New SBMS0 prototype.

[Dacian Todea]

This is the second WiFi prototype version and this seems to work correctly so I will order the volume production for this WiFi/USB board.

There is a 6 way DIP switch that sets between Normal and Programing mode so that the ESP32 (WiFi module) firmware can be updated using the build in USB while SBMS is powered through the 12pin connectors.

Just made the test a few minutes ago and both programing and normal mode works as expected.

Bellow a few photos of the new SBMS0 exactly how it will look like as there is no other changes that are needed.

The 12pin cell monitoring cable will now get routed on the other side not to interfere with the green connector and I also included a strain relief that you can see just under the 16pin connector. 

 

[nebulight]

Looks like a great upgrade!

[Demosthien]

Looking forward to being able to place an order.

[Julien]

Hi,

This new SBMS0 has already done very good improvements in only a few months !

Regarding hardware, I would love to see an easy way to implement PV2 reading, even as an option (just traces on PCB  and diy soldering of needed components)

Regarding software, did you implement adjustable idle level for screen luminosity (1 or 5) you talked some months ago ? or ability of using ADC2 / ADC3 for reading  PV2 (but afraid of voltage sensibility here)

[Dacian Todea]

Julien,

I had no time for software first I need to have the hardware done even building a sufficient batch of the new SBMS0 then I will take a few days to work on the software before writing the software on the new batch of SBMS0 and testing them.

[Thomas Geriak]

Will you be offering a SBMS0 upgrade program or can we send in our current SBMS0 to have the new connectors soldered in?

[Dacian Todea]

Not sure what connectors you refer to but the new SBMS0 has different PCB's and is physically larger.

All functionality of the new SBMS0 is also available on the current SBMS0 model so there is nothing you are missing on your SBMS0. 

[Thomas Geriak]

I am talking about the newer design green automation connectors. Anything would be better than the old design connectors which are not user friendly to connect and disconnect. Quite frankly a standard Phoenix connector should be used so it can be unplugged easily or a ribbon connector like used on the balancing leads.

User feed back for vehicle installs, would be to add a on/off switch for when our rigs are in storage, move the USB C 2.0 connector to the face of the unit so it is accessible, and increase the ballancing for 24 volts from 8 to 14 cells for LCO (at least to 12 cells)

Tom

[Dacian Todea]

Tom,

I guessed that your referred at the green Phoenix connectors. The white AVX connectors have the same technical capabilities the only difference is they were designed without a button to remove the wires so you need a tool to be able to release the wires. In 99% of cases wires are only installed once on the SBMS0 side. Ribbon cables can not be used as the wires need to be twisted pairs and while there are special twisted pair ribbon cables they are very expensive.

The AVX cables where used since SBMS40 / SBMS120 and there were never complains for them even if SBMS40 + SBMS120 was produced in higher volume than SBMS0 so more people interacted with that.  The difference was that SBMS40 and SBMS120 had a strain relief build in to the body of the SBMS and I provided the zip ties for that and thus cable was properly secured and people could not put pressure on the cable to break the connections.

The SBMS0 is much smaller and front panel mount so was much harder to find a proper place for strain relief but I did manage to find some place on the new SBMS0 for that. The idea was that people will install the SBMS0 on a front panel and then tie the cable to the back of that front panel with whatever method they prefer.

The few people that damaged the AVX connector where not installing the SBMS0 on a front panel just playing with it on a table with temporary install and the cable was not secured thus put pressure on the connector so the wires usually broke inside the connector. To remove the wires they then used in most cases a way to thick tool to push the spring and release the wire physically damaging the plastic and or the spring by pushing to hard on it and permanently bending the spring.

The spring bending and plastic breaking was eliminated by the new Phoenix connector as that has a small plastic button and there is also a strain relief for the cable (will include the zip ties needed) so hopefully people will use that even if they have a temporary install to play with the SBMS0.

There was a lot of effort for me to redesign the SBMS0 to fit this connector (all PCB's needed to be modified) and I will now need to manually solder each of this 16 pins connectors as the AVX was a SMD mount connector so I only needed to place the connector on the board and reflow in the oven with the other components.

Both the AVX connector and the Phoenix have the same characteristics 2A max per contact (much more than needed) and are spring based contacts that require solid core wire not stranded as strands can break and remain inside of the connector. Ferrule could be used but extremely small ferrules will be needed as both connectors are just 2.5mm pin pitch so solid core wire is by far the best choice and there are plenty of CAT6 solid core wires available usually 24, 23 and 22 AWG and any of them will work perfectly.     

 

Unfortunately there is no way to add an ON/OFF switch as all 12 wires need to be disconnected to power the device down. Due to the way the ISL94203 main BMS IC is designed even if most wires are disconnected he will still find a way to self power through the sense wires. It will not work correctly but it will still use energy. I wish I could implement that for RV's but I can not see a simple way to do that.

Not sure most people will prefer the USB in front of the SBMS as the USB if used will likely be connected at all times so cable will always be connected and that will not be a clean look to have an USB cable always connected in front of the SBMS0.

Increasing the battery voltage that SBMS can handle means using another BMS IC and a complete redesign. The SBMS was designed around my own needs thus the selected 8s BMS IC the ISL94203 on top of that higher battery voltage requires higher PV solar array voltage and for 8s 24V battery that will be 40 to 50Vdc open circuit voltage considered safe ultra low standard voltage in most countries (Europe has the limit to 75Vdc but there are places where 60Vdc is the limit) and for a 48V battery 14s or 16s you will need two large panels in series and they will have 80V to 100Vdc open circuit voltage well above the ultra low voltage standard that I do not want to exceed.

I appreciate the user feedback the front accessible USB is the only one that I never heard before (as far as I can remember). But I did not wanted to have any connectors in front for the SBMS0. 

[Thomas Geriak]

One thing to consider when producing a product may not always be how you designed it, but how others may be using it for other needs than you envision.
In the BMS world there are not too many options for people wanting to build large capacity batterys for mobile vehicle use or even 48 vdc off grid uses. Not everyone can size a PV array to match the battery when there is limited roof space or when folks want to use something different than LiFePo4 because we have limited space but need high capacity. Wt is always a limit. This is why in the RV world we also use BtoB chargers over more PV. Since we are ahead of the available technologies we need to bench develop and test our systems before a full install. This is were the sbms0 shines as it is your first real bms we could use mppt and btob chargers. Your other two sbms where more suitable to home pv/battery systems.
If many full solar rv rigs had the option for 48 vdc systems I think we could be completely dry camping. Still there is a lack of 48 vdc inverters, chargers, and solar chargers available to do this so we are still limited to 24 vdc systems. 12 vdc is only good for a rig with the need for limited power as running 4 0000 cable is just too difficult.

All the available Chinese BMS systems are just junk nor can they handle the amps needed for an all electric RV rig. I still would rather recycle EV batteries or build a Lifepo battery over spending $1000 per 1200 watt hour Battleborn (i think is way over priced).

The comment about the usb port is i do not know how you access it when you have the sbms0 flush mounted (you cant get to the back of the unit once installed). Adding a usb cable during the install so you can access is not a very clean design for a flush mount device.

With regard to using solid core cat5 or cat6 is not a great idea in a vehical as it is termed riding in an earth quake. Solid core wire breaks with time. I even think using larger gauge solid core sprinker control wire is a better idea and having it connected to a 3.5 or 5.7 Phoenix pluggable connection allows for easy separation from the main device when performing maintenance or updates. Even when using cat5 I had to completely strip my twisted pair back almost to the sbms0 since my 4 shunts are nowhere close to my inverter and chargers to control. I would at least separate out the shunt wires from the automation exios so it makes more since to use 2 cat5 cables since they are going to end up in different locations.

Just food for thought when asking for user feed back when looking to design a product.

[Dacian Todea]

Tom,

One thing to consider when producing a product may not always be how you designed it, but how others may be using it for other needs than you envision.

I have designed the SBMS for my own needs and then produced that for others that have the same needs. Building a BMS that fits any requirement may not be possible and one that fits a lot of requirements (super flexible) will be more expensive maybe Batrium is such an example as they use individual cell monitors to allow any number of cells in series that offers flexibility but at a higher cost (even if I exclude the much larger margins they have).

In the BMS world there are not too many options for people wanting to build large capacity batterys for mobile vehicle use or even 48 vdc off grid uses. Not everyone can size a PV array to match the battery when there is limited roof space or when folks want to use something different than LiFePo4 because we have limited space but need high capacity. Wt is always a limit. This is why in the RV world we also use BtoB chargers over more PV. Since we are ahead of the available technologies we need to bench develop and test our systems before a full install. This is were the sbms0 shines as it is your first real bms we could use mppt and btob chargers. Your other two sbms where more suitable to home pv/battery systems.

I agree that there are not that many options that why I sent considerable amount of time to design my own.

MPPT is useless in any offgrid system but even more so in a RV where length of cables from PV panels to battery is very short and array size is typically not that large.

Just yesterday someone made a good test comparing DSSR20 vs MPPT link to the forum post is here  https://electrodacus.com/solarforum.html?place=msg%2Felectrodacus%2FakAbSxzroaE%2FLrpUvl1fCAAJ

The test conducted for about one month showed no significant difference between MPPT and DSSR20.

  

If many full solar rv rigs had the option for 48 vdc systems I think we could be completely dry camping. Still there is a lack of 48 vdc inverters, chargers, and solar chargers available to do this so we are still limited to 24 vdc systems. 12 vdc is only good for a rig with the need for limited power as running 4 0000 cable is just too difficult.

I know in small RV's space is at a premium but LiFePO4 is superior in any sort of scenario including energy density as you can use almost 100% of the LiFePO4 capacity where with LiCoO2 or NMC you will not want to charge as EV's to 100% 4.2V and discharge down below 3V because in that scenario those cells will not last much maybe 3 to 5 years so you will be replacing 2 to 3 times over the life of LiFePO4 pack.

And if you charge with default settings 4V max and 3.3V minimum then usable capacity will be just around 70% thus you have zero gain in therms of energy density against LiFePO4 and cycle life will still be worse plus a less safe battery overal.

All the available Chinese BMS systems are just junk nor can they handle the amps needed for an all electric RV rig. I still would rather recycle EV batteries or build a Lifepo battery over spending $1000 per 1200 watt hour Battleborn (i think is way over priced).

I never recommended Battleborn or similar 12V replacement batteries as not only they are significantly overpriced 2x to 3x compared with quality LiFePO4 cells but they are also not properly protected.

The comment about the usb port is i do not know how you access it when you have the sbms0 flush mounted (you cant get to the back of the unit once installed). Adding a usb cable during the install so you can access is not a very clean design for a flush mount device.

Usually when USB is used is used by people that connect that to a raspberry Pi or similar single board computer running like a webserver and that is usually connected in the back of the SBMS0 in same electrical box. but yes you can have an extension cable then a front mounted USB if you prefer that for some reason.

With regard to using solid core cat5 or cat6 is not a great idea in a vehical as it is termed riding in an earth quake. Solid core wire breaks with time. I even think using larger gauge solid core sprinkler control wire is a better idea and having it connected to a 3.5 or 5.7 Phoenix pluggable connection allows for easy separation from the main device when performing maintenance or updates. Even when using cat5 I had to completely strip my twisted pair back almost to the sbms0 since my 4 shunts are nowhere close to my inverter and chargers to control. I would at least separate out the shunt wires from the automation exios so it makes more since to use 2 cat5 cables since they are going to end up in different locations.  

Properly installed with strain relief cables will not get damaged in a vehicle. The spring connectors are superior in vibration environments. There is no reason to ever remove the CAT5/CAT6 cable from the SBMS0.  But there are many ways to install the SBMS0 is it depends on how accessible that was.

I will say ideally (no matter if is RV or an OFF grid house) the battery, inverter, and SBMS0/DSSR20 should be all very close to eachother. This will keep all cables very short including the thicker DC cable to inverter all the other cables like those from PV panels will not be more than 10 AWG no matter the size of the PV array. The 10AWG and even 12AWG PV cable is easily capable of handling the 20A of two parallel panels and that will go to DSSR20 that will be close to battery.

Fairly large RV's will likely not have more than around 8x 300W panels that means just 4 pairs of 12 or 10 AWG wires from the panels to the DSSR20.

I will say all my equipment Battery, inverter, SBMS120, DMPPT450 circuit breakers are in a volume of around 80cm x 80cm x 60cm  3ftx3ftx2ft (most of that volume is empty) is just in a corner of my small office so it can be even better organized if I wanted to save more space.

I did not found a proper photo but this older one is good enough with the battery just under this photo and the inverter on the left side on the other wall

  

[Josh Peterson]

Any news on the new sbms0?

[Dacian Todea]

Josh,

Orders for new SBMS can be done starting September 7th and shipping for those orders will be done about two weeks later.

[George Demean]

Great news Dacian...I booked my calendar for ordering a unit on the Sept 7th...

Allow me to congratulate you on your wonderful work 👍 🇷🇴

[Demosthien]

Great news! Counting down the days now. :-)

[Don Fukushima]

The new model(s) of SBMS0 have wifi built in to base model now? The older models had separate WiFi board which is what I need now. Do I order WiFi option or new board includes WiFi? Thanks for great work. don

[Dacian Todea]

Don,

No the WiFi/USB will still be a separate option as many people do not want or need the WiFi. When WiFi is ordered it will already be installed on the SBMS same as it was on the earlier SBMS0 model and many people asked where the WiFi board is :)

Those that do not order the extra WiFi/USB will get the WiFi PCB is just that no components are populated on that board is just the backboard of the SBMS0.

I will make sure to make photos for both an SBMS0 with and one without WiFi/USB installed to see the difference. 

I will need to build a few more of the older WiFi/USB boards so you will need to specify when you order one that you wanted for the earlier SBMS0 version as board has different size and different components.

[Don Fukushima]

Thank you. There was no button on the website to order the older WiFi board. Please put me on the waitlist, I sure can use it to grab logs more easily. don

[Dacian Todea]

Buttons will be back on September 7th. They will be for the new WiFi but I will make a note that you want the older model.

[Paul Rimmer]

Purchased! 

:)

[nebulight]

I saw the new image on your home screen. Is this new firmware online yet? I bought a USB breakout cable from a post you made a year or so back. However I'm not sure if the built in USB port can be used to flash the firmware. Do you have instructions on how to flash the firmware? I'd like that new monitor screen. Thanks!

http://electrodacus.com/images/SBMS01.png

On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 6:50:17 PM UTC-7 Paul Rimmer wrote:

Purchased! 

:)

[Dacian Todea]

I need to test the new firmware is not quite ready first for this new SBMS0 then I will test and release for the existing SBMS0 that has some slight differences but is almost the same.

There are few small things but that extra monitoring page you seen is the more visible change.

Is just an extra page in the monitoring menu mostly made for those that complained about the small SBMS screen due to less than perfect vision so it has large current / power values for the PV, Battery and Load.

Bellow a better resolution photo of that page 6 of the monitoring. It contains those 4 colorful rectangles for PV, Battery, Load and Diversion that at the moment has no current shunt to measure but I may offer something in the future for that.

You can see the two current shunts that battery current shunt with RED and PV current shunt with green and harder to see there are labels to see where current shunt sense wires will connect.

I used the same large font I use for battery SOC so should be large enough for most people that complained about the smaller fonts in the other menus. There is also a very simple animation showing the current direction on the current shunts when current is above 100mA and the battery current shunt will become green when there is a charge current instead of discharge.

 

[ReinholdU]

...aaaannnd another SBMS0 setup in your incoming queue 😎

Thanks Dacian

[Kohala Jim]

I too took the plunge for the new version, despite having a fully operation v1.

Anybody looking for a low cost v1 unit out there?
Will make a smokin' deal for a US-based user??

[Don Fukushima]

Jim, does it have the wifi/usb feature?

[Barry Timm]

Dacian, do you see yourself potentially, in the future, offering a firmware upgrade service for existing SBMS users?

I'd pay something like $50 plus shipping for such an upgrade, especially if it could be done on a simple "swap-out" basis to reduce the turnaround time.

Barry

[Dacian Todea]

Hi Barry,

I can not swap out devices as no one will want a used unit. But if you pay for the shipping I can update the firmware for you or you can just buy a $5  STLInk programer and I will provide install instruction in the manual.

It will take a bit of time until this last firmware will be available for the v02d SBMS0 as I need to implement and test the new functionality that is not that much.

I will work on the manual when I have a bit more time.

Best regards,

Dacian.

[Barry Timm]

OK, I will wait to see the instructions for the firmware upgrade, thanks.

[Kohala Jim]

The unit has a Hybrid of the Wifi board.
Specifically, all the I/O expansion including the USB stack and the EXTIO3/EXTIO4 optos.
Effectively everything except the ESP32.

The forum server isn't in a good mood this morning as I can't insert pictures or upload attachments.

Send me an email or message me here if your interested.
I'll let it go @ 80% of original price + shipping.

Thanks,

J

[Donald Bitterman]

Order placed, I am really looking forward to this system.

I have ~1,200 18650 Li Co Cl cells, solar panels, holders and fuse wire.

I am about half way through testing for voltage bleeders and just started capacity testing.  To kick start this I was going to use some lead acid batteries I already have on hand and wrap up the 18650 packs this summer.

Really excited about this system!!!  Thanks Dacia!!!!!!

[Kohala Jim]

Just a quick update for anyone interested, the aforementioned v1 SBMS0 unit has been SOLD.

[Derek Eells]

Definitely interested in instructions about how to update the previous SBMS0! Already ordered a new one also :)

[Richard Lussier]

Is it possible to know what are the hardware and software differences from the old one on this now revision ?

I already own a SBMS0, and wonder if it's worth changing...

[Dacian Todea]

Richard,

There are many insignificant changes on both hardware and software so there will not be a huge difference between the v02d and v03d of the SBMS0

 

On hardware the main change is the size with the v03d version being 15mm longer to allow for the new Phoenix 16pin connector instead of the 10pin 8+2pin AVX connector used in the v02d

Related to the new connector is the fact that EXT IO5 and IO6 that on v02d where on the optional WiFi/USB board are now on the v03d on the main board so you have all 4 EXT IOx even if you do not get the optional WiFi/USB. Also the EXT IOx on the v03d will use now the TLP172GM instead of the TLP187 both made by Toshiba and both will be capable of max 50mA 300V but the TLP172GM has two back to back transistors so there is no longer the diode effect tho you should still check by setting the EXT IOx to type 0 and see if the Load or charger is turning OFF

The ESP32 is slightly different as it has more memory but it is fully compatible so you will be able to use the new WiFi firmware done by Robert on both tho the new SBMS0 will ship the Roberts firmware by default (still work in progress should be ready when I start to ship in about two weeks).

On software there are also not many changes and they will be available for the current v02d SBMS0 version also very soon (just need to test).  Most visible change is likely that 6th monitoring screen then is the ability to change the sleep backlight level (in the past that default to level 5 now you can select from level 1 to level 9)  and there is also an option to invert the UP/DOWN key functionality in the Monitoring menu as someone requested that. There are some other smaller not significant changes but as mentioned they will be available for the current SBMS0 models also and even for the older SBMS models except for the monitoring screen 6 that is specific to SBMS0 as it shows the two external current shunt.

[Richard Lussier]

Dacian,

Thank you for that fast reply, 

I know you must be very busy with the preparations. 

I am anxious to try this new firmware, and the new wifi implementation. 

I have been using the SBMS0 on the sailboat I live on for three months now without a flaw.... 

I use two DSSR20 for solar, a MW RSP750 for charging from the dock, a Renogy DCC1212-40 for the motor alternator (just in emergency) a Victron BP-100 for the dc load, and a Xantrex ProWatt sine wave inverter.

I use Sinipoly SP--LFP300AHA power bank 1P4S for 12volts. Everything worked flawlessly from the beginning... Wonderfull

I also use an open sourse navigation system called OpenPlotter....

This is the best management system I have ever seen, and open source is so valuable.... 

Many thanks,

Richard

[Casey & Gina]

What are the extra EXT IOs useful for?

I don't want anything WiFi personally, but what do you think about making an ethernet interface option?  It would be nice if the BMS could be plugged into an existing network...

[Dacian Todea]

Casey & Gina,

EXT IOx are the most important part as they are used to control ON/OFF all loads and charge sources. You can not use the SBMS0 without using the EXT IOx

For wired connection there is the USB port that can be used and data is automatically send there you just need to build your own interface to display data as I do not have anything available at this moment.

[Robert Tagscherer]

The esp32 has an oj board ethernet MAC hardware. It is not impossible to make a wired ethernet connection to it. The changes to the software would probably be minimal.
If future hardware revisions could provide access to more of the esp32's pins we could probably make some kind of shield for ethernet and also other applications like sd-card loggong.

[Casey & Gina]

Dacian, I know that the EXT IOx are used for controlling on/off for loads and charging, and I am using the two built in to the SBMS v02d now for that purpose, but what are the extra ones (IO5 and IO6), either on the optional wifi board for v02d or built into the v03d, useful for?

I know there is USB, but this can only be connected to a single computer, and I don't think USB can go as far as ethernet (could be wrong).  I guess that it's intended to be used with a dedicated low-power computer like a Raspberry that can be kept very close to the SBMS0, which can then serve data to other devices over a network.  Whereas with ethernet, no dedicated computer would be needed, and the data could potentially be used by multiple other devices on the network.

[Dacian Todea]

Not going to implement wired ethernet as almost no one will need that and it will be expensive to implement especially since it needs proper isolation.

USB range can be fairly large.

Extra IO5 and IO6 are just that extra all EXT IOx are the same and can be programed as any type from 1 to 6.

[Barry Timm]

Casey & Gina

Regarding the "extra" EXTIO ports, I use all 4 of them (actually, have 5 devices being controlled, two through an external opti-isolator.)

1. Victron Multiplus 24/3000 120V inverter-charger INVERT (LOADS) and a 

     Victron Orion 24/12 DC-DC converter (LOADS) through an optoisolator controlled by EXTIO3

2. 3 x DSSR20 controller (CHARGING) through EXTIO4.

3. Victron Phoenix 24/2000 240v inverter (LOADS) controlled by EXTIO5, using SOC% as cutoff.

4. Victron Multiplus 24/3000 120V inverter-charger CHARGING controlled by EXTIO6.

I'd have loved an extra EXTIO port or two, to avoid having to use the crappy Chinese optoislator that is very poor quality, but it seems to be working fine, for now.....

[Casey & Gina]

Thanks Barry - that’s very useful to hear.  So your use case is to have different cutoff points for the last two inverters?  Why do you have two different Multipluses controlled by different IOs?

I have 3 loads to remote on/off:

- Multiplus 24/3000 for 120V loads (will likely upgrade to Quattro 24/5000 but that should work the same)

- BatteryProtect for 24V loads

- Orion 24/12 for 12V loads

Also remote on/off for Multiplus charging.

Currently, I only have the Inverter remotes hooked up.  I bought this optoisolator that Dacian suggested - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GMHLL2M - but I haven’t looked into how to hook it up yet so that I have remote on/off working for my DC loads as well as A/C - it hasn’t been a priority yet since my battery doesn’t get used too heavily and never drops too low to worry about yet.  Do you have any reason to distrust yours - what makes it “very low quality”; perhaps there are better alternatives available?  I’m curious if you have any pictures of your setup, especially as our use cases are similar.  Tomorrow I will be building a new electrical panel to replace the messy hackjob I have now.

[Barry Timm]

I use two different EXTIO ports for the two inverters because while the Multiplus 120V inverter loads feed critical loads like my future fridge, etc and need to be disconnected ONLY to protect the battery via the SBMS0 standard setting for low battery disconnect voltage, I have decided to disconnect the Phoenix inverter EARLIER, at 45% SOC level, as that inverter is dedicated to a non-essential but high consumption load (my mini-split A/C). I don't want the A/C to draw down my battery to the point that the battery is effectively dead and the SBMS switches off my fridge, especially if I'm leaving the A/C running for our dog inside the RV while we are away.

So, you will presumably use EXTIO3 for your three loads (Inverter LOADS, BP LOADS and Orion LOADS, through your optoisolator. 

And your DSSR20 charging through EXTIO4.

That leaves your EXTIO5 for other loads, or you could separate your essential loads from non-essential and use the EXTIO5 for the separate control, if desired.

This leaves EXTIO6 for your  Multiplus/Quattro charging, as you'd need that separate from the loads control on EXTIO3.

I would DEFINITELY setup the system to manage ALL your charging and loads, regardless of their current levels. I know of folks who mistakenly left their system unmanaged for very small DC loads like an LED light, and which killed their LFP battery when in storage! 

Cheers,

Barry

[Casey & Gina]

Yes, I remember you had an earlier cutoff for the 240V inverter.  That makes a lot of sense.  

But why are the two 120V Multipluses controlled differently - one though IO3+opto and the other through IO6?

I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph, and will get to that point soon...  But I am still building out my trailer *and* living in it fulltime, so I am able to keep a close eye on the SOC.  I don’t have heavy loads hooked up yet either.

[Barry Timm]

I have one Multiplus 120v inverter-charger, not two. That one inverter-charger requires TWO EXTIO ports because you have to control the LOADS (INVERTER function) separately from the CHARGING. The LOADS are set as a Type 2 port on my EXTIO3 while the charging is set as a Type 1 port on my EXTIO6 port. You can only assign ONE port type to each EXTIO port, thus you need TWO ports to fully control the Multiplus - for loads and charging.

[Casey & Gina]

*smacks forehead* Ah yes, I see that now, my mistake.  Thanks again!

[Graham Bebbington]

Barry, I am following your setup within reason. Currently in our Oz built 5th wheeler, it has the following:

12v for lights, tv, fans and phone charging. 240v for a/c, washing machine, microwave and 1 cooking element, hot water is gas, unless we are staying in a park with hookup, most of the time we are free camping.

Have changed the rv fridge to a 240v Samsung 175lt Inverter fridge running from a Victron 375watt 12/240 Inverter, later I will install a Victron Multi plus 12/3000 240v Inverter to run the other items in the van. I would like away to setup the SBMS120 so that it will turn off the Victron Multi first and leave the fridge Inverter running.

[Barry Timm]

Sounds like you might configure your system similarly to me then....

You will presumable have a Victron BatteryConnect to control your 12v loads?

You would need to use separate EXTIO ports for the fridge inverter than the general 240v loads. I don't know the SBMS120....does it also have 4 x EXTIO ports?

Assuming it does (like the SBMS0) you could do the following....

You will need one EXTIO port for the general 240v loads Multiplus (say EXTIO3) and the BatteryConnect (you will probably need an opto-isolator to control those two devices through one EXTIO3 port), and 1 for the DSSR20 or Solar controller charging (say EXTIO4), and one for the Fridge inverter, (say EXTIO5) and one for the general Multiplus charging (say EXTIO6), for when you are hooked up to external grid power or generator..

You could set the EXTIO5 load port to switch off at a specified SOC%, but would need to ensure your shunts are calibrated and your battery capacity is set correctly for the SOC% to be reasonably accurate.

[Barry Timm]

I took a quick look at the manual for the sbms120. Looks very different from the sbms0 that my reply above was based on, so best to ignore my reply haha!

I can't find the EDIT button for posts, sorry.

[Dacian Todea]

There is EXT IO5 and IO6 on the SBMS40 and SBMS120 but they are not optically isolated so user will need to do that externally as they are just direct signals coming from the main microcontroller. They are available on the 16pin connector.

[Casey & Gina]

I just realized that the SBMS0 i have doesn’t have EXT IO5 built-in, so I can’t remote control my charger.  As I hadn’t hooked up the temperature sensor yet I was thinking that those pins were EXT IO5 from memory.  Oops!  So with the older version of the SBMS0, do I need to buy a wifi board to get IO5 and IO6?  If I do that, can the wifi functionality be completely disabled?

This might be a good excuse to buy a new SBMS0 with the extra IOs built-in, and use the older SBMS0 to replace the SBMS40 I am otherwise going to use for the secondary system in my van.

[Barry Timm]

I believe I'm correct in saying that it does have EXTIO5 and EXTIO6 but unless you solder the optional connector block that was included in your SBMS0 purchase to the board, you'll have to solder the wires directly to the board. 

You can always disable the wifi by setting it to 0.

[Dacian Todea]

Yes on SBMS0 v02d the IO5 and IO6 is on the WiFi/USB extension so if you did not get that option then it is not present.

And as Barry already mentioned the WiFi can always be fully disabled on any SBMS model by just setting in the menu to 0 as that will fully power down the WiFi so no extra power consumption is like is not even installed.

[Kohala Jim]

Just received my shipping notification from Dacian!  Looking forward to receiving the new SBMS0 unit.

I did find a new home for my original SBMS0 (thanks Josh!) and it's getting installed down south of us here in the Springs area.

Nice work, Dacian!

I must say, you say what you mean and mean what you say.

[Chris Cord]

I just got an email from Canadian Post too. Please please put some maple syrup in the box. And I’ll swap you some KC bbq sauce

[Dacian Todea]

Jim and Chris,

Yes about half of the orders (the earlier ones) will be shipped tomorrow and the other half will be shipped on Monday.

[Paul Rimmer]

Thanks Dacian.  Can't wait to get going on this in a couple of weeks.

[Dacian Todea]

Glad to see you already got the new SBMS0.

I will need to make a manual for the new SBMS0 but for now the old SBMS0 manual should still be mostly good.

[Barry Timm]

Apologies if this was mentioned in the earlier design discussion for the new SBMS version, but is the wifi connection going to be more reliable now? I ask because my older SBMS0 seems to drop the wifi quite frequently. At first, it seemed to run OK for some days at a time, but recently, it's been dropping after a few seconds from a reboot of the wifi module (Set wifi to 0 and then back to 1.) I have no clue what causes it to hang, but it is pretty disruptive, so am hoping the new one is better. I may simply upgrade to the new one if confirmed.

Thanks!

[Dacian Todea]

Barry,

The WiFi uses the firmware made by Robert and so can be used both as access point (power consumption seems a bit high in that mode) and in client mode meaning you connect the SBMS to your router or mobile phone if that is what you use for data.

Likely you are staying in the WiFi menu if it drops in a few seconds you need to get out of that menu once you set WiFi to ON.

The new firmware can also be installed on the SBMS0 version that you have as well as in the SBMS40 and SBMS120 models.

The current WiFi firmware is the one made by Expresif (the people that designed and produce the ESP32). The new one made by Robert is a bit of an early version but for the few weeks I tested it works OK tho I need to mention that the original WiFi firmware also works OK for me and it only dropped once for me but I do not monitor through WiFi very often or for long periods. 

[Barry Timm]

Thx, Dacian. I am happy to hear that I can update my version of the hardware. I will try that once the firmware update process instructions are ready. I know you have lots on your plate.

BTW, As soon as I reset the wifi module, I do exit that menu and switch back to monitoring mode. It will usually be OK for a day or two, but as I said, lately it's been intermittently just a few minutes or even seconds at times.

Thanks again.

[nebulight]

Any links to the new firmware for the unit and the wifi? Also any instructions on how to actually perform the upgrade?

[Dacian Todea]

Here is the link to github and the instuctions on how to update are there https://github.com/armageddon421/electrodacus-esp32

[Barry Timm]

LOL, OK! :-) 

I read through the info on the process. I guess I'm staying with the old version!  It is nearly all "Greek" to me! :)

I hate being so ignorant......

[Kohala Jim]

The Eagle has landed...

All arrived in perfect shape, and my only critique is the Styrofoam peanuts (albeit just a small handful of them).

I can't even get the UPS store to take these anymore, and there's no recycling them.

I'd post a pic, but the server has rejected every form of upload there is, and I shrank the image to < 500KB

[Dacian Todea]

Kohala,

I received a large parcel containing those peanuts and instead of throwing them I decided to reuse them. You can do the same if you have anything to ship.

I do not buy those intentionally and I do not like them.

There must be some rules google groups has but not sure what they are. Maybe after a certain number of posts you are allowed to post photos. Or maybe it is some other arbitrary rule.

[Chris Cord]

Happy Dacus Day to you. I think my mail man opens all my packages and dances with my stuff for a few nights. Then gives them to me all dirty. I could be wrong though.

[Dacian Todea]

:) Customs sometimes open's packages I seen cases (usually in Europe) where the opened the larger SBMS and once a DMPPT450 and they forgot to put all screws back in. They are shielded so likely hard to see trough and are suspiciously heavy especially the SBMS120 and DMPPT450.

Or maybe Jim Carrey is your mail man :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YrpmZFixp0

[Kohala Jim]

OK, I'll give you a pass for the proliferation of the popcorn... 8^)

I've posted tons of pic in this forum previously, so it's an odd server refusal message.  

I'm running Chrome and rebooted as well with no joy.

I will also say the connectivity improvements in the new version are a marked improvement over the previous version.

I'm still not a fan of the battery ribbon/IDC balancer/sampling connection method, however, everything else is much nicer.

The ability to flash externally without hacking connections or disassembly is also a big plus.

Looking forward to firing this up with all the new bells and whistles.

Nice work, Dacian.

[Lappies]

Hello,

my sbms0 arrived yesterday and i connected it quickly without shunt, works so far.

What are the black screws and nuts for?

I can't create a new topic in the forum, get the message "Posts in this group require at least one day".

But I can reply to existing topics, strange.

[Urs]

The screws are to mount it, see SBMS0 manual page 12.

Did you translate "Posts in this group require at least one day". from german? Because my browser is in german and if I translate that word by word I get that, but in this case "tag" doesn't mean day, but "english tag" (in german something like Kennzeichnung). At the end of the post I got a field where i had to fill in at least one tag, but it didn't accepted my own one, I could just choose one of the suggested ones like batteries, digital-mppt, general-discussions and so on. See here:

 

And I had to click on that aproppriate link, writing "batteries" for example directly in that field didn't work for me...

[Lappies]

Urs, thanks.

RTFM 

Yes, also German browser here. Ok, Tag and not day make sense.

[Barry Timm]

Dacian, excuse my ignorance on the github environment, but when reading through the documentation at the link you provided above, it refers to "see the next section" for the firmware upgrade instruction. Where or how do I find that "next section"?

Thanks

Barry

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:07:09 PM UTC-6 electr...@gmail.com wrote:

[Paul Rimmer]

Barry,

All of the instructions to upgrade the esp32 FW appear to be right there.  So "see next section" doesn't mean another page, it just means look lower down on the same page.

This can be easily fixed via github's markdown language by just adding a link to the next section.  For example: [see next section](https://github.com/armageddon421/electrodacus-esp32#installation--flashing).

Paul

[Dacian Todea]

Barry,

You just need to scroll down from see the next section where there will be an Installation / Flashing section.

[Barry Timm]

Oh, I mistook that "Installation / Flashing" section as being a sub-section of the Arduino OTA update procedure, sorry!

[Barry Timm]

Am now reading up on Zsh, PlatformIO, Python,  (on my Mac Catalina), STLink Flashers, USB-to-Serial adapters, jumper cables, etc, etc, etc.

Phew, I'm stretching my limits here to upgrade this SBMS0! Hope I don't break it! :) :)

[Barry Timm]

Do I still need the STLink  device if I follow the github procedure and use PlatformIO, or is the PlatformIO compile and upload taking the place of the STLink?

[Dacian Todea]

Barry,

The STLink is not used for the WiFi (ESP32) firmware update. All you will be flashing is the ESP32 that is the name of the WiFi module and that software has only to do with the WiFi connectivity.

STLink is a protocol used to program the ST (STMicroelectronics) micro controller that is what controls all else except for the WiFi.

So there are two microcontroller one is the ST32F373 that is the main SBMS0 microcontroller responsible for everything that is displayed on the LCD the communication with main BMS IC the ISL94203, the captive touch buttons, the current shunt measurements, the EXT IOx controls the internal data log and many other things and that is the software I wrote.

The WiFi module based on ESP32 has his own software and that is responsible to getting the data from the STM32F373 and sending them to a WiFi enabled computer to display in a browser.

Even if you where to fail programming the ESP32 WiFi module nothing will be affected other than your ability to connect to SBMS0 over WiFi.

But you can not damage anything so even of you upload some wrong data to the WiFi module you can always do it the correct way and it will start working.

So you need just the USB to serial adapter to program the ESP32

[Barry Timm]

Thanks Dacian!

But from what you said above, this means that if I want the latest BMS firmware with the new Monitor screen #6, etc, etc. then I also need to flash that firmware, and not only the ESP32 for the wifi stuff, correct? And if that's true then I still need the STLink programmer and the flash instructions, correct?

If so....are the flash instructions for the BMS itself written down anywhere?

[Dacian Todea]

Yes to update the SBMS0 firmware you need the STLink is just that is a completely separate and independent thing from the WiFi.

For that check this post https://groups.google.com/g/electrodacus/c/hGIUhL7idQ8/m/Puev9SCVAQAJ

[Barry Timm]

Excellent!

As I have a Macbook Pro running Catalina, can I assume that the new multi-OS programmer software "STM32CubeProgrammer" should be fully backwards compatible and able to update the SBMS0 firmware without problem?

Also, would this breakout accessory work for the USB to Serial connection to enable me to connect those pins you mention in that post? 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QN6JVG1/ref=pd_luc_rh_sspa_dk_huc_pt_expsub_2?psc=1&smid=AGFPNQ1YHUDFB&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFHRkY3SDNESkIwUEYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAzODg0NDFRVzdJTzFLQkJZQiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzgyMjM4MkVXRDhHMjVURUdaOCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2h1Y19tcmFpJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

[Dacian Todea]

Barry,

Yes that STM32CubeProgramer will work for programming the SBMS0 with latest firmware but you will need an STLink V2.0 programmer and the binary file I provided link to thus no USB to serial is involved for this.

The USB to serial is needed only for programming the WiFi board and you need a USB to UART 3.3V logic level so that cable you showed in that link will not be useful at all as that is USB to RS232. So there will be no DB9 connector involved anywhere as RS232 standard DB9 connector will have plus minus 12V voltage levels not useful for programming the WiFi (ESP32).

So for the SBMS0 STM32F373 microcontroller programing you will be using the STLink V2.0 connected as shown here https://groups.google.com/g/electrodacus/c/mlqSLOcVAbI/m/S8E7vWYAAgAJ and use the STM32CubeProgrammer to upload the binary file https://electrodacus.com/SBMS0/sbms0-v03d-v51d.bin.zip

For the WiFi (ESP32) you need a USB to UART board and connect to the WiFi board so on the connector attached to that 16pin ribbon cable as shown on the github page and using those instructions there. You mentioned that you have a USB to serial UART cable hope is not one of those with DB9 connectors as those will be RS232 so -+12V not usable.

[Barry Timm]

OK, thanks for the clarifications. I believe I understand it now. I'm 100% sure it would have been much clearer to me if I had already received the various hardware bits and pieces and could see them in my hands! :)

I'll be ordering two DSSR20 diversion controllers, and the DEXT16, as well as the STLink V2 and the USB to UART adapter, and downloading all the software for my Mac. 

I'm thinking there is a reasonable chance of me blowing everything up hahah!!!!

Barry

[Barry Timm]

Good for the USB-UART firmware update on ESP32?

https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-U09C5-Converter-Support/dp/B07WX2DSVB/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=usb+uart+3.3v+5v&qid=1624995868&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyU01QM01XUkxBWENDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTA0MDExTUJXUENGM1FWVjI4JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwODk1MTg3SEtCU05EVU5URlQmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

[Dacian Todea]

Yes that USB to UART is good to program the ESP32

I should also mention that you may want an USB isolator like this one that I use https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN-Isolator-Digital-Isolation-Industrial/dp/B00XXPO4UG or similar as I'm not sure how your computer is powered and you can have a ground loop if laptop is powered with DC-DC converter from the battery and then SBMS is also powered from battery and then you connect USB programmers between laptop and SBMS

Or if you have a laptop just disconnect and run it from his own battery so there is no chances of a ground loop ruining your day. 

[Barry Timm]

Wow, so much to consider! OK, I will make a label for the USB-UART to remind me to use it only on laptop battery!!!

Thanks!!!!