Tested: Is a $400 iPhone SE really faster than the most powerful Android phone, the $1,400 Galaxy S20

Arlen Holder

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May 22, 2020, 2:09:08 PM5/22/20

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Tim Cook says:
o "It's faster than the fastest Android phones"... but is it true?"

"Even though the Galaxy S20 Ultra has better specs in just about every
department, when it comes to performance, this is about the processor in
the iPhone SE versus the processor in the flagship Samsung."

All verbatim quotes:
o "There's no way to sugarcoat this: the results are quite damning."
o "Geekbench tells a similar story. The single-threaded score for the
Galaxy S20 Ultra is 913, more than 30% lower than the iPhone SE's 1,328.
However, the S20 Ultra does bounce back with a good multi-threaded score
of 3,303, a number that the iPhone SE can't beat. It scores 2,673."
o "AnTuTu paints a more favorable picture for S20 Ultra giving it a
score of 547,698 compared to 375,748 for the iPhone SE.
Digging a bit deeper into the AnTuTu scores for the iPhone SE shows
that it suffers during the multi-threading testing, something
confirmed by Speed Test G and Geekbench."

Tested:
*Is a $400 iPhone SE really faster than the most powerful Android phone?*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-se-vs-most-powerful-android-galaxy-s20-ultra-1120575/>
o Apple A13 Bionic vs Qualcomm Snapdragon 865
o $400 2020 2nd-gen iPhone SE vs $1,400 Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra
o iPhone SE vs iPhone 11 Pro Max: Is it just as powerful?

See chart:
<https://cdn57.androidauthority.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Speed-Test-G-iPhone-SE-2020-vs-S20-Ultra-720p-results-1200x675.jpg>
(new only) SE 39.5 vs (new or old) S20 38.5 CPU score
(new or old) S20 24.8 vs (new only) SE 20.5 Mixed score
(new or old) S20 17.7 vs (new only) SE GPU score
-------------
(new only) SE 1:15.0 vs (new or old) S20 1:21.2

There's also a comparison of the $400 SE to the iPhobne 11 Pro Max...
o "The story is repeated with AnTuTu: 505,552 for the iPhone 11 Pro Max,
but only 375,748 for the iPhone SE — a drop of 25%. Looking at the
CPU Multi-Core breakdown, AnTuTu scores the iPhone 11 Pro Max at 84,782
whereas the iPhone SE gets just 58,349 — a 30% dip."
<https://cdn57.androidauthority.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SpeedTest-G-iPhone-SE-2020-vs-iPhone-11-Pro-Max-results-1200x675.jpg>

Bringing TRUTH to these newsgroups via consistent application of fact.
--
Keep in mind the stark undeniable & extremely important basic fact almost
all new iPhones have throttling software quietly added about a year or so
after release (more new iPhones have been added in every single iOS relesae
since and including iOS 10!) after about a year, some to less than half
their original benchmark scores (which is how they found the secret
throttling in the first place).

Hence, the _only_ reliable iPhone benchmark, is about half of when new.
Still - these numbers, new only, are pretty good given the price
differential.

badgolferman

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May 22, 2020, 2:15:23 PM5/22/20

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What are some examples of single thread and multi thread usage?

--
"The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex
for money costs less." ~ Brendan Francis

Alan Baker

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May 22, 2020, 2:20:19 PM5/22/20

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On 2020-05-22 11:09 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> Tim Cook says:
> o "It's faster than the fastest Android phones"... but is it true?"

First let's see the source of your quote.

I don't trust a word you say without sources.

> but only 375,748 for the iPhone SE ¡X a drop of 25%. Looking at the

> CPU Multi-Core breakdown, AnTuTu scores the iPhone 11 Pro Max at 84,782

> whereas the iPhone SE gets just 58,349 ¡X a 30% dip."

nospam

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May 22, 2020, 2:59:40 PM5/22/20

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In article <xn0me7sh6...@nntp.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> What are some examples of single thread and multi thread usage?

most stuff is single threaded, especially on android.

Arlen Holder

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May 22, 2020, 6:51:45 PM5/22/20

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On Fri, 22 May 2020 14:59:39 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> What are some examples of single thread and multi thread usage?
>
> most stuff is single threaded, especially on android.

The $400 iPhone SE* fared admirably well against the $1,400 S20!

Other than Tim Cook's claims, this is our first FACTUAL test of:
o Apple A13* Bionic (new) vs Qualcomm Snapdragon 865 (new or old)

What's interesting is how FANTASTICALLY the SE* did compared to the S20!
o Given we're pitting a $400 phone* against a $1,400 phone!

