Re: Call recorder for the UK?

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

> Hello group. I need a reliable call recorder on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I did
> have a fully-paid for Automatic Call Recorder Pro https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY
> installed but it doesn't work any more and some of the user reviews say that
> users in the UK are restricted in some way, and that's why the program
> doesn't work. I've looked around the Google Apps store for another call
> recorder but thought I'd ask a wider knowledge base here on their thoughts
> on this alleged restriction on Samsung devices in the UK and maybe get a few
> recommendations.

Ignoring the UK aspect of the question, and simply searching for "automatic
call recorder" on comp.mobile.android unearths a recent thread on the topic
o <http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android>

Namely this thread asking for the best free automatic call recorders:
o *Automatic call recorder freeware* (best)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/wwENOd1NBQAJ>

Looking at your link <https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY> I see you refer to the
automatic call recorder I used to use, but ditched, as the newer versions
of that company's freeware were worse than the original versions.

Hence, I suggest you look at the second free call recorder in that list
o We we can only hope there are others here who know more than I do.

As for UK specific needs, I'll leave that for the legal team to advise you
as it's not a purely technical topic, so I can't discuss it given I strive
to keep the technical Android topics separate from the political ones.
--
Due to the no archive bit, I can't reference the original post, below:
Path: uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Call recorder for the UK?
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:42:24 +0100
Message-ID: <qd019fdgljhru5ehf...@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Note that the X dash No dash Archive bit was set

Hello group. I need a reliable call recorder on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I
did have a fully-paid for Automatic Call Recorder Pro
https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY
installed but it doesn't work any more and some of the user reviews say
that users in the UK are restricted in some way, and that's why the program
doesn't work. I've looked around the Google Apps store for another call
recorder but thought I'd ask a wider knowledge base here on their thoughts
on this alleged restriction on Samsung devices in the UK and maybe get a
few recommendations.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 10.04.20 um 16:42 schrieb Malaki Soloman:

> Hello group. I need a reliable call recorder on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I did
> have a fully-paid for Automatic Call Recorder Pro https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY
> installed but it doesn't work any more and some of the user reviews say that
> users in the UK are restricted in some way, and that's why the program
> doesn't work. I've looked around the Google Apps store for another call
> recorder but thought I'd ask a wider knowledge base here on their thoughts
> on this alleged restriction on Samsung devices in the UK and maybe get a few
> recommendations.

Such Programs contradict newer European Privacy Laws.
They are not allowed to be distributed anymore.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 11.04.20 um 09:41 schrieb Malaki Soloman:

> On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:11:52 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Such Programs contradict newer European Privacy Laws.
>> They are not allowed to be distributed anymore.
>

> Thank you for confirming my suspicions regarding the European privacy laws
> and call recording. However, having said that, your second statement doesn't
> seem to be confirmed, because while these call recorders don't work for
> users inside the European jurisdiction, they're freely distributed to them
> and advertised as a non-restricted App. Maybe, if developers selling their
> Apps on Play Store made the European Laws known and warned potential buyers
> that their Apps do not work in Europe, European buyers wouldn't be wasting
> their time and money installing their Apps.

I do not think I said anything else.
European laws are enforced also in the UK. At least for a while.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

> Thank you for your help. What with European laws restricting its citizens'
> freedom to record calls on their mobile phones, it seems I've no option but
> to continue using my older model as dictaphone to record them.

Hi Malaki Soloman,

I can't comment on the UK laws as I treat politically based restrictions as
"guidelines" more than iron-clad laws, even in the USA. I teach my
grandkids that if the only reason for doing something is
o It's the law
Then that's one of the worst reasons since the law has no reason to exist.

Given the OP has UK-specific needs, in order to be purposefully helpful at
all times, I suggest the OP follow a testing sequence of, for example:

1. Searching the web-searchable UK public archives for uk.telecom.mobile:
o <http://tinyurl.com/uk.telecom.mobile>
o <http://uk.telecom.mobile.narkive.com>

2. Testing the freeware call recorders listed in this recent thread:

o *Automatic call recorder freeware* (best)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/wwENOd1NBQAJ>

3. If _all_ of those freeware recorders fail for the OP, _then_ I'd ask at
o uk.telecom.mobile
and, perhaps even:
o alt.cellular.mobile

You can cross reference this thread in those posts using this link:
o Re: Call recorder for the UK?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE>

Regarding dictaphones, the OP may wish to be aware of the ports of the
Google offline recorder & offline transcriber I installed on my phone:
o Offline speech-to-text recorder/transcription unofficial
Google Recorder APK port now available for many Android phones
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Amn35T16NA/dsNJ5KoUCAAJ>
--
Usenet works best when adults post with purposefully helpful intentions.

[Arlen Holder]

Given the OP has UK-specific needs, in order to be purposefully helpful at
all times, I suggest the OP follow a testing sequence of, for example:

1. Searching the web-searchable UK public archives for uk.telecom.mobile:
o <http://tinyurl.com/uk.telecom.mobile>
o <http://uk.telecom.mobile.narkive.com>

2. Testing the freeware call recorders listed in this recent thread:

o *Automatic call recorder freeware* (best)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/wwENOd1NBQAJ>

3. If _all_ of those freeware recorders fail for the OP, _then_ I'd ask at
o uk.telecom.mobile
and, perhaps even:
o alt.cellular.mobile

You can cross reference this thread in those posts using this link:

o Re: Call recorder for the UK?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE>

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

>>Such Programs contradict newer European Privacy Laws.
>>They are not allowed to be distributed anymore.
>

> Thank you for confirming my suspicions regarding the European privacy laws
> and call recording. However, having said that, your second statement doesn't
> seem to be confirmed, because while these call recorders don't work for
> users inside the European jurisdiction, they're freely distributed to them
> and advertised as a non-restricted App. Maybe, if developers selling their
> Apps on Play Store made the European Laws known and warned potential buyers
> that their Apps do not work in Europe, European buyers wouldn't be wasting
> their time and money installing their Apps.

Hi Malaki Soloman,

I'm not sure whether you realize Joerg Lorenz has a credibility no better
than the result of coin toss (probably worse since he simply seems to
fabricate his belief system out of nowhere, e.g., when he claimed he
doesn't believe any facts by the BBC but only believes in facts posted in
German media.

Hence, my purposefully helpful suggestion is to completely ignore anything
& everything that comes out of Joerg's mouth as he lacks adult credibility
(the schools in Switzerland should be ashamed); but whether you follow my
purposefully helpful suggestion is wholly up to you.

As to your problem, you need to test the freeware I suggested which will
confirm your suspicions or not, in less time than it took me to compose
this reply to you - so I strongly suggest you run that quick five-minute
test - which will - I think - not only answer your question - but also
provide you a solution.

