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What monitor do you use with your Apple II?
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Matthew Power
Oct 18, 2016, 11:00:25 PM10/18/16
to
With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text is illegible.
I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable. It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger size over the TI as well...
I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable. It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger size over the TI as well...
I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
Nick Westgate
Oct 18, 2016, 11:39:09 PM10/18/16
to
The Night Owl composite monitor (and another version with a different stand)
were pretty popular, but aparanely it's been discontinued.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MUCOBW/
There's Plamen's VGA solution:
http://a2heaven.com/webshop/index.php?rt=product/product&path=72&product_id=142
There'e also new and more general HDMI unit coming from Henry Courbis.
Estimated price is US$150.
Cheers,
Nick.
were pretty popular, but aparanely it's been discontinued.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MUCOBW/
There's Plamen's VGA solution:
http://a2heaven.com/webshop/index.php?rt=product/product&path=72&product_id=142
There'e also new and more general HDMI unit coming from Henry Courbis.
Estimated price is US$150.
Cheers,
Nick.
David Schmidt
Oct 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM10/18/16
to
big-box store years ago that had a ton of inputs (including SCART) based
on inputs alone. Nishida Radio's adapters really shine with RGB on both
IIe and IIgs:
http://tulip-house.ddo.jp/DIGITAL/ANALOG_RGB_COMPONENT/english.html
http://tulip-house.ddo.jp/DIGITAL/A2ECOMP/english.html
But for real NTSC bleed, I really like my Commodore 1701.
Some additional discussion on the topic:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.apple2/azQKC6bzuCo/49WLdZOrwt0J
Mark D. Overholser
Oct 19, 2016, 12:50:48 PM10/19/16
to Matthew Power
On 18-Oct-16 20:00, Matthew Power wrote:
> With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor
> (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very
> good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it
> cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets
> all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode,
> the text is illegible.
>
> I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable.
> It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
>
That is nice to have a matched TI-99 4/A.
> With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor
> (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very
> good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it
> cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets
> all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode,
> the text is illegible.
>
> I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable.
> It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
>
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought
> there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but
> apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
>
columns and have a Monochrome Switch, which clips the Color Burst
Signal. I also have an Amdek I Color Monitor and the Apple Monitor ///,
in the typical Green.
> The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a
> composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger
> size over the TI as well...
>
but if you get the C128 Monitor, it should...
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I
> suppose...
>
one..
MarkO
Matthew Power
Oct 19, 2016, 7:56:25 PM10/19/16
to
> There's Plamen's VGA solution:
> http://a2heaven.com/webshop/index.php?rt=product/product&path=72&product_id=142
I sent an email to a2heaven, that card looks awesome.
> http://a2heaven.com/webshop/index.php?rt=product/product&path=72&product_id=142
Matt
Michael J. Mahon
Oct 20, 2016, 2:48:37 AM10/20/16
to
If you want to see original game graphics as their creators intended, you
need an analog composite monitor.
If you want readable, non-fringed 80-column text, you need either a
monochrome monitor or the AppleColor //e or //c monitor. This is not like
any other composite monitor, in that its monochrome mode (text screen or
manually selected mode) has a much higher bandwidth than its color mode.
This allows crisp 80-column text *and* authentic color rendition, which
otherwise would require two separate monitors--a very common Apple II setup
in the 1980s.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Ed's Universe of Interest
Oct 20, 2016, 8:52:38 AM10/20/16
to
As everyone has said, it really does depend on what you are looking to do. However, if small size isn't an issue, a modern solution that I found is the Pyle Audio PLHR70. It's one of those backup camera screens people add to cars. I found mine on Amazon for under $30 and while it is a widescreen LCD, it supports direct composite and is switchable from 16:9 aspect (decent for Apple //e 80 column text) to 4:3 aspect (color games). Colors seemed fairly accurate, but the bandwidth of this screen is obscene and there are black lines showing up in the color modes sometimes (depends on the color). Only issue is it needs a 12VDC power supply (not included) in order to work.
I did make a video of it working (beware this video does NOT do the colors of the output justice). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujs0isHC1nU&feature=em-upload_owner
I did make a video of it working (beware this video does NOT do the colors of the output justice). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujs0isHC1nU&feature=em-upload_owner
Matthew Power
Oct 20, 2016, 8:10:39 PM10/20/16
to
Ed, I really enjoyed your video! I liked the point you made about people not updating what solution worked / didn't work.
