The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

[John Clark]

I remember back in 2016 the ridiculous brouhaha Trump disciples made over Hillary Clinton's emails and their insistence that top-secret information is sacred and should be protected with the highest security possible, so it has rankled me how indifferent they are for the ex-president to casually take hundreds if not thousands of top secret documents to his Country Club and stored them in an unsecured room next to the restaurant's kitchen. The ex-president claims that while he was still president he magically performed a Jedi Mind Trick and declassified all those documents and did so without telling another human being about it or even writing anything down, he just willed it and it was done, they were now unclassified.  But now we have the ex-president on an audio recording giving one of those documents, a letter from North Korean dictator and murderer Kim Jong-un that the ex-president had "fallen in love with", to reporter Bob Woodward saying "Don't tell anybody I gave you this. Oh it's so top-secret". I don't think this new revelation will change anybody's mind because Trump disciples care little about acts of blatant hypocrisy or lying, or even downright logical contradictions, provided of course those acts are committed by members of their own tribe and not a member of a rival tribe, but even so I found it interesting.  

Trump knew Kim’s letters were classified, says new Woodward audiobook

John K Clark

[Telmo Menezes]

I agree with you on Trump, but to be fair the brouhaha was about Hillary Clinton hosting an email server in her private residence to avoid scrutiny of her actions as a government official, and I do not think that this is ridiculous to be upset about.

Telmo

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[John Clark]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I agree with you on Trump, but to be fair the brouhaha was about Hillary Clinton hosting an email server in her private residence to avoid scrutiny of her actions as a government official,

That may have been her reason for doing it or it may not be, at the time I thought it  more likely she was just being sloppy and today I have even more reason to think so; secrets are notoriously difficult to keep so if Hillary had some deep dark secret she was trying to conceal today after six years it should've come to light and it has not.

 

> and I do not think that this is ridiculous to be upset about.

It may have been reasonable to be upset with Hillary about that but it's ridiculous that the very same people who were saying Hillary's email server was equivalent to the apocalypse in 2016 are now indifferent about the ex-president moving hundreds or thousands of top-secret documents to the pantry of the kitchen of his country club where hundreds of people without security clearances pass through every day. If Hillary committed a crime it was a ridiculously trivia one compared to the crime committed by the ex-president. It's not as if his country club is Fort Knox when it comes to Security, in 2019 a Chinese woman was arrested on the grounds of Mar-A-Lago with 5 cell phones, a hard drive, 9 USB thumb drives including one primed with malware, a gadget for detecting hidden cameras, and 2 Chinese passports; and that was when he was still president, the security is bound to be much less now that he's just an ex president.  

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

jep

[spudb...@aol.com]

Woodward and Bernstein created deep throat out of whole cloth, and then attributed it to Mark Felt. I hated Nixon, but in comparison to George McGovern, he was better. Unidentified sources which never got properly identified after 50 years put Woodward into the unreliable zone. If you trust Woodward, you are doing it out of an act of faith, JC.  Hic Transit Gloriam Liberalium. 

The dem effort against El Donaldo is very nice and as Obama mentioned a few days ago, The Trump obsession will cause pain to the progs in the next 3 weeks. I like it because we can then get Desantis as King for life. Policies matter far more than personalities, which is something the progressives will learn in 3 weeks. Moma Clinton's servers is simply the policy attributed to Stalin to Bukunin, (whom Stalin killed later) which is, "always accuse the enemy of whatever you are doing?" 

Meanwhile, lets keep both eyes on Putin + Xi. Latest is, Putin got Xi to stop selling nat gas to the EU. This is very recent news, so check it out. 

[spudb...@aol.com]

Ah, Telmo! You are too fair and balanced, seeing that none of these people are virtuous, and what matters most is, policy. I never saw Trumpo as virtuous, (laff!) but simply better at survival policies than Obama before, or Joe Joe, later. I'd say Trump, was much better than Bush 43, who if rumors are true, was much worse than even, Obama! 

By the way, Putin got Xi to stop selling methane to the EU. Thus, we need to note again, that policy beats personality. Which was never in doubt except where polemicists are concerned. 

Peace!

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[Lawrence Crowell]

This is typical of the sort of tripe I expect from you. Mark Felt admitted to being deep throat.

LC

[spudb...@aol.com]

Well, what do I expect from you? Simply, another academic despite whose brilliance he possesses, will not let that get in the path of one's sacred ideology. This happens all over the place, and if we wish to argue, let us focus on the jolly manner public universities kow tow to the CCP Confucius Institutes on campus.  Glad the CCP and PLA are not an existential threat to the US. Sheer genius by the elites, say I.

'Malign Influence': China's Cultural Institutes Under Growing Scrutiny | Barron's (barrons.com)

Mark Felt was but one 'source' used, most of which the boys at WaPo simply guessed at and made up, because we dare not, question the veracity of protected, sources. If Felt wanted to get credit for playing hero, I have no prob. If you wish for ideological nations that all must genuflect to this undeserved, trust? Um, nada. 

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Lets not forget former Congressman and now Biden team mater Eric Swallwell and his assignation with CCP spy Bang Bang, er', Fang Fang. 

