My adventure with leadscrews

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David Kahler

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Apr 8, 2017, 7:10:30 PM4/8/17
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Not knowing much about leadscrews or how to switch over to them, I decided to embark on this adventure in a quest for more rigidity, accuracy and reliability on my X and Y axes. I am going to attempt to document this as thoroughly as possible, so other people can use this information and feel confident that they can also do this.

First of all, many thanks to other trailblazers that have crafted their own leadscrew mods:

- And especially Robert Greene, whose design I borrowed most heavily from: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cyclone-pcb-factory/g2huv8I7bCs

If you haven't tried it, Onshape is wonderful. This is my first foray into CAD, and I tried many different applications. Onshape is really easy to use and very powerful. Best of all, you don't need a beefy machine to use it. I've even done some light editing on my phone.

My github RAMPS firmware fork is here: https://github.com/dakahler/grblForCyclone
This fork changes the firmware's leadscrew settings to work with the TR8x8 leadscrews.

Here are the exact materials I used, so that you can buy them, print my mods, and everything should just work:

- Leadscrew (x2), 250mm length: https://www.smw3d.com/8mm-acme-screw/

The pulley designs are on the same Onshape page.

All full size photos are here: https://goo.gl/photos/WbYWj658FJ4PoaUs8

Before I go into all the details, here's the final assembled machine for reference:



The X- and Y-axis anti-backlash nuts are different because the X-axis one is too large to fit on the Y-axis. There isn't enough clearance between the stepper and the electronics housing. The larger X-axis one is higher quality, but the Y-axis one seems to work fine so far. The tight clearance for the Y-carriage piece took a lot of work for such a simple looking item. Here are most of the prototypes I went through before I worked out all the kinks:


And here is the close-to-final product. I ended up having to shave a couple mm off the stepper side after this:


As you can see in the final render:



The file on Onshape for this piece is admittedly very messy. I'm hoping to go back and clean it up so it's easier for others to modify.



For the X carriage, I mostly just used Robert's design. I did have to tweak the hole spacing for the nut and add a bit of extra relief so it could fit.











Finally, here are videos of it in action:


https://youtu.be/MKKkd1OxqMw

https://youtu.be/xzYRk1a-g5o


This has been a really neat project. Definitely worth the time and effort.




David Kahler

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Apr 8, 2017, 7:24:59 PM4/8/17
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One other note: due to how tight the clearance is on the Y carriage and how small the anti-backlash nut is, I had to tap the piece for the M3 bolts that hole the nut in place, rather than use captive nuts. It remains to be seen if this will hold up over time, though the nut is a good friction fit in its inset. There's a chance it would work fine not being secured at all.

Carlos García

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Apr 16, 2017, 6:53:12 PM4/16/17
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Hi David, your build is awesome! It definitely has inherited a lot from Robert's and other builds in the forum (remixing them with other smart designs :D).
I did not know of Onshape, it looks like a good tool (only shame it is not open source :P). Thanks for sharing the "shopping list" as well to facilitate replication :)
A brief guide would indeed be very helpful to newcomers (newmillers?), so looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Carlos

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:24 AM, David Kahler <daka...@gmail.com> wrote:
One other note: due to how tight the clearance is on the Y carriage and how small the anti-backlash nut is, I had to tap the piece for the M3 bolts that hole the nut in place, rather than use captive nuts. It remains to be seen if this will hold up over time, though the nut is a good friction fit in its inset. There's a chance it would work fine not being secured at all.

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Lars Mielchen

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Apr 26, 2017, 5:00:55 PM4/26/17
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Hey David, i wanted to export the Files of your moddes parts, but i cant export the two pulleys. Looks like they're messed up. 

Could you maybe please check whats going on there, or could you provide the STL-Files?

Appreciate your work

Thanks

 

David Kahler

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Apr 26, 2017, 7:24:12 PM4/26/17
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Yeah OnShape is weird with imported meshes. I added the stl files. You should be able to right click the tab in the OnShape document and choose "Download".

