SD memory

[Dieter Britz]

My phone, an about 2-3 year old Moto, has 16 Gb memory.
SOmetoimes when installing something, it tells me there
not enough memory left - currently I am using about 14
out of the 16. I did put in an SD card with 64 Gb.

So, is there a way I can tell the phone to use some of
that when installing stuff?

--
Dieter Britz

[Andy Burns]

depends, newer androids can "adopt" SD storage as though it's additional
internal storage, will need re-formatting though, and after that you
can't take it out (e.g to transfer files elsewhere)

<https://www.androidcentral.com/adoptable-storage>

[VanguardLH]

"2-3 year old Moto" doesn't say which version of Android is on it.

The default location for installing apps and storing data is currently
set to use the internal storage on your phone, not your SD card. You
will have to change the default install location. Later, in each app,
you'll have to change its default location where it stores data.

I don't remember a handy and exposed user-configurable setting for
defining the default installation location in the OS. After enabling
Developer Options on your phone, and then going into Developer Options
to enable USB Debugging mode, plug the phone into your PC (where you
have to install the ADB - Android Debug Bridge - driver), and run one of
the following commands:

adb shell pm setInstallLocation 2
or
adb shell pm set-install-location 2

0 = auto (let OS decide best install location)
1 = internal (install on internal storage)
2 = external (install on external storage)

However, this override can make some apps malfunction. As noted below,
not all apps will run if installed on external storage. Some will let
you move their data to there, but need their code back on internal
storage.

When you download a new app, its APK file goes to /data/local on
internal storage. No choice on that. When the APK gets installed,
where the app depends on settings hardcoded by the app author or by
defaults in the OS. If the app author did NOT specify the
android:installation attribute in the manifest for his app, the app
installs to internal storage. If the app author set that attribute to
preferExternal, and if external storage is available, then the app
installs to external storage. If the app author specified auto, the
installation path depends on choices in the OS: (1) if the app has
widgets, services, wants to load at boot (is sticky), and some other
functions that require the app be installed on internal storage then the
app gets installed on internal storage; or, (2) the app goes where is
configured the default installation location.

For each app already installed and on internal storage, go into the
app's settings, and under Storage you can change where it stores its
data files. Not all apps can be moved to external storage, and many
will only partially moved to external storage, like just their own data
files will move but not the program. Not all apps will run their code
from external storage. If the Move to SD Card option is disabled, the
app author knows the app cannot run from external storage or severe
consequences ensue if even its data is moved to external storage, like a
huge loss or lag in performance, use of a widget, or a service. This is
probably the safest installation method: let the app decide where to
install, or use the default in the OS if the app doesn't specify, and
then see if the option to move the app or just its data to the SD card
is enabled in the settings for the app.

Some info here:
https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/install-location

I suggest NOT using Adoptable Storage. That has the OS add the SD card
to the internal storage to create a larger volume. The process will
destroy all data on the SD card. Contents of the SD card will get
encrypted, so you cannot remove it to use the data elsewhere. If you
later decide to unadopt your SD card (slice the devices out of the
volume), again anything on the SD card gets destroyed so the card
becomes unencrypted.

https://source.android.com/devices/storage/adoptable
https://www.androidcentral.com/adoptable-storage

In addition, you are mixing faster internal storage with slower external
storage (SD card). You'll end up with your volume (a mix of internal
and external when using adoptable storage) being sometimes fast and
sometimes slow.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 09:09:47 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

> The default location for installing apps and storing data is currently
> set to use the internal storage on your phone, not your SD card.

Vanguard's advice, as is almost always the case, is useful, detailed,
and accurate.

Also, there are tons of answers to the OP's question on the net, e.g.,
o How to Transfer Files from Android Storage to an Internal SD Card
<https://www.online-tech-tips.com/smartphones/how-to-transfer-files-from-android-storage-to-an-internal-sd-card/>

One other option that I _used_ to do in the olden days was run a "mover"
or a "files to sdcard" transfer program, which moved files either manually
or automatically from the internal storage to the external storage sdcard.

The app I used on my S3 has been deprecated, so I didn't look which apps
still move files periodically in a timed "sweep", but that's another option
(although, of course, it's not without its flaws as it has to be done
intelligently, e.g., it works for photos but not necessarily for maps).