Normally I say out of laws, but since you are delving into them with Joerg,
a very quick skim of the reference below seems to indicate you likely can
record calls in the UK as long as you're one of the parties to the call and
if that record is for your own use:
"*A recording made by one party to a phone call or e-mail without*
*notifying the other is not prohibited*
*provided that the recording is for their own use*"

However, laws are complex, and I repeat I'm no expert, where, to help, I
list out this section of that reference, verbatim, for you to ponder:
o *Telephone call recording laws*
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#United_Kingdom>

The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 in general prohibits
interception of communications by a third party, with exceptions related to
government agencies. A recording made by one party to a phone call or
e-mail without notifying the other is not prohibited provided that the
recording is for their own use; recording without notification is
prohibited where some of the contents of the communication¡Xa phone
conversation or an e-mail¡Xare made available to a third party. Businesses
may record with the knowledge of their employees, but without notifying the
other party, to:

provide evidence of a business transaction
ensure that a business complies with regulatory procedures
see that quality standards or targets are being met
protect national security
prevent or detect crime
investigate the unauthorised use of a telecommunications system
secure the effective operation of the telecommunications system
They may monitor without recording phone calls or e-mails that have been
received to see whether they are relevant to the business (e.g., to check
for business communications addressed to an employee who is away); but such
monitoring must be proportional and in accordance with data protection laws
and codes of practice.

This summary does not necessarily cover all possible cases. The main
legislation which must be complied with is:

Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 ("RIPA")[24]
Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice)(Interception of
Communications) Regulations 2000 ("LBP Regulations")[25]
General Data Protection Regulation
Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999[26]
Human Rights Act 1998
Under RIPA unlawful recording or monitoring of communications is a tort,
allowing civil action in the courts. There is a summary of applicable rules
on the Oftel website.[27]

Recording is sometimes advised, as in recording business transactions
carried out by telephone to provide a record. It is sometimes mandatory;
from March 2009 Financial Services Authority rules required firms to record
all telephone conversations and electronic communications relating to
client orders and the conclusion of transactions in the equity, bond, and
derivatives markets.[28] In November 2011 this was extended to cover the
recording of mobile phone conversations that related to client orders and
transactions by regulated firms.
--
Every thread to Usenet should strive to add on-topic technical value.

[David Higton]

In message <r6rn38$8sh$2...@dont-email.me>

If the other party knows he is being recorded and agrees to such
recording, then it doesn't contravene the European Privacy laws.

David

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote :

>> Such Programs contradict newer European Privacy Laws. They are not allowed
>> to be distributed anymore.
>
> If the other party knows he is being recorded and agrees to such
> recording, then it doesn't contravene the European Privacy laws.

Hi David Higton,

You have to realize Joerg Lorenz fabricates everything based on exact zero
(0) facts (like a small child does); and even so, I suspect the OP's
problem is simply technical, and not legal.

But the fact is that if you assume Joerg Lorenz is full of shit, you'll
likely get a better result than if you believe a word he spouts.

Don't believe me; just look at the facts.
o All I care about, are the facts.

The fact is most likely that the OP's issue is technical anyway.

The _simplest_ test, I think, is for the OP to use the suggested
alternative freeware call recorder for a few minutes, and if _that_ works,
not only does he have his answer, but also his solution.

Regarding "consent", here, in the USA, we have one-party and two-party
states, meaning in some states only one person needs to do the call
recording (which seems similar to the UK law we previously discussed).

Other states require both parties to be informed, where "an audible beep"
or "prior verbal" communication the call is being recorded appears to be
acceptable in the two-party states (overall assessment from the wikipedia
summary).

As for the EU, bear in mind Joerg is, apparently in Switzerland, which
isn't listed in that Wiki reference:
o Telephone call recording laws
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#United_Kingdom>

But plenty of European countries are listed in that reference, where,
here's a copy of what it says for the first European country listed:

Denmark:
"Calls and conversations may be recorded by any active participant, with
no requirement to make other parties aware of the recording. But forwarding
or playing calls considered private is illegal. The Denmark Data Protection
Authority (DPA) ruled on April 11, 2019, that affirmative consent is
required when companies record customer telephone calls.[7]"

Italy:
"According to the Supreme Court of Cassation, recorded conversations are
legal and can be used as evidence in court, even if the other party is
unaware of being recorded, provided that the recording party takes part of
the conversation."

Finland:
"In the case of private persons, calls and conversations may be recorded
by any active participant. There is no requirement to make other parties
aware of the recording, but the use of recordings, depending on their
content, may be subject to various laws, such as data protection (privacy)
legislation, libel laws, laws governing trade and national secrets, and any
agreements, such as non-disclosure agreements.[8]

Recording of calls by a company or an employer is subject to data
protection legislation and, as a general rule, requires informing the
participants prior to recording.[8]"

In summary, with the caveat that I make no claims to be an expert in legal
systems, at first glance, with that one reference only at my side, I would
say it's up to the country in the EU.

I would also say that the OP's problem is almost certainly _not_ a legal
one, but a technical one, which the OP can fix in about five minutes simply
by installing the suggested freeware call recorders.

Lastly, and least importantly, this again proves, as usual, that Joerg
Lorenz is full of shit, as everything he spouts is like a fifth grader
making up that he saw Santa Claus on the rooftops last night delivering
Christmas goodies.

I don't understand people like Joerg Lorenz, unless I consider them to own
the mind of a child - but as an adult - I can't comprehend people like
Joerg who are literally always wrong in all their belief systems.

How can the schools in Switzerland be _that_ bad?
--
I bring TRUTH to this Usenet newsgroups through blunt application of fact.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

> Well, what can I say apart from thank you very much for all your tireless
> efforts to help me with this problem. You're very kind. I've tried two other
> call recorders and neither of them work, so it looks like I'm going to have
> to forget about the issue until I hear from somewhere that the UK have
> abandoned the European regulations regarding the recording of calls.

Hi Malaki Soloman,

That's too bad that two call recorders didn't work for you.
o I feel bad for you; I really do: I hope you find the answers soon.

Maybe you can ask folks in the UK by asking in the uk-specific newsgroup:
o uk.telecom.mobile

You can reference this thread for context if you feel it's appropriate:
o *Call recorder for the UK?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/8U6v2WaLAQAJ>
--
Usenet is a place for adults to gather to politely discuss solutions.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 11.04.20 um 15:06 schrieb David Higton:

Correct.
And how do you prove the consent?

[David Higton]

In message <r6ssto$m48$1...@news.mixmin.net>

Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote:

> In response to what David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote :
>
> > > Such Programs contradict newer European Privacy Laws. They are not
> > > allowed to be distributed anymore.
> >
> > If the other party knows he is being recorded and agrees to such
> > recording, then it doesn't contravene the European Privacy laws.
>
> Hi David Higton,

[snipped, tirade against Joerg Lorenz]

I'm not going to criticise him for that statement. It seems that lots
of people misunderstand the European privacy and data protection laws,
and go on to say things that aren't true. He is, sadly, far from alone.

David

[David Higton]

In message <r6ufmj$h2$1...@dont-email.me>

The agreement will self-evidently be part of the recording.

David

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 12.04.20 um 14:44 schrieb David Higton:

Dream on!

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 11.04.20 um 09:23 schrieb Malaki Soloman:

> Thank you for your help. What with European laws restricting its citizens'
> freedom to record calls on their mobile phones, it seems I've no option but
> to continue using my older model as dictaphone to record them.

You attitude is absolutely not acceptable!
I'll never allow anyone to record a private phone call with me. I'm very
thankful that the law is much stricter now.

Even in the professional domain the employer has to get consent to tape
phone calls of employees. I'm working in an environment where calls have
to be recorded but I know that and I can adjust to this situation. My
employer has also the right to protect itself (against outsiders).