Lars Mielchen

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Apr 27, 2017, 5:52:12 AM4/27/17
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Tahnk you! ;)

David Kahler

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Apr 27, 2017, 10:00:32 PM4/27/17
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I ended up completely redesigning the pulleys, as I wasn't happy with a few dimensions and only had STL files to work with. The new pulleys are in the OnShape document referenced in the first post, as well as Thingiverse here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2279677

Lars Mielchen

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Apr 28, 2017, 8:33:02 AM4/28/17
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Ok, thanks. Will Reprint them.

I have one more question the X-Carriage holder. Did you use normal Threaded Rods for it? Because i can just find Leaded Nuts with 17mm outer size. The threaded nuts have 13mm.

I redesigned the nut shape of your X-Carriage, but i don't know if it will fit because the LM8UU will overlap then. Here's the source: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/5901d22abad09910e5e660f3/w/8ecefe20465f75ec0a453391/e/23d3edec75415784d45210c4

Lars Mielchen

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Apr 28, 2017, 9:21:34 AM4/28/17
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Hmm i just found the Geekcrit Anti-Backlash Nuts (larger ones?!) 

ordered two of them, hopefully they will fit in the x-carriage

Lars Mielchen

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Apr 28, 2017, 10:52:35 AM4/28/17
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Hey David, i have big troubles to edit the X-Carriage to fit the alternate anti-backslash nut :(

Could you help me or edit it for my purpose please?


Sorry for asking, but i cant edit it properly. Tried 3 hours and did not get a working result

David Kahler

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Apr 28, 2017, 11:35:21 AM4/28/17
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https://cad.onshape.com/documents/58db54d63d69580f7f18f6a8/w/58efc1a8bc462461d2c54d96/e/7c6821f4b933d30787af58e4

Give the "alt" one a shot. Kind of hard to say if it will work without being able to test fit the part myself, but it should be close.

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Lars Mielchen

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Apr 28, 2017, 1:11:56 PM4/28/17
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Thank you so much! :)

Had serious trouble to modify it by myself, because I don't know much about onshape. Working with Autocad here. Tried to import it with no luck

If its too small, I'm going to scale it 0.5% larger.


Am Freitag, 28. April 2017 17:35:21 UTC+2 schrieb David Kahler:
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/58db54d63d69580f7f18f6a8/w/58efc1a8bc462461d2c54d96/e/7c6821f4b933d30787af58e4

Give the "alt" one a shot. Kind of hard to say if it will work without being able to test fit the part myself, but it should be close.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:52 AM, 'Lars Mielchen' via Cyclone PCB Factory <cyclone-p...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hey David, i have big troubles to edit the X-Carriage to fit the alternate anti-backslash nut :(

Could you help me or edit it for my purpose please?


Sorry for asking, but i cant edit it properly. Tried 3 hours and did not get a working result

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David Kahler

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May 27, 2017, 1:37:31 PM5/27/17
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I noticed a few issues that bugged me about the X frames, so I redesigned them a bit. Issues:

1. The leadscrew had a little play within the bearings.
2. Properly securing the leadscrew required putting some amount of lateral pressure on the frames, causing them to bend inward a bit.
3. The connection to the base isn't as sturdy as I'd like.
4. The frames are 5mm too high to fit on my printer :P

I fixed this by:

1 & 2: Upgrading to a pillow bearing that bolts to the frame and then secures to the leadscrew via two set screws.
3: Upgraded base bolts to M4.
4. Chopped down the frames by 5mm.

These are the pillow bearings I used:








Left X Frame.stl
Right X Frame.stl

Nando

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May 27, 2017, 3:07:45 PM5/27/17
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Nice one.
Leadscrews will be my next upgrade, I'm still using threaded rods and noticed exactly the same issue.
I couldn't understand why I had so much noise/vibration and eventually found it was the rods loose on the bearings as they had
some play. I just fixed it wrapping a bit the rods with tape. :)



-Nando
Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

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Iceflow

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May 27, 2017, 7:58:02 PM5/27/17
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Incredible update indeed!! :D its a pleasure watching projects like this evolve and upgrade!! Nice machine!!

