respects Orban, internal affairs and judicial branches of his govt. betray our values: he’s another entry point for all folks that want to divide Europe. Not just US or Russian interests… increasingly China wants EU single market control to be part of their geopolitical strategy. The entry points keep multiplying. All Europe has as possible moves are sanction type instruments.
Merkel “Nationalism is the enemy of the European project. Part of this is rooted in financial corruption/influence of politics.” The Scandinavians are not immune or unaffected: “Swedendemocrats” got 17,5 % of the vote last year. Similar figures achieved by the “real Finnland”. In Estonia the right wing folks jumped from 8,1% to 17,8% this March. They still have to reach genuine majorities but in France they could become the largest party of the country. It’s getting harder and harder in the EU to build stable coalitions of moderates.
Their communications/media approaches are too powerful. Established political networks look old, stale, and rigid. The parallel to the 1930s where Nazi’s leveraged the power of video in expert fashion by broadcasting Olympic games 1936 is evident. The allegedly potent left fake news is non-existent digitally, while the right is hitting it out of the park on social media. Left propaganda, lol. A guy like Salvini has 3,7 Million followers on facebook. That’s Pop-Star level. Salvini is - as a single person platform - one of the largest mass media outlets in Italy, with the enormous advantage that him and his world view constitute the only voice, naturally free from dissent. Fighting political correctness. Defeating the lies.
Fallen Austrian vice chancellor has 780.000 followers with teams pushing peoples’ buttons in good cop bad cop manner: celebrating mother’s day, childrens’ birthdays, Kiss and heart emojis mixed with healthy doses of evil asylum seekers, their sexual crimes, migrants that should leave etc. Those things aren’t just read and liked: they are propagated and spread with lighting speed.
Same with Marine, 1,5 Million followers and Orban 657000 followers. Even if you see these numbers as fake currency, you have to concede that corrupt folks everywhere hold the prize of “message control”. The unfiltered and unchecked spread of self-serving propaganda.
The more folks follow politicians and ideologues on social media, the more independent they become from the traditional fact checking mechanisms of investigative journalism, itself also at stake. Less dissent on their voices. Even when they get progressives angry… this just raises clicks and their popularity further. And in the attention binding business of the digital world, this is currency. People prefer watching videos than reading essays.
The anger these folks are channeling has legitimate causes. Conspiracy charges against technocrats of the EU, always having to play second fiddle to economic powerhouses of the centre and the north, the ideal breeding ground to nourish hate dreams of destruction of the nation, traditions, religion, gay marriage couples adopting kids, Muslims from Africa: all the fault of Brussel liberal elites. Same old song. Kaczynski speaks like this, so does Orban and his Fidesz. Estonia, Bulgaria, Rumania, Czech Republic, Slovakia.
The ridiculous thing about it is: none of these guys want to leave the Union!! Some of the data indicates that folks mistrust their own elites more than they mistrust Brussels! There are economic reasons: European structural and investment funds: between 2004 and 2020, the new Union members received 365 billion Euros. Corrupt regions became growth regions with infrastructure, Universities, Hospitals, government buildings, Internet, with Brussels helping to stabilize bureaucracies, civic structures, and justice branches. Modernization. Naturally, without equal distribution but stats show general living standards rose in those countries. So there isn’t an “objective reason” in Warsaw, Budapest, or Ljubljana to be against the EU. There are only the subjective kinds of reasons, like what spud peddles here. Feelings.
Those countries know they have the EU to thank but they don’t feel at home. Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia: about 20 million of them have left their home countries for better lives in central Europe. A generation of eastern Europeans have come to experience the centre as maids, low wage earners in agriculture, construction etc. of the “rich” centre. They feel left behind. Wind in the sails of right wingers.They’re sick and tired of western imitation, so the clean guys that will “mix it up” and “show the politically correct assholes” have sudden appeal. Inferiority complexes turn into aggression. The discourse in Warsaw that “we got everything we could out of the EU and now we’re left only with annoying things like bullshit environmental duties, gay rights, migration quotas, along with tedious brokering of compromises in democracy.