Given I don't like to suggest software without suggesting "specific" software
(to make it more useful to the reader), I just ran a quick search
and found this "potential" app, called, "moveit".
o Transfer Data Automatically to SD Card Using MoveIt
<https://techgeekers.com/transfer-data-automatically-sd-card-using-move/>

I find some of that description "suspicious", so if you do use it,
let us know how it works, as I choose apps that allow me to store their data
on my external sdcard, so I don't need such "moveit" apps; but they may work
for others.
o <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=moveit&c=apps>

There are tons in that list, so this is just a sample of the possibilities:
o Auto Move To SD Card, by GoNextTools, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gonext.automovetosdcard>

o Files To SD Card, by Michal Bukacek, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.bukacek.filestosdcard>

o AppMgr III (App 2 SD, Hide and Freeze apps), by Sam LuTools, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.a0soft.gphone.app2sd>

o File Move Phone to SD card , Apps Share, by samuelstore, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.abbsdcard.filemanager>

o Move It: Move to SD Card Files (move apps), by G.00b, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gb.appmanager>

o SD File Transfer (Move Files To SD Card Or Phone), by SociuTools, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.doionline.sdcardfiletransfer>

o Move To SD Card, by Big Joker, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=big.joker.movetosdcard>

o Move app to SD card, by jumobiledo, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ljmobile.move.app>

o Move To SD Card Files, by photostudioapps, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.photostudio.movetosd>

o Move to sd card, by Appstudio01, Contains Ads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sp.movefilestosdcard>

Note: None of these seem to do what I used to do, which was an automatic
sweep of the internal storage to move stuff to external storage on a timer.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others who ask questions.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:21:35 -0000 (UTC), Dieter Britz wrote:

> So, is there a way I can tell the phone to use some of
> that when installing stuff?

Tough question to answer in the absolute because of course you can, with
the latest Android releases, literally swap the external sdcard with the
internal storage; but very few people I know actually do that (well,
actually, I don't know _anyone_ who has done that - not even me).

Which then leaves you with the age-old question of how to "offload"
"some" of your storage needs to the sdcard.

The _simplest_ way is perhaps to install a decent storage manager which
will tell you which apps are using the most storage, say, oh, maybe
o Disk Usage <com.google.android.diskusage>

Once you find which apps are using the most storage space...

Then, set each of those apps to store its data on the external sdcard
o If the app doesn't have that setting, find a similar app that does

Given the sdcard root hierarchy is almost as polluted as the Android
storage, my additional suggestion is to pick a single folder on the sdcard
to put your "stuff", and _only_ put your stuff in _that_ folder.

For example, "mystuff", and then under "mystuff" you can put
externalsdcard/mystuff/DCIM
externalcard/mystuff/Screenshots
externalcard/mystuff/Recordings
etc.

That way, EOY backup to terabyte sized external storage is as simple as
copying over your "mystuff" directory.

[The Real Bev]

I think so, but it's been a while... The problem is that many apps just
refuse to install themselves on an SD card -- filling up your internal
memory while leaving your sdcard maddeningly empty.

I solved the problem by getting a Moto 5G with 64GB internal memory plus
a 64GB card, and then replaced that with a Pixel2 with 128GB internal
memory -- no sdcard slot. I've used only 34GB so far, so I'm happy.

I put a Freedompop SIM in the Moto phone, intending to use it mostly to
look for gas stations or send quick email when traveling. No occasion
to actually use that so far -- thanks, COVID!

--
Cheers, Bev
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

[Carlos E.R.]

I would first check to see what apps can store their data on the
"external" card. Typically, photos and videos from the camera would go
there. The map app OsmAnd, can store there its big maps. Not many apps can.

Then you would need to move your existing photos to the card.

The other day, one of my two identical tablets (one has the glass broken
and doesn't respond to the touch) complained that the internal memory
was full. I could not pinpoint any culprit, and some of the apps for
diagnosis that I had installed failed to run. In the end, I rebooted the
thing, and something like 16 GB disappeared.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[VanguardLH]

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> Dieter Britz wrote:
>
>> My phone, an about 2-3 year old Moto, has 16 Gb memory.
>> SOmetoimes when installing something, it tells me there
>> not enough memory left - currently I am using about 14
>> out of the 16. I did put in an SD card with 64 Gb.
>>
>> So, is there a way I can tell the phone to use some of
>> that when installing stuff?
>
> I would first check to see what apps can store their data on the
> "external" card. Typically, photos and videos from the camera would
> go there. The map app OsmAnd, can store there its big maps. Not many
> apps can.

