Explain Android's "Carrier Services" app

[Eli the Bearded]

What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do? Near as I
can tell it is Google provided. The official description is super vague
"helps carriers provide mobile services using the latest networking
capabilities". I have seen hints that it is need for the SMS/MMS
alternative "RCS" (Rich Communication Services) but nothing else about
what it can do or does do.

But it wants a bunch a permissions, far more than *receiving* RCS
should need (and *sending* RCS gets handled in the Messages app, doesn't
it?)

Permissions
Call logs, Camera, Contacts, Location, Microphone, Phone

And when I attempt to disable those permissions, the device gets
testy. First it pops up a window:

If you deny this permission, basic features of your device may no
longer function as intended.
CANEL DENY ANYWAY

"Basic" features? What basic features? Choosing DENY ANYWAY gets me an
alert (one for each denial):

/!\ Google Play services error
Please complete action required by Carrier Services

I disabled Camera and Microphone last week and noticed no changes to the
"basic features" of my device, except that it asked me again on reboot
to complete actions for Carrier Services. Today I disabled the rest of
the permissions.

I recall disabling Google Play's send SMS permission caused problems
buying Play Store apps, so I'm aware that some "basic features" might
exist that I do want, but I use so rarely I might not run into it often.
But then I look at that list of permissions desired and really question
what that could be.

As far as I know, I have never sent nor received an RCS message. I don't
think those work with Apple devices, and most people I send messages to
use Iphones.

If it helps any:

App details
App installed from Google Play Store

version 48.0.335972766-carrierservices_V48E_RC01

Phone is Android 9.

Elijah
------
hates the vagueness of it all

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 21:37:24 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

> What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do?

If you look at what trackers & permissions it has, you'd be scared:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/bNqRK0Xs/appdrawer02.jpg>

I've been doing fine since February with Carrier Services disabled:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/ht5bzHXd/appdrawer03.jpg> lots of detail

Please see details in this thread from February 19, 2020:
o What does the pre-installed "Carrier Services" app do that you actually need to have done on your Android phone?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/M4nyXFV7gnE>

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 21:37:24 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do?
> If you look at what trackers & permissions it has, you'd be scared:

I've already looked at the permissions, which is why I was asking.

> I've been doing fine since February with Carrier Services disabled:

That's good to know, but only incidental to my question.

> Please see details in this thread from February 19, 2020:

All I get from that is more of the same. There's no details beyond
RCS, maybe.

Elijah
------
won't miss RCS being borked

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 01:36:53 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

> All I get from that is more of the same.
> There's no details beyond RCS, maybe.

Yup.
o I agree with your assessment.

Essentially, it's bloatware.
o Worse, if you don't use Google's SMS app, it's not needed.

Even if you use Google's SMS app, if you don't use RCS...
o It's not needed.

As far as I can tell, you can disable it & forget about it.
o At least that's what I've done & my phone works just fine without it.

[Frank Slootweg]

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do? Near as I
> can tell it is Google provided. The official description is super vague
> "helps carriers provide mobile services using the latest networking
> capabilities". I have seen hints that it is need for the SMS/MMS
> alternative "RCS" (Rich Communication Services) but nothing else about
> what it can do or does do.

FWIW, I have no such app on my Samsung Galaxy A51 phone with Android
10.

FYI, I do not have the 'Google Messages' app, but a Samsung SMS/MMS app.
It's name is just 'Messages' and has 'Version 11.5.10.372'. It's id is
com.samsung.android.messaging. It's not in the (Google) Play Store, so I
assume it's in the (Samsung) Galaxy Store.

This message implies that the app did not come with your phone, but
that you or 'something' installed it later.

If you don't know the Google Play id [1], you might want to check if
this is the app you have:

'Carrier Services, Google LLCCommunication'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.ims>
=========================

If it is, the screen shots indicate you should be able to 'DISABLE' it
and, if indeed installed by you/something, you should be able to
uninstall it (an re-install it, if you want/need it after all)..

> version 48.0.335972766-carrierservices_V48E_RC01

That exactly matches the version on the above mentioned Google Play
page, so I'm quite sure it's indeed that (id=com.google.android.ims)
app.

> Phone is Android 9.
>
> Elijah
> ------
> hates the vagueness of it all

[1] You can determine the (Google Play/Play Store) id of an installed
app in many ways. I use:

'Apk Extractor, by margaTools'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marga.ApkDownloader>

This Apk Extractor allows you to save the APK of an installed app, but
it's home page also shows the id of all installed apps, so you can, but
do not have to, use it APK-save function.