So by the time the refugee crises hits in 2015, with Germany helplessly trying to get a distribution quota system going, the eastern Europeans’ discourse sounds like “We survived systemic change, national sovereignty changes, we lost old jobs, we changed, changed everything… and yet haven’t caught up with the damned west! And now, we’re being asked to take care of folks even weaker than ourselves? You guys are joking right?”
In Brussels, this kind of thinking leads to hardheadedness that tends towards self-disenfranchisement of the countries in question. Nationalism and solo unilateral shit don’t fare too well and lead to … nothing. Poland and Hungary tend to marginalize themselves, run from the complex topics, kick and scream to no avail instead of pursuing national interests or those of other nations. Vicious circle: nationalist governments feel increasingly alienated in Brussels, leading to increased alienation towards EU at home. The Brussel elites and their technocratic nightmare are at fault, of course. The right used to use parliament as a stage to show their constituents how funny it is to muck with political correctness. But Marine changed most remarkably.
Realizing that Frexit was no way forward “Vive l’Europe, la vraie” after being obliterated in a TV debate against Macron, she wants a right wing dream team for “real Europe”. The idea of a “genuine Europe” has no substance, so for now it looks as though disputes will not be avoidable. German AFD and Italy’s Lega are lightyears away from each other programmatically, when it comes to finance. About as far apart as centrists and the far left. Civil-, family-, gender wise there are obstacles to Marine’s dream: Polish PiS or Hungarian Fidesz are ideologically too far apart from right wing in France. But they pursue the dream anyway inside- and outside of parliament’s doors. A super caucus in parliament means more visibility, more power, and more money.
EU and its parliament are the treasure chest for Marine. They always have been. Marine and Co. were close to bankruptcy many times and every time EU bailed them out. We don’t think they’d exist without the EU. No groups as brazen as them over here. EU parliament alleges that Marine and 16 party members paid for parliamentary assistants between 2009 and 2017, that were really working for her party instead: bodyguards etc. and around 7 million Euros. All we manage is a personal fine of 300k against her. The smallest caucus, Marine’s, apparently needed 234 bottles of Champagne in 2016, along with 400 Euro meals… another 500k. These funds are distributed for office, administrative costs, education/training to parliamentarians.
Another constant: the immunity of our clean heroes to scandals. What their opponents can’t understand: the support doesn’t exist despite the scandals, the support comes because of them. They thrive on the public vulgarity, the mess produced in capitals/politics as figures that break the tyrannical consensuses of alleged economic and political elites. Even if they don’t succeed on any level, at least there is Schadenfreude for what they fuck with. This is universally relatable.
The lack of vision is not a problem. 66 Million Brits are better off behind some fences, staying amongst themselves, perfecting traditions and folkish wisdoms. But as cartoonish as this seems… really? Orban and Co. just stumble from one set of dependencies and evil elites into larger ones: Russians, US, Chinese all waiting to pick up weaknesses and exploit them.
> I suppose the distinction between a capitalist system is the corporations own the government, while in a socialist or communist system the government own the corporations.
> I could go further, including why I am not a libertarian. I pondered that nonsense years ago. The problem is that market systems are just not stable.
> They can collapse, and do so rather spontaneously. These can drag lots of people into misery and death. Even if you had a libertarian system without government,
> I can also say that I am not a lot of things that end in "ism" "ian" "anity" and so forth. These ideological scripts are to me largely nonsense.
> I do vote in most elections, even the minor ones,
> but I largely do not so much vote for certain candidates, but against certain candidates.
If we were starting from scratch I would suggest Anarcho-Capitalism, I think it would be far superior to democracy, but unfortunately we are not starting from scratch and so it would be very difficult to get there from here; but don't let the word "anarchy" scare you, it just means lack of government. Chaos necessarily implies anarchy but anarchy does not necessarily imply chaos.
> Capitalism assumes that one can own things, especially money. But without government to adjudicate and enforce claims of ownership, you couldn't own any more than you could carry on your back at a dead run.
> Most of the rich people in the U.S. are rich in virtue of owning stuff, not making stuff.