The camera app that came bundled on my smartphone has a setting to
specify where to save new pics or vids, like to the SD card.

Google Maps: Can store its offline maps to external storage.
HERE [WeGo]: Can store its offline maps to external storage.

With Google Maps, you have to select a region to capture and store. I
have my hometown and my most vacationed cities stored offline, and they
consume 266 MB and 410 MB, respectively, of external storage (SD card).

With HERE, you can select by granularity (country, state, city) what to
store offline. I selected all of "North and Central America" which
consumed 7 GB of external storage.

While HERE lets me store a lot more based on size, it has less POI
(Points of Interest) than Google Maps. HERE is good when I'm travelling
outside the regions (usually cities) that I captured with Google Maps,
but Google Maps is more handy within those regions for finding
restaurants, libraries, post offices, and other POIs.

Because of the size of the downloads to update the offline maps, I
configured both apps to download only when my phone has a wifi
connection. Those are the 2 map apps that I settled on after trying
several. I have other apps that include maps, but those don't have
their own map service and instead rely on the Google Maps API to get
maps or portions of them from Google Maps.

> Then you would need to move your existing photos to the card.

Quite often when configuring the app's settings to store some of it to
external storage, it doesn't tell you the path to the external storage
where it will thereafter store new pics. After you save one, you can
find where it got put, and then move your old pics to the new location
using any file manager.

By configuring the apps to save their data to external storage, and then
moving the old data to the new location, and by going into each app's
settings to see if an option is available and enabled to [partially]
move the app or its existing data to external storage, the OP should be
able to free up a lot of internal storage.

As I mentioned, there is the option to meld internal and external
storage into one volume which will make internal storage look larger by
adding in the external storage, but there are gotchas doing that.

[AJL]

On 1/2/2021 2:32 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

> Google Maps is more handy within those regions for finding
> restaurants, libraries, post offices, and other POIs.

Including real time speed traps as entered by your fellow travelers.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 02/01/2021 22.32, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>> Dieter Britz wrote:
>>
>>> My phone, an about 2-3 year old Moto, has 16 Gb memory.
>>> SOmetoimes when installing something, it tells me there
>>> not enough memory left - currently I am using about 14
>>> out of the 16. I did put in an SD card with 64 Gb.
>>>
>>> So, is there a way I can tell the phone to use some of
>>> that when installing stuff?
>>
>> I would first check to see what apps can store their data on the
>> "external" card. Typically, photos and videos from the camera would
>> go there. The map app OsmAnd, can store there its big maps. Not many
>> apps can.
>
> The camera app that came bundled on my smartphone has a setting to
> specify where to save new pics or vids, like to the SD card.

Yes, that's usual.

>
> Google Maps: Can store its offline maps to external storage.
> HERE [WeGo]: Can store its offline maps to external storage.
>
> With Google Maps, you have to select a region to capture and store. I
> have my hometown and my most vacationed cities stored offline, and they
> consume 266 MB and 410 MB, respectively, of external storage (SD card).

How do you tell google maps to use external storage? Last time I looked
(which might have been two years ago) I did not see it.

...

> As I mentioned, there is the option to meld internal and external
> storage into one volume which will make internal storage look larger by
> adding in the external storage, but there are gotchas doing that.

Yep. I don't like those gotchas :-(


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[VanguardLH]

As I recall, that was Google acquiring Waze to meld that service and
data into their maps database.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/29/google-maps-adds-ability-to-see-speed-limits-and-speed-traps-in-40-countries/

I remember looking at Waze a long time ago. Not so much for the speed
trap or traffic interruption data, but for the non-main (alternative)
routing feature. A lot of residents complained about Waze rerouting its
users from the main roads into the residential neighborhoods.

Google already had some features of Waze before acquiring Waze, so there
was no draw for me to use Waze. Then when Waze merged with Google,
there was no reason to bother with Waze despite the Waze app is still
available separately.

[VanguardLH]

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> How do you tell google maps to use external storage? Last time I looked
> (which might have been two years ago) I did not see it.