Giving the id of an app, in addition to its name, removes any ambiguity
about which exact app one is talking about.

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Dec 2020 12:58:14 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> FWIW, I have no such app on my Samsung Galaxy A51 phone with Android 10.

Hi Frank,

Thanks for helping others, which is what Usenet is all about, IMHO.

I went through this in the other thread, with 123456789, where I simply ask
everyone not to trust _only_ in their "app drawer" app to tell them about
"carrier services".

For example, I have a ton of app drawer apps, and only _some_ tell me about
carrier services. Most don't even see it. Why? I don't know why.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/y6mPQQbM/appdrawer01.jpg>

However, one FOSS app that I _love_ which does "see" carrier services is:
o App Manager <io.github.muntashirakon.AppManager" version 2.5.7 (368)
<https://i.postimg.cc/bNqRK0Xs/appdrawer02.jpg>

> FYI, I do not have the 'Google Messages' app, but a Samsung SMS/MMS app.
> It's name is just 'Messages' and has 'Version 11.5.10.372'. It's id is
> com.samsung.android.messaging. It's not in the (Google) Play Store, so I
> assume it's in the (Samsung) Galaxy Store.

This is good to know for reference, where mine, a Moto G7, has the default:
o Messages <com.google.android.apps.messaging> version 5.4.087

> If it is, the screen shots indicate you should be able to 'DISABLE' it
> and, if indeed installed by you/something, you should be able to
> uninstall it (an re-install it, if you want/need it after all)..

The good news is that when I disabled mine way back in February...
o Not only did it _stay_ disabled (even after an OS change from 9 to 10)
o But I haven't noticed any negative repercussions from disabling it

> That exactly matches the version on the above mentioned Google Play
> page, so I'm quite sure it's indeed that (id=com.google.android.ims)
> app.

By way of reference, on my Android 10 Moto G7, there's zero chance that I
downloaded it from Google Play (I don't even use Google Play, but even so,
there's zero chance I downloaded it from the Aurora Store either), mine is:
o Carrier Services <com.google.android.ims>
version 34.0.293191639-carrierservices_V34R_RC05 (30217451)

> [1] You can determine the (Google Play/Play Store) id of an installed
> app in many ways. I use:
>
> 'Apk Extractor, by margaTools'
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marga.ApkDownloader>

While that's likely a great app, App Manager reports _tons_ of information:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/ht5bzHXd/appdrawer03.jpg>

You can get the FOSS App Manager here:
o <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.muntashirakon.AppManager/>

> This Apk Extractor allows you to save the APK of an installed app, but
> it's home page also shows the id of all installed apps, so you can, but
> do not have to, use it APK-save function.

Just as a helpful aside, if folks use Aurora Store, it can be set up to
automatically save the APKs of every app you install (all it does is _not_
delete the app once you downloaded it and installed it from Google Play).

In addition, F-Droid won't save APKs (AFAICT), but if you use AuroraDroid
(which is the same thing), it also has a button to autosave APKs.

So you really don't need an APK extractor anymore _unless_ you want to
extract already installed apps (and you very well might want to do that).

So APK Extractors have their place (and I have plenty of them, as they each
to different things).

> Giving the id of an app, in addition to its name, removes any ambiguity
> about which exact app one is talking about.

The only problem I have with "some" APK managers is that they truncate long
unique id and/or version numbers; the App Manager I use shows it all.
--
Most of us post on Usenet to help outhers out of the goodness of our heart.

[Piet]

Eli the Bearded wrote:
> What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do? Near as I
> can tell it is Google provided. The official description is super vague
> "helps carriers provide mobile services using the latest networking
> capabilities".

From what I infer that's exactly what it does, having low level access
and bypassing the need for system updates, including branded systems
and systems that no longer get updates.

> And when I attempt to disable those permissions, the device gets
> testy. First it pops up a window:
>
> If you deny this permission, basic features of your device may no
> longer function as intended.

That's what I get every time I stop a background app, but in 99% of the
cases it's false alarm.

-p

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:
[...]