2017-05-27 21:07 GMT+02:00 Nando <nan...@gmail.com>:
Nice one.
Leadscrews will be my next upgrade, I'm still using threaded rods and noticed exactly the same issue.
I couldn't understand why I had so much noise/vibration and eventually found it was the rods loose on the bearings as they had
some play. I just fixed it wrapping a bit the rods with tape. :)



-Nando
Sent from my Sinclair ZX81
On 27 May 2017 at 18:37, David Kahler <daka...@gmail.com> wrote:
I noticed a few issues that bugged me about the X frames, so I redesigned them a bit. Issues:

1. The leadscrew had a little play within the bearings.
2. Properly securing the leadscrew required putting some amount of lateral pressure on the frames, causing them to bend inward a bit.
3. The connection to the base isn't as sturdy as I'd like.
4. The frames are 5mm too high to fit on my printer :P

I fixed this by:

1 & 2: Upgrading to a pillow bearing that bolts to the frame and then secures to the leadscrew via two set screws.
3: Upgraded base bolts to M4.
4. Chopped down the frames by 5mm.

These are the pillow bearings I used:








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David Kahler

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Jun 12, 2017, 2:32:43 PM6/12/17
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I finally got around to upgrading the XZ-carriage assembly for improved ridigity. This ended up being a significantly customized version of the gantry designed by Manuel Palacios, mentioned in the OP.





It still uses the SMW3D anti-backlash nut on the X axis, and a regular leadscrew nut on the Z. It's pretty remarkable how much rigidity this change adds to the whole machine.

Files available on thingiverse here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2380780

Nando

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Jun 12, 2017, 3:17:05 PM6/12/17
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That looks solid. 
May pick it up and convert to the normal threaded rod and a spindle. 

I'm curious about base / wasteboard. Can you easily use any size pcb? 

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David Kahler

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Jun 12, 2017, 3:34:08 PM6/12/17
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I haven't measured what the new working area is, but it's definitely smaller.

On Jun 12, 2017 12:17 PM, "Nando" <nan...@gmail.com> wrote:
That looks solid. 
May pick it up and convert to the normal threaded rod and a spindle. 

I'm curious about base / wasteboard. Can you easily use any size pcb? 
Em 12/06/2017 19:32, "David Kahler" <daka...@gmail.com> escreveu:
I finally got around to upgrading the XZ-carriage assembly for improved ridigity. This ended up being a significantly customized version of the gantry designed by Manuel Palacios, mentioned in the OP.





It still uses the SMW3D anti-backlash nut on the X axis, and a regular leadscrew nut on the Z. It's pretty remarkable how much rigidity this change adds to the whole machine.

Files available on thingiverse here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2380780

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Nando

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Jun 12, 2017, 7:44:08 PM6/12/17
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Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant in the black base itself.
Not understanding how you hold the boards to cut. 


-Nando
Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

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David Kahler

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Jun 12, 2017, 7:46:41 PM6/12/17
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Double-sided tape :)

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Nando

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Jun 13, 2017, 5:52:34 AM6/13/17
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Nice. :)) 

A friend just made me some new plates and I'll use double side tape as well. 
But want to see if i get another method.

Double-sided tape :)

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IMG_20170613_104417.jpg

Nando

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Aug 9, 2017, 7:04:42 AM8/9/17
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Quick question on the leadscrews length.
I saw these in banggood already with the anti-backlash, question is the length to get.

Does the 200mm will fit or is better to get 2x 300mm, I'm just trying to avoid and having to cut it.

I guess I'd get:
1x 100mm
1x 200mm
1x 300mm

Cheers


-Nando
Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

Anton Krug

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Aug 21, 2017, 6:08:11 PM8/21/17
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I try to do my Y lead screw upgrade as well. But is there some more information about it?

The Cyclone_with_spindles folder contains files which fit my leadscrew and my motor. but i'm not 100% where i should put lock nut, where they would be best on a frame, if the teplates exists for it as well. The generic one was done with templates and now i'm worried I will get the dimensions or the locations wrong.

Plus I'm confused about the parts, the motor holder looks like has space for bearing where a coupling would makes sense to me, and on other side there should backplate bolted to it while I think lock nut would be there better. I'm not sure even the order of installation, the new board holder looks is installed in opposite order than I'm used to.