Google Maps app -> YourIcon (right-side of search bar) -> Offline Maps
-> Settings (gear) -> Storage preferences

[Carlos E.R.]

Found it, thanks :-)

It warns that searching the map without connection may be slower (I
expected this). I'll try.

Huh, I might want a bigger card now, it is filling up :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 22:52:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> The camera app that came bundled on my smartphone has a setting to
>> specify where to save new pics or vids, like to the SD card.
>
> Yes, that's usual.

Carlos is correct, as it's normal for "most" Camera apps to allow the user
to set where he puts his DCIM (either internal or external storage).

However, the funny thing about the Google Gcam APK port is...
o There is no setting to store DCIM on the external HDD (AFAIK)

That sucks...
o As the Google Gcam APK port is the best app out there (AFAIK)

But, luckily, all good gallery apps can find pictures anywhere
o Hence a manual move of DCIM to the external sdcard works fine

But it's still a negative that the otherwise pretty good Google GCAM APK
port is unable to put photos directly onto the external sdcard memory.
o How to install Google Pixel Gcam APK port on almost any Android phone
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.photo.digital/c/LtY49dG01mc/>

> How do you tell google maps to use external storage? Last time I looked
> (which might have been two years ago) I did not see it.

I had used Google Maps offline storage since the early beta days
o But I gave up on Google Maps offline storage in the past few years

Mainly I didn't like that they instituted a login requirement
o Which I don't know if they still enforce

Plus, originally, it would just complain after 29 days
o But later, it wiped out the offline maps after those 29 days expired

I mean, how much do maps _change_ in a month?
o Almost nothing, right?

So why did Google enforce an Android 29 day requirement (28 days on iOS)?
o I don't know if they still enforce it though

Because, and I just checked, they _require_ a sign in to download maps.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg> Google Offline Maps GUI
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg> Requires Google login

>> As I mentioned, there is the option to meld internal and external
>> storage into one volume which will make internal storage look larger by
>> adding in the external storage, but there are gotchas doing that.
>
> Yep. I don't like those gotchas :-(

Like Vanguard & Carlos, I don't see any inherent advantage to swapping
storage or melding them, but it's a nice idea, if it actually worked well.

Someday, when I test it out, I might write a tutorial so others can too.
--
Posted as always to add value to the discussion so that all may benefit.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:51:18 -0700, AJL wrote:

>> Google Maps is more handy within those regions for finding
>> restaurants, libraries, post offices, and other POIs.
>
> Including real time speed traps as entered by your fellow travelers.

On that topic, it always amazes me how _fantastic_ Google Maps is!
o Even I use Google Maps (sans logging in) when I need accuracy & traffic.

I have used GPS in automobiles since the day we used to put antennas on our
roof, plugged into a laptop RS232 port, where the laptop itself was plugged
into an inverter plugged into the cigarette lighter socket.

Then I moved from laptops running GPS to standalone Garmin & then nuvi
units, where they were the way to go in those days of old.

Then, wham!
o Google Maps killed Garmin.

How did they do it?
o I don't know how.

I mean, Garmin had the consumer GPS market almost completely locked up...
o Yet Google waltzed in and handily took it away from them.

Like taking candy from a baby.

Even Apple, with all its billions, can't catch up to Google mapping prowess
o How the hell did Google beat them all?

I'm amazed, to this day, as I still have at least a half dozen Garmin units
lying about, unused, and probably never will be used.

I don't like Google taking our privacy away...
o But I admire how Google took over navigation & how it holds sway even now
--
Even I use Google Maps (sans logging in) when I need accuracy & traffic.

[Arlen Holder]

Vanguard is correct,

But, just as an extra technical detail, it requires a Google Account setup:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/WbB1JqLP/offline03.jpg>

Note the distinction between these two _different_ things, AFAICT:
1. A Google Account is required to change offline map settings
2. A Google _login_ is required to save an offline map

Note that those are two different things:
a. An account, AFAICT, is something set up inside of the Android OS
b. A login is done manually (where the account can be managed elsewhere)

See also:

o <https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg> Google Offline Maps GUI
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg> Requires Google login

o <https://i.postimg.cc/WbB1JqLP/offline03.jpg> Requires Google Account
--
Every thread & every post to this Usenet ng should strive to add value.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 19:39:59 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

> I remember looking at Waze a long time ago. Not so much for the speed
> trap or traffic interruption data, but for the non-main (alternative)
> routing feature. A lot of residents complained about Waze rerouting its
> users from the main roads into the residential neighborhoods.