I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
Steve Nickolas
Oct 20, 2016, 10:04:49 PM10/20/16
to
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016, Matthew Power wrote:
> I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
You ain't whistling Dixie. I've wanted a Monitor ][ or /// for years.
> I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
-uso.
Michael J. Mahon
Oct 20, 2016, 11:34:08 PM10/20/16
to
They will only cost a few dollars and no shipping (and the damage that it
often does to monitors).
A few years back I got an AppleColor 100 (RGB) that way for $40!
Steve Nickolas
Oct 21, 2016, 12:29:00 AM10/21/16
to
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Steve Nickolas <usot...@buric.co> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016, Matthew Power wrote:
>>
>>> I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
>>
>> You ain't whistling Dixie. I've wanted a Monitor ][ or /// for years.
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>
> You have to look locally, at thrift stores, yard sales, or Craig's List.
> They will only cost a few dollars and no shipping (and the damage that it
> often does to monitors).
The days of finding computer equipment at thrift stores are pretty much
> Steve Nickolas <usot...@buric.co> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Oct 2016, Matthew Power wrote:
>>
>>> I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
>>
>> You ain't whistling Dixie. I've wanted a Monitor ][ or /// for years.
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>
> You have to look locally, at thrift stores, yard sales, or Craig's List.
> They will only cost a few dollars and no shipping (and the damage that it
> often does to monitors).
over where I live. The only computer equipment you're liable to find is
keyboards and mice.
Though to be fair, I *could* stand to look out for tag sales. The few
I've seen around were mostly just old clothes and maybe some beat-up toys,
at best maybe a late-90s era television missing its wand.
But to be fair, this isn't the kind of city where Apple or even Commodore
stuff would have been very common.
-uso.
Tempest
Oct 21, 2016, 9:31:30 AM10/21/16
to
>> I'd love to get a //e monitor, but the prices on those scare me away.
I knew I should have picked up a spare when they were cheaper. My Composite Monitor IIe is starting to make some high pitched noises now and then so I'm thinking that something is going on it. I guess when the time comes I'll have to get it fixed rather than buying a new one. Then again since this is my original monitor from back in the day that was probably going to be the plan anyway.
Ed's Universe of Interest
Oct 21, 2016, 9:44:27 AM10/21/16
to
Tempest
Oct 21, 2016, 10:28:29 AM10/21/16
to
I actually have a nice PVM monitor that I can use with my Apple in a pinch, but the colors are slightly different. Not really off, but more pure and less dithered and it makes some games look a bit weird. Sort of like playing Apple II stuff on a IIgs with an RGB monitor but not quite as bad.
Bill Garber
Oct 21, 2016, 11:25:39 AM10/21/16
to
"Tempest" wrote in message
news:e58ca904-44df-4d6c...@googlegroups.com...
I had, I began buying up all the VGA output devices that were being
designed. My IIgs's both have CB-II cards running my modification
of Charlie's bitstream. My IIc+ uses a converter that plugs into the
monitor output and has a VGA outlet for a VGA cable. Also, my //e
uses the Ramworks VGA converter from A2Heaven. They all work
very well on any and all of my LCD monitors. I have no more CRT
screens in the house. 1-800-GOT-JUNK got them all before I made
the move to this place earlier this year. Anyway, my suggestion to
all is to get the VGA conversion devices that you can scrounge up.
Bill Garber * http://www.sepa-electronics.com *
Michael J. Mahon
Oct 21, 2016, 2:54:58 PM10/21/16
to
output transformer and the deflection yoke. They both have ferrite cores
driven by powerful horizontal frequency signals.
The cause is usually mechanical in origin, and can often be lessened or
eliminated by adjusting the clamping (but *not* clamping of the yoke to the
neck of the CRT) or mounting. Dabbing gaps in the ferrite core with varnish
(usually red high-voltage insulating glyptal) can also help silence them.
If (horrors!) the sound is being produced by corona or an actual arc (both
visible in a darkened environment), the area of the discharge should be
cleaned of dust and carbonization and coated with a couple of coats of
glyptal.
All the usual warnings about working inside CRT monitors apply, of course.
;-)
Tempest
Oct 21, 2016, 3:31:47 PM10/21/16
to
Michael J. Mahon
Oct 21, 2016, 4:20:58 PM10/21/16
to
Delfs
Oct 21, 2016, 4:21:02 PM10/21/16
to
On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 10:00:25 PM UTC-5, Matthew Power wrote:
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution?.
Maybe instead of a scan doubler trying to meet a potentially finiky "VGA" monitor's needs, get a TV display that meets your II needs. They are modern, flat, energy efficient, come in all sizes from 4 to 60 inches.
I've been using color TVs for my Apple II forever, I like the larger size I compared to a standard 'real' II monitor. Ever since they came out with flat panels with composite inputs they have run my Apple IIs quite well. Even before that, most devices I tried with a composite input works for things I do on my Apple IIs, read light use/ gamer/ occasional productivity. (OK a VCR composite input generally is well less than satisfactory, avoid those!)
My TVs have also had VGA connectors since about 1995 and several of them are excellent to synch my IIgs video with a strait RGB pin crossover. They upscale the IIgs super hi res with some limited banding, some better than others, all are quite workable. Somewhere I have a smallish Gateway 2000 (model 200 maybe) overhead projector that works falwlessly with the IIg signal, seen at Avila more thatn a few years ago.
The newer 40" flat panel has not been tested with the IIgs RGB but makes the best IIe display yet.
So to everyone trying to shoehorn/ expand your composite into a monitor not designed for the II video signal, try a TV, old or new, 4" to 60". Those will be the practical solution for the next 10 years. How much longer may be in question though, the newest TVs I've looked at only have digital inputs.
Delfs
Aha: https://www.cnet.com/products/gateway-projector-210/review/
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution?.
Maybe instead of a scan doubler trying to meet a potentially finiky "VGA" monitor's needs, get a TV display that meets your II needs. They are modern, flat, energy efficient, come in all sizes from 4 to 60 inches.
I've been using color TVs for my Apple II forever, I like the larger size I compared to a standard 'real' II monitor. Ever since they came out with flat panels with composite inputs they have run my Apple IIs quite well. Even before that, most devices I tried with a composite input works for things I do on my Apple IIs, read light use/ gamer/ occasional productivity. (OK a VCR composite input generally is well less than satisfactory, avoid those!)
My TVs have also had VGA connectors since about 1995 and several of them are excellent to synch my IIgs video with a strait RGB pin crossover. They upscale the IIgs super hi res with some limited banding, some better than others, all are quite workable. Somewhere I have a smallish Gateway 2000 (model 200 maybe) overhead projector that works falwlessly with the IIg signal, seen at Avila more thatn a few years ago.
The newer 40" flat panel has not been tested with the IIgs RGB but makes the best IIe display yet.
So to everyone trying to shoehorn/ expand your composite into a monitor not designed for the II video signal, try a TV, old or new, 4" to 60". Those will be the practical solution for the next 10 years. How much longer may be in question though, the newest TVs I've looked at only have digital inputs.
Delfs
Aha: https://www.cnet.com/products/gateway-projector-210/review/
Steven Hirsch
Oct 22, 2016, 10:04:26 AM10/22/16
to
On 10/21/2016 11:25 AM, Bill Garber wrote:
> When I tired of searching for working monitors, or repairing the ones
> I had, I began buying up all the VGA output devices that were being
> designed. My IIgs's both have CB-II cards running my modification
> of Charlie's bitstream. My IIc+ uses a converter that plugs into the
> monitor output and has a VGA outlet for a VGA cable. Also, my //e
> uses the Ramworks VGA converter from A2Heaven. They all work
> very well on any and all of my LCD monitors. I have no more CRT
> screens in the house. 1-800-GOT-JUNK got them all before I made
> the move to this place earlier this year. Anyway, my suggestion to
> all is to get the VGA conversion devices that you can scrounge up.
What Bill said... After an almost decade-long quest for reasonable CRT
> When I tired of searching for working monitors, or repairing the ones
> I had, I began buying up all the VGA output devices that were being
> designed. My IIgs's both have CB-II cards running my modification
> of Charlie's bitstream. My IIc+ uses a converter that plugs into the
> monitor output and has a VGA outlet for a VGA cable. Also, my //e
> uses the Ramworks VGA converter from A2Heaven. They all work
> very well on any and all of my LCD monitors. I have no more CRT
> screens in the house. 1-800-GOT-JUNK got them all before I made
> the move to this place earlier this year. Anyway, my suggestion to
> all is to get the VGA conversion devices that you can scrounge up.
replacements I have almost all my vintage boxes talking to modern display
devices. I'll second the recommendation on the A2Heaven adapters. Plamen did
a great job on the IIe (Ramworks) and IIc converters. For ROM3 IIGS, Nishida
Radio has a terrific solution, although he's often out of stock on them.