[About the (Google) 'Carrier Services' app:]

> By way of reference, on my Android 10 Moto G7, there's zero chance that I
> downloaded it from Google Play (I don't even use Google Play, but even so,
> there's zero chance I downloaded it from the Aurora Store either), mine is:
> o Carrier Services <com.google.android.ims>
> version 34.0.293191639-carrierservices_V34R_RC05 (30217451)

The 'App info' screen can probably tell you how you got it.

On Android 10 (at least for my Samsung Galaxy A51) it's in the 'App
details in store' section at the bottom of the 'App info' screen, just
before the 'Version' info.

For normal installs/updates it says:

"App downloaded from Google Play Store"

But for example for apps which I transferred with Samsung Smart Switch
from my old phone, it says:

"App downloaded from Smart Switch"

And it has other installation sources, such as 'Galaxy Store', 'Smart
Switch Agent', etc..

N.B. Sometimes the installation source is listed incorrectly. For
example it lists 'Galaxy Store' for an app (ES File Explorer), which was
either transferred with Smart Switch or installed from the APK.

So you might want to have a look on your device to see what the 'App
info' screen says how (it thinks) you got the 'Carrier Services' app.

[...]

[Arlen Holder]

On 3 Dec 2020 13:02:18 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> So you might want to have a look on your device to see what the 'App
> info' screen says how (it thinks) you got the 'Carrier Services' app.

Hi Frank,

Thank you for that purposefully helpful and useful advice on how to figure
out where (and when) any given app was installed on any given Android 10.

I'm not sure exactly _where_ that "App Info" screen is on my Android 10.

When you say it's in the 'App details in store' section at the bottom of
the 'App info' screen, can you clarify, in your setup, _how_ you get there?

> On Android 10 (at least for my Samsung Galaxy A51) it's in the 'App
> details in store' section at the bottom of the 'App info' screen, just
> before the 'Version' info.

When I go to Android10:Settings > Apps & notifications > See all 665 apps
o Carrier Services isn't even listed

When I run "App Manager", it says "Carrier Services" was installed on
o Wed Dec 31 2008 22:00:00 (the "Date Updated" is the same)

As I mentioned, a _lot_ of APK managers don't even _see_ Carrier Services
o Which is why when people tell me they don't have it, I sprinkle some salt

Only some of the APK-management apps I use _do_ see Carrier Services
o And, bear in mind, I have the _best_ known apps installed for such things

Hence, I suspect more people have "Carrier Services" than they think
o Because not being able to see it is "normal" in many APK-related queries

Nonetheless, "My App List" had no problem whatsoever seeing it
o <com.projectsexception.myapplist> version 0.8 (16)

"My App List" says "This application was not installed from Google Play"
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhh0N5/appdrawer04.jpg>

Even so, you can't always believe what _any_ one app says...
o So it would be nice if you can clarify how to use the menu you used.

When you say it's in the 'App details in store' section at the bottom of
the 'App info' screen, can you clarify, in your setup, _how_ you get there?
--
People who are good people generally help each other on Usenet.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:
> On 3 Dec 2020 13:02:18 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > So you might want to have a look on your device to see what the 'App
> > info' screen says how (it thinks) you got the 'Carrier Services' app.
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> Thank you for that purposefully helpful and useful advice on how to figure
> out where (and when) any given app was installed on any given Android 10.
>
> I'm not sure exactly _where_ that "App Info" screen is on my Android 10.
>
> When you say it's in the 'App details in store' section at the bottom of
> the 'App info' screen, can you clarify, in your setup, _how_ you get there?

Assuming you're not pulling my leg / trolling (I did mention (see your
quote of my text below) that 'Version' is on the *same* screen, didn't
I? :-():

Settings -> Apps -> (at the top) 'All' -> (this lists all your apps)
-> tap on app (i.e. 'Carrier Services') -> you now get the 'App info'
page, which gives all the details about the app like 'Usage' (Mobile
data, Battery, Storage, Memory), 'App settings', etc., etc..

I.e. if you know how to look up the Version of an app by using the
(Android) Settings menu, you just have to look a little higher on the
('App info') page which shows 'Version ...'

> > On Android 10 (at least for my Samsung Galaxy A51) it's in the 'App
> > details in store' section at the bottom of the 'App info' screen, just
> > before the 'Version' info.
>
> When I go to Android10:Settings > Apps & notifications > See all 665 apps
> o Carrier Services isn't even listed

You probably didn't select 'All' (see above), but 'Enabled' or
something else..

[Comments on 'app manager's and 'APK manager's listing 'hidden' apps
deleted.]

FWIW, I have never had a case where the device's own Settings 'apps'
(sub)menu did not list an app, but other app/APK managers did, quite the
contrary.

But of course you have to look at the *right selection/tab* of the
Settings 'apps' (sub)menu (see 'All' above). Other devices might have
other selections/tabs, for example one of my old devices had tabs like
'DOWNLOADED', 'RUNNING', 'ALL', etc..

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> > What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do?

> FWIW, I have no such app on my Samsung Galaxy A51 phone with Android 10.

I do not have a Samsung device and do not have anything from the Galaxy
Store.

> If you don't know the Google Play id [1], you might want to check if
> this is the app you have:
>
> 'Carrier Services, Google LLCCommunication'
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.ims>
> =========================
>
> If it is, the screen shots indicate you should be able to 'DISABLE' it
> and, if indeed installed by you/something, you should be able to
> uninstall it (an re-install it, if you want/need it after all)..

The UNINSTALL option only "uninstalls updates" and afterwards, I'm
presented with the option to "UPDATE", but not to DISABLE. Since I have
"autoupdate" turned on, because in general I want security updates ASAP,
I expect the next round of autoupdates will just restore me to
48.0.335972766-carrierservices_V48E_RC01 (or newer).

> Giving the id of an app, in addition to its name, removes any ambiguity
> about which exact app one is talking about.

Agreed, but Google in their infinite "wisdom" has decided that is
information that should be hidden, so one needs to install extra
software or go to great lengths[*] for that information.

[*] Pretty sure it's readibly available in the adb shell. Which you get
to by enabling developer features, connecting a USB cable, and then
running the shell on an attached computer.

Elijah
------
has used the adb shell for thoroughly disabling apps in the past

[Arlen Holder]

On 3 Dec 2020 15:42:51 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Assuming you're not pulling my leg / trolling (I did mention (see your
> quote of my text below) that 'Version' is on the *same* screen, didn't
> I? :-():

Hi Frank,

I'm an old man who just wants to get things done & to help others also.
o So rest assured, I'm not playing games as that would waste our time.

Besides, I put more intelligence, thought, and tutorial effort into a
thread than almost anyone, where it takes energy to create illustrative
examples (I put more energy into one post than some people have put to this
newsgroup in their entire lives), so it wouldn't benefit me to play games.

I think I figured out why what you're seeing it completely different.
1. You simply don't have the same menus as I do, and,
2. Even so, your menus show you information that mine don't.

See this screenshot I just made for you to explain what I'm doing:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9XBsgmt9/appdrawer05.jpg>

I have: Android10:Settings > Apps & notifications > See all 437 apps
o Note: Carrier Services does NOT show up in _that_ listing!

So I can't check from whence "Carrier Services" was installed from
Settings, but, if I look at other (random) apps, I see what you mean:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/RhLP5Rb9/appdrawer06.jpg>

Notice it does say what you claim, only it won't do it for Carrier Services
and, the menus are different (where you have "Apps" & I have "See all 437
apps", but for 2/3rds of my apps, this technique will work, as it reports:
a. App installed from Package installer (i.e., F-Droid)
b. App installed from Aurora Store (i.e., it's a Google Play overlay)
c. App installed from Aurora Droid (i.e., it's an F-Droid overlay)
d. Most apps don't say a thing, as shown in that screenshot above

> Settings -> Apps -> (at the top) 'All' -> (this lists all your apps)
> -> tap on app (i.e. 'Carrier Services') -> you now get the 'App info'
> page, which gives all the details about the app like 'Usage' (Mobile
> data, Battery, Storage, Memory), 'App settings', etc., etc..

My results are different from that description based on my Android 10:
1. There is no "All" at the top; there's "See all 437 apps" in the middle
2. But even so, when I press that, "Carrier Services" is hidden.
NOTE: I know it's there though, as other apps see it clearly.
3. Worse, that method misses 1/3rd of all the known installed apps.

> I.e. if you know how to look up the Version of an app by using the
> (Android) Settings menu, you just have to look a little higher on the
> ('App info') page which shows 'Version ...'

I never found the Android "Settings" search for apps all that good in that
you'll notice Android "Settings" only finds 437 apps installed while
"My App List" finds 665 installed apps (which is the correct number).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhh0N5/appdrawer04.jpg>

Notice the astoundingly _huge_ difference between what Settings reports
o "My App List" literally reports 50% more apps!