To Vanguard's point,

That happened in nearby towns in the Silicon Valley.
o Residents complained about cross traffic on residential side roads.

Waze told the town, according to the local news, that as long as it's a
public road, they would continue to route as they wish, which was a legally
defensible standpoint which I agree with.

What the town did, as I recall, was change the roads by adding speedbumps,
and one-way signs, and even resorting to blocking the entrance ramps when
people tried to get back onto the highway, all of which were legally sound.

Unfortunately, they had to block the ramps for everyone, even local
residents, so it wasn't without its own pain.

But Waze's point of view I agree with, which is that if it's a legally
public road, then they can route anyone they want along that road, whether
the residents like that fact or not.

Google respects private roads, by the way, as they don't go down them with
their cameras, and they will stop routing along them if you ask them to,
with the exception that they route onto a private road if the destination
is from that private road, which is a loophole I can't get them to stop.

[The Real Bev]

On 01/03/2021 12:12 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 22:52:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>

...

>>> As I mentioned, there is the option to meld internal and external
>>> storage into one volume which will make internal storage look larger by
>>> adding in the external storage, but there are gotchas doing that.
>>
>> Yep. I don't like those gotchas :-(
>
> Like Vanguard & Carlos, I don't see any inherent advantage to swapping
> storage or melding them, but it's a nice idea, if it actually worked well.
>
> Someday, when I test it out, I might write a tutorial so others can too.

I thought it would just be like having LOTS of internal memory, but it
wasn't. It was better than having separate internal and external
memory, but not good enough. If I'd had it to do over, I wouldn't have
done it. Apparently a lot of people felt that way, so they dropped it
in the next major update.

--
Cheers, Bev
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

[sms]

Agreed. I think the "melding" of memory might have been a good idea when
some Android phones had only 4GB-16GB of internal memory, but now, with
even lower end phones having at least 32GB, it's a negative. It's better
to be able to store large videos, photos, maps, music, audiobooks, etc.,
on a MicroSD card that can be read and written using a computer.
Transferring large quantities of data via USB or Wi-Fi is slow.

[The Real Bev]

One bad thing about having an SD card and then switching to a Pixel2
without one: it creates an 'emulated' series of subdirectories which
are a nuisance to deal with. If I'd been smart I would have taken the
card out of the Moto before I let the Pixel suck in its entire system
(which it did admirably -- I was afraid I'd have to reconfigure
everything, but I didn't).

ES File Explorer (apparently considered evil by the play store now)
finds stuff pretty well, but if I'm looking for something without
knowing the filename (a common occurrence -- with my computer I just
look at the files sorted chronologically in the subdirectory that I KNOW
contains what I want) is a nuisance.

--
Cheers, Bev
All the toilets were stolen out of the police station.
The police have nothing to go on.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 03/01/2021 21.12, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Plus, originally, it would just complain after 29 days
> o But later, it wiped out the offline maps after those 29 days expired

One year.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:26:20 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> One bad thing about having an SD card and then switching to a Pixel2
> without one: it creates an 'emulated' series of subdirectories which
> are a nuisance to deal with. If I'd been smart I would have taken the
> card out of the Moto before I let the Pixel suck in its entire system
> (which it did admirably -- I was afraid I'd have to reconfigure
> everything, but I didn't).

Hi The Real Bev,

You've been on Usenet for a while so you're credible.

This is good to know, as I've had "el cheapo" $200 Google Moto G and $350
Nexus 5 phones in the past, which, in a word, suck compared to my previous
$130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (32GB + expansion slot) and to my current $100 Moto G7
(64GB + expansion slot).

I have come to accept that most phones don't have user removable batteries
anymore, but I hope to hold on to the precious sdcard slot and aux port for
as long as I can (luckily, almost all Android phones have both where
there's almost no Android phone without the headphone jack, as you're
aware).

If I ever port to a no-external memory phone, I'll heed your advice.

> ES File Explorer (apparently considered evil by the play store now)
> finds stuff pretty well, but if I'm looking for something without
> knowing the filename (a common occurrence -- with my computer I just
> look at the files sorted chronologically in the subdirectory that I KNOW
> contains what I want) is a nuisance.