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

>>o <http://tinyurl.com/uk.telecom.mobile>
>
> That link leads nowhere, I'm afraid.

Ooops. My mistake. Thanks for letting me know the link failed.

I _created_ all these links, where tinyurl doesn't allow "periods"
(aka, in (Br)English, they're called "full stops" I believe).

So the link to uk.telecom.mobile newsgroup is, of necessity:
o <http://tinyurl.com/uk-telecom-mobile>

Just as the link to the Android newsgroup is:
o <http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android>

You can also check with the iphone newsgroup:
o <http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone>

I know this about the links 'cuz I created them years ago myself.

Good luck and best wishes!

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

>>Regarding dictaphones, the OP may wish to be aware of the ports of the
>>Google offline recorder & offline transcriber I installed on my phone:
>>o Offline speech-to-text recorder/transcription unofficial
>> Google Recorder APK port now available for many Android phones
>><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Amn35T16NA/dsNJ5KoUCAAJ>
>

> Thank you for linking me to that helpful thread.

Hi Malaki Soloman,

While the key advantage of that Google recorder APK port is that it
transcribes to text offline for privacy.

It was originally only for Pixel phones, but they ported it so that it
worked on my Motorola G7, and about a hundred other common phones.

But it won't work on all Android phones, so if you can't get a Google port
of that recorder to work on your phone, then there are other good recording
apps (that don't do transcription at all, let alone offline transcription
to a file).

For example, before I used the Google Recorder APK port, I was using this:
o Sound Recorder, by Cogzidel Technologies Private Limited
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=comm.danielkim.soundrecorder>
But it's only a recorder.

As always, I hope this helps.
--
Usenet is most useful when everyone is polite, helpful, and detailed.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote :

> I'm not going to criticise him for that statement. It seems that lots
> of people misunderstand the European privacy and data protection laws,
> and go on to say things that aren't true. He is, sadly, far from alone.

Hi David Higton,

The facts clearly show that the one reference I read directly contradicts
almost everything, if not everything, Joerg Lorenz seems to have claimed.

I was simply warning you about Joerg Lorenz' utter lack of credibility.

We can leave it at that, since I'm not surprised and you don't seem
surprised either, which was my only reason for alerting you to the facts.
--
PS: For now, I'm going to ignore your imbecilic post to the decibel thread
since my goal is to find an adult who comprehends the question asked and
who bothers to add value by performing the adult action of checking &
reporting their signal strength like I did as an adult should.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/utR6xk9SU_Y/30am1wheAAAJ>

[s|b]

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 14:06:38 +0100, David Higton wrote:

> If the other party knows he is being recorded and agrees to such
> recording, then it doesn't contravene the European Privacy laws.

Doesn't matter. Google made sure you can't record phones anymore (with
an app) since Android 9. It used to work fine.

--
s|b

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what s|b <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :

>> If the other party knows he is being recorded and agrees to such
>> recording, then it doesn't contravene the European Privacy laws.
>
> Doesn't matter. Google made sure you can't record phones anymore (with
> an app) since Android 9. It used to work fine.

Hi slb,

We need to dig down since you're apparently correct, but something's amiss:
<https://i.postimg.cc/nVjRPd3B/callrecorder02.jpg>

I'm on a Moto G7 which was born with Android 9 and while my strategic goal
is to only use the recorded calls for safety & emergency purposes (so I
don't check the recordings unless there's a need to), I just checked, and
the automatic recordings I randomly listened to appear to sound ok:
<https://i.postimg.cc/v8tJz2Th/callrecorder03.jpg>

Hence, while there's a lot of wrong information going around in this
thread, which helps nobody (e.g., every single claim from Joerg Lorenz
turns out to be wrong and even the OP is apparently dead wrong in almost
everything he claimed about the UK laws), I was shocked when I saw your
post, as you're not a bullshitter nor are you prone to incorrect untenable
statements.

Like you, I stick to the facts.

Therefore, the first thing I did when I saw your post was google the facts,
as I am wont to do, which seems to back up your surprising-to-me claim that
Android 9 disables automatic call recording:
<https://www.nllapps.com/apps/acr/android9.htm>

And yet, I'm on Android 9, and my free call recorder appears to work ok:
o What's going on?

I don't know.

In fact, until you mentioned it, I hadn't even known Android 9 disables
call recording sans root (I'm not rooted), and yet, it appears to be true:
o No Call recording on Android 9 and above
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-9/how-to/call-recording-android-9-t3846235>

It seems based only on a quick skim of the reports I found by googling,
"some" non-rooted Android 9 call recorders work ok, while others don't, but
it may be due to _how_ they record the calls (e.g., which input they use,
for example).
o Here┬ How You Can Continue Using Call Recording Apps On Android Pie & Q
<https://beebom.com/workarounds-android-pie-call-recording-limitation/>

I don't know why though, but my Moto G7 Android 9 non-rooted phone seems to
record calls.
--
Adults gather on Usenet to politely learn via public technical discussion.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

> Hello group. I need a reliable call recorder on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I did
> have a fully-paid for Automatic Call Recorder Pro https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY
> installed but it doesn't work any more and some of the user reviews say that
> users in the UK are restricted in some way, and that's why the program
> doesn't work. I've looked around the Google Apps store for another call
> recorder but thought I'd ask a wider knowledge base here on their thoughts
> on this alleged restriction on Samsung devices in the UK and maybe get a few
> recommendations.

UPDATE

Thanks to slb, I dug up more information on the Android 9 related vagaries
of how the free automatic call recorders work on various phone models:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/8P9mXpTSAAAJ>
o Call Recorder - Cube ACR
<com.catgalinagroup.callrecorder> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Automatic Call Recorder
<com.appstar.callrecorder> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Automatic Call Recorder
<com.callrecord.auto> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder - Automatic Call Recorder
<call.recorder.automatic.acr> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder
<com.enlightment.voicecallrecorder> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder- Automatic Call Recorder
<com.smsrobot.callrecorder> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder S9 - Automatic
<com.smsrobot.callu> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Automatic Call Recorder
<com.q4u.autocallrecorder> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder
<com.fragileheart.callrecorder> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder ACR
<com.nll.acr> (has ads, GSF dependent)
o Call Recorder - Simple call recorder, no ads, open-source, by Axet
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.callrecorder/>

Where Occam's Razor implies the OP's problem "may" simply be due to the
apparently complexity of how call recorders work in various Android
versions:
<https://i.postimg.cc/GhpWzprM/callrecorder05.jpg>

Adhering to Occam's Razor and therefore sticking to facts, I seriously
doubt that the "UK laws" have _anything_ whatsoever to do with it - one
reason being UK laws appear to allow all the call recording you want for
personal use - but for another being apps aren't generally written to
specific laws, and certainly not the dozen or more freeware call recording
apps that we know exist.
o Automatic call recorder freeware (best)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A>

Anyway, it seems that even amongst call recorders are varying issues:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/c1hNBGTcAAAJ>

Where I suspect the OP's problem is simply finding a call recorder that
works on his particular phone model and Android version.
<https://i.postimg.cc/d096z8jG/callrecorder06.jpg>

For example, I'm on unrooted Android 9 & can automatically record calls
<https://i.postimg.cc/nVjRPd3B/callrecorder02.jpg>
using this F-Droid freeaware ad-free call recorder app by Axet:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.callrecorder/>

In summary, IMHO, there is _zero_ evidence supporting the claims that the
laws are the culprit (outside that UK laws clearly allow call recording
anyway).
<https://i.postimg.cc/v8tJz2Th/callrecorder03.jpg>

Given we now know that not all call recorders work on all phones, and on
all Android versions, Occam's Razor leads me to infer the OP simply needs
to find a freeware call recorder app that works on his particular brand of
phone and operating system (where the fact Android 9 tightened up on call
recording may be a factor in his dilemma).
--
Usenet threads should reason using logic, fact, & rational arguments.

[Brian Gregory]

On 10/04/2020 15:42, Malaki Soloman wrote:
> Hello group. I need a reliable call recorder on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I did
> have a fully-paid for Automatic Call Recorder Pro https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY
> installed but it doesn't work any more and some of the user reviews say that
> users in the UK are restricted in some way, and that's why the program
> doesn't work. I've looked around the Google Apps store for another call
> recorder but thought I'd ask a wider knowledge base here on their thoughts
> on this alleged restriction on Samsung devices in the UK and maybe get a few
> recommendations.
>

Google no longer allow call recorder apps in the Google Play store,
therefore if call recording is not built in to your device you need to
look elsewhere.

I use one called "ACR unChained".

You can sideload it or get in from the Galaxy app store or maybe the
Amazon app store.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

[Carlos E.R.]

No, it is the correct procedure. At the start of the recording, you have
to say that the conversation is being recorded, and the other party must
say that they are aware and that they consent.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 13/04/2020 05.29, Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote :
>
>> I'm not going to criticise him for that statement.  It seems that lots
>> of people misunderstand the European privacy and data protection laws,
>> and go on to say things that aren't true.  He is, sadly, far from alone.
>
> Hi David Higton,
>
> The facts clearly show that the one reference I read directly contradicts
> almost everything, if not everything, Joerg Lorenz seems to have claimed.
>
> I was simply warning you about Joerg Lorenz' utter lack of credibility.

Anything you say in that respect (about anyone) must be ignored, as you
are a known for this silly behaviour when people contradict you.

And now you you will go on to say that I'm on your list as well, which I
will ignore.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[s|b]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:08:49 +0530, Arlen Holder wrote:

> I'm on a Moto G7 which was born with Android 9
> and while my strategic goal
> is to only use the recorded calls for safety & emergency purposes (so I
> don't check the recordings unless there's a need to), I just checked, and
> the automatic recordings I randomly listened to appear to sound ok:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/v8tJz2Th/callrecorder03.jpg>

Both your voice and the voice of the other person? And you're using this
app?

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boldbeast.recorder&hl=en>

Scroll down a bit to see what they have to say about the app and Android
9/10. I'm pretty sure it didn't work anymore on my Nexus 5X (Android 9?)
and it still doesn't work on my Pixel 3 (Android 10). I could try and
root the device, but that isn't an option for me since some apps from my
provider will stop working if I do that. Not to mention the loss of
warranty.

> Therefore, the first thing I did when I saw your post was google the facts,
> as I am wont to do, which seems to back up your surprising-to-me claim that
> Android 9 disables automatic call recording:
> <https://www.nllapps.com/apps/acr/android9.htm>
>
> And yet, I'm on Android 9, and my free call recorder appears to work ok:
> o What's going on?
>
> I don't know.

<quote>

* However in some market areas a manufacturer may enable the call
recording feature in their own 9 phones, in this case no root needed,
just install this app and go, it records calls very well.

</quote>

Could be that is the case with your phone? Moto is mentioned (twice) by
Boldbeast Software. If that's the app you're using.

> It seems based only on a quick skim of the reports I found by googling,
> "some" non-rooted Android 9 call recorders work ok, while others don't, but
> it may be due to _how_ they record the calls (e.g., which input they use,
> for example).
> o Here┬ How You Can Continue Using Call Recording Apps On Android Pie & Q
> <https://beebom.com/workarounds-android-pie-call-recording-limitation/>

<quote>

As an aside, Google recently hinted that they are bringing call
recording functionality on their stock dialer app as spotted by XDA on
Pixel 4. What it means is that, in the future, all smartphones with
Stock Android will have built-in call recording capability once the
feature rolls out.

</quote>

I read something about that yesterday, but can't find the source
anymore.

> I don't know why though, but my Moto G7 Android 9 non-rooted phone seems to
> record calls.

See above. Guess you're one of the lucky ones. ;-)

--
s|b

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 14.04.20 um 15:17 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

If someone does it without consent? Do I have to accept it? Formally you
are right materially you are completely naive or even worse.

There are very good reasons to protect people from being recorded
without consent at the source: No such apps.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 14.04.20 um 17:32 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:

Ingrid: The laws are thankfully crystal clear in the civilised world.
Even evil Google accepts this fact in the meantime.

[123456789]

Malaki Soloman wrote:

> My phone (S10+) should be able to record calls without third-party
> Apps. The article says,

> Samsung has done is that depending on the region*, it offers call
> recording capabilities on the Galaxy S10e, Galaxy S10, and Galaxy
> S10+.

I also have a Galaxy S10+ (Android 10) and it has no native call
recording ability. I also see lots of articles saying it's included and
showing how to turn it on but none works on mine either. And I live in a one
party consent state (AZ-US).

BTW cops here make good use of it. For example they'll have the victim
make a recorded call to the suspect to discuss the alleged crime and
the suspect not yet aware the victim has gone to the police, makes lots
of recorded admissions and often even begs her not to go to the police.
The recorded admissions as you might imagine make exceptionally good
fodder for the jury. But it seldom gets that far because the suspect,
after hearing the recording, is very willing to play let's make a deal.

So be careful what you say on the phone if you live in a jurisdiction
like mine... ;)

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what s|b <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :

> Both your voice and the voice of the other person? And you're using this
> app?
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boldbeast.recorder&hl=en>

Hi s|b,

Wow. An adult conversation on Usenet, using facts - is rather refreshing!
o I love the added technical value you impart to this thread.

Thank you for your clarifications & questions where you and I seem to be
the only ones in this thread who base our belief systems on actual facts.

Yesterday I installed a few more call recorders to test them out as per:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/c1hNBGTcAAAJ>

Where I now have four freeware automatic call recorders (ACRs) installed:
<https://i.postimg.cc/G3GkfMRt/callrecorder04.jpg>

But those recordings were made earlier, when I only had two ACRs installed:
<https://i.postimg.cc/rpHFwmFF/callrecorder00.jpg>

While I set up the phone way back in the end of last year, I generally put
the best programs in any given desktop folder in order of best to worst,
where you'll note not only that the Boldbeast ACR was before the Axet ACR,
but also that the Axet ACR only had one recorded file (which was both sides
of the conversation).
<https://i.postimg.cc/nVjRPd3B/callrecorder02.jpg>

Yet, there was a current folder of _many_ current recorded files:
<https://i.postimg.cc/v8tJz2Th/callrecorder03.jpg>
Which, I think, perhaps, maybe, it was Boldbeast who created them.