That's not a small number (basically 1/3 of your apps are missing if you
use the "Settings" menu); so I've learned, years ago, not to trust what the
Android "Settings" menu reports as installed apps.
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.projectsexception.myapplist>

Note also that "App Manager" has no problem seeing all 637 apps:
o <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.muntashirakon.AppManager/>

> You probably didn't select 'All' (see above), but 'Enabled' or
> something else..

Just to be clear, I posted a screenshot, where "All" doesn't exist for me
o The "closest" is "See all 437 apps", which doesn't see "Carrier Services"

> FWIW, I have never had a case where the device's own Settings 'apps'
> (sub)menu did not list an app, but other app/APK managers did, quite the
> contrary.

My experience is the diametric opposite of your experience.

I have been using Android as long as anyone here, I would think
o I don't think the "Settings" ever correctly reported all installed apps

Clearly I've shown above screenshots showing "Settings" misses 1/3rd of the
apps which are installed, which is so bad as to be virtually worthless:
o 437 apps <https://i.postimg.cc/9XBsgmt9/appdrawer05.jpg>
o 655 apps <https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhh0N5/appdrawer04.jpg>

Maybe I'm reading it wrongly, but isn't that proof that the "Settings"
display is _missing_ roughly about 1/3rd of the current installed apps?

> But of course you have to look at the *right selection/tab* of the
> Settings 'apps' (sub)menu (see 'All' above). Other devices might have
> other selections/tabs, for example one of my old devices had tabs like
> 'DOWNLOADED', 'RUNNING', 'ALL', etc..

I think all the confusion is in the fact I can't follow your instructions
because you have an "All" where I have a "See all 437 apps", and your "All"
seems to show Carrier Services, while mine does not.

If you can look at _this_ screenshot and tell me why it doesn't have an
"Apps" sub menu, that would be fantastic, as I suspect your menus are not
the same as mine, even though we're both on the same Android 10 version.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9XBsgmt9/appdrawer05.jpg>

BTW, Frank, you mentioned in another thread you don't know why I sometimes
replicate a post to other relevant cross referenced threads on the net,
where I plan on replicating this post simply because I put, oh, say, maybe
an hour or so, into this post, and yet, it will _never_ be leveraged as the
thread title isn't something someone will find in the future.

Hence I will _leverage_ the immense effort I put into this post, and that's
why you see me leveraging posts from some threads to the canonical threads.

Unfortunately, I don't know of a good thread other than my own "Carrier
Services" thread, which contains more useful info overall for users than
this thread, so I'll probably put it there (or maybe into a new thread in
and of itself).
--
I'm different from most posters on Usenet Frank - I try to leverage value.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:47:35 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

>> 'Carrier Services, Google LLCCommunication'
>> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.ims>
>> =========================
>>
>> If it is, the screen shots indicate you should be able to 'DISABLE' it
>> and, if indeed installed by you/something, you should be able to
>> uninstall it (an re-install it, if you want/need it after all)..
>
> The UNINSTALL option only "uninstalls updates" and afterwards, I'm
> presented with the option to "UPDATE", but not to DISABLE. Since I have
> "autoupdate" turned on, because in general I want security updates ASAP,
> I expect the next round of autoupdates will just restore me to
> 48.0.335972766-carrierservices_V48E_RC01 (or newer).

Just to be clear so that _others_ aren't swayed from both uninstalling &
disabling default Google/OEM bloatware apps such as Carrier Services, my
experience is completely different from that of the OP as he states above:

1. I can uninstall Carrier Services, and it does _not_ update itself.
2. However, as noted above, uninstalling reverts to the original version.
3. But you can _selectively_ auto-update apps on Android, if you like.
4. Where you just wouldn't choose to selectively update _that_ one app.
5. And, you might just want to _DISABLE_ it too, as I easily was able to.

Easy peasy!
o I just want others not to get discouraged from controlling their destiny.

> Agreed, but Google in their infinite "wisdom" has decided that is
> information that should be hidden, so one needs to install extra
> software or go to great lengths[*] for that information.

While the OP may not wish to install a third-party app to get reliable and
accurate information about apps, if others want that information, see:
o Does your Android "Settings" "All apps" miss tons of installed apps?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/RibNiZ8gUqE>
--
Every thread should increase our combined tribal knowledge if possible.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:
[...]