Under that metric, I think the Apple phone did admirably well, in fact.
o And, as nospam intimated, multi-threading performance may be secondary.

By all counts, the SE* single-threaded CPU performance was exemplary.
o We just need to dig deeper into why or how multi-threading matters...

If there are adults on this newsgroup, who don't just spout Apple MARKETING
mantra, it would be interesting to note _when_ SE* multi-threading matters,
or if it doesn't matter for what _you_ use a phone for. (Factual details.)
--
(*)It's not fair to claim any current iPhone benchmark score without adding
an asterisk that these scores will likely no longer be attainable after
only about a year later in use unless the iPhone battery is replaced
roughly about yearly.

sms

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May 22, 2020, 7:22:54 PM5/22/20

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On 5/22/2020 11:15 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> What are some examples of single thread and multi thread usage?

The benchmarks are interesting, but the fact is that either phone has a
processor fast enough to not have any lag. No one is going to make their
choice based on which processor has a higher benchmark. Looking only at
benchmarks is ridiculous, especially in this case where the S20 models
do beat the SE (and the iPhone 11 Max) in some benchmarks and lose to it
in other benchmarks.

This reminds me of cellular carriers that make a huge deal over speed
tests and insist that they have the "fastest LTE network" as if anyone
cares about 120Mb/s versus 100Mb/s. What matters much more is if you
actually have coverage.

And of course comparing MSRPs is meaningless since Samsung phones are
heavily discounted. I think that Samsung sets the MSRPs high to avoid
looking like their phones have lower value to consumers than iPhones.

The iPhone SE is well-priced phone for those committed to the iOS
ecosystem, but the fact that it shares the same processor with the
flagship iPhones is of little value.

<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pZUosOQndD_tNAuUYsMUDfk36FIUKGo8ISPxS2Wyv6s/>

Alan Baker

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May 22, 2020, 7:29:49 PM5/22/20

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On 2020-05-22 3:51 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 14:59:39 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>>> What are some examples of single thread and multi thread usage?
>>
>> most stuff is single threaded, especially on android.
>
> The $400 iPhone SE* fared admirably well against the $1,400 S20!
>
> Other than Tim Cook's claims, this is our first FACTUAL test of:
> o Apple A13* Bionic (new) vs Qualcomm Snapdragon 865 (new or old)

Interesting. So that's a fact, is it: that this is the first "FACTUAL
test" between the two?

1:
<https://versus.com/en/apple-a13-bionic-vs-qualcomm-snapdragon-865>

2:
<https://beebom.com/snapdragon-865-vs-apple-a13-bionic/>

3:
<https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-865-vs-apple-a13-bionic>

Shall I go on?

Because I can.

:-)

nospam

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May 22, 2020, 7:32:28 PM5/22/20

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In article <ra9msd$mu6$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> This reminds me of cellular carriers that make a huge deal over speed
> tests and insist that they have the "fastest LTE network" as if anyone
> cares about 120Mb/s versus 100Mb/s. What matters much more is if you
> actually have coverage.

you're contradicting yourself again.

you keep saying how much 5g will matter and now you say it doesn't.

> And of course comparing MSRPs is meaningless since Samsung phones are
> heavily discounted. I think that Samsung sets the MSRPs high to avoid
> looking like their phones have lower value to consumers than iPhones.

iphones are also heavily discounted.

walmart is offering the iphone se 2nd gen for $200 and t-mobile is
offering it for free with a trade-in of an older phone.

> The iPhone SE is well-priced phone for those committed to the iOS
> ecosystem, but the fact that it shares the same processor with the
> flagship iPhones is of little value.

actually, it's a significant value, since the phone se will have the
same level of support as the flagship iphone 11, which is five years
based on previoius iphones.

the samsungs will get 2 years of support, maybe 3.

Arlen Holder

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May 22, 2020, 7:44:08 PM5/22/20

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On Fri, 22 May 2020 11:20:58 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> I don't trust a word you say without sources.

FACT:
The source is trivially easy to verify - even for Apple apologists:
o Given the quotes came from the very same article that was cited.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VLWBp7Sd/timcook.jpg>

LOGIC:
Why don't the Apple aficionados set these Type III apologist straight?
o The fact apologists can't even _click_ on the links... is telling.

OBSERVATION:
Apologists tend to attempt to refute facts _before_ even reading them!
--
Why do apologists brazenly deny even the most easily verified facts?

Alan Baker

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May 22, 2020, 7:46:49 PM5/22/20

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On 2020-05-22 4:44 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 11:20:58 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> I don't trust a word you say without sources.
>
> FACT:
> The source is trivially easy to verify - even for Apple apologists:
> o Given the quotes came from the very same article that was cited.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/VLWBp7Sd/timcook.jpg>

And yet rather than provide an ACTUAL original source, you provide a
screenshot instead.

What is the ORIGINAL SOURCE for that statement, Arlen?

What ELSE might he have said?

:-)

Arlen Holder

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May 22, 2020, 7:52:41 PM5/22/20

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On Fri, 22 May 2020 16:22:51 -0700, sms wrote:

> The benchmarks are interesting, but the fact is that either phone has a
> processor fast enough to not have any lag. No one is going to make their
> choice based on which processor has a higher benchmark. Looking only at
> benchmarks is ridiculous, especially in this case where the S20 models
> do beat the SE (and the iPhone 11 Max) in some benchmarks and lose to it
> in other benchmarks.

Hi Steve,

Given you're a TYPE II apologist, it's important to remind you of facts:
o TYPE II === not malicious, but tend to prefer to be ignorant of facts.

For you TYPE II apologists, I think the critically important point to
remind you is that *Tim Cook made some pretty bold and brazen claims*.

Those bold and brazen claims by Apple MARKETING (which Tim Cook simply
parrots), are of import in this discussion of (new) SE versus (new & old)
S20 CPU benchmark scores... (note: SE scores will likely be dropped in
"about a year" if Apple continues the trend of adding more and more iPhones
to its throttling software in each and every major release of iOS).

In summary, Steve...
What we're discussing here is the validity of Tim Cook's own claims.
o Where, the 2020 iPhone SE(*) fared reasonably well in (new) benchmarks.

But, where Tim Cook, as always, took clever license with his brazen claims.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VLWBp7Sd/timcook.jpg>
--
Apologists tend to easily lose sight of the factual focus of a discussion.

Alan Baker

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May 22, 2020, 8:11:43 PM5/22/20

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On 2020-05-22 4:52 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 16:22:51 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> The benchmarks are interesting, but the fact is that either phone has a
>> processor fast enough to not have any lag. No one is going to make their
>> choice based on which processor has a higher benchmark. Looking only at
>> benchmarks is ridiculous, especially in this case where the S20 models
>> do beat the SE (and the iPhone 11 Max) in some benchmarks and lose to it
>> in other benchmarks.
>
> Hi Steve,

Hi, Arlen!

I'm going to snip your most egregious bullshit and only deal with the
deflection.

> Those bold and brazen claims by Apple MARKETING (which Tim Cook simply
> parrots), are of import in this discussion of (new) SE versus (new & old)
> S20 CPU benchmark scores... (note: SE scores will likely be dropped in
> "about a year" if Apple continues the trend of adding more and more iPhones
> to its throttling software in each and every major release of iOS).

(Note: that your statement is in no way factual, but rather a guess)

>
> In summary, Steve...
> What we're discussing here is the validity of Tim Cook's own claims.
> o Where, the 2020 iPhone SE(*) fared reasonably well in (new) benchmarks.

Weird.

Here's what YOUR SOURCE said:

'There’s no way to sugarcoat this: the results are quite damning.

The $399 iPhone SE clearly beats the $1,399 Galaxy S20 Ultra overall.'

Weird how you left that very conclusive statement out of your original
post, and instead paired the "quite damning" statement with parts of the
article that are farther down.

>
> But, where Tim Cook, as always, took clever license with his brazen claims.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/VLWBp7Sd/timcook.jpg>
>

Like you took license not to mention the most comprehensive statement of
the situation overall from your own source?

'The $399 iPhone SE clearly beats the $1,399 Galaxy S20 Ultra overall.'

Arlen Holder

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May 22, 2020, 8:15:28 PM5/22/20

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On Fri, 22 May 2020 19:32:28 -0400, nospam wrote:

> you keep saying how much 5g will matter and now you say it doesn't.

I don't think the article focused on 5G, so much as CPU benchmarks.
o In those benchmarks, the SE* fared reasonably well against the S20.

However, the salient point was that Tim Cook's claims, were, ahem,
questionable, IMHO, given that the benchmarks of the SE* weren't always
better than that of the S20.

However, anyone who posts facts will be welcomed by me
o I love facts!

*What we need to gather are more facts for badgolferman's logical question*
o For example: *When do multi-threading benchmark scores really matter?*

And, why does the iPhone SE* fare poorly in that even against the 11?

> iphones are also heavily discounted.
> walmart is offering the iphone se 2nd gen for $200 and t-mobile is
> offering it for free with a trade-in of an older phone.

This is a rare situation where nospam's claims are actually correct.
o Both phones are heavily discounted

But there is no doubt the SE* fared well against a more expensive phone.

> actually, it's a significant value, since the phone se will have the
> same level of support as the flagship iphone 11, which is five years
> based on previoius iphones.
>
> the samsungs will get 2 years of support, maybe 3.

The sad thing about TYPE I apologists like nospam is...
o Is they incessantly parrot what turns out to be meaning MARKETING mantra.

Even as it's clear they don't believe, themselves, what they claim.
o It's almost as if nospam (figuratively) gets paid by Apple MARKETING.

See:
o When apologists claim iOS is "safer" than Android simply because of the "frequency" of release...
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/voFbGKpUoBo>
--
(*) NOTE: It's not fair for anyone to claim any current iPhone benchmark
score is reliable without always adding the important asterisk that these
scores will likely not be attainable after only about a year in use (unless
the iPhone battery is periodically replaced roughly about yearly or unless
the user voluntarily opts for undesired instability, which is the only
other choice).

Alan Baker

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May 22, 2020, 8:33:29 PM5/22/20

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On 2020-05-22 5:15 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 19:32:28 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> you keep saying how much 5g will matter and now you say it doesn't.
>
> I don't think the article focused on 5G, so much as CPU benchmarks.
> o In those benchmarks, the SE* fared reasonably well against the S20.
>
> However, the salient point was that Tim Cook's claims, were, ahem,
> questionable, IMHO, given that the benchmarks of the SE* weren't always
> better than that of the S20.
>
> However, anyone who posts facts will be welcomed by me
> o I love facts!
>
> *What we need to gather are more facts for badgolferman's logical question*
> o For example: *When do multi-threading benchmark scores really matter?*
>
> And, why does the iPhone SE* fare poorly in that even against the 11?

Your source explained it:

'However, personally I think it is about cooling. The iPhone SE is a
much smaller device. Smaller means there is less surface area to
dissipate heat. When the processor gets warm then iOS is forced to lower
the clock speeds until the temperate drops. Remember, these are
passively cooled devices, no fans. From using the iPhone SE and the
iPhone 11 Pro Max side by side for the last few days, it is clear that
the iPhone SE is running warmer to the touch. Also my initial testing of
the performance of the SE when running hot shows a significant
performance drop. When my testing is complete I will make a video on the
Speed Test G channel.'

So not quite the mystery you want, is it?

>
>> iphones are also heavily discounted.
>> walmart is offering the iphone se 2nd gen for $200 and t-mobile is
>> offering it for free with a trade-in of an older phone.
>
> This is a rare situation where nospam's claims are actually correct.
> o Both phones are heavily discounted
>
> But there is no doubt the SE* fared well against a more expensive phone.

There is no doubt that your source declared it the victor against a
phone costing 3.5 times as much:

'The $399 iPhone SE clearly beats the $1,399 Galaxy S20 Ultra overall.'

Alan Baker

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May 24, 2020, 9:45:13 PM5/24/20

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Actual facts too much for you, Arlen?

:-)

Alan Baker

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May 24, 2020, 9:46:14 PM5/24/20

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No pithy come back about how you only post facts and how "apologists"
hate facts, Arlen?

Nothing?

:-)

Alan Baker

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May 24, 2020, 9:47:53 PM5/24/20

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You agree, right?

It is a FACT that YOUR source stated:

'The $399 iPhone SE CLEARLY BEATS the $1,399 Galaxy S20 Ultra overall.'
[Emphasis mine].

You agree that's true, right?

sms

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May 25, 2020, 10:11:49 AM5/25/20

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On 5/22/2020 11:15 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> What are some examples of single thread and multi thread usage?

Games. Web browsers. Web servers. Integrated development environments
(IDEs). Obviously those last two are not going to be run on a phone or
on an iPad or ARM-powered tablet, but the first two will.

I doubt if many people, or anyone for that matter, deciding on a phone
are doing so mainly based on CP benchmarks, but it is true that the SE2
has a much higher Geekbench multi-threaded score (4395 versus 2442) than
the S10E (it's nearest Samsung competitor in terms of size and price)
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ptJCEvuXIfZIEjMA4acX9XCKkp5DGqAPhdQWWmjNRAo/>.