> Even if a completely libertarian system were established, the corporations, banks and those at their top would pretty quickly go about forming a government to provide a platform, a coherent set of laws etc in which they could effectively conduct their commerce. Of course it would be purely plutocratic, which in ways is not terribly different from what we currently have,
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 7:56 AM Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:> Even if a completely libertarian system were established, the corporations, banks and those at their top would pretty quickly go about forming a government to provide a platform, a coherent set of laws etc in which they could effectively conduct their commerce. Of course it would be purely plutocratic, which in ways is not terribly different from what we currently have,In todays world people have no choice where they get their police protection from, they must purchase it from the government through taxes. If the police worked for profit making corporations and every person could choose which corporation to buy police protection from please explain to me how 40 million Germans could murder 6 million Jews.
And Yes there would be disagreements between different police agencies following different laws, but I explained in my previous post how that could be resolved. Mostly.
John K Clark
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>> If the police worked for profit making corporations and every person could choose which corporation to buy police protection from please explain to me how 40 million Germans could murder 6 million Jews.Private police organizations would have every incentive to merge and form monopolies,
> there is no simple solution, no silver bullet.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:52 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:>> If the police worked for profit making corporations and every person could choose which corporation to buy police protection from please explain to me how 40 million Germans could murder 6 million Jews.Private police organizations would have every incentive to merge and form monopolies,Why would if be financially beneficial for a Private Protection Agency (PPA) that was being payed by 6 million Jews to merge with a PPA that was being payed by 40 million Germans that want to murder them? A Jew would be willing to pay whatever it took, up to and including his entire net worth, to keep from getting murdered, but I doubt if even the most rabid anti semite would pay more than 1 or 2% to murder a Jew. In anrcho-libertarianism you can have much more influence with things that are REALLY important to you than just one man one vote.
> there is no simple solution, no silver bullet.I agree, what I have just said is of little practical use. Yes that would be the way to go if we were starting from scratch but we are not and there is virtually no chance of getting there before a technological singularity occurs. I always knew I'd have to modify my libertarian views someday but AI has been advancing faster than I expected so I had to make the modification sooner than I expected. We must make the best of the institutions that already exist, like government, and try to push it in the right direction.
But Trump is pushing the government in the opposite direction that is needed.
John K Clark
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> I have read a version of this argument first in "The Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman, and I found it quite compelling.
> Consider the "war on drugs". I think we might agree that it is a collossal failure,
> that not only did not stop drug traffic, but it contributed to make street drugs more dangerous and destroyed countless lives with prison sentences for victimless crimes.
> And yet, we can't seem to get rid of those laws. Who is lobbying for such laws to stay in the books? Private prisions, pharmaceutical companies and police sindicates.
> Trump is Putin, but with a much lower IQ.
On 5 Jun 2019, at 15:52, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, at 15:16, John Clark wrote:On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 7:56 AM Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:> Even if a completely libertarian system were established, the corporations, banks and those at their top would pretty quickly go about forming a government to provide a platform, a coherent set of laws etc in which they could effectively conduct their commerce. Of course it would be purely plutocratic, which in ways is not terribly different from what we currently have,In todays world people have no choice where they get their police protection from, they must purchase it from the government through taxes. If the police worked for profit making corporations and every person could choose which corporation to buy police protection from please explain to me how 40 million Germans could murder 6 million Jews.Private police organizations would have every incentive to merge and form monopolies, like corporations always try to do. Then suppose you are on the wrong side of such a monopoly...And Yes there would be disagreements between different police agencies following different laws, but I explained in my previous post how that could be resolved. Mostly.Corporations are AIs. In fact, they are AIs driven by a very simple utility function: profit maximization. Left to their own devices, they become an instance of Bostrom's "paperclip maximizer". We already see week versions of this taking shape, for example:- Amazon warehouse workers peeing in bottles during their 12-hour shifts, so that some more plastic crap from China that nobody really needs can be delivered as quickly as possible, while we deplete fossil fuel reserves and destroy our own environment;- Google and Facebook employ some of the brightest minds of our generation to figure out ways to exploit loopholes in our brain, that we are not evolved to defend again (known as supernormal stimulus), so that we collectively waste the maximum amount of our time trapped in absurdist Skinner boxes clicking on ads, so that we develop a strong enough desire to buy said crap from China. Turns out that some of the most effective supernormal stimulus also lead to Trump and Brexit, risking the destruction of institutions that took centuries to develop. In the case of the EU, flawed as it may be, it is a miracle that it was even possible, and it led to the longest period of peace in the entire History of the European continent.Then there is the small issue of preferential attachment (aka "rich-get-richer" or Matthew effect), inexorably leading to a world where there is only one corporation that owns everything, and the rest of us are its slaves. Of course, we have been there before, and at some point heads start rolling, and back to square one we go.If something is to be learned from the XX century, is that there is no simple solution, no silver bullet. There is only one answer: education and a constant struggle for justice and freedom, always with new challenges. The more educated people are, the more they are capable of making informed and rational choices when they vote. Education and fundamental science are not possible in a world where the utility function is pure profit.
Telmo.John K Clark
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On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, at 16:32, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:52 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:
>> If the police worked for profit making corporations and every person could choose which corporation to buy police protection from please explain to me how 40 million Germans could murder 6 million Jews.
Private police organizations would have every incentive to merge and form monopolies,
Why would if be financially beneficial for a Private Protection Agency (PPA) that was being payed by 6 million Jews to merge with a PPA that was being payed by 40 million Germans that want to murder them? A Jew would be willing to pay whatever it took, up to and including his entire net worth, to keep from getting murdered, but I doubt if even the most rabid anti semite would pay more than 1 or 2% to murder a Jew.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 7:56 AM Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Even if a completely libertarian system were established, the corporations, banks and those at their top would pretty quickly go about forming a government to provide a platform, a coherent set of laws etc in which they could effectively conduct their commerce. Of course it would be purely plutocratic, which in ways is not terribly different from what we currently have,
In todays world people have no choice where they get their police protection from, they must purchase it from the government through taxes. If the police worked for profit making corporations and every person could choose which corporation to buy police protection from please explain to me how 40 million Germans could murder 6 million Jews.
And Yes there would be disagreements between different police agencies following different laws, but I explained in my previous post how that could be resolved. Mostly.
> But nobody paid him to become a rabid anti-semite.
> there are lots of people who will murder jews for free.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 4:35 PM 'Brent Meeker' <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> But nobody paid him to become a rabid anti-semite.
Historically very few anti Semites, even even rabid anti Semites, kill Jews or pay someone to kill Jews for them unless they are part of a government.
> there are lots of people who will murder jews for free.
There are some but not "lots", and if we're discussing the relative merits of various political systems it's irrelevant because psychos will exist in in all of them; the question is what system best protect us from them. And I just don't see any scenario under anrcho-libertarianism were it would be possible for 40 million Germans to murder 6 million Jews.
>Do you call ISIS and Hezbollah governments?
> Of course under almost all governments it is illegal to kill any citizen for pay.
> I don't think anarcho-libertarians are, on average, more immune to racist, populist fear-mongering that other people.
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 8:15 PM 'Brent Meeker' <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>Do you call ISIS and Hezbollah governments?
They make laws, force people to pay taxes ,conscript them into their army. and give people no choice. It sure sounds like a government to me.
> Of course under almost all governments it is illegal to kill any citizen for pay.
Solderers are payed by the government and so are the police, and they have both been known to kill people, sometimes on a industrial scale..
> I don't think anarcho-libertarians are, on average, more immune to racist, populist fear-mongering that other people.
I don't either but the morality of anarcho-libertarians has nothing to do with it. There will be a Private Protection Agency protecting Jews and if there is another one that is trying to kill them then the employees of both agencies will have very dangerous jobs and both will expect to be very well payed .
I maintain that the agency protecting the Jews will be much better payed (and thus it will attract the most skilled warriors) and also they will be.much better equipped than the agency that would like to kill them because the 6 million Jews would be willing to spend everything they have if needed for protection while the 40 million Germans would not.be willing to spend everything they had on destruction.
Another good thing is that when its clear that the soldiers on both sides are just fighting for money then all the current crap associated with war, like glory duty and heroism , would be diminished and the job of soldiering would seem no more glorious than being a hedge fund manager on Wall Street.