Fang Fang scandal - Congressman Eric Swalwell refuses to say if he had sex with Chinese ‘spy’ as it is ‘classified’ | The Sun

So does this condemn Joey? Naw, Swallwell is just another unzipped willy in the CCP's attempt for targeting opportunities. I am pleased that Joe has been forced to deal with CCP/PLA aggression in the Pacific, despite him and his brother and son's being bribed! Good on him! Could Trump have been bribed as well???? Doubtful, but it's within the realm of possibility. Doubtful, because Trump jacked up tariffs on Chicomm goods, to the displeasure of Wall St, why Joe, dropped most tariff's.  

Joe needs to do much better on energy even if it causes climate change because as Joe said a month ago, "nuclear war with Putin, bad!" Consider this an existential thing.

Never fear John, Desantis, will be a much better President in 2024, and be a combo of Harry Truman +Eisenhauer+ John Kennedy. A true president for the 21st century. 

Or, we could just get eaten up by hungry robots? 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

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[Brent Meeker]

On 10/19/2022 5:00 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:56:57 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Woodward and Bernstein created deep throat out of whole cloth, and then attributed it to Mark Felt. I hated Nixon, but in comparison to George McGovern, he was better. Unidentified sources which never got properly identified after 50 years put Woodward into the unreliable zone. If you trust Woodward, you are doing it out of an act of faith, JC.  Hic Transit Gloriam Liberalium. 

The dem effort against El Donaldo is very nice and as Obama mentioned a few days ago, The Trump obsession will cause pain to the progs in the next 3 weeks. I like it because we can then get Desantis as King for life. Policies matter far more than personalities, which is something the progressives will learn in 3 weeks.

From a guy who consistently supports the Repugs, who didn't even bother to write any policies into their platform.  Their only policy is whatever the Mango Mussolini is selling today:  Love dictators.  Hate immigrants...steal their children.  Dismiss COVID...no masks.  Cut top level taxes... run up deficit.  Commit election fraud.  Believe Putin.  Pull out of NATO.  And above all LIE LIE LIE!

Brent

[John Clark]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 10:05 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Lets not forget former Congressman and now Biden team mater Eric Swallwell and his assignation with CCP spy Bang Bang, er', Fang Fang. 

Fang Fang scandal - Congressman Eric Swalwell refuses to say if he had sex with Chinese ‘spy’ as it is ‘classified’ | The Sun

I did not read the above link and I will tell you why, I noted it is an article from "The Sun",  one of Rupert Murdoch's tabloid rags and the man who rules the disreputable Fox News Network. It's no wonder you have such a warped worldview if that's where you get your information.  

 > Desantis, will be a much better President in 2024, and be a combo of Harry Truman +Eisenhauer+ John Kennedy.

Closer to Vladimir Putin + Xi Jinping + a Big Brother wannabe.

> A true president for the 21st century. 

Then the 21st-century will be a very dismal one.  

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

8ds

 

[John Clark]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 5:56 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Woodward and Bernstein created deep throat out of whole cloth, and then attributed it to Mark Felt.

Wow, you've served us up heaping plates of nonsense before but this is something special, this is undiluted, triple distilled, extra virgin BULLSHIT!  It's been 50 years and history has made its judgment, what Woodward and Bernstein said was almost entirely true and what Nixon said was almost entirely lies.

And for goodness sake's spud, Woodward has a recording of Trump saying in his own voice that what he is giving him is top-secret. So you're asking us to believe you and not our own ears.

> I hated Nixon, but in comparison to George McGovern, he was better.

Although there were other issues by far the principal issue of the 1972 presidential campaign was the Vietnam war, it was certainly uppermost in my mind because at the time I was of draft age and had no wish to be shipped 12,000 miles away so I could slogg through flooded rice fields while being shot at; I knew the student deferment was unfair but I did not hesitate to take advantage of it and I'm glad I did because it probably saved my life. Lyndon Johnson started that war but about a third of the deaths that occurred during it happened during the Nixon administration, and by then it was obvious to nearly everybody that the war was lost, I think it was even obvious to Nixon. George McGovern said we should end the war immediately and just get out, when asked how he responded with "in ships", and I liked that, I liked that a lot. Nixon said we shouldn't do that because it was undignified, ( and it would've been but it's always undignified when you lose a war), and because it would mean that all the American soldiers that have already died would've died for nothing, (and his solution turned out to be cause 15,000 more American soldiers dying for nothing ).  And Nixon said the main reason we shouldn't just get out is the completely discredited "Domino Theory ", the idea that if one nation in Southeast Asia went communist every nation would.  Well Vietnam did end up going communist as I think everybody in 1972 knew it would but it didn't result in worldwide communism, instead the entire USSR disintegrated about a decade later because communism is an inherently inefficient economic system and provides fertile ground for corruption. The US lost the Vietnam war but today I don't believe we would've been one bit better off if we had won it.

You say Nixon was better than McGovern, but was he 15,000 American lives better, hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese lives better, and hundreds of billions of dollars better?  

 > Policies matter far more than personalities

I don't like Trump's Anti-NATO policy. I don't like Trump's policy of trusting Vladimir Putin more than his own CIA. I don't like Trump's policy of blackmailing Ukraine. I don't like Trump's policy of lowering the taxes on the ultra mega super rich. I don't like Trump's policy of ignoring a pandemic and pretending we could just continue on as usual and insisting nothing disastrous was happening. I don't like Trump's policy of never telling the truth. I don't like Trump's policy of giving ridiculous and downright dangerous medical advice. I don't like Trump's policy of instigating a coup d'état and trying to destroy the Constitution.

Oh, and I'm not a big fan of Trump's personality either.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

edm

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Mi, 19. Okt 2022, um 18:18, schrieb John Clark:

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I agree with you on Trump, but to be fair the brouhaha was about Hillary Clinton hosting an email server in her private residence to avoid scrutiny of her actions as a government official,

That may have been her reason for doing it or it may not be, at the time I thought it  more likely she was just being sloppy and today I have even more reason to think so;

I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"? Really? Then why would she bother doing this?

secrets are notoriously difficult to keep so if Hillary had some deep dark secret she was trying to conceal today after six years it should've come to light and it has not.

 

Well, she's not a reptilian and she is not part of some weird satanic pedophilic cult related to pizza. I guess we can agree on that.

Everything pretty much came to light. It is the usual boring corruption. She was in bed with the military-industrial complex and with the banks. She serves those people at the detriment of the common person. She leveraged her government position to practice "pay for play" with powerful people. You would have to be pretty naive to not see it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639370

> and I do not think that this is ridiculous to be upset about.

It may have been reasonable to be upset with Hillary about that but it's ridiculous that the very same people who were saying Hillary's email server was equivalent to the apocalypse in 2016 are now indifferent about the ex-president moving hundreds or thousands of top-secret documents to the pantry of the kitchen of his country club where hundreds of people without security clearances pass through every day. If Hillary committed a crime it was a ridiculously trivia one compared to the crime committed by the ex-president. It's not as if his country club is Fort Knox when it comes to Security, in 2019 a Chinese woman was arrested on the grounds of Mar-A-Lago with 5 cell phones, a hard drive, 9 USB thumb drives including one primed with malware, a gadget for detecting hidden cameras, and 2 Chinese passports; and that was when he was still president, the security is bound to be much less now that he's just an ex president.  

Sure, Trump is much worse than Clinton.

I am just saying that pretending that she was ok is not a good strategy. She is a corrupt politician who works for those in power and it should come as no surprise that the common person does not like her of feel motivated to go vote for her.

It just turns out that the media likes to focus on certain things and overlook others, depending on the political tribe they serve. The media that serves the Republican electorate is batshit crazy, you will not get any dispute from me there. Do better.

Telmo

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

jep

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[John Clark]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:03 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"?

Yes.

 

> Really?

Yes really.  

> Then why would she bother doing this?

Because official government email servers are notoriously slow, cumbersome to set up , run on ancient hardware and software intend to Crash often, and are unintuitive to use. It's bizarre, I'm talking about Trump's high treason and you're talking about Hillary's email server that didn't conform to regulations.

 

>Well, she's not a reptilian and she is not part of some weird satanic pedophilic cult related to pizza. I guess we can agree on that.

I'm glad to know that you're not a member of QAnon.

 

> Everything pretty much came to light. It is the usual boring corruption. She was in bed with the military-industrial complex and with the banks. She serves those people at the detriment of the common person.

You said it yourself, on the corruption scale she's about average for a politician, not unusual and rather boring; Trump on the other hand elevates corruption to an unprecedented level, up to and including high treason. The US Constitution can easily survive a president as "corrupt" as Hillary, but I don't think it can survive another 4 years of a president as corrupt as Trump. 

 

  > She is a corrupt politician who works for those in power

You know of a politician who doesn't?  It's true, Hillary wasn't perfect, welcome to the real world.

> Sure, Trump is much worse than Clinton.

 

Then what the hell are we arguing about?

 

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

r4c

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Do, 20. Okt 2022, um 17:56, schrieb John Clark:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:03 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"?

Yes.

 

> Really?

Yes really.  

> Then why would she bother doing this?

Because official government email servers are notoriously slow, cumbersome to set up , run on ancient hardware and software intend to Crash often, and are unintuitive to use. It's bizarre, I'm talking about Trump's high treason and you're talking about Hillary's email server that didn't conform to regulations.

Well the emails that did not conform to regulations contained some details from the BBC article that you neglected to address. I will leave a few here.

"According to the latest leaked emails, Mrs Clinton told a Goldman Sachs conference she would like to intervene secretly in Syria.

She made the remark in answer to a question from Lloyd Blankfein, the bank's chief executive, in 2013 months after she left office as secretary of state.

"My view was you intervene as covertly as is possible for Americans to intervene," she told employees of the bank in South Carolina, which had paid her about $225,000 to give a speech."

"In a 12-page memo written by Doug Band, a longtime aide to Bill Clinton, he describes using his consulting firm to raise money for the Clinton Global Initiative as well as direct personal income for the former president.

Mr Band rallied clients of his firm, Teneo, to contribute directly to Mr Clinton for "in-kind services for the President and his family - for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like" referring to that fund as "Bill Clinton Inc".

Several companies directly paid the former president for his speeches or advice, as well as making contributions to the Clinton Global Initiative. Republicans have criticised this, saying it allowed corporations to pay for access to the former president.

One client, Coca Cola, received a face-to-face meeting with the former president at his home in 2009, after contributing millions to the non-profit foundation."

"The Clinton campaign tried to reschedule the Illinois presidential primary to a month later, so as to make it less likely that a moderate Republican would get a boost following the Super Tuesday primaries.

"The Clintons won't forget what their friends have done for them," future Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook wrote in the November 2014 email to Mr Podesta."

> Sure, Trump is much worse than Clinton.

 

Then what the hell are we arguing about?

 

We are arguing about the fact that if you insist of giving people a choice between a turd sandwich and an even bigger turd sandwich that the establishment also does not like, you shouldn't be terribly surprised if they pick the latter just to spite you.

Telmo

[Brent Meeker]

On 10/20/2022 8:03 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Am Mi, 19. Okt 2022, um 18:18, schrieb John Clark:

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:31 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I agree with you on Trump, but to be fair the brouhaha was about Hillary Clinton hosting an email server in her private residence to avoid scrutiny of her actions as a government official,

That may have been her reason for doing it or it may not be, at the time I thought it  more likely she was just being sloppy and today I have even more reason to think so;

I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"? Really? Then why would she bother doing this?

There is much more communication that is not classified than classified.  To communicate classified information you have to go to a special shielded room and use an encrypted link.  I worked for the U.S. Navy for 54yrs with a top secret clearance and I used the classified link only a half-dozen times.  Everybody finds it inconvenient (it was in a different building from where I worked).  So everybody "talks around" classified material in ordinary email. 
And they sometimes transmit parts of classified documents which aren't the thing that makes it classified...they think.  That's what caught Hillary out. 

Brent

secrets are notoriously difficult to keep so if Hillary had some deep dark secret she was trying to conceal today after six years it should've come to light and it has not.

 

Well, she's not a reptilian and she is not part of some weird satanic pedophilic cult related to pizza. I guess we can agree on that.

Everything pretty much came to light. It is the usual boring corruption. She was in bed with the military-industrial complex and with the banks. She serves those people at the detriment of the common person. She leveraged her government position to practice "pay for play" with powerful people. You would have to be pretty naive to not see it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639370

> and I do not think that this is ridiculous to be upset about.

It may have been reasonable to be upset with Hillary about that but it's ridiculous that the very same people who were saying Hillary's email server was equivalent to the apocalypse in 2016 are now indifferent about the ex-president moving hundreds or thousands of top-secret documents to the pantry of the kitchen of his country club where hundreds of people without security clearances pass through every day. If Hillary committed a crime it was a ridiculously trivia one compared to the crime committed by the ex-president. It's not as if his country club is Fort Knox when it comes to Security, in 2019 a Chinese woman was arrested on the grounds of Mar-A-Lago with 5 cell phones, a hard drive, 9 USB thumb drives including one primed with malware, a gadget for detecting hidden cameras, and 2 Chinese passports; and that was when he was still president, the security is bound to be much less now that he's just an ex president.  

Sure, Trump is much worse than Clinton.

I am just saying that pretending that she was ok is not a good strategy. She is a corrupt politician who works for those in power and it should come as no surprise that the common person does not like her of feel motivated to go vote for her.

It just turns out that the media likes to focus on certain things and overlook others, depending on the political tribe they serve. The media that serves the Republican electorate is batshit crazy, you will not get any dispute from me there. Do better.

Telmo

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

jep

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[Brent Meeker]

On 10/20/2022 9:29 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Am Do, 20. Okt 2022, um 17:56, schrieb John Clark:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:03 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"?

Yes.

 

> Really?

Yes really.  

> Then why would she bother doing this?

Because official government email servers are notoriously slow, cumbersome to set up , run on ancient hardware and software intend to Crash often, and are unintuitive to use. It's bizarre, I'm talking about Trump's high treason and you're talking about Hillary's email server that didn't conform to regulations.

Well the emails that did not conform to regulations contained some details from the BBC article that you neglected to address. I will leave a few here.

"According to the latest leaked emails, Mrs Clinton told a Goldman Sachs conference she would like to intervene secretly in Syria.

She made the remark in answer to a question from Lloyd Blankfein, the bank's chief executive, in 2013 months after she left office as secretary of state.

"My view was you intervene as covertly as is possible for Americans to intervene," she told employees of the bank in South Carolina, which had paid her about $225,000 to give a speech."

"In a 12-page memo written by Doug Band, a longtime aide to Bill Clinton, he describes using his consulting firm to raise money for the Clinton Global Initiative as well as direct personal income for the former president.

Mr Band rallied clients of his firm, Teneo, to contribute directly to Mr Clinton for "in-kind services for the President and his family - for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like" referring to that fund as "Bill Clinton Inc".

Several companies directly paid the former president for his speeches or advice, as well as making contributions to the Clinton Global Initiative. Republicans have criticised this, saying it allowed corporations to pay for access to the former president.

One client, Coca Cola, received a face-to-face meeting with the former president at his home in 2009, after contributing millions to the non-profit foundation."

"The Clinton campaign tried to reschedule the Illinois presidential primary to a month later, so as to make it less likely that a moderate Republican would get a boost following the Super Tuesday primaries.

"The Clintons won't forget what their friends have done for them," future Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook wrote in the November 2014 email to Mr Podesta."

I don't see anything illegal or even clearly unethical in that list.  It looks like innuendo from Fox News.  Have the Clinton's siphoned off money from their non-profit foundation for personal use?  That would not be terribly surprising, but nothing says they did.  Getting people and corporations to contribute to a foundation is commonplace and in principle benign.

Brent

> Sure, Trump is much worse than Clinton.

 

Then what the hell are we arguing about?

 

We are arguing about the fact that if you insist of giving people a choice between a turd sandwich and an even bigger turd sandwich that the establishment also does not like, you shouldn't be terribly surprised if they pick the latter just to spite you.

Telmo

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

r4c

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[Telmo Menezes]

Am Do, 20. Okt 2022, um 20:45, schrieb Brent Meeker:

On 10/20/2022 9:29 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Am Do, 20. Okt 2022, um 17:56, schrieb John Clark:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:03 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"?

Yes.

 

> Really?

Yes really.  

> Then why would she bother doing this?

Because official government email servers are notoriously slow, cumbersome to set up , run on ancient hardware and software intend to Crash often, and are unintuitive to use. It's bizarre, I'm talking about Trump's high treason and you're talking about Hillary's email server that didn't conform to regulations.

Well the emails that did not conform to regulations contained some details from the BBC article that you neglected to address. I will leave a few here.

"According to the latest leaked emails, Mrs Clinton told a Goldman Sachs conference she would like to intervene secretly in Syria.

She made the remark in answer to a question from Lloyd Blankfein, the bank's chief executive, in 2013 months after she left office as secretary of state.

"My view was you intervene as covertly as is possible for Americans to intervene," she told employees of the bank in South Carolina, which had paid her about $225,000 to give a speech."

"In a 12-page memo written by Doug Band, a longtime aide to Bill Clinton, he describes using his consulting firm to raise money for the Clinton Global Initiative as well as direct personal income for the former president.

Mr Band rallied clients of his firm, Teneo, to contribute directly to Mr Clinton for "in-kind services for the President and his family - for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like" referring to that fund as "Bill Clinton Inc".

Several companies directly paid the former president for his speeches or advice, as well as making contributions to the Clinton Global Initiative. Republicans have criticised this, saying it allowed corporations to pay for access to the former president.

One client, Coca Cola, received a face-to-face meeting with the former president at his home in 2009, after contributing millions to the non-profit foundation."

"The Clinton campaign tried to reschedule the Illinois presidential primary to a month later, so as to make it less likely that a moderate Republican would get a boost following the Super Tuesday primaries.

"The Clintons won't forget what their friends have done for them," future Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook wrote in the November 2014 email to Mr Podesta."

I don't see anything illegal or even clearly unethical in that list.  It looks like innuendo from Fox News.

It's the BBC... The British news organization with the Churchillian gravitas that you guys admire so much.

So let me get this straight: Hillary Clinton was privately briefing Goldman Sachs on an event that she was payed 225K to attend on how she was planning a war in secret that was unpopular with the public.

Now that I put it this way, this must be the most American thing that I read in weeks. Maybe you guys are right, I guess I'm too European for this (although we are the ones dealing with the humanitarian crisis that arise from your "escapades" in the Middle East).

Nevermind.

Telmo

  Have the Clinton's siphoned off money from their non-profit foundation for personal use?  That would not be terribly surprising, but nothing says they did.  Getting people and corporations to contribute to a foundation is commonplace and in principle benign.

Brent

> Sure, Trump is much worse than Clinton.

 

Then what the hell are we arguing about?

 

We are arguing about the fact that if you insist of giving people a choice between a turd sandwich and an even bigger turd sandwich that the establishment also does not like, you shouldn't be terribly surprised if they pick the latter just to spite you.

Telmo

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

r4c

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[Brent Meeker]

On 10/20/2022 1:19 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Am Do, 20. Okt 2022, um 20:45, schrieb Brent Meeker:

On 10/20/2022 9:29 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Am Do, 20. Okt 2022, um 17:56, schrieb John Clark:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:03 AM Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> wrote:

> I mean... I don't know what to tell you. You really think that the most likely explanation for her hiring someone to install an email server in her bathroom instead of using existing government infrastructure is her "being sloppy"?

Yes.

 

> Really?

Yes really.  

> Then why would she bother doing this?

Because official government email servers are notoriously slow, cumbersome to set up , run on ancient hardware and software intend to Crash often, and are unintuitive to use. It's bizarre, I'm talking about Trump's high treason and you're talking about Hillary's email server that didn't conform to regulations.

Well the emails that did not conform to regulations contained some details from the BBC article that you neglected to address. I will leave a few here.

"According to the latest leaked emails, Mrs Clinton told a Goldman Sachs conference she would like to intervene secretly in Syria.

She made the remark in answer to a question from Lloyd Blankfein, the bank's chief executive, in 2013 months after she left office as secretary of state.

"My view was you intervene as covertly as is possible for Americans to intervene," she told employees of the bank in South Carolina, which had paid her about $225,000 to give a speech."

"In a 12-page memo written by Doug Band, a longtime aide to Bill Clinton, he describes using his consulting firm to raise money for the Clinton Global Initiative as well as direct personal income for the former president.

Mr Band rallied clients of his firm, Teneo, to contribute directly to Mr Clinton for "in-kind services for the President and his family - for personal travel, hospitality, vacation and the like" referring to that fund as "Bill Clinton Inc".

Several companies directly paid the former president for his speeches or advice, as well as making contributions to the Clinton Global Initiative. Republicans have criticised this, saying it allowed corporations to pay for access to the former president.

One client, Coca Cola, received a face-to-face meeting with the former president at his home in 2009, after contributing millions to the non-profit foundation."

"The Clinton campaign tried to reschedule the Illinois presidential primary to a month later, so as to make it less likely that a moderate Republican would get a boost following the Super Tuesday primaries.

"The Clintons won't forget what their friends have done for them," future Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook wrote in the November 2014 email to Mr Podesta."

I don't see anything illegal or even clearly unethical in that list.  It looks like innuendo from Fox News.

It's the BBC... The British news organization with the Churchillian gravitas that you guys admire so much.

So let me get this straight: Hillary Clinton was privately briefing Goldman Sachs on an event that she was payed 225K to attend on how she was planning a war in secret that was unpopular with the public.

It doesn't say she was briefing Goldman Sachs on an event.  She's explaining that she would like to intervene and that U.S. intervention would be very covert.  It's not even clear that the intervention she wanted ever happened.  She says the same thing to "employees of a bank in S. Carolina".  Do you expect that nations do everything transparently and in front of TV cameras.  How could anyone conduct diplomacy that way?

Now that I put it this way, this must be the most American thing that I read in weeks. Maybe you guys are right, I guess I'm too European for this (although we are the ones dealing with the humanitarian crisis that arise from your "escapades" in the Middle East).

From your creation of "nations" in the middle east that were just lines drawn around tribes.

Brent

[Lawrence Crowell]

Spudboy is a case study in what is going wrong with so many of the American people.

LC

[spudb...@aol.com]

I agree it is dismal, but not yet because of AGW or even Desantis, but the threat of nuclear war. 

You are pre-screening your articles as most people do via Murdoch  and such. This was my point about the WaPo "propagandist," Woodward. You give him continuous credibility, while I have learned not to, because of what has come out over the years. Partially embellished, invented. 

I will go along Dennis Overbye, the science writer from NYT, but not WaPo,  Bezos' WaPo. 

Obtaining the truth, and then drawing conclusions and making decisions, should as an engineer, be what you do best. correct? Unless, like LC, you let emotion and group loyalty control your otherwise good judgement? 

Woodward is not to be relied on, even if you wish to ensure-Purely for emotional reason, that Trumpo is to be dreaded and feared, while everyone else skates, protected by the FBI & The Justice Department, specifically Hilly. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 6:06 am
Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

[spudb...@aol.com]

Telmo, Trumpy went after Assad when it was shown that he dropped barrels of poison gas on kids in his own country. This was using the old Stalinist style of warfare, as we see repeated , in today's Ukraine, and the Ayatollahs in Tehran against their women. 

Nuclear war is my fear today, not climate change, and say, if there is nuclear war between Iran and Israel, count on radioactive fallout (Not the Game Fallout) being swirled into the EU. I am not a climatologist, meteorologist, or physicist, but I would think that that exposure from such a catastrophe, would make the Chernobyl accident look like a summer day in a park. Meaning, yes to deaths from radiation poisoning from the fallout, plus mass panic. 

The leftist here in the US are committed to being against Trump, not out of policy, which is essential for survival, but for group loyalty, plus ideology. Keeping Vlad out of Europe was something Trump did better than Obama, and his successor, Joe. I give Trump credit for achieving this. The Ukraine happened on Joe's watch because of policy, and the disastrously, bad run by Joe from Afghanistan. Showed weakness, just as Obama's cowardice on the 9/11/12 crap in Libya. 

Policy means everything, and personality is what the Left here, reacts to as Pavlov's dogs reacted to meat powder. 

I liked Trump's policies and yes his personality was and is grating, but he wasn't a coward, which is why the dem's fear him. They react, but never analyze. Reason gets abandoned. 

The same is true for ideologists on the right. If Joey does something about the Ukraine against Putin, they dog him. 

Be well in any case.

Original Message-----

From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net>
To: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>; 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 4:19 pm

Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a6504977-96c2-482b-8d09-2356a271e0be%40app.fastmail.com

.

[Brent Meeker]

On 10/20/2022 3:33 PM, spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Telmo, Trumpy went after Assad when it was shown that he dropped barrels of poison gas on kids in his own country. This was using the old Stalinist style of warfare, as we see repeated , in today's Ukraine, and the Ayatollahs in Tehran against their women. 

Nuclear war is my fear today, not climate change, and say, if there is nuclear war between Iran and Israel, count on radioactive fallout (Not the Game Fallout) being swirled into the EU. I am not a climatologist, meteorologist, or physicist, but I would think that that exposure from such a catastrophe, would make the Chernobyl accident look like a summer day in a park. Meaning, yes to deaths from radiation poisoning from the fallout, plus mass panic. 

The leftist here in the US are committed to being against Trump, not out of policy, which is essential for survival, but for group loyalty, plus ideology. Keeping Vlad out of Europe was something Trump did better than Obama, and his successor, Joe. I give Trump credit for achieving this. The Ukraine happened on Joe's watch because of policy, and the disastrously, bad run by Joe from Afghanistan. Showed weakness, just as Obama's cowardice on the 9/11/12 crap in Libya. 

Policy means everything, and personality is what the Left here, reacts to as Pavlov's dogs reacted to meat powder. 