6502en...@gmail.com
Oct 22, 2016, 2:14:51 PM10/22/16
to
Apple Monitor II
Acer Projector with Composite
TCL flat screen with Composite
Acer Projector with Composite
TCL flat screen with Composite
roger....@gmail.com
Oct 22, 2016, 8:18:08 PM10/22/16
to
I've spent far too much time and money lately on retrocomputing and monitors.
Forget about 80 column text on a vintage monitor. Before the IIGS, having both color and monochrome displays were common when developing Apple II software.
4:3 LCD monitors are just barely available (mainly used for security cameras it seems) and from what I've experienced, they're of nominal quality. 80 columns look okay...when it works. I have a 12" that doesn't sync to Apple II composite video but a 15" works fine.
Some caveats about Plamen's (a2heaven.com) VGA converters:
* They output 720x480. I've got one of the last aperture grille CRTs and it doesn't support that; neither does my 15" LCD. (The 12" works.)
* //c+: A timing change on the //c+ can result in flakey output.
* I thought some of the colors were off. (Maybe a //c thing.)
So I'm primarily using a 15" 4:3 LCD with composite.
One thing I haven't done yet is to find a smallish TV (no larger than 17") with a composite input. (I looked a bit, and these tend to have built in DVD playsrs. Ugh.)
Forget about 80 column text on a vintage monitor. Before the IIGS, having both color and monochrome displays were common when developing Apple II software.
4:3 LCD monitors are just barely available (mainly used for security cameras it seems) and from what I've experienced, they're of nominal quality. 80 columns look okay...when it works. I have a 12" that doesn't sync to Apple II composite video but a 15" works fine.
Some caveats about Plamen's (a2heaven.com) VGA converters:
* They output 720x480. I've got one of the last aperture grille CRTs and it doesn't support that; neither does my 15" LCD. (The 12" works.)
* //c+: A timing change on the //c+ can result in flakey output.
* I thought some of the colors were off. (Maybe a //c thing.)
So I'm primarily using a 15" 4:3 LCD with composite.
One thing I haven't done yet is to find a smallish TV (no larger than 17") with a composite input. (I looked a bit, and these tend to have built in DVD playsrs. Ugh.)
Bill Garber
Oct 22, 2016, 10:28:52 PM10/22/16
to
wrote in message
news:2b1398f2-c40d-4409...@googlegroups.com...
Have you tried Newegg? Sometimes they have great refurbished LCD TVs with
every input you'd ever want. All of mine, including monitors are from
Newegg,
except one that I got from a neighbor where I used to live. Just stay away
from
outside vendors that use Newegg as an outsource retailer, as a lot of Amazon
are.
You need to revisit frequently until they have what you want.
news:2b1398f2-c40d-4409...@googlegroups.com...
every input you'd ever want. All of mine, including monitors are from
Newegg,
except one that I got from a neighbor where I used to live. Just stay away
from
outside vendors that use Newegg as an outsource retailer, as a lot of Amazon
are.
You need to revisit frequently until they have what you want.
Bill Garber
Oct 23, 2016, 1:17:19 AM10/23/16
to
wrote in message
news:2b1398f2-c40d-4409...@googlegroups.com...
Jerome Vernet
Oct 23, 2016, 4:40:29 AM10/23/16
to
Le 19/10/2016 à 05:00, Matthew Power a écrit :
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
>
I'm using the IIgs Color Monitor with an RVB card (Le Chat Mauve). It's
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
>
perfect, for color, 40 or 80 text.
JV
Jonathan Nemo
Oct 23, 2016, 11:13:48 AM10/23/16
to
I have one of Roger Johnstone's SCART cables ( http://roger.geek.nz/scart.html ) for the IIgs, which is running through a SCART adapter made for the Micomsoft XRGB-Mini Framemeister, which is converting the RGB video signal to an HDMI output. Which plugs into anything.
This is an expensive solution, mainly for the cost of the Framemeister alone and for how highly sought after that upscaler has become for vintage gaming enthusiasts.
However, it's probably one of the most future proof options, given that most every large-ish monitor sold in the last five years has an HDMI input. No need for extra cards either, just cables.
This is an expensive solution, mainly for the cost of the Framemeister alone and for how highly sought after that upscaler has become for vintage gaming enthusiasts.
However, it's probably one of the most future proof options, given that most every large-ish monitor sold in the last five years has an HDMI input. No need for extra cards either, just cables.
mmphosis
Oct 23, 2016, 3:55:28 PM10/23/16
to
Matthew Power
Oct 23, 2016, 9:49:56 PM10/23/16
to
Do the Commodore monitors handle 80 col mode well?
roger....@gmail.com
Oct 25, 2016, 12:00:35 AM10/25/16
to
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 8:49:56 PM UTC-5, Matthew Power wrote:
> Do the Commodore monitors handle 80 col mode well?
If you're serious about a vintage composite monitor, track down an Apple Color Composite. There are a few of them on eBay at the moment. It's the only color composite monitor that I'm aware of that was designed for 80 columns.
> Do the Commodore monitors handle 80 col mode well?
If you don't mind two monitors, find a monochrome and get splitter for the video.
Bill: Yeah, I usually check Newegg too. Small TVs are 32" or smaller!
Asides from security cameras, small monitors today seem to be for SUV/minivan/RV use. I'm not expecting much quality.
Nootrac90
Oct 27, 2016, 10:47:43 AM10/27/16
to
I have a 20" Dell 2001FP that uses the composite cable and works pretty well.
Dana
Ralph Glatt
Oct 27, 2016, 12:25:15 PM10/27/16
to
On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:00:35 AM UTC-4, roger....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 8:49:56 PM UTC-5, Matthew Power wrote:
> > Do the Commodore monitors handle 80 col mode well?
>
> If you're serious about a vintage composite monitor, track down an Apple Color Composite. There are a few of them on eBay at the moment. It's the only color composite monitor that I'm aware of that was designed for 80 columns.
I thought the Color Composite couldn't do 80 columns in color? I think I remembered it doing color, and 80 columns, but not at the same time.
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 8:49:56 PM UTC-5, Matthew Power wrote:
> > Do the Commodore monitors handle 80 col mode well?
>
> If you're serious about a vintage composite monitor, track down an Apple Color Composite. There are a few of them on eBay at the moment. It's the only color composite monitor that I'm aware of that was designed for 80 columns.
Tempest
Oct 27, 2016, 12:52:25 PM10/27/16
to
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 12:25:15 PM UTC-4, Ralph Glatt wrote:
> I thought the Color Composite couldn't do 80 columns in color? I think I remembered it doing color, and 80 columns, but not at the same time.
It can do both. The later Infocom games like Zork Zero have both color and 80 columns.
> I thought the Color Composite couldn't do 80 columns in color? I think I remembered it doing color, and 80 columns, but not at the same time.
Michael J. Mahon
Oct 27, 2016, 11:46:08 PM10/27/16
to
When it's in mono mode, it's a quite acceptable monochrome monitor (12 MHz
bandwidth).
No other analog composite color monitor could do that trick.
Michael J. Mahon
Oct 27, 2016, 11:46:09 PM10/27/16
to
four lines under the graphics screen.
Ralph Glatt
Oct 28, 2016, 10:02:27 AM10/28/16
to
Kevin Dady
Oct 28, 2016, 12:11:34 PM10/28/16
to
On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 10:00:25 PM UTC-5, Matthew Power wrote:
> With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text is illegible.
>
> I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable. It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
>
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
>
> The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger size over the TI as well...
> With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text is illegible.
>
> I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable. It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
>
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
>
> The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger size over the TI as well...
>
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
I use a cheap 13 inch HDTV, works great in high res text
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
Scott Alfter
Oct 28, 2016, 3:50:55 PM10/28/16
to
In article <20443035-3641-466b...@googlegroups.com>,
monitors from back in the day that would sync down to 15.75 kHz; the "Mac
adapter" bundled with it works.
It's not without its issues, though; the raster starts out stretched
vertically and doesn't settle down until it's been on for something like
5-10 minutes. I've been trying to have a replacement lined up for it, and I
might've found something usable: a 15" Sharp LCD TV (don't remember the
model offhand, but it's old enough that it only has an analog tuner and the
component input is probably only good for 480p at best, if not 480i only) I
picked up cheap at Goodwill recently that has component input. I had put
together an RGB-to-component adapter a while back; it drives this TV without
issue. 80-column text is a bit fuzzier than I'd like, but is reasonably
legible if you pick something other than the default white-on-blue. (IIRC,
black-on-green looked clearest.)
I also tried plugging the output of the RGB-to-component converter into a
cheap component-to-HDMI converter I picked up a while back, but the IIGS's
video timing is off enough that it wouldn't work. Feeding the component
output to other TVs and monitors was a bit hit-or-miss. I hoped originally
to use it with a 21" (?) Samsung monitor I used to have for my other
computers, but it wouldn't sync. The no-name 30something" TV in the bedroom
doesn't work either, but the 52" (?) Toshiba in the living room does.
Maybe I should invest in one of those XRGB-whatever converters that someone
else mentioned. They seem to get good reviews from those who have them.
Someone even mentioned using one with a VGA-to-HDMI adapter, which would
connect to everything likely to come down the pike for the foreseeable
future.
As for my 8-bit IIs, I have an Apple Monitor II green-screen (came with my
first IIe back in '85) and a Zenith amber-screen (from a garage sale in the
'90s).
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Matthew Power <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor
>(designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very
>good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it
>cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all
>wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text
>is illegible.
I have an NEC MultiSync 3D for use with my IIGS. It's one of the few VGA
>With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor
>(designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very
>good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it
>cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all
>wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text
>is illegible.
monitors from back in the day that would sync down to 15.75 kHz; the "Mac
adapter" bundled with it works.
It's not without its issues, though; the raster starts out stretched
vertically and doesn't settle down until it's been on for something like
5-10 minutes. I've been trying to have a replacement lined up for it, and I
might've found something usable: a 15" Sharp LCD TV (don't remember the
model offhand, but it's old enough that it only has an analog tuner and the
component input is probably only good for 480p at best, if not 480i only) I
picked up cheap at Goodwill recently that has component input. I had put
together an RGB-to-component adapter a while back; it drives this TV without
issue. 80-column text is a bit fuzzier than I'd like, but is reasonably
legible if you pick something other than the default white-on-blue. (IIRC,
black-on-green looked clearest.)
I also tried plugging the output of the RGB-to-component converter into a
cheap component-to-HDMI converter I picked up a while back, but the IIGS's
video timing is off enough that it wouldn't work. Feeding the component
output to other TVs and monitors was a bit hit-or-miss. I hoped originally
to use it with a 21" (?) Samsung monitor I used to have for my other
computers, but it wouldn't sync. The no-name 30something" TV in the bedroom
doesn't work either, but the 52" (?) Toshiba in the living room does.
Maybe I should invest in one of those XRGB-whatever converters that someone
else mentioned. They seem to get good reviews from those who have them.
Someone even mentioned using one with a VGA-to-HDMI adapter, which would
connect to everything likely to come down the pike for the foreseeable
future.
As for my 8-bit IIs, I have an Apple Monitor II green-screen (came with my
first IIe back in '85) and a Zenith amber-screen (from a garage sale in the
'90s).
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
doug....@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2016, 8:20:50 AM10/29/16
to
I just picked up a PVM (Pro Video Monitor) and it's a Sony PVM-1342Q. There are a couple variants, with the 1344 supporting component video (YCbCr), and the one I have supporting TTL RGB instead.
Got it home for basic testing and alignment. It's yoke is rotated just a smidge. Easy fix there.
While I have a lot of devices and video combinations to try, I did give my //e a quick run today, and oh man! These things can really deliver on a basic composite signal. The CRT shadow mask dot pitch looks like 4X any consumer grade device I've ever used.
Couple of nice features:
--Has a quick, monochrome only mode, driven on the "blue" channel. For composite, this translates into a pushbutton "no color" option that works great for 80 column text. While not quite as good as a monochrome composite display, like the Monitor ///, it's damn good. This is basically the "Apple Color Monitor" option button feature.
--The "aperature" or we know it as, "sharpness", control has a lot of range, and unlike most consumer grade devices, this thing just gets sharper without a lot of ghosting and fringing. Result is near pixel perfect HGR graphics. Single pixels of color, show up as such, and while the color of the pixel is position dependent, the amount of fringing can vary from the usual consumer grade TV display (significant enough to blend pixels together), to a razor sharp series of lines or individual pixels. (almost no fringing) There is a lot of range on this, and you can likely get the look you want with plenty of room to spare on the sharper, individual pixel end of things.
--These displays will take 15Khz RGB! Should display my GS native video right out of the box! I have not had a GS capable display ever. Support for 15Khz RGB should work out the same as an older "multi-sync" VGA monitor would, and likely perform better as these were reference displays for pro-broadcast use.
--Has TTL RGB input too. Useful, if you have PC class hardware or cards.
--It's possible to find these things cheap. If you encounter one, and it hasn't been abused, they are worth the money. The CRT in them is basically VGA quality, as are the circuits, but they operate at TV frequencies, which is rare these days. Killer combination!
--Did a quick DVD viewing, and yeah. It's pretty.
Very highly recommended for DHGR, 80 column, HGR, etc... the set of 8 bit graphics options. Best CRT I've ever looked at with support for "TV" frequencies. I expect to recommend it highly as a GS display too, once I've connected it to verify all is good there.
Prior to getting this thing, I was using a dual setup, with a monochrome amber screen and 80's era, small TV with composite input capability. Works great, so long as you aren't doing anything much with a GS.
Got it home for basic testing and alignment. It's yoke is rotated just a smidge. Easy fix there.
While I have a lot of devices and video combinations to try, I did give my //e a quick run today, and oh man! These things can really deliver on a basic composite signal. The CRT shadow mask dot pitch looks like 4X any consumer grade device I've ever used.
Couple of nice features:
--Has a quick, monochrome only mode, driven on the "blue" channel. For composite, this translates into a pushbutton "no color" option that works great for 80 column text. While not quite as good as a monochrome composite display, like the Monitor ///, it's damn good. This is basically the "Apple Color Monitor" option button feature.
--The "aperature" or we know it as, "sharpness", control has a lot of range, and unlike most consumer grade devices, this thing just gets sharper without a lot of ghosting and fringing. Result is near pixel perfect HGR graphics. Single pixels of color, show up as such, and while the color of the pixel is position dependent, the amount of fringing can vary from the usual consumer grade TV display (significant enough to blend pixels together), to a razor sharp series of lines or individual pixels. (almost no fringing) There is a lot of range on this, and you can likely get the look you want with plenty of room to spare on the sharper, individual pixel end of things.
--These displays will take 15Khz RGB! Should display my GS native video right out of the box! I have not had a GS capable display ever. Support for 15Khz RGB should work out the same as an older "multi-sync" VGA monitor would, and likely perform better as these were reference displays for pro-broadcast use.
--Has TTL RGB input too. Useful, if you have PC class hardware or cards.
--It's possible to find these things cheap. If you encounter one, and it hasn't been abused, they are worth the money. The CRT in them is basically VGA quality, as are the circuits, but they operate at TV frequencies, which is rare these days. Killer combination!
--Did a quick DVD viewing, and yeah. It's pretty.
Very highly recommended for DHGR, 80 column, HGR, etc... the set of 8 bit graphics options. Best CRT I've ever looked at with support for "TV" frequencies. I expect to recommend it highly as a GS display too, once I've connected it to verify all is good there.
Prior to getting this thing, I was using a dual setup, with a monochrome amber screen and 80's era, small TV with composite input capability. Works great, so long as you aren't doing anything much with a GS.
Matthew Power
Oct 29, 2016, 9:01:06 PM10/29/16
to
The responses to this topic have all been great! One in particular, sorry I'd have to re-read all to say from whom... said basically "Use a TV."
So I found a Panasonic 20-inch CRT TV with RCA video-in on Craigslist for $20. It was 5 minutes from my house, even! Works great. The color bleed was rather strong until I dialed it all down, and now I just have this HUGE color monitor sitting on top of my Apple II and two floppy drives. The colors are great, and while 80-column mode isn't exactly crystal-clear, it's legible. I loaded up Ultima IV, and it looks amazing.
My girlfriend thinks I'm nuts for having this huge thing on top of a 30+ year old computer... Ha!
So this $20 gamble has informed me that if I find a cheap flat-screen TV with modern high resolution, it would be a worthy gamble again...
Thanks to everyone who responded. I've learned a lot.
So I found a Panasonic 20-inch CRT TV with RCA video-in on Craigslist for $20. It was 5 minutes from my house, even! Works great. The color bleed was rather strong until I dialed it all down, and now I just have this HUGE color monitor sitting on top of my Apple II and two floppy drives. The colors are great, and while 80-column mode isn't exactly crystal-clear, it's legible. I loaded up Ultima IV, and it looks amazing.
My girlfriend thinks I'm nuts for having this huge thing on top of a 30+ year old computer... Ha!
So this $20 gamble has informed me that if I find a cheap flat-screen TV with modern high resolution, it would be a worthy gamble again...
Thanks to everyone who responded. I've learned a lot.
Kevin Dady
Nov 1, 2016, 9:37:17 AM11/1/16
to
SHartz40
Feb 3, 2017, 8:02:36 AM2/3/17
to
Ed, does it hook up directly to the composite port? Would it work on a llgs?
Ken C
Feb 3, 2017, 9:11:36 AM2/3/17
to
I have two A2M6014 Applecolor RGB monitors, one RGB cable, and one A2M6016 Monochrome monitor, all working, that I will give away if someone will come and pick them up. I'm in the northwest Phoenix area (Surprise, AZ).
Ken C
Ken C
Delfs
Feb 4, 2017, 5:54:09 AM2/4/17
to
Was this question for me? I've used both composite and 15pin to 15 pin adapter on my older HDTVs, and gotten fantastic results from the IIc composite and the IIgs RGB video out ports. Trick is it really needs to be from the 90s/2000s to support the upscale of the 15kHz signal with the synch signals on the color lines. I've never split/inverted the synch signals.
Ed's Universe of Interest
Feb 4, 2017, 10:51:40 AM2/4/17
to
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 8:02:36 AM UTC-5, SHartz40 wrote:
> Ed, does it hook up directly to the composite port? Would it work on a llgs?
It will work with the composite video port of the IIgs, but I can't speak to the quality of the video output. I don't own a IIgs and can't really test the quality, but it's my understanding that the IIgs video is at it's best quality when used with some sort of compatible RGB display. However, finding that may be easier said than done, I suppose it wouldn't look too bad if you set the computer up correctly, but I can't imagine GS/OS looking all that great with it. Text mode perhaps, but not GUI. Like I said, from my perspective it's only speculation as I don't own a IIgs. :/
> Ed, does it hook up directly to the composite port? Would it work on a llgs?
Michael J. Mahon
Feb 4, 2017, 10:27:16 PM2/4/17
to
composite color monitor
6502en...@gmail.com
Mar 18, 2017, 3:04:17 PM3/18/17
to
Apple Monitor II, Sanyo VM 4509, Benq Projektor.
leelan...@gmail.com
Mar 18, 2017, 3:40:42 PM3/18/17
to
On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 10:00:25 PM UTC-5, Matthew Power wrote:
> With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text is illegible.
>
> With my IIe I'm currently using a Texas Instruments Color Monitor (designed for the TI-99 4/A), but honestly that monitor is not very good. I know it's kinda rare... but the colors are terrible, and it cannot handle Apple IIe hi-res very well (the top of the screen gets all wonky). Also, it's too small. When I switch to 80 column mode, the text is illegible.
>
> I think the TI monitor is more of collectors item than it is usable. It does look good on top of my TI Peripheral Expansion Box, lol!!!
>
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
>
> The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger size over the TI as well...
>
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
I'm currently using an Emerson 22" LCD flat panel TV that has a composite input. It is only a 720p TV but it works reasonably well as a monitor. Of course it has zero vintage vibe. But it is also a lot lighter than a vintage CRT monitor.
>
> Back to the Apple II, what is a good monitor solution? I thought there might be a good composite-to-VGA solution out there, but apparently that's not the case. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.
>
> The only monitor I can think of is the Commodore 1701. It has a composite input, and it looks like it holds up over the years. Bigger size over the TI as well...
>
> I'd love to put a 17" VGA on this Apple IIe but dreaming I suppose...
Michael J. Mahon
Mar 18, 2017, 3:49:59 PM3/18/17
to
For more transportability, the 8" (?) LCD Black Hawk security monitor is
quite readable and displays graphics well--and it runs on 12v!
You can probably find them on eBay for $30 or less.
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