The reason I'm not totally sure is that I had installed both ACRs long ago,
and just ignored them, as the recordings are simply there for safety or
emergency use, so I didn't really even think about them until now.

The one recording was in version "1.7.11 (217)" of this free ACR app:

o Call Recorder - Simple call recorder, no ads, open-source, by Axet
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.callrecorder/>

Which says:
"If it fails with high quality sound recording (voice line)
this app will switch back to the MIC recording..."

However, now that I think about it, I think you're right that the larger
set of more recent bidirectional recordings must have been from Boldbeast
which "apps_Packages Info" says is version "12.8 (86)"
o Call Recorder (No Ads), by Boldbeast Software Inc.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boldbeast.recorder>
Which confirms everything you've said!
"Google disabled the call recording feature in Android 9, as a result
in recordings your voice is good but the caller's voice is very weak."

I just listened to a couple random recordings where in some cases the other
party is weak but in other recordings both parties are loud and clear.

BTW, if you need me to post the procedures the ACRs execute, I can run:
o apps_Packages Info, by JajeurAndroid (Android-Applications-Info)
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.oF2pks.applicationsinfo/>
<https://github.com/MajeurAndroid/Android-Applications-Info>
Which, by the way, is a keeper of the first order for such things.
<https://www.boldbeast.com/android/voip_call_recorder.html>

> Scroll down a bit to see what they have to say about the app and Android
> 9/10. I'm pretty sure it didn't work anymore on my Nexus 5X (Android 9?)
> and it still doesn't work on my Pixel 3 (Android 10). I could try and
> root the device, but that isn't an option for me since some apps from my
> provider will stop working if I do that. Not to mention the loss of
> warranty.

Yup. I think you cleared up the mystery I experienced late last year!

I think you explained _why_ I had trouble with the automatic call recorders
(ACRs) way back last November when I switched from Android 7 to 9, since I
had never had any issues with call recording until I moved to Android 9!

When I moved from the LG Stylo 3 Plus to the Moto G7, I simply popped in
the SD card from the old phone into the new phone and re-installed the apps
one by one. I had trouble with the old automatic call recorders which I
didn't think much about as I found new (but different ones) which worked.

And then I promptly forgot about it since I only wish to use the files in
safety and emergency situations; however, the problem I was seeing when I
switched from Android 7 to Android 9 was likely this problem you speak of.

Luckily, at that time, I found two call recorders which seemed to work,
where, as you noted, the Boldbeast one is likely the one I have that did
the recent recordings, although I do have one recording from the Axet app
(all of which contain both parties).

What this tells us is that users need to do a trial and error process to
find the freeware ACR that works for their particular non rooted phone.

Luckily about a dozen freeware ACRs show up on my Aurora Store searches:
<https://i.postimg.cc/GhpWzprM/callrecorder05.jpg>
But notice in that screenshot that they can work very differently indeed.

> * However in some market areas a manufacturer may enable the call
> recording feature in their own 9 phones, in this case no root needed,
> just install this app and go, it records calls very well.

After reading that, I find what they say kind of capricious.
o Isn't there something more "concrete" than "some markets"?

I guess the problem is the developers can't test all phones, but still,
it's kind of odd that they say 'some markets', but we already saw that some
apps say they can't record, for example, wifi calls while others say they
can, which means - using Occam's Razor, as always - that each of these apps
may be using _different_ methods to record the phone calls.

Otherwise, why would "some markets" have different results on the same
phone?

> Could be that is the case with your phone? Moto is mentioned (twice) by
> Boldbeast Software. If that's the app you're using.

Yup. Since I like to build a belief system based on facts, the _only_ fact
I can tell you is that my non-rooted Android 9 Moto G7 on T-Mobile in the
USA seems to be working fine using Boldbeast as my ACR.
o That's the _only_ fact I can claim with any sense of conviction.

I see Moto is mentioned, in general, and for the problematic list:
o Pixel 2, Pixel 1,
o Nexus 6P, Nexus 6, Nexus 5X, Nexus 5, Nexus 4, '
o Moto G4, G2

I wonder if the OP has one of those models?

> As an aside, Google recently hinted that they are bringing call
> recording functionality on their stock dialer app as spotted by XDA on
> Pixel 4. What it means is that, in the future, all smartphones with
> Stock Android will have built-in call recording capability once the
> feature rolls out.

Yeah, I saw that.

For the record, I killed everything Google so you'll note I do _not_ use
the stock Google dialer, contacts, calendar, sms/mms app, etc.

Hence I can tell you that I get automatic call recording to work for free,
without ads, on Android 9, non rooted, Moto G7, _without_ using the stock
dialer (it's literally disabled).

> I read something about that yesterday, but can't find the source

> anymore. See above. Guess you're one of the lucky ones. ;-)

You cleared up, likely, perhaps, why when I installed my old APKs (which I
kept around and added to since the Android 4.4 days) from my Android 7 LG
Stylo 3 Plus, the call recorders didn't work.

So at that time, late last year, I hunted around and found two that did
work, where the one I recommend for the Moto G7 is the Boldbeast ACR, where
I noticed in researching this response that Boldbeast has a "green" and a
"yellow" call recorder:
<https://www.boldbeast.com/android/voip_call_recorder.html>

I'm not sure the difference since the "green" is working fine for me.
o Green:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boldbeast.recorder>
o Yellow:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boldbeast.voiprecorder>

Thank you for being a rare individual who adds value with technical facts!
--
Usenet allows purposefully helpful sharing of solutions for common benefit.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Brian Gregory <void-invalid...@gmail.com>
wrote :

> Google no longer allow call recorder apps in the Google Play store,
> therefore if call recording is not built in to your device you need to
> look elsewhere.

Hi Brian Gregory,

This is good information where I'm on an unrooted Android 9 Moto G7 which
happens to do automatic call recording just fine as s|b and I have been
discussing in more detail elsewhere in this thread.
<https://i.postimg.cc/d096z8jG/callrecorder06.jpg>

I would be very careful though in stating "Google no longer allows call
recorder apps on Google Play" simply because that's not apparently correct:
<https://i.postimg.cc/GhpWzprM/callrecorder05.jpg>

That list was yesterday, where there are at least a dozen, and likely more
as they can be listed under various names and those were just free ones.

> I use one called "ACR unChained".
>
> You can sideload it or get in from the Galaxy app store or maybe the
> Amazon app store.

As for the "Galaxy app store", I haven't heard of that before, where I
googled as I am wont to do when people discuss technical topics new to me:
<https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/galaxy-store/>

Apparently Galaxy Apps is an app store for Android that doesn't use a
Google account but which needs a Samsung user account.

Personally, I don't even have a Google Account set up on my phone, where
the Aurora Store is an anonymous scraper of the Google Play store.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.store/>

Searching for "ACR unChained" on my desktop showed this in Google Play:
o Call Recorder - ACR, by NLL
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nll.acr>

A google search found the term in my previous posts over here:

o Automatic call recorder freeware (best)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A>

Specifically in this article:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/c1hNBGTcAAAJ>

Which references this cite:
o Here's How You Can Continue Using Call Recording Apps On Android Pie & Q
<https://beebom.com/workarounds-android-pie-call-recording-limitation/>

Which says to obtain it from this apkmirror link:
<https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/nll/call-recorder-acr/call-recorder-acr-32-9-unchained-release/call-recorder-acr-32-9-unchained-android-apk-download/>

Which I downloaded to my desktop and installed on Android over Wi-Fi:
o Name: com.nll.acr_33.1-unChained-10331_minAPI21(arm64-v8a,armeabi-v7a)(nodpi)_apkmirror.com.apk
o Size: 10411059 bytes (10167 KiB)
o SHA256: 3FD3FA8E50AB883F99BF46F5508CB78C559BA943EBD385478901471C01C6FD6C
<https://i.postimg.cc/G3GkfMRt/callrecorder04.jpg>

Two questions about "ACR unchained" that I'd love to know more about are:
a. Why is it called "unchained" (i.e., what does it mean to be "unchained?)
b. What's the practical difference with the Google Play version?

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

> While some people here are assuming I use a call recorder for nefarious
> reasons

Hi Malaki Soloman,

You don't need to justify why you'd want call recording because it's
perfectly legal, particularly in the UK, based on the prior Wiki cite.

If someone wants to take away your rights, then it's up to them to justify,
rationally, logically, and reasonably, why you shouldn't have that right.

I use an automatic call recorder and have been using them since, oh, I
don't know, since Android 4.4 or so, and I don't feel any need to justify
their existence or use except to the trolls (like nospam) when he's trying
to claim that Apple won't allow them for legal reasons (which is bullshit).
o A perfect example of *why* you want an automatic call recorder on iOS
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Vzqi7TMVgPs/rYRQWs0Vo8YJ>
o Why do Apple Apologists lie so much about iOS capabilities?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/98CPbQfNTV8/dTVK7PesBgAJ>
o Android automatic call recording for free on Apple iOS iPhones sans jailbreaking
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wtm8DFXuz20/IoGmkjsABwAJ>

You don't need to justify why you'd want call recording, but you do need to
let us know what model phone you have (I may have missed it somewhere) and
what version of Android, and what ACR apps you find don't work for you.

For me, the Boldbeast app seems to work just fine, so I'd recommend it
first, but see the notes s|b and I are talking about for the small set of
phones that it's known to have issues with and their strange "markets".
o Call Recorder by Boldbeast (free, no ads, GSF dependent)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boldbeast.recorder>

If you don't have the small handful of problematic phones, I suspect that
freeware APK will work fine for you, even on Android 9 or 10 (but that's up
to you to confirm).
--
The great benefit of the public Usenet potluck is we learn from each other.

[NY]

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote in message
news:r74l32$lma$3...@dont-email.me...

When tape recorders (as opposed to solid-state recording devices) first
became available, allowing a call to be recorded, I remember seeing a FAQ
about the legality of recording a conversation. I presume this was for the
UK. The answer was that it was legal for either person to record the
conversation that they were participating in, without needing to inform or
get the permission of the other party. This was as long as the recording was
for reference only ("what did we discuss? what did we decide") and not for
publication. You only needed to inform the other person if there was a
chance that you might need to refer to it in a court case (eg for
enforcement of a contract) and that it is for this reason that companies
inform you "all calls are recorded".

What was illegal (without suitable wire-tapping authority) was recording a
conversation by someone other that one of the participants in it.


I've no idea whether the law is still the same or whether nowadays even
private individuals have to inform each other and seek their consent.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 15.04.20 um 09:49 schrieb NY:

> When tape recorders (as opposed to solid-state recording devices) first
> became available, allowing a call to be recorded, I remember seeing a FAQ
> about the legality of recording a conversation. I presume this was for the
> UK. The answer was that it was legal for either person to record the
> conversation that they were participating in, without needing to inform or
> get the permission of the other party. This was as long as the recording was
> for reference only ("what did we discuss? what did we decide") and not for
> publication. You only needed to inform the other person if there was a
> chance that you might need to refer to it in a court case (eg for
> enforcement of a contract) and that it is for this reason that companies
> inform you "all calls are recorded".
>
> What was illegal (without suitable wire-tapping authority) was recording a
> conversation by someone other that one of the participants in it.
>
>
> I've no idea whether the law is still the same or whether nowadays even
> private individuals have to inform each other and seek their consent.

The law changed long long time ago.

[NY]

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote in message

news:r76i13$nat$2...@dont-email.me...

Is that in the UK? I never knew that the law had changed. Any idea when it
was?

So even a recording between friends has to be authorised by both people
nowadays?

You've also got the interesting issue of accidental recordings. I answered
my phone just after the answerphone had kicked in and started to record the
caller's message. We carried on talking, and it was only about half an hour
later when I got a warning that all the memory had been used up, that I
realised the answerphone had recorded everything.

I tend to assume that any time I speak on the phone on a business call,
there is the chance that my words might be recorded - electronically or by
someone making notes - and don't say anything that I would regret if it
became public knowledge.

[NY]

"NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:r76jni$4lc$1...@dont-email.me...

>>> I've no idea whether the law is still the same or whether nowadays even
>>> private individuals have to inform each other and seek their consent.
>>
>> The law changed long long time ago.
>
> Is that in the UK? I never knew that the law had changed. Any idea when it
> was?
>
> So even a recording between friends has to be authorised by both people
> nowadays?

https://www.ereceptionist.co.uk/blog/legal-to-record-phone-calls-uk and
https://www.telemessage.com/can-you-record-calls-in-the-uk-and-what-regulations-affect-it/
suggest that recording a phone call that you are participating in
(presumably without the other person's consent) is *not* illegal, even under
GDPR rules, providing you don't share the recording with anyone else.

[s|b]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:54:12 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:

> Google no longer allow call recorder apps in the Google Play store,

Yes, they do. The difference is, they don't always work.

--
s|b

[Carlos E.R.]

That's absurd.

Recording of conversations is done on all phone business contracts here,
so the facilities to record do exist. And all they do is saying "this is
going to be recorded, do you agree?" If you don't, then the procedure is
cancelled and you have to use other means than a phone call to do the
contracting.

On some places the recording is started manually by the clerk when
entering the contract section, and on others the recording affects the
entire conversation, and I get a prerecorded explanation right at the
start. I'm free to hang up at this moment.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Malaki Soloman <malaki...@gmail.com> wrote :

> This works! Not only does it record both sides of the conversation clearly
> after going into settings and increasing the sound level (Db), it produces a
> display of the person I've been in conversation with if they're already on
> my contacts list. Thank you very much for this, for your patience, and for
> spending so much time on this issue to get around Google's petty decision
> outlawing call recorders.

Hi Malaki Soloman,

Woo hoo!

Thank you for trying out the Automatic Call Recorder "ACR Unchained" that
Brian Gregory helpfully suggested, and specifically for the courtesy of
reporting back to us, since we faithfully tried to help and hence we're
ecstatic that one of the many ACRs out there worked for you.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/wFr1RLYFAQAJ>

Occam's Razor logic told most of us right off the bat that it was far more
likely that your issues were not legal, nor political, but technical,
particularly since almost everyone seems to have difficulty, nowadays, with
automatic call recording (as did I).
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/8U6v2WaLAQAJ>

What I love about Usenet is we all learn more by helping each other.

For example, while Occam's Razor implied the correct solution for you from
the start, what we _learned_ from this thread is that Google did change
_how_ ACR apps could record in Android 9 & 10, which I thank s|b for
helpfully highlighting.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/uTURAfADAQAJ>

>>Two questions about "ACR unchained" that I'd love to know more about are:
>>a. Why is it called "unchained" (i.e., what does it mean to be "unchained?)
>>b. What's the practical difference with the Google Play version?
>

> Can't help you there, Arlen, apart from telling you that the Google Play
> version doesn't work on S10+.

Always following Occam's Razor logic, after googling, I think "unchained"
simply indicates that the developers tried to divorce themselves from the
Google Play Store as they, themselves, explain here:
<https://nllapps.com/apps/acr/google-denies-phone-number-accesss.htm>

Essentially,
o As of March 9, 2015, Google no longer allows ACRs "CALL LOG" permission.
o This cripples ACR's ability to show the phone number of the conversation.
o This only affects the Google Play version (which means it's crippled).
o Google won't even allow the company to have their own download link.
o Google won't allow the company to work around the problem either.
o So you have to get the unchained APK outside those two canonical sites.
o The developers suggest Huawei's App Gallery and Samsung's Galaxy Store
o An independent article suggested the APK Mirror link that I dug up.

There are a lot more details in that link, but essentially the Google Play
version of the NLL Apps ACR is crippled, while the "unchained" version
available outside their site is the fully functional app.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Tb8wf4fJu_A/wwENOd1NBQAJ>
--
The beauty of helping others on Usenet is we all learn more together.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :

> Is that in the UK? I never knew that the law had changed. Any idea when it
> was?

Hi NY,

It's perfectly legal to record a phone call in the UK based on the single
article I read in Wikipedia, and which I cited earlier in this thread.

Despite the wildly fantastic wholly fabricated claims from Joerg Lorenz,
nobody has found otherwise, which is why I opined from the start that the
OP's automatic call recorder (ACR) issue was more likely to be technical,
and not legal (as per Occam's Razor logic).

To that end, the OP kindly confirmed that the initial logical suggestions
were correct, which means this thread could have had only 2 posts and it
would have resolved the problem (without Joerg & Carlos playing their
always silly childish games without ever being purposefully helpful).
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/8U6v2WaLAQAJ>

Luckily purposefully helpful adults like s|b provided more accurate factual
information about the changes that occurred for ACRs starting on Android 9.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/uTURAfADAQAJ>

I confess I don't understand people like Joerg & Carlos who not only don't
have a purposefully helpful bone in their bodies, but they incessantly
prove their entire belief systgems are based on exactly _zero_ (0) facts,
and hence, they waste everyone's time playing their silly childish games.

The good news is the OP's problem was solved, where adults always knew it
had almost zero chance of having anything to do with UK-specific laws,
particularly when it appears to be perfectly legal in the UK & elsewhere.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/VtuZloM4AQAJ>
--
People who incesssantly bullshit seem to be on Usenet for their amusement.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 15.04.20 um 11:21 schrieb NY:

> "Joerg Lorenz" <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote in message

>> The law changed long long time ago.
>
> Is that in the UK? I never knew that the law had changed. Any idea when it
> was?

The UK is part of the European Union since 1973.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 15.04.20 um 11:37 schrieb NY:

> https://www.ereceptionist.co.uk/blog/legal-to-record-phone-calls-uk and
> https://www.telemessage.com/can-you-record-calls-in-the-uk-and-what-regulations-affect-it/
> suggest that recording a phone call that you are participating in
> (presumably without the other person's consent) is *not* illegal, even under
> GDPR rules, providing you don't share the recording with anyone else.

To avoid ramifications the App-Stores do not distribute such software
anymore. Google Play Store and Apple App-Store do not offer software
anymore that are able to record phone calls.

Recording of phone calls in the EU is illegal without consent and not
illegal per se. Guess what?

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 15.04.20 um 12:55 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

> That's absurd.
>
> Recording of conversations is done on all phone business contracts here,
> so the facilities to record do exist. And all they do is saying "this is
> going to be recorded, do you agree?" If you don't, then the procedure is
> cancelled and you have to use other means than a phone call to do the
> contracting.

Read the thread. You are repeating things dicussed earlier in the thread.

In the business context the consent has to be even in written form.

[Frank Slootweg]

Not that it matters much, but you probably meant 1993.

"The EU and European citizenship were established when the Maastricht
Treaty came into force in 1993."

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union>

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 15.04.20 um 18:01 schrieb Frank Slootweg:

That has nothing to do with the validity of European legislation. And my
statement says that the UK is part of the today's Union since 73. Not
more an not less.

[Frank Slootweg]

Sigh! Dodge and divert, erect straw men and back-pedal much?

I'm not saying European legislation doesn't apply (now).

What I *did* address is: You said "The UK is part of the European
Union since 1973.", but the *European* Union only exists since 1993s, so
the UK *could not* be part of the EU 20 years earliers, hence my gentle
correction. Got it now!?

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote :

> To avoid ramifications the App-Stores do not distribute such software
> anymore. Google Play Store and Apple App-Store do not offer software
> anymore that are able to record phone calls.
>
> Recording of phone calls in the EU is illegal without consent and not
> illegal per se. Guess what?

Hi Joerg Lorenz,

People like you literally scare me...
o *Do you have even a _single_ fact that you base your belief system upon?*

o HINT: We posted _plenty_ of ACRs on Google & on European laws.
o All of which are facts you are completely ignorant of.

*What scares me is that Joerg actually _believes_ everything he writes*!
o How can someone _that_ obviously & unfathomably stupid even survive?
--
The fact that people like Joerg even exist - should scare the rest of us.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what s|b <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote :

>> Google no longer allow call recorder apps in the Google Play store,
>
> Yes, they do. The difference is, they don't always work.

Hi s|b,

I don't know how to say this, but what is very strange about a _lot_ of
posters to Usenet (and who posted to this thread, but not you or me) is
that many of the people posting clearly have formed very strong belief
systems without even a single shred of evidence backing them up.

I just don't understand these people.
o Do you?

Do they actually _believe_ what they claim as fact?
o Or are they all just playing games with us (i.e., pulling our leg)?

I admit I just don't understand them.
o Nobody can possibly be that stupid. Nobody.

So why do they say that there aren't ACR apps when a single look would tell
them there are plenty, and this entire thread discussed plenty more?

I just don't understand these people as I don't know how to converse with
people whose strongly held belief systems are entirely imaginary.
--
Usenet works best when adults post with purposefully helpful intentions.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 15.04.20 um 20:11 schrieb Frank Slootweg:

You are always interested in confrontations that have nothing to do with
the thread subject.

You exactly survived 2 days outside my kill file.

*PLONK*

[NY]

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote in message

news:r77brq$6ql$1...@dont-email.me...

> That has nothing to do with the validity of European legislation. And my
> statement says that the UK is part of the today's Union since 73. Not
> more an not less.

Strictly speaking, the UK was part of the EEC (European Economic Community,
aka "The Common Market") since we voted to join in the early 70s, until the
EEC mutated into the EU in the early 90s after the Treaties of Maastricht
and Amsterdam. It has only been part of the EU (like all other member
states) since that date, because the EU didn't exist before then.

A lot of the reason for the UK leaving the EU is that it was no longer the
organisation that we voted to join in the 1970s, and had given itself
addition powers (legal, financial, regulatory) that the EEC did not have, as
well as admitting a lot of other countries which were not members when the
UK public voted to join, I suspect (from talking to people) that a lot of
those people who voted to leave would have been quite happy to stay if could
go back to EEC rules: a trading alliance without loss of sovereignty or
immigration control.

[NY]

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote in message

news:r77asf$nl3$7...@dont-email.me...

No it doesn't. If I phone a call centre of a company, I may get a recorded
message "calls are recorded for training purposes" etc. That notification is
deemed to be sufficient: I don't get asked to confirm verbally that I agree
to the call being recorded, let alone having to do so in writing. That has
been the case for several years: since before the GDPR regulations were
introduced , and still continues even after we have left the EU.

[Carlos E.R.]

Nope.

We have legislation covering verbal contracts with call centres and
such. Recording the conversations is a requirement, and the recording is
kept forever as proof of contract, instead of the signature.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Frank Slootweg]

Says he who - apparently - can't even handle a *gentle* correction to
an incorrect statement. (Never mind that my comment was on-topic.)

In the meantime, others have not only corrected you as well, but have
debunked your blatant nonsense.

> You exactly survived 2 days outside my kill file.
>
> *PLONK*

I'm trembling in my wooden shoes!

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote :

> In the meantime, others have not only corrected you as well, but have
> debunked your blatant nonsense.

Hi Frank,

As you know, you and I often disagree, where I stick to the facts.
o What amazes me though, is that people like Joerg Lorenz _actually_ exist.

I've never met anyone, in person, who is like he is, but as we noted on
this thread alone (let alone in the Apple newsgroups Joerg frequents),
there are _tons_ of people whose entire belief system isn't based on even a
_single_ fact.

Yet, they believe, very strongly, in what they claim.
o Even though there isn't a single fact that they base their claims upon.

As you're aware, I'm highly educated where I can only presume these people
aren't since you can't last a day in the Silicon Valley, for example,
always being wrong like they are.

Nor could they ever graduate from any university always being that wrong.
o They might not even be able to graduate high school always being wrong.

*Their entire belief system - is completely imaginary*.
o Like that of an adult-looking person yet frozen in time as a small child.

What amazes me is that such people as Joerg apparently _really_ do exist.
o And that thought alone is downright scary.

And yet, on the Apple newsgroups in particular, they literally abound!
o (Which is why, I posit, they gravitate to highly-marketed yet purely
imaginary functionality, which Apple is happy to feed them to believe).
--
People like Joerg Lorenz literally petrify me that they actually exist.

[Lu Wei]

On 2020-4-10 22:42, Malaki Soloman wrote:
> Hello group. I need a reliable call recorder on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I did
> have a fully-paid for Automatic Call Recorder Pro https://bit.ly/2JRaPBY
> installed but it doesn't work any more and some of the user reviews say that
> users in the UK are restricted in some way, and that's why the program
> doesn't work. I've looked around the Google Apps store for another call
> recorder but thought I'd ask a wider knowledge base here on their thoughts
> on this alleged restriction on Samsung devices in the UK and maybe get a few
> recommendations.
>
Could you install another "phone" app (or "call" app, "dialer" app, I am
not sure) to replace the corresponding system app? I don't know if it
could be done without root, but if it can, then you could just install a
normal "phone" app from a non-stripped android version. FYI all android
phone I see in china have recorder function, either by tapping recorder
icon during call or by turn on recording by default.


--
Regards,
Lu Wei
IM: xmpp:luwe...@riotcat.org
PGP: 0xA12FEF7592CCE1EA

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 16.04.20 um 22:21 schrieb Arlen Holder:

> In response to what Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote :
>
>> In the meantime, others have not only corrected you as well, but have
>> debunked your blatant nonsense.
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> As you know, you and I often disagree, where I stick to the facts.
> o What amazes me though, is that people like Joerg Lorenz _actually_ exist.

Arlen,

I made your usenet-provider aware of you asocial behaviour in the Usenet.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote :

> I made your usenet-provider aware of you asocial behaviour in the Usenet.

Hi Joerg Lorenz,

His name is "Steve Crook", and we've conversed at times via email.

Now to the key point of expecting people like you to act like an adult:
o *Why I'm petrified, Joerg, is that people like you actually exist.*

I've never met anyone like you in person; but people like you whose belief
systems are based on exactly zero actual facts seem to abound on Usenet.

Every single statement you made in this thread, Joerg Lorenz, was wrong.
o Not a single statement you made was based on even a _single_ fact.

Think about that.
o *Please consider how utterly horrifying that fact is to someone like me.*

I need you to understand, Joerg, that you need to look at yourself.
o Just as people like you need to look at themselves.

People like you are Jolly Roger, Lewis, BK, Alan Baker, et al.
o None of you are educated - but that's not your real problem.

Your real problem is you are all fantastically _immune_ to facts.

Why?
o I don't know why.

Even educated people, like Steve Scharf get the facts dead wrong.
o But not as frequently as you do.

In this thread the facts are clear that there are other people like you.
a. People claimed Google Play doesn't allow ACRs, and yet, it does.
b. People claimed call recording was illegal in the UK, and yet it's not.
c. People claimed ACR tools didn't work in the UK, and yet they do.
etc.

*Why I'm petrified, Joerg Lorenz, is that people like you actually exist*.
--
What petrifies me is that people like Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger, Lewis, BK,
Alan Baker, et al. - who all prove time and again to own strongly held
belief systems which are completely immune to facts - actually exist.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 17.04.20 um 09:33 schrieb Malaki Soloman:
> Which says to obtain it from this apkmirror link:
> <https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/nll/call-recorder-acr/call-recorder-acr-32-9-unchained-release/call-recorder-acr-32-9-unchained-android-apk-download/>
> Automatic Call Recording can be accomplished by sideloading the app from the
> above link. It works fine on my A10+ and I would like to buy it but the app
> takes me to Google Play Store which I believe is where the problem lies,
> hence ACR-unchained (from Google Play Store). Buying it, though, might make
> changes to the app which prevent me from using it, so I'll continue with the
> free version.

Structurally you are the same Troll as Arlen.

When even Google and Apple accept that call recording without consent is
not acceptable in the civilised world you should start to rethink your
attitude.

Both companies understand that in private conversations the called
person hardly ever accepts recording of the conversation. There is a
reason for the legislation as it is today. The technical possibilty was
too often misused in the past.

It is that simple, dear.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-17 12:58 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> --
> What petrifies me is that people like Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger, Lewis, BK,
> Alan Baker, et al. - who all prove time and again to own strongly held
> belief systems which are completely immune to facts - actually exist.

You mean like the "strongly held belief system" of someone who insists
that a note which references Apple's Privacy Policy...

...is in fact that policy?

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote :

> When even Google and Apple accept that call recording without consent is
> not acceptable in the civilised world you should start to rethink your
> attitude.
>
> Both companies understand that in private conversations the called
> person hardly ever accepts recording of the conversation. There is a
> reason for the legislation as it is today. The technical possibilty was
> too often misused in the past.
>
> It is that simple, dear.

What's horrifying is that it _is_ really that simple to people like Joerg.
--
People like Joerg don't let facts complicate their imaginary belief system.