>> There will be a Private Protection Agency protecting Jews and if there is another one that is trying to kill them then the employees of both agencies will have very dangerous jobs and both will expect to be very well payed .
> Those are called armies. So why didn't the Jews have an army?
> What you're suggesting is every man for himself.
> That's my main criticism of libertarianism...it assumes people are just motivated by money. Money's only one form of power. German soldiers were not especially well paid by the Nazis.
> Did Osama pay the 9/11 guys well?
> I'm reminded of Bruno's theory that everything is computation...and so everything must be explainable in terms of computation.
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> There will be a Private Protection Agency protecting Jews and if there is another one that is trying to kill them then the employees of both agencies will have very dangerous jobs and both will expect to be very well payed .
> Those are called armies. So why didn't the Jews have an army?The Jews didn't have an army to protect them because of government, a government that was powerful enough to enforce its decrees, such as there can only be one army and they were the only one that could conscript men into it, and the only one that could make laws, and the only one that could collect taxers to pay for the army.
> What you're suggesting is every man for himself.
No, I'm just suggesting if we were starting from scratch it would be better if the group one belong to was not forced and was based on more than just geographical location. I'm suggesting it would be better if people had some choice about which set of laws they would obey. Obviously the laws can't be tailor made specifically for just one individual like your "every man for himself" straw man, that would never work, but it's weird people worry so much about corporate monopolies but are oblivious to the largest monopoly of them all, the government.
And if you took all the evil every corporation has ever done and concentrated it into one spot it would amount to little more than rudeness compared to the horrors committed by government;
yes Facebook may not have treated the private information of its users with enough respect but at least it didn't stick them into ovens.
I'm suggesting it would have been nice of the Jews had been given some choice. In 1933 if the Nazis didn't have a monopoly on making laws collecting taxes conscripting men and forming armies I'm sure the 6 million Jews would have chosen a Private Protection Agency that enforced a law that said you can't murder Jews. Unfortunatly the Jews couldn't do that in 1933 due to the government monopoly.
> That's my main criticism of libertarianism...it assumes people are just motivated by money. Money's only one form of power. German soldiers were not especially well paid by the Nazis.True, they were payed little and yet Nazi soldiers fought with great bravery. Why? One reason is they'd be shot if they didn't. Another reason is that among all the other monopolies the Nazis also had a monopoly on education and the distribution of information and could therefore indoctrinate the population with crap like the importance of the Fatherland, and total obedience, and sacrifice, and courage, and martial glory.
> Did Osama pay the 9/11 guys well?
Yes, he promised they would each get payed 77 virgins after they performed that little task, and being religious, they fell for it.
> I'm reminded of Bruno's theory that everything is computation...and so everything must be explainable in terms of computation.
That's not the fundamental problem with Bruno's theory, it's the idea a pure number can make a calculation.
John K Clark
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>> The Jews didn't have an army to protect them because of government, a government that was powerful enough to enforce its decrees, such as there can only be one army and they were the only one that could conscript men into it, and the only one that could make laws, and the only one that could collect taxers to pay for the army.
> And why would it be any different if the Nazi PPA decided to collect taxes from the Jews?
> As long as they live together in the same area they will have to have a lot of the same laws.
> They worry more about corporate monopolies because (1) There are not the checks and balances of our government.
> (2) Big corporations wield more economic power and influence than many nation states,
> they are narrowly focused on making money.
>>if you took all the evil every corporation has ever done and concentrated it into one spot it would amount to little more than rudeness compared to the horrors committed by government;
> You're ignoring the role that corporations have played in supporting those governments.
> Mussolini said that fascism would be better called corporatism because it was the merging of corporate and state power.
> Ligget and Meyers gave people lung cancer.
> But the Jewish PPA might have decided that it was really a good thing to kill Palestinians and take their land.
> hatred of Jews, which went back at least to Martin Luther, waaay before Hitler. Before Germany was even a country.
I'm reminded of Bruno's theory that everything is computation…
and so everything must be explainable in terms of computation.
Brent
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On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 5:33 PM, Lawrence Crowell<goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:
The situation is hopeless. I correspond with someone who is a communist, and have gotten into some arguments. The argument here, though the words are different, has much the same sort of thinking. Politics in general is a sort of brain infection that causes neuron to seize up when any cognitive dissonance occurs, and these neuron go into an overdrive with various output that has no bounds of actual reason or limits on what is preposterous. The ideological meme is "uber alles" and it is upheld for a fortress of words. Religion has this property.
LC
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:43:35 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 6/6/2019 3:53 PM, John Clark wrote:
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On 8 Jun 2019, at 02:32, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:The situation is hopeless. I correspond with someone who is a communist, and have gotten into some arguments. The argument here, though the words are different, has much the same sort of thinking. Politics in general is a sort of brain infection that causes neuron to seize up when any cognitive dissonance occurs, and these neuron go into an overdrive with various output that has no bounds of actual reason or limits on what is preposterous. The ideological meme is "uber alles" and it is upheld for a fortress of words. Religion has this property.
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> The situation is hopeless.
> I correspond with someone who is a communist, and have gotten into some arguments.
> Politics in general is a sort of brain infection that causes neuron to seize up when any cognitive dissonance occurs,
We are weavers in the web that we wove. We are victims of this technological marvel called the media, which now includes the internet. Joseph Goebbels, propaganda minister for the third Reich, said that a lie repeated often enough assumes a life as a "sort of truth." The media has becomes a crap-fest of nonsense that pumps out half-truths and sometimes outright lies. With the massive dollars behind this industry liberality based on evidence, facts, and logic is simply drowned out in the huge decibel volume against it. Donald t'Rump knows this as much as Goebbels did, and t'Rump is a pure grifter and hustler.LC
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:59:21 AM UTC-5, medinuclear wrote:[Philip Benjamin]
Trump supporters? That is a phrase inappositely coined by America haters—i.e. the Fascist, Marxist, Socialist, Progressive, Liberal, Humanist PAGANS or WAMP-the-Ingrate, who hate the very foundations and founders of this Republic. Over 62 million adults, bona fide American citizens, surely KNEW that this was the last chance for America to be America!! It was a question of now or never. The truth will be out if the present Dept. of Justice has the guts to go ahead with an impartial investigation into the politico-deep state- media usurpation of the American government at all levels from the City/County and State to the Non-sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States of this Constitutional Republic of Lex Rex and not Rex Lex (http://constitution.org/sr/lexrex.htm). See Lex Rex of Samuel Rutherford (Presbyterian Minister). Also its high recommendation by the “Prince of Preacher” Spurgeon (Baptist Minister). American Constitution is an extension of various Church Constitutions. The Colonies already had all institutions of Freedom in place after the historical and historic First Great Awakening. No other people EVER in the annals of history did or could have ever come up with any such ideas. The Magna Carta (of “We the Nobles”), the Mayflower Compact and the Puritan Mission Statement to American Indians come close. Ignorance coupled with willful disrespect for one’s heritage as facilitated on the WAMP-erial campuses is a sure path to victory for Socialist-Marxist-Progressive PAGANISM of the types of Nordic pagan Hitler, Slavic pagan Stalin, Caucasian pagan Mussolini etc., or of the type of Celtic pagan French anarchists. https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/americas-dangerous-historical-ignorance/
Compare it wit https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ignorance-of-history-is-no-joke/
Philip Benjamin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 8:11 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Allah: the One and Only Deity
On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> From the Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 7 page 792:
"The son of God is omniscient and omnipotent knowing history in advance and being able to control its course”.
> The Pope Jean-Paul 2 made explicit that all statement of that kind are parabola and should never been taken literally.
That's the exact same excuse Trump suporters use when they to try to explain away his many many lies.
> Of course, that is debated by some catholic, bu I have still never met a christian who believe in the anything as naive.
You sure have not met many Christians! I have never met a Christian who didn't believe something exactly that naive. I concede there are a few that have abandoned the idea of Christianity but not the ASCII sequence C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-i-t-y, although I have not personally met them.
> You might read the book by Jean Trouillard or Paul Valadier. You might change your mind on this, but perhaps you don’t want to change your mind.
I don't want to read their books because I see little point in reading a book written by someone who knows even less about how the world really works than I do. Life is too short to read every book ever written so one must use judgement and be selective.
John K Clark
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