Re: Powerfab 125WT

[Anthony Skilton]

Good question Joe. I also would like to hear/see how it's done. 

Ant

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 7:11 AM, ChippyJoe <thejo...@aol.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Just bought a Powerfab 125WT and also this great forum - am sure to have a lot of questions and will try to put up some pictures soon.

A bit confused already on the concept to enable the unit to go through narrow accesses - from the sales literature here it suggests that you remove the main drive wheels/axle/mudguard assemblies both sides.

My simple question is at this stage do you put some sort of narrower wheels or dolly-trolley underneath to support/steer this along or just drag it somehow - sorry for sounding stupid !  Had nievely thought beforehand that you can just adjust the track in, like modern micro diggers !

Cheers, Joe

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[Pete1961]

Have a look at the picture here http://www.oilyhands.co.uk/images/Powerfab-Nathan/Powerfab-press.pdf

The machine is shown prepared for parallel trenching close to a wall (simulated by the cones alongside), so it has the leg nearest the 'wall' in the straight out front position, and also both front wheels removed (though the wheel on the non wall side could have been left fitted for what they are doing here.

To go throu a narrow doorway set both legs to the narrowest straight out setting & remove both front wheels (the leg settings should have made this easy by causing front wheels to be just off the ground). The machine can now be carefully walked forward using the digging arm. Travel will be pretty much in a straight line only but tiny steering corrections can be made by slewing with the bucket on ground & the weight just taken off the front legs

Whilst the machine is set up like this do NOT swing the bucket wider than the width between the legs - otherwise you could tip over sideways. Also only attempt this on firm flat land. Once throu the doorway widen out both legs for stability

& if you narrowed the back axle down to 28'' re widen this too.

I would read up all the pdf's on jim's powerfab page that refer to the 125 model as as some cover bits on the 125W, WT & WTD on the same pdf & it will give an insight into how this model evolved & what it can & cannot do. As with any unfarmiliar machine low throttle settings when learning &/or attemting anything tricky is a good rule.

These low cost simple machines can do much that a modern micro can - if a bit more slowly. I take it yours is the non powered wheels model (being a WT) it may have 'pin adjust' or hydraulic front legs (stabilisers) as both were an option.

Look forward to seeing some pics of your digger, Pete

On Monday, July 9, 2012 7:11:05 AM UTC+1, ChippyJoe wrote:

[Tom Carty]

Excellent post Pete. A huge amount of detail here. Hope it helps
ChippyJoe out. These kinds of postings- detailed and from experience
are what make this forum so valuable.

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[Anthony Skilton]

Pete

Thanks for the info.

Yes this is an amazing forum.

Anthony

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Pete1961 <pete_e...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

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[rspb...@aol.com]

Hi Joe and wellcome

Antony, Looks like a nice machine for the earlyier 125W machine.

I have just finished rebuilding my 125w there a nice easy machine to work on just keep the front slew well greased.

Ive seen two machines that the pin locks and shears the retaining bolt, pig to remove later if left.

 

Just starting a 125WTD what fun.

Rob

[ChippyJoe]

[ChippyJoe]

Hi again and many thanks to all for the quick replies - I am overwhelmed by the help and support already !!  I seem to be a novice on these forums and not sure what I'm doing and may of posted some blank replies in my efforts this morning already !

I have managed to put all my pics so far on here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/104082471244106840480/JoeSPowerfab125WT?authkey=Gv1sRgCNGr4r-l26yVbA#

The first few are from the seller, the next ones are on my trailer having arrived back, and the last 2 are some immediate points of action ....I'm tight for space at home (need a good tidy up in my 'side yard' and had to drop the bucket (on the trailer) to get thro' my side 'garage doorway'

The original 5hp engine was replaced with a 11hp one.

Bought it to do various tasks such as hole digging and tree root dragging out, but have already been asked to did a 20ftx10ftx2ft deep pond locally !

Will slowly restore but need to get up and running asap, which it will in fact work but need to do the following:

-main boom(?) if that it's name pivot is badly worn and the arm rocks side to side. Not sure if just pivot pin or holes, prob both so need to remove/inspect/repair as much in situ as possible.  I do have workshop facilities.

-some oil leaks on joints on left hand side.

-top cylinder has slight fluid seal leak, although told not a big prob would like to repair.

A major issue is that my original thought that the front wheels would retract in to fit my trailer (and go through narrow accesses) was not to be and I now realise that both front wheels need removing.

The trailer issue is first priority and the wide dumper wheels/tyres are too wide (10") and perishing - I want to be able to tow the digger itself locally without the trailer at times.  Had to remove those wheels for transportation back and there it still sits !  I could drag the thing back and put those wheels back on for now but maybe have another gameplan here.  The width across the outside of the studs on the hubs is only about 1" short of the trailer width so I am thinking of getting some new dumper 6" wide tyres and fitting these to something like 12" mini (car) rims (or whatever combination with available tyres). Most of these type car rims are 'offset' inward so that these wouldn't extend any more outward than the stud line (if that makes sense?). The clearance off the support arm should just allow a 6" tyre and a new one would be safe for towing on and should cope with the weight.  For digging the front legs would go down to support as well. I would keep the original wheels anyway in store.

Anyway, better stop now, rushing off now, but had to get something up for all to see.

Cheers, Joe

(PS-I am based near Staines in Middlesex)

[Pete1961]

Hi Joe

I have had a look at your pictures & for all the stickers on the machine say 125WT they may have been put on at the time of a respray. From what I can see I think you have a 125 WTD driven wheel model.

Just behind each front wheel you will see an unlocking pin. This when out allows these front wheels to oscillate up & down via a built in indespension on each side, thus the machine is initself a road legal trailer so it does not really need to go onto another as a mini digger would. Before trying this do read up all the pdf's regarding the 125WTD as you also have to set some valves to allow the front wheels to become free rotating without damaging the hydraulics. I have not myself ever used the power driven wheels model so no experence here, belive the max tow speed is 40 mph (reccomended by the maker)

The moment you want to drive it under its own power having got to the jobsite - do relock out the suspension travel - pdfs say this is vital. Read all you can before towing as info is better than breaking an expensive part. Only downside of your model is it takes a bit longer to prepare for going against a wall or thro a gap - ie you have snap fit hoses to disconnect. Looks a tidy machine, always would have needed a bigger engine than 5hp to run the drive motors. Interested to know what this cost as is top of the range for the 125's

Nowadays it is a requirement to have the manuals with machines on site, the game has changed & anyway I cannot empisize too much what a good thing this can be (I was one of the few operators who ever read them even 30+ years ago) Good Luck & great pictures, Pete

On Monday, July 9, 2012 7:11:05 AM UTC+1, ChippyJoe wrote:

[rspb...@aol.com]

Hi Joe it is a wtd driven model.

limit is 30 as it seem they go bang if a lots faster, think I read you exchange dirt wheels for wheel road wheels these was extra, some where on one of there bit of paper work. 

https://picasaweb.google.com/104082471244106840480/JoeSPowerfab125WT?authkey=Gv1sRgCNGr4r-l26yVbA#5763806788265879938 

The handles both move fwd or inline one is tow setting and other is drive, one allows oil to flow back to tank other only via control slice, but there a diagram on the top by controls to show what goes where.

Trailer is for distance traveling normally.

[ChippyJoe]

Many thanks Pete and RSPB for your replies - I think you have cracked it as a 125WTD - for some reason before I thought the D was for diesel engine !!! I now realise that the D is 'driven' and the literature on this site now all ties up with it.  I'll have to add a "D" to the decals !!!  All the info you have given is really appreciated and I will study all the articles/manuals etc and make copies.

The original dirt tyres are a bit perished so would have been dodgy to tow on - maybe they have tubes anyway.

For both access and trailer fitting I have sourced some much offset (inward on machine !) wheels/road tyres to fit on the front (Austin Metro Mk1  !!!) which protrude out no more than the hub studs and should fit my trailer ...just.  When digging the loads will be taken by the drop down legs anyway.  Hopefully the skid steer should still work OK.  For very local jobs I will want to tow the digger itself.

There are quite a few oil leaks from joints which I need to check through carefully.  I am not familiar with these hydraulic systems yet to know how it works - is there a reservoir tank that I keep topped up and do I have to bleed air from the system ?  The front wheel hose connections do seem quick release for detactment of the wheel assemblies.

I have to investigate the worn main boom bottom pivot as one of the first jobs - is there any advice on what to expect and whether parts are available - I'm guessing I may have to carefully strip and custom make a new pin/bushings ?  The machine looks better in the pics, but it has worked hard and there are lots of botched repairs which have been painted over - I will get around it all in time but need to get it working asap.  I will add photos to my album link as I progress.

I was quite surprised yesterday to see a later Powerfab tracked digger up for sale just a mile or so away on ebay, but it seems it was bought off line quickly.  The ebay number was 200791664729

Cheers, Joe

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[rspb...@aol.com]

The dirt wheel I think your find are not for legal road driving, they are setup to run lot lower pressure and tyre area for off road use.

 

Hydraulic tank level is the main check with the engine oil.

 

I've replaced mine and filters, so I have a fresh start date

 

Pipes, I found leaks more than likely where they are crimped to the rubber over time, thats a replacement hose time.

 

It's self bleed hydraulic system but the level has to be kept above the pipe going out of tank to pump. the level glass is a good way above that.

 

I'll be replacing pins / bushes as needed on my 125wtd, will let you know if the same as the early 125w i've just done.

 

Pictures on mine so far, just to get to a point its working..

 

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x100/rspblake/POWERFAB%20125WTD/

 

link to the 125w I did on a different post..

 

Boy some people Ideas on a repair makes me laugh, instead of replacing the pins on my 125WTD control lever, some bright spark welded them.

 

But then that's another story

 

Regards Rob

[ChippyJoe]

Thanks for info Rob and sorry for delay in replying - unfortunately I had a burglary the other week at home where I had very expensive gardening equipment stolen - there is a feeling that 'they may be back' so I have been busy building Fort Knox here in the meantime, together with alarms and CCTV !  This is the world that we live in nowadays it seems sadly ...

Anyway, back to the digger I have now noticed that the shaft on the top hydraulic cylinder is bent (this accounts for why there is a leaky seal on this one !).  Any thoughts of whether this could be straightened under a press or where a replacement could be obtained and what cost ?  I need to replace all the main pins and bushes to start with and wonder whether these can be got easily of if it might be cheaper to make them (mild steel or tougher ?).  Have a bad hydraulic leak on a lower left hand connector which it seems has been bent and possibly fractured.  Is there a known source of these connectors and rubber pipes or better still anyone anywhere who could make up a complete set for a reasonable price to be sure that these would be 100%.

Regards, Joe

(based midway between Staines (Middx) and Windsor (Berks))

[Rspblake]

Joe sorry to here your troubles.

[rspb...@aol.com]

Any replacement work on the cylinder shaft could be costly, think anything can be straighten to a good degree..
Its more down to condition of the surface of the shaft, dents cuts digs rust etc, high edges need to be flatten...It may always leak but it wont tear the seals.
I am sure that a slightly bent ram with new seals would be fine.

Any ram by nature has to leak a little, this is to oil the surface area between the seal and shaft, its the amount that leaking is the problem. lol

If well bent and digged then replacement is best.. looking around £300 / £400 for a shaft approximate, I know Chris selwyn-smith had one carried out not long ago..

Me, I would use Steve at Hydraquip in Redhill, get it priced to compare.. ( used for years )
 
You could just try a set of seals in it and see what happens..these are listed on one of Chris posts.

Bushes Ahh...I thought all the bushes would be a standard Du white shelled bush, I was wrong.. the main cylinders have a spring steel bush, these are thicker so the 2820Du bush is only 32mm OD not the needed 34mm.

I am ordering some the right size now, about £4 each.. but mine have very little play so i don't think they need it..The rest are Du so far I have found in the arms.. 
I use Orbic Bearing in Croydon, but theres lots of places online.

Pins, if I had to make would be made of mild steel En8, I would check wear, as its more likely the bushes.. mine had bushes missing still worked..:-)

I did find the grease point had gone solid, so make sure that bit works when the pin is out, End of the day its a digger a little play is fine.. I got carried away trying to get every bit of play out of my 125w....Didn't work any better...

Not sure of the area that's leaking you talk about.. if it's the quick release connection for wheels, O ring inside can be replaced..

If not Pirtek normally have connector on the shelf.. They are costly on other bits pipes being one of them..

If you need to replace all hoses email me I'll fwd a link to where i got a load made for my 125w, all I did was ordered the length from the parts book.

Rob

[David Chandler]

Yes I bent a ram, got carried away and the bucket tooth was just under a corner of the stabaliser pad ...can not lift its self.  I streightened the ram using a ratchet strap as tight as possible  then hydraulics to help bend back the ram. Did not take long and actualy went back OK, checked with strieght edge and for damage to surface of ram. I then turned the ram shaft round 180 degrees so if weakend one way its the opposite way to what caused it. After several jobs later still a strieght ram and the seals don't leek and I was lucky all went well. Just cover any ram shaft with rags so as to not damage the surface and only a bit at a time.

 I have a few local hydraulic firms nearby prices differ  by up to 3X the prices  of the cheepest, I use the cheepest as they are a small firm intrested in old and wierd  machines (yes I took my 125WT to them to have look at and a play) talking to them they would have strieghtened the ram if possible before trying to sell me new one, the pricy firm a large crane and plant  repair firm would have sold a new ram £££££££

 

Best of luck and dig on

 

Dave C

Chesterfield

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