I dropped "ES File Explorer" but when it was in its heyday, I used it as
much as anyone did (although I had made the mistake of accepting the "clean
APK's" option, not knowing it's a dumb delete of every APK on the device!
o Lesson learned.

There are so many good file managers nowadays that I don't see any reason
to keep ES File Explorer, but I forget why or what made them go over to th
dark side (it's been so long that I deleted it on previous phones).

Googling, I found this as the first hit:
o ES File Explorer Removed From Google Play Store
<https://troypoint.com/es-file-explorer-removed-from-google-play-store/>
"Reports have indicated the company who owns ES File Explorer, DO Global,
was clicking ads¢ in user¢s apps without permission."

Second hit:
o ES File Explorer Mysteriously Disappeared from Play Store
<https://www.geekdashboard.com/es-file-explorer-mysteriously-disappeared-from-play-store/>
"once a Chinese company took over the app, it became a battlefield of
advertisements. Moreover, they also added unwanted features like a
special charging screen. Slowly, it started losing its charm. Still
many conventionalists kept on using the applications."

This is the third hit, which is the Wikipedia on the app:
o <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_File_Explorer>
"It was claimed the company who owns ES File Explorer, DO Global, was
committing 'click fraud' by clicking ads in users' apps in the
background without permission."
"It is unclear if or when ES File Explorer will return to the Google Play
Store. The app is still available on the Amazon Appstore."

Seems to me I'd want you to find a replacement to your ES File Explorer,
unless yours is old enough to be prior to the "DO Global" takeover.

In looking for it on Google Play, watch out for this "look alike" app:
o ES File Manager, File Explorer, by GreenSoft Infotech
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.File.Manager.Filemanager>
Dunno anything about it, but clearly they're capitalizing on the name.

Here's a screenshot of the "file explorers" I have in my files folder:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rmvDBN8Q/files01.jpg>

There are so many "file explorers" out there, that I wonder what's in "ES
File Explorer" nowadays that isn't already in one of those, e.g.,

Maybe it's time to open up a thread on what's a "good" file explorer?
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others get good apps!

[sms]

On 1/4/2021 1:14 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 03/01/2021 21.12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> Plus, originally, it would just complain after 29 days
>> o But later, it wiped out the offline maps after those 29 days expired
>
> One year.

Actually if you were doing offline mapping, to reduce data usage, it
made sense to use a program like CoPilot or OSMAnd
<https://osmand.net/>. Those maps don't expire.

What you lose is real-time traffic conditions. I used to use the offline
mapping programs when traveling outside the U.S. but with data prices
coming down so much it's no longer really necessary.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 22:14:43 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 03/01/2021 21.12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> Plus, originally, it would just complain after 29 days
>> o But later, it wiped out the offline maps after those 29 days expired
>
> One year.

Hi Carlos,
Thanks for that datum, as I never understood why the deletion period was so
short in the days that we didn't need to log into a Google Account just to
download a map tile that we could easily see without logging into a Google
Account.

A year seems a lot more reasonable than a month, for sure.

I won't be using this Google offline maps feature, but I do agree with
anyone who claims Google's address lookup is the best on earth.
o My test of freeware Android offline GPS navigation applications
<https://androidforums.com/threads/my-test-of-freeware-android-offline-gps-navigation-applications.806872/>

In the olden days, we used to use "AddressToGPS" freeware to scrape the
Google Address database, but that stopped working for me a while ago.
1. I'd use AddressToGps to get the coordinates, and then
2. I'd punch those coordinates into any offline map program

That works great, by the way, but again, Google "routing" is, by far, the
best, particularly because it takes traffic into account.
o Is there a non Google freeware traffic app
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android//Ve_2cgliiGk>

There are easy workarounds to AddressToGps though, which I outlined in
prior threads, such as using a web browser to get the GPS coordinates out
of Google Maps, but if you're gonna go to that much trouble, then you may
as well just route with traffic inside the web browser (which works sans a
login, as far as I can recall).
o Is there a non Google freeware traffic app
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Ve_2cgliiGk/>

The end result is that Google Offline Maps are "nice" to have
but there are plenty of workarounds such that the onus of a login is too
much for me to bother with it (for the little gain it provides).

Thanks for the datum that Google no longer unilaterally wipes out your
downloaded offline maps after only a month's time.

See also:
o Does anyone know how or if Google associates your identity with your Google Map navigation activities?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/um2niVH0oYU>

o What decent free offline no-login privacy-enabled road map apps exist for Android users to enjoy?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/YadPNimUcu8>
--

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 21:21:53 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:26:20 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> One bad thing about having an SD card and then switching to a Pixel2
>> without one: it creates an 'emulated' series of subdirectories which
>> are a nuisance to deal with.

BTW, when researching the sdcard file organization, I ran into this thread:
o Do you keep the mess in the external sdcard or do you change it? (to what?)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/gmI-kNbakmA/m/u9CyGZ6dAwAJ>

> There are so many "file explorers" out there, that I wonder what's in "ES
> File Explorer" nowadays that isn't already in one of those, e.g.,
>
> Maybe it's time to open up a thread on what's a "good" file explorer?

As always, to help others learn and to learn more myself...
o I opened a separate thread on the file explorers that people love & why.

Please see:
o Survey of free ad free Android file explorer apps you use & why you like them (perhaps to replace ES File Explorer evilware)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/SSOowSdK-8g>
--
Posted to always add value to each Usenet thread by being helpful.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 15:56:09 -0800, sms wrote:

> Actually if you were doing offline mapping, to reduce data usage, it
> made sense to use a program like CoPilot or OSMAnd
> <https://osmand.net/>. Those maps don't expire.
>
> What you lose is real-time traffic conditions. I used to use the offline
> mapping programs when traveling outside the U.S. but with data prices
> coming down so much it's no longer really necessary.

I've written tons of reviews of offline map apps over the years, e.g.,

o What decent free offline no-login privacy-enabled road map apps exist for Android users to enjoy?

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/YadPNimUcu8/m/Br7uODraCgAJ>

o My quick review of offline Android freeware mapping & routing applications
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/AoE0Ox2We58/m/9uPCHaPaCgAJ>

o My test of freeware Android offline GPS navigation applications

<https://androidforums.com/threads/my-test-of-freeware-android-offline-gps-navigation-applications.806872/> '
etc.

IMHO, three things Google does best in terms of routing:
a. Their address lookup is fantastic
b. Their routing takes into account traffic
c. They give the best verbal directions (by far)

Nonetheless, the only critical thing is the address lookup
o And secondarily, in high-traffic situations, the second thing

Luckily, you can get _both_ using a web browser pointed to Google Maps
o Which gives you address-to-GPS and traffic

Hence, what I tend to do is use a web browser and put that data
into an offline map app (such as Mapsource navigator, or OSMAnd~).

That preserves privacy while enabling offline routing with traffic
--
Those who don't try to bullshit us will find me quite amicable to them.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 01:51:56 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> In the olden days, we used to use "AddressToGPS" freeware to scrape the
> Google Address database, but that stopped working for me a while ago.
> 1. I'd use AddressToGps to get the coordinates, and then
> 2. I'd punch those coordinates into any offline map program

I just checked my APKs where this is the addresstogps I used to use:
o AddressToGps <me.danielbarnett.addresstogps> version 1.32 (14)
<https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/me.danielbarnett.addresstogps>

It worked beautifully in the olden days while traveling on the road:
a. You only needed data to anonymously scrape the Google db
b. Then you punched in the coordinates into an offline map program

Notice that you only needed the Internet for, oh, about 30 seconds.
o And you preserved your privacy with your lookup & subsequent routing

If you needed traffic, you could anonymously use a web browser
o Pointed to Google Maps with the traffic option turned on

Worked like a charm.
--
Those who don't try to bullshit me find me quite friendly & helpful.

[The Real Bev]

On 01/04/2021 01:21 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:26:20 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> One bad thing about having an SD card and then switching to a Pixel2
>> without one: it creates an 'emulated' series of subdirectories which
>> are a nuisance to deal with. If I'd been smart I would have taken the
>> card out of the Moto before I let the Pixel suck in its entire system
>> (which it did admirably -- I was afraid I'd have to reconfigure
>> everything, but I didn't).
>
> Hi The Real Bev,
>
> You've been on Usenet for a while so you're credible.
>
> This is good to know, as I've had "el cheapo" $200 Google Moto G and $350
> Nexus 5 phones in the past, which, in a word, suck compared to my previous
> $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus (32GB + expansion slot) and to my current $100 Moto G7
> (64GB + expansion slot).
>
> I have come to accept that most phones don't have user removable batteries
> anymore, but I hope to hold on to the precious sdcard slot and aux port for
> as long as I can (luckily, almost all Android phones have both where
> there's almost no Android phone without the headphone jack, as you're
> aware).
>
> If I ever port to a no-external memory phone, I'll heed your advice.

I didn't realize the Pixel2 had no headphone jack; I probably would
have bought it anyway, though, and I bought an adapter -- which I
haven't used yet. The Pixel phone sound is fine, but music from the
speakers is ludicrous; you'd think they would have put better speakers
in, but they didn't. It's fine from the earphones, though.

>> ES File Explorer (apparently considered evil by the play store now)
>> finds stuff pretty well, but if I'm looking for something without
>> knowing the filename (a common occurrence -- with my computer I just
>> look at the files sorted chronologically in the subdirectory that I KNOW
>> contains what I want) is a nuisance.
>
> I dropped "ES File Explorer" but when it was in its heyday, I used it as
> much as anyone did (although I had made the mistake of accepting the "clean
> APK's" option, not knowing it's a dumb delete of every APK on the device!
> o Lesson learned.

It shows little banner ads at the bottom every once in a while, but I'm
really good at ignoring stuff like that.

> There are so many good file managers nowadays that I don't see any reason
> to keep ES File Explorer, but I forget why or what made them go over to th
> dark side (it's been so long that I deleted it on previous phones).

I'm used to the way it works and I do what I need to do (mostly copy
photos to my computer) by habit rather than conscious thought. Some of
us are really lazy.

> Googling, I found this as the first hit:
> o ES File Explorer Removed From Google Play Store
> <https://troypoint.com/es-file-explorer-removed-from-google-play-store/>
> "Reports have indicated the company who owns ES File Explorer, DO Global,
> was clicking ads¢ in user¢s apps without permission."

Why should I care? Not my problem. Anybody who spends
time/money/effort trying to sell me something is wasting their
resources. Same if they're just spying on me.

> Second hit:
> o ES File Explorer Mysteriously Disappeared from Play Store
> <https://www.geekdashboard.com/es-file-explorer-mysteriously-disappeared-from-play-store/>
> "once a Chinese company took over the app, it became a battlefield of
> advertisements. Moreover, they also added unwanted features like a
> special charging screen. Slowly, it started losing its charm. Still
> many conventionalists kept on using the applications."

I guess that would be me.

> This is the third hit, which is the Wikipedia on the app:
> o <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_File_Explorer>
> "It was claimed the company who owns ES File Explorer, DO Global, was
> committing 'click fraud' by clicking ads in users' apps in the
> background without permission."
> "It is unclear if or when ES File Explorer will return to the Google Play
> Store. The app is still available on the Amazon Appstore."
>
> Seems to me I'd want you to find a replacement to your ES File Explorer,
> unless yours is old enough to be prior to the "DO Global" takeover.

I just updated. If those are the only problems, big deal.

> In looking for it on Google Play, watch out for this "look alike" app:
> o ES File Manager, File Explorer, by GreenSoft Infotech
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.File.Manager.Filemanager>
> Dunno anything about it, but clearly they're capitalizing on the name.
>
> Here's a screenshot of the "file explorers" I have in my files folder:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/rmvDBN8Q/files01.jpg>
>
> There are so many "file explorers" out there, that I wonder what's in "ES
> File Explorer" nowadays that isn't already in one of those, e.g.,

The fact that I already know how to use it. Did I mention something
about laziness?

> Maybe it's time to open up a thread on what's a "good" file explorer?

--

Cheers, Bev
*Are you *sure* there's a hyphen in "anal-retentive?"*

[The Real Bev]

On 01/04/2021 03:56 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/4/2021 1:14 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 03/01/2021 21.12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> Plus, originally, it would just complain after 29 days
>>> o But later, it wiped out the offline maps after those 29 days expired
>>
>> One year.

Google maps is just easiest to use. The bastards have us by the short
hairs!

> Actually if you were doing offline mapping, to reduce data usage, it
> made sense to use a program like CoPilot or OSMAnd
> <https://osmand.net/>. Those maps don't expire.

I liked OSMand, but you can watