AZ Copper Complete

[Patti]

The "complete mix" that I've been working on (and Courtney pushed me a bit on) is done and we have a name and number to order it from HorseTech.

The complete information on the new mix, AZ Copper Complete is in the group files - click here to see the downloadable PDF. (If the link doesn't work for you, go to the files at http://groups.google.com/group/desertequinebalance/files and look at AZ Copper Complete.pdf.

The only thing needed with this supplement is 1-3 oz plain salt. The "standard" serving size is 5 ounces (140 grams) - there is a weight-based feeding chart in the pdf which considers both weight and amount of forage intake. There is overlap in the chart to allow for working horses who may eat more forage, etc. By following the guideline, your horse should get enough iodine, selenium, vitamin E and chromium in line with their weight and feed intake. You can comfortably go to the higher rate in your horse's range; doubling the amount of supplement shown, while not advised, is entirely safe and will still be lower than NRC maximum limits.

The chromium level should be sufficient for Insulin Resistant (IR) horses and is fine for non-IR horses. The reasoning behind giving chromium at all is that it is often deficient in hay grown in arid soils - which means it would be deficient for every horse eating these hays, not just IR horses. 

The magnesium is 5 grams in a standard (5 ounce) serving. Some horses - IR not responding to low sugar/starch diet, drafts, warmbloods or others with EPSM/PSSM - may benefit from higher levels of magnesium but these higher levels shouldn't be given to horses who don't need it. The same is true for higher levels of vitamin E - AZ CC has 4,000 IU in a standard (5 ounce) serving, more won't hurt but there isn't a reason to give it if the horse doesn't need it.

I have consistently been "tweaking" the AZ Regional Mix that I give my own horses to increase copper and zinc and to add chromium and iodine, plus amino acids (or whey protein) for my DSLD mare.  I just sat and did a cost comparison between the new AZ Copper Complete and the AZ Regional Mix "tweaked" to the same levels as provided in the AZ CC - 

$1.49/day - AZ Regional Mix 3 oz,  plus Tri-Amino, Chromium Yeast, Source for iodine, additional vitamin E, poly copper and poly zinc 

$1.27/day - AZ Copper Complete 5 oz

I didn't include the cost of salt, which runs about 3-5 cents/day or yeast which runs about 18 cents/day - and not everyone wants to feed.

For healthy horses with no issues the AZ Regional still remains a good all-around basic supplement when given with iodized salt. But in the years since I developed that mix I've seen iron levels in our hay creep up, needing higher levels of copper and zinc to counter, and have seen more horses on single variety hays who could benefit from some form of protein/amino acid boost.

I think Rod at HorseTech did a good job keeping the cost as low as possible - I've yet to see comparable supplements (iron-free, no excessive vitamin A, etc.) for less. (And just for those who aren't aware, I receive no compensation for the "AZ" supplements that HorseTech sells. I realized that trying to profit from these supplements would only inflate the price, which would go against my goals of education and improving the welfare of your horses.)

Take a look at the PDF and let me know if you have any questions.

--
Patti Woodbury-Kuvik
PO Box 759
Vail AZ 85641
Desert Equine Balance
http://desertequinebalance.blogspot.com/
Desert Equine Balance SW Equine Nutrition group
http://groups.google.com/group/desertequinebalance

Check Out the New EC Website
http://www.ecirhorse.com/

Giving KFG a Leg Up!!!!
http://parityquest.blogspot.com/

[Carol Grubb]

Wow Patti, looks really terrific!!!!!!  thanks for doing that!

 

Carol

---

From: Patti <desert...@gmail.com>
To: desertequ...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 2:11:35 PM
Subject: [DesertEquineBalance] AZ Copper Complete

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[Patti Woodbury-Kuvik]

Thanks Carol. I've been working on my first bucket and, so far, my
guys are liking it. I really didn't expect the cost savings over the
"tweaked" AZ Regional - actually I thought it would come out even, so
I'm even more pleased.

Patti

On Jul 5, 2:29 pm, Carol Grubb <headma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Wow Patti, looks really terrific!!!!!!  thanks for doing that!
>
> Carol
>
> ________________________________

> From: Patti <deserthor...@gmail.com>

> To: desertequ...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 2:11:35 PM
> Subject: [DesertEquineBalance] AZ Copper Complete
>
> The "complete mix" that I've been working on (and Courtney pushed me a bit on) is done and we have a name and number to order it from HorseTech.

> The complete information on the new mix, AZ Copper Complete is in the group files - click here to see the downloadable PDF. (If the link doesn't work for you, go to the files at http://groups.google.com/group/desertequinebalance/filesand look at AZ Copper Complete.pdf.
>

[Carol Grubb]

me too!!!!  

---

From: Patti Woodbury-Kuvik <desert...@gmail.com>
To: DesertEquineBalance <desertequ...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 2:43:00 PM
Subject: [DesertEquineBalance] Re: AZ Copper Complete

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[myble...@aol.com]

GREAT JOB, Patti!  The AZ Copper Complete is really going to be helpful for a lot of people.  You are amazing!