> I think I figured out why what you're seeing it completely different.
> 1. You simply don't have the same menus as I do, and,
> 2. Even so, your menus show you information that mine don't.
>
> See this screenshot I just made for you to explain what I'm doing:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/9XBsgmt9/appdrawer05.jpg>
>
> I have: Android10:Settings > Apps & notifications > See all 437 apps
> o Note: Carrier Services does NOT show up in _that_ listing!

A thought just crossed my mind: IIRC, you said that you disabled the
'Carrier Services' app. If so, then on some (most? all?) Android
devices, disabled apps are listed at the *bottom* of the list, i.e. not
at their alphabetically sorted position.

So check the bottom of the list.

> So I can't check from whence "Carrier Services" was installed from
> Settings, but, if I look at other (random) apps, I see what you mean:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/RhLP5Rb9/appdrawer06.jpg>
>
> Notice it does say what you claim, only it won't do it for Carrier Services
> and, the menus are different (where you have "Apps" & I have "See all 437
> apps", but for 2/3rds of my apps, this technique will work, as it reports:
> a. App installed from Package installer (i.e., F-Droid)
> b. App installed from Aurora Store (i.e., it's a Google Play overlay)
> c. App installed from Aurora Droid (i.e., it's an F-Droid overlay)
> d. Most apps don't say a thing, as shown in that screenshot above

Good, so we know your Settings -> Apps & notifications -> App info
screen can show the installation source.

[...]

> "My App List" finds 665 installed apps (which is the correct number).
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhh0N5/appdrawer04.jpg>
>
> Notice the astoundingly _huge_ difference between what Settings reports
> o "My App List" literally reports 50% more apps!

That's indeed a huge difference. Very strange. I've never encountered
such a big difference. Maybe a difference of a few apps, but never more.

N.B. That screenshot says that the 'Carrier Services' app was
installed on 12/31/2008. Does that date help determining who/what
installed the app on your device?

[...]

[Frank Slootweg]

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> > > What exactly does the "Carrier Services" app on Android do?
> > FWIW, I have no such app on my Samsung Galaxy A51 phone with Android 10.
>
> I do not have a Samsung device and do not have anything from the Galaxy
> Store.
>
> > If you don't know the Google Play id [1], you might want to check if
> > this is the app you have:
> >
> > 'Carrier Services, Google LLCCommunication'
> > <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.ims>
> > =========================
> >
> > If it is, the screen shots indicate you should be able to 'DISABLE' it
> > and, if indeed installed by you/something, you should be able to
> > uninstall it (an re-install it, if you want/need it after all)..
>
> The UNINSTALL option only "uninstalls updates" and afterwards, I'm
> presented with the option to "UPDATE", but not to DISABLE.

Bummer! Yes, I've noticed that - at least in newer Android versions -
the 'Disable' button is indeed sometimes inactive/greyed-out, even after
'uninstall updates'.

> Since I have
> "autoupdate" turned on, because in general I want security updates ASAP,
> I expect the next round of autoupdates will just restore me to
> 48.0.335972766-carrierservices_V48E_RC01 (or newer).

That should not be a problem, because even if you have the *global*
Play Store setting 'Auto-update apps' turned on, you still can turn off
the auto-updating of specific *individual* apps.

My apps & games -> 'Installed' tab -> tap on icon or name of the
relevant app -> this should show the Play Store page of the app ->
<three-vertical-dots> icon in upper right -> untick 'Enable auto
update'.

[...]

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> The UNINSTALL option only "uninstalls updates" and afterwards, I'm
>> presented with the option to "UPDATE", but not to DISABLE.
> Bummer! Yes, I've noticed that - at least in newer Android versions -
> the 'Disable' button is indeed sometimes inactive/greyed-out, even after
> 'uninstall updates'.

The button wasn't even grayed out, it was completely removed. The UPDATE
button was made large to take up the space.

>> Since I have "autoupdate" turned on, because in general I want

> That should not be a problem, because even if you have the *global*
> Play Store setting 'Auto-update apps' turned on, you still can turn off
> the auto-updating of specific *individual* apps.

Really? I did not know that.

> My apps & games -> 'Installed' tab -> tap on icon or name of the
> relevant app -> this should show the Play Store page of the app ->
> <three-vertical-dots> icon in upper right -> untick 'Enable auto
> update'.

Done now. App store still shows Carrier Services in the "Updates
Available" list and it looks like if I manually hit that "Update All"
button, it would update. That could be deceiving or ot could be
accurate.

Example: in Ubuntu, and presumably Debian, one can put a "hold" on a
package. It will still be listed as having updates available, but any
attempt to update it will fail until the hold is lifted. I don't think
the action I just did is as strong as the Ubuntu "hold", but if it is,
that would be good to know.

Elijah
------
`sudo apt-mark hold <package-name>` / `sudo apt-mark unhold <package-name>`

[Arlen Holder]

On 4 Dec 2020 13:37:00 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> That should not be a problem, because even if you have the *global*
> Play Store setting 'Auto-update apps' turned on, you still can turn off
> the auto-updating of specific *individual* apps.

Frank,

This Eli the Bearded character who trolls other groups was already told that...
o And he didn't comprehend it then.

What makes you think he will comprehend it now?
o I suspect he simply wants to rant... (or troll)...

As how many times do we need to tell him that his rants are based on his
assessment of facts that he simply fabricated (i.e., his problems are
imaginary given they don't exist anywhere except in his own setup).
--
PS: And yes, your silence on the "name just one" last week is duly noted.

[Arlen Holder]

On 4 Dec 2020 13:23:40 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> A thought just crossed my mind: IIRC, you said that you disabled the
> 'Carrier Services' app. If so, then on some (most? all?) Android
> devices, disabled apps are listed at the *bottom* of the list, i.e. not
> at their alphabetically sorted position.
>
> So check the bottom of the list.

Hi Frank,

I love facts.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YSwdXbkq/appdrawer07.jpg>

The fact you mentioned that means you're not like the others, in that you
can think and debug, which is good, where I appreciate intelligent people.

I don't really ever bother with the Android "Settings > apps stuff", simply
because it's basically non functional compared to far better app managers.

I've known this for years, so this disdain for the Android settings goes
way back, well before I hit upon the idea to disable most Google services.

Yet, when someone makes a suggestion, I almost always test it, as I don't
act like many others who refute facts simply because they don't like them.

I had already tested your kind suggestion though, long ago, where I'll do
it again so I can screenshot it, but I already know what the answer is:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YSwdXbkq/appdrawer07.jpg>

It's easy to prove it's not that it's disabled many other ways also.
o Not the least of reasons being I didn't disable hundreds of apps! :)

But you wouldn't have known that I already knew that...
o So I do very much appreciate that you, like me, have thinking brains.

> Good, so we know your Settings -> Apps & notifications -> App info
> screen can show the installation source.

Yes. And I _thank you_ very much for pointing that out to me, and to us!
o Personally, I gave up on the "Settings > Apps" long ago

So I didn't even _know_ that the source was told to me...
o And better yet, I didn't realize it's told to me when it's NOT Google
Play (at least in my app manager apps as I show in this screenshot):
<https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhh0N5/appdrawer04.jpg>

My warning to everyone here though, is simply that I can easily prove the
"Settings > Apps" misses _hundreds_ of installed apps, where I know that,
and have known that for years - but others "might" trust it to be correct.

It's not.

This is, in a way, kind of what irks me about many people is that they see
a single datapoint, and they believe it, without doublechecking the facts.

If all I ever ran was the "Settings > Apps", I'd assume it's correct...
o But I don't trust _any_ app - so I run multiple doublechecks

> That's indeed a huge difference. Very strange. I've never encountered
> such a big difference. Maybe a difference of a few apps, but never more.

The sad thing is that almost ever (if not every) app I have that tells me
how many apps I have, reports a _different_ number (although some of that
may be due to settings such as "system", "installed", "disabled", etc.).

Personally, I don't worry about it though, as if I can't find an app listed
in one app manager, then I just use another, which is why I have so many!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/y6mPQQbM/appdrawer01.jpg>

> N.B. That screenshot says that the 'Carrier Services' app was
> installed on 12/31/2008. Does that date help determining who/what
> installed the app on your device?

Yeah. I noticed that and said in the prior post that I don't believe it.
o The Moto G7 was made in 2019 (AFAIK), so that was a decade prior.

Why does it say 2008?
o I don't know why, but Android was released in 2007 according to Wiki.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history>

The 2008 date is so bogus that it can only mean one of two things, I think:
1. It could be how the app defaults when it has no freaking idea, or,
2. Maybe there's code inside of CarrierServices which dates to 2008?

In summary, rest assured while I'm sometimes hard on you, I am also
appreciative as my only goal is to learn and help others learn (and you
know I have umpteen tutorials to attest to that fact).

Your question is valid, reasonable, sensible and apropos.
o There could very well be "something" in my setup causing Settings to fail

But I'm no fan of "settings > apps" anyway; so I'm not gonna debug much.
o I could run tests (e.g., disabling other apps); but what would we gain?

I do very much appreciate though that you taught us something valuable
o And that, after all, is why good hearted people make Usenet what it is.
--

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 03:17:13 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> My warning to everyone here though, is simply that I can easily prove the
> "Settings > Apps" misses _hundreds_ of installed apps, where I know that,
> and have known that for years - but others "might" trust it to be correct.

To be more precise regarding these empirical results Frank & I pondered:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9XBsgmt9/appdrawer05.jpg> 437 apps installed
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhh0N5/appdrawer04.jpg> 665 apps installed

To be more precise, we should likely "define" what we mean by "apps"
o Since some, like "Carrier Services", are clearly in a superposition state

They're like Shroedinger's Cat in that they exist in multiple states
o They only show up as "in the list" or "not in the list" when you look!

So apps like "Carrier Setup" show up in some lists, but not in others.

Why?
o I don't know why.

Worse, there are many "types" of apps.
o For example, do we count "system apps", or not?

And do we count those little Android-icon apps that seem part of the OS?
o I don't know.

Personally, I don't like when lists "hide" stuff without me having the
option to view them, so that's why I prefer the app which shows the most.

So my warning to the group is sort of like the old adage about watches.
o If you have only one watch, you _think_ you know the time.

But you likely don't (unless you know for sure it's a damn good watch!).

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:

> On 4 Dec 2020 13:37:00 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > That should not be a problem, because even if you have the *global*
> > Play Store setting 'Auto-update apps' turned on, you still can turn off
> > the auto-updating of specific *individual* apps.
>
> Frank,
>
> This Eli the Bearded character who trolls other groups

[Repeat:]

[Unintended] "Self-satire is a pleasure to observe."
(courtesy WK)

[...]

> PS: And yes, your silence on the "name just one" last week is duly noted.

I'm so sorry to hear that - apparently - 'References:' is not working
in your newsreader.

[Arlen Holder]

On 5 Dec 2020 15:04:54 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>> PS: And yes, your silence on the "name just one" last week is duly noted.
>
> I'm so sorry to hear that - apparently - 'References:' is not working
> in your newsreader.

Frank,

I've known you for a long time, and you've never backed up your claims.
o Just like nospam, your belief system is based on exactly zero facts.

I just LIFO sorted all your Windows 10 posts & I don't see it Frank:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Kvmqh37f/slootweg.jpg>

Bear in mind, you _always_ fail the "name just one" test, and I know that.
o So if you actually proved what you claim, then I don't see it.

The penultimate post from you is this (which is what I had challenged):
o Message-ID: <rq33d8...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

There is only one post from you after that, and it's this (i.e., unrelated)
o Message-ID: <rq8cln...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

That's it, Frank.
o That penultimate post I challenge; there's no "name just one" from you.

As I recall, _every_ time I've asked you to prove that your claims are
based on at least one fact, you always fail; so I'm not surprised, Frank.

However, if, perchance, if you are correct and you did "name just one"...
o Why can't you provide the link to your so-called "proof"?

You made a claim which I believe is based on exactly zero facts
o If your claim is based on at least one fact - where is that fact Frank?

Name just one.

Unlike the infantile apologists, Frank, I'm not afraid of facts, Frank.
o Name just one.

Always remember Frank, I know you well and I understand why you own a
completely imaginary belief system, or, well, um, at least I think I
understand why.

You're not an apologist - but you, like the Type II apologists, make claims
that are based on exactly zero (0) facts. The good news is you don't do it
anywhere near as often as the infantile Apple apologists do.

In fact, you only make your baseless claims every once in a while.
o I'm sure you _believe_ them, Frank... Of that I'm positive.

Just like a child believes in Santa Claus, I have no doubt of that.
o It's just that you _always_ fail this simple "name just one" test, Frank.

We are quite different, Frank, since I actually comprehend facts.
o I don't form a belief system unless it's actually based on facts.

Name just one.
--
People who own imaginary belief systems can't name a single fact to back
them up.