I liked Trump's policies and yes his personality was and is grating, but he wasn't a coward,

You must not have seen the video of his encounter with the eagle.  He was so cowardly he couldn't fire anybody face-to-face or even by phone.  Comey found out he was fired by seeing it on the TV news.  When he met with dictators like Putin, Xi, and Kim he just sucked up to them and wouldn't say a word contrary to their line.

Brent

[spudb...@aol.com]

The stuff I have read, and its not been the stuff of Fox, dear JC, indicates that back in the day Woodward and Bernstein came up with the most of the info out of thin air. This was when I was a solid Bill Clinton voter. You on the other hand must start asking are your sources reliable. Do you attempt to corroborate what is claimed?

For example you know I voted from Trump yes? Trump has claimed for 2+ years that he was cheated out of his 2nd term correct? Well, I ask, where's your evidence? I mean its tow years and if the courts won't hear the evidence, so why not go public? You're a rich man and can afford to present it to the public? Evidence please, and no claims. (My view entirely). 

So if I can ask rational questions, why can't democrats? Answer? Ideology. Ideology can be defined (by me) as a faith with NO God. Take very little on faith, look, as an engineer must, to logic. 

You want a better 21st century John, rely on technology over politics, Master Engineer.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>

[spudb...@aol.com]

Professor LC, you may be correct. Having said this, I cannot even discuss politics with my own sister, and her husband of many years. They will not discuss policies, so if I cannot convince them, I never assumed I could even convince you one iota, if iota was a scientific measure?

My point is we make choices, and personality be cursed. We need to decide on what policies we pursue as a nation state and a species. If your team (ideologically) wins, for example, in 3 weeks, you will be uplifted and thrilled. 

If my team wins, you will feel discouraged and despairing of your fellow primates, (I personally descend from Igoo the Rock Ape from The Herculoids). I must still have to sort policies on which of Joey's makes sense, and which I find pure idiocy? I am still a peasant, a serf. I know my place! The same of El Trumpo. 

For me, I view things existentially, and dem obsession, emotional, over Trumpy, seems insane. 

For you, if you had thought to provide your books on Kindle, I could have downloaded one and then said in full fury, as Patton said, of Rommel, "Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!" Hint Hint, if you want to sell more books, move them to Kindle. 

We now live in a very dangerous age and the American people are not used to seeing things beyond their own self interests. The dangers and catastrophe's may force us, if we survive, to change this. 

Ciao.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Well said Telmo. 

This are corrupt and perhaps murderous pols who are in the US, protected by the FBI and Justice Dept. 

Source:

FBI brass who warned Facebook about Post's Hunter Biden report were Dem donors (nypost.com)

looks accurate.

-----Original Message-----
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net>

To: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 12:29 pm
Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Oh, here is me hijacking this thread for the purposes of The Quantum!

There is a report that Entanglement supports Penrose & Hameroff's quantum brain. (recent)

What this Ireland university research reveals about our brains (msn.com)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 5:57 pm

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[spudb...@aol.com]

The democrats are ever protected by the Justice Dept and the FBI. 
Casual Evidence presented, and yes, refute it by counter example if available?

FBI Agents Association rewarded agents who took a knee in front of BLM (nypost.com)

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[Brent Meeker]

So that's how Trump got elected.  A childish "own the libs" vote.

Brent

[John Clark]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 7:21 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> The stuff I have read, and its not been the stuff of Fox, dear JC, indicates that back in the day Woodward and Bernstein came up with the most of the info out of thin air.

 

And yet nearly everything Woodward and Bernstein came up with "out of thin air" turned out to be true, how do you explain that? Do you think they had psychic ability? I didn't know even devout Trump acolytes, like the QAnon looneys, believed that what Woodward and Bernstein said was untrue, but I suppose you know more about that sort of idiocy than I do.  Do you also believe Hillary was a secret lizard person who eats babies when she's not sexually molesting them in a pizza parlor?

> For example you know I voted from Trump yes? Trump has claimed for 2+ years that he was cheated out of his 2nd term correct? Well, I ask, where's your evidence? I mean its tow years and if the courts won't hear the evidence, so why not go public? You're a rich man and can afford to present it to the public? Evidence please, and no claims.

And yet although you believe that Donald Trump tried very hard to subvert a presidential election and demand that the results of a valid  election that he lost be nullified for the first time in the 250 year history of the country,  you'd nevertheless be all in favor of handing power over to this creature again, never mind that he tried to subvert the Constitution, never mind he said if he won in 2020 he would "negotiate for a third term in 2024" because he's "entitled to it" even though such a thing would be blatantly unconstitutional. It doesn't seem to bother you one bit that this power mad man was trying to become a dictator. He failed to reach his goal, but you want to give him another chance to do so.

Trump Says He Will ‘Negotiate’ Third Term Because He’s ‘Entitled’ To It

And although you claim to be against  billionaires and for the middle class, it doesn't bother you a bit that Trump lowered taxes on the super ultra mega rich and tried to reduce medical benefits for the middle class and poor. You claim your top priority is avoiding nuclear war, and yet you'd be all in favor of making Commander In Chief of the most powerful military force in the world a man who is ignorant of world affairs because he would rather watch Fox News and American Idol than read his presidential briefing books each morning. Your political positions are hopelessly self-contradictory.    

>look, as an engineer must, to logic. 

Good advice, and I logically deduced that the horror of Hillary Clinton's email server is a pretty minor horror compared to the USA turning into a right wing banana republic that benefits only the corrupt and the super rich.  

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

eyc

edm

[John Clark]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 7:52 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I cannot even discuss politics with my own sister, and her husband of many years. They will not discuss policies, so if I cannot convince them,

One of my sisters voted for Trump in 2016 but eventually she saw Trump for what he was and voted for Biden in 2020, I tried to convince her and I'd like to take credit for the conversion but I think she made the change largely on her own. Interestingly her identical twin sister had always hated Trump as much as I do. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

83x

edm

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Fr, 21. Okt 2022, um 12:19, schrieb John Clark:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 7:52 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I cannot even discuss politics with my own sister, and her husband of many years. They will not discuss policies, so if I cannot convince them,

One of my sisters voted for Trump in 2016 but eventually she saw Trump for what he was and voted for Biden in 2020, I tried to convince her and I'd like to take credit for the conversion but I think she made the change largely on her own. Interestingly her identical twin sister had always hated Trump as much as I do. 

Well, at least now we know that there isn't a Trumpist gene! :)

Telmo

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

83x

edm

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[spudb...@aol.com]

The thing you need to focus on is not how Trump won in 2016, but how Hilary lost?

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>

To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 11:32 pm
Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

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[spudb...@aol.com]

These journalists of our youth and today never got challenged about veracity, evidence, research. Today we know we cannot trust one another so there seems a checks and balance for the public. Yeah, the boys lied but did have a basis from Mark Felt to build on. Just as you won't ready anything Murdoch puts out, my personal method is simply find people who seem to consistently tell reliable things that turn out as explained and go with them as corroborative sources.  

 It does take some time to identify these individuals, ahead of a breaking news item, but we have to start somewhere. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2022 6:08 am
Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 3:00 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> The thing you need to focus on is not how Trump won in 2016, but how Hilary lost?

Hillary lost because she focused her campaign on the American people and not on the Electoral College, and that was foolish because the American people aren't allowed to vote for the president, only the 538 members of the Electoral College get to do that.

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

9bi

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1914535410.1048197.1666378846691%40mail.yahoo.com.

[spudb...@aol.com]

No Trumpy genes here. Having said that the political demographics were and maybe still are, that white, suburban, women, resent Trump because he is, was, a womanizer. Also, Joey offered free stuff. Free stuff during the pandemic may explain it, or not? 

-----Original Message-----
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net>

To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2022 6:22 am
Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1ba0ddb2-e8cd-4a1e-b5c6-6fd70c520eb5%40app.fastmail.com

.

[spudb...@aol.com]

There was also considerable lack of support by the big pockets people. plus Hilary was burdened with having worked for Obama, who like Joe is big into American Decline. Had the women not gone for the Sec State under Obama, and I suggest that she is more flexible than Obama was, on foreign policy, we'd now be into her second term. She, at the time, was saddled with Obama's decisions on the 9-11-12 attack on the American Embassy back then. I am remembering how large this loomed in US politics back then. Gave Trumpo an opening, nationally. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0_6h_RhGx1tj9qxi0-ackCoPHi641z06GD7PbfOmwt%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.

[John Clark]

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022  <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> No Trumpy genes here

No self consistency either. It is logically self-contradictory for someone to believe in freedom and still want Trump to win the next presidential election after watching this video clip. Please note that Trump says after he won his second 4 year term he would be entitled for yet another 4 year term "OR SO"; and remember that both China and Russia once had term limits on how long anybody could be the top guy, but both Xi and Putin just ignored those limitations and now both are certain to remain dictators until the day they die, by natural causes or otherwise. Do you, who claims to be a logical man, really want the same sort of thing to happen to the USA? Do you really think if Russia, China and the USA were all dictatorships then the probability of nuclear war would be reduced?! I'll tell you what I think, I think Cosmic Trumpism may be the explanation of the Fermi Paradox.
 

Trump suggests he'll seek a third term, again

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

w0d

je

[spudb...@aol.com]

You must know after sweating over Donny 2 years past the 2020 election, almost, that you did settle, perhaps with great joy, for Joey? Not Kamala, not Hillary, not Bernie, not Beto; but Joey. If this is what the world looks like, what will you claim Joe's practical accomplishment was JC? Maybe beating Covid, we hope? 

Now, I am more of a Desantis kind of guy, but I suspect had the dems moved on with their lives, instead of their magnificent obsession, our lad, he would have simply settled for a monthly podcast. The Team dem keeps re-energizing this fellow. You want more Trump? This is how ya get more Trump!

We'll see how things flop around in a couple of weeks, as I expect neither party voters will wind up being thrilled with the results.

Meanwhile, keep your eyes peeled for Putin's faux dirty bomb, while at the same time, Xi tries to blockade Taiwan. This ain't to Joey's benefit, nor Donny's, nor even to the benefit of the worthies on The View. I see it as something akin to what old, Sam Rayburn once said of politics: "It's like fucking a gorilla. You don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla's tired." 

The US is now no longer in the epoch of the Two powered world, but a muddled multi-polar realm. Maybe we have not seen this since the Renaissance? The renaissance with nukes is no great comfort to me. If we have time, we need to remind ourselves that we also live in an age of lasers too. Scissors cuts paper after it covers rock.  

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2022 8:51 am
Subject: Re: The ex-president admits he gave top-secret information to somebody without a security clearance

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