Thanks for all of your hard work to help keep our 4-legged kids healthy!

Shelly

[letha....@vaisala.com]

I agree,,,,Patti,,,you have REALLY helped so many and so many horses.  You take something very confusing for the average person and make it “understandable” and make it work.

 

Thanks so much!

Letha

 

 

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[donna]

On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Patti <desert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Take a look at the PDF and let me know if you have any questions.

Hi Patti, so would this supplement work better for this hay or would I
go with my worksheet. I usually just ask for the minerals but I also
add Vit E 2000 IU and Selenium 2 mg to my order. I don't ask for
other vitamins.

Thanks Donna

[Patti]

Hi Donna ~

Nice calcium and protein level in this hay; the ESC+starch at 12.2% is a little high if your horse is IR but fine if he's not or if he's working.

AZ Copper Complete would work well with your hay analysis except you still need to add some phosphorus to bring the Ca:P ratio in line. It's difficult to supplement high levels of phosphorus because of palatability (phosphorus is one of the things that made detergents smell like "soap"), but just adding 5 grams would bring the Ca:P down to 2.7:1. You'd get about 1/2 gram P from 4 oz flaxseed, and another gram if you added 4 oz rice bran (which can be difficult to find w/o added calcium) or wheat bran.

But, if your horses are doing well without the "extras" (amino acids, higher E, B-vitamins, etc.), no reason not to continue what you're doing. Make sure your iodine falls somewhere in between 3 and 5 mg/day (whether from iodized salt, Source or added to your custom mix). Iodine is an "easy" add to your custom mix and lets you use plain salt - easier to buy in bulk.

Patti 

[Kathy Baker]

>
> I have consistently been "tweaking" the AZ Regional Mix that I give my own horses to increase copper and zinc and to add chromium and iodine, plus amino acids (or whey protein) for my DSLD mare.  I just sat and did a cost comparison between the new AZ Copper Complete and the AZ Regional Mix "tweaked" to the same levels as provided in the AZ CC - 

Are adding whey protein specifically for the DSLD mare? If so why does this help?

Thank you,
Kathy Baker
(new member)

[Patricia Woodbury-Kuvik]

Hi Kathy ~  

At the time 9three years ago) I was concerned she wasn't getting enough protein/amino acids, or the DSLD might affect how she metabolized them.  At age ten, she had the "look" of a PPID horse - dropped topline, etc..  Choli was so up and down - she'd look great for a couple of months then fall apart , and I wanted to make sure she had the "building blocks" to do the best she could do.  She was on ALCAR/J-herb, never did well on AAKG (the standard DSLD protocol).  

The AZ CC has lysine, methionine and threonine.  But I still like using whey protein isolate when CP needs a boost as I like it's completeness.

The one thing I might have tried had I thought about it was AniGest http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=d37c9ba4-e9d0-4a54-a64c-7ec134abe325.  Claire just started it with one of her horses and we were wondering if it might not make a difference with the high ADF/NDF Bermuda hay we get in this area. It's basically digestive enzymes. I'm going to try it on one or two of mine before I decide.

Patti

Vail AZ

[Leslie Maynard]

I really liked the results when i added Anigest. 

Leslie 

Benson AZ

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Leslie Maynard 

www.AculifeSW.com 

www.BestVetSW.com 

[courtney vincent]

hey leslie

very cool on the anigest, just looked it up

email me, i have been meaning to touch base with you and not sure i have the right email

7850 N Silverbell Rd

114-168

Tucson,Az 85743

This email was sent from my iPhone and written by Siri, please excuse spelling or context mistakes.

[Patricia Woodbury-Kuvik]

Leslie ~ 

What kinds of changes did you see?

Patti  

On Thursday, October 3, 2013 8:21:27 PM UTC-7, Leslie wrote:

I really liked the results when i added Anigest. 

Leslie 

Benson AZ

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Patricia Woodbury-Kuvik <Desert...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kathy ~  

At the time 9three years ago) I was concerned she wasn't getting enough protein/amino acids, or the DSLD might affect how she metabolized them.  At age ten, she had the "look" of a PPID horse - dropped topline, etc..  Choli was so up and down - she'd look great for a couple of months then fall apart , and I wanted to make sure she had the "building blocks" to do the best she could do.  She was on ALCAR/J-herb, never did well on AAKG (the standard DSLD protocol).  

The AZ CC has lysine, methionine and threonine.  But I still like using whey protein isolate when CP needs a boost as I like it's completeness.

The one thing I might have tried had I thought about it was AniGest http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=d37c9ba4-e9d0-4a54-a64c-7ec134abe325.  Claire just started it with one of her horses and we were wondering if it might not make a difference with the high ADF/NDF Bermuda hay we get in this area. It's basically digestive enzymes. I'm going to try it on one or two of mine before I decide.

Patti

Vail AZ

[Leslie Maynard]

Better coat on my 2 horses that have wire-y hair, better topline. Actually only had to use Anigest for about 3 months and its seems to have done the trick. Have not used it now for 4 months. Nothing else has worked. 

Leslie

Benson AZ

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