Does anybody have expierence with the Y axis upgrade based on the files from the repository?

David Kahler

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Aug 25, 2017, 9:17:04 PM8/25/17
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There's a lot of questions here, and it's not entirely clear what you're asking. Can you clarify?

David Kahler

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Aug 26, 2017, 1:25:30 PM8/26/17
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Just measured. Here's about the minimum length for each axis:

X: 290mm
Y: 230mm
Z: 140mm
Double-sided tape :)

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Nando

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Aug 26, 2017, 4:17:30 PM8/26/17
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Thank you David.
Next week I'll order them and start the upgrades.


-Nando
Sent from my Sinclair ZX81

Double-sided tape :)

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Anton Krug

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Sep 2, 2017, 6:54:10 AM9/2/17
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I think my confusion started that I posted on wrong forum, you are talking about your designs on thingiverse, I was talking about the strange files on the github, there is a directory which looks like modifications for a lead screw but are very odd.

Nando

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Sep 16, 2017, 12:53:24 PM9/16/17
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All parts received. It's modding time.

One question I have is about the X gantry did you loose much working area with it? May do a new base a bit wider to compensate for it if that's the case.
It does fix one issue with the default version, that is you can't totally lower the Z when the X gantry is all the way to the left / right.




-Nando
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David Kahler

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Sep 16, 2017, 12:56:38 PM9/16/17
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Yes, you do lose some working area. I haven't measured how much.

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Nando

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Sep 16, 2017, 1:05:15 PM9/16/17
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One last question. (i hope :) )
Have you considered splitting the X gantry into 4 pieces?

I was looking at it in Oneshape as I may need to change it slightly to fit my spindle and at the moment it will take 
quite some time to print due to the Z height and require some support.
There is one big cyclone that followed that approach, the X gantry is composed of several parts that attach to each other making
it easy to print.


-Nando
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David Kahler

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Sep 16, 2017, 2:19:24 PM9/16/17
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Not a bad idea. If you come up with something, please share!

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Nando

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Jan 24, 2018, 5:51:50 AM1/24/18
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Revisiting this. I had put this on hold due to some other projects but I'm picking it up again now.

Starting with testing wit all the parts already done.
I need to so some minor changes to fit my base to the X side parts but I've noticed that the X Left side part seems broken in Onshape.

I've only started using OnShape now so I'm a bit lost, is there a way to fix/revert the part?

Thanks


-Nando
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David Kahler

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Jan 24, 2018, 2:22:30 PM1/24/18
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Weird, you're right, something is messed up. Maybe OnShape changed some stuff and broke it. I'll try to look in more detail tonight.

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David Kahler

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Jan 27, 2018, 10:44:06 AM1/27/18
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Figured it out... make sure you're set to the "B1" branch. That's the latest and greatest.

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Nando

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Jan 27, 2018, 11:07:56 AM1/27/18
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Cool, thanks for fixing it. I was just missing the left X panel.
Picked the ipt files from bQ to make the changes to only after realizing your X panels are shorter :)


-Nando
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David Kahler

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Jan 27, 2018, 11:09:40 AM1/27/18
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Yep had to shorten them to fit on my printer.

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Nando

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Jan 31, 2018, 5:32:31 AM1/31/18
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Thanks a lot David for the help.
Machine is ready!



One final question, in case you're using GRBL, did you update the feed rates?
Using 200 seems too low for so few steps/mm, I bumped to 400 but I guess as this is now solid it should 
be able to go even higher.​

-Nando
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David Kahler

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Jan 31, 2018, 9:48:47 AM1/31/18
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Awesome!! I did experiment with higher feed rates, and it seemed fine. I went back down for troubleshooting some stuff at some point. Would be interested to see what works for you.

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Nando

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Jan 31, 2018, 10:04:04 AM1/31/18
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I've settled with 400 for all 3 axis (the Z axis now can easily handle it as well). 
Still tried 600 but noticed some harmonic vibrations, My LMU bearings were recycled from my printer and have lots of play
some may be even be missing some bearing balls.

But I'm happy with the results, nice straight lines and round shapes come out good.

This was old gcode example I had and I need now to tune it as it cutting too much.​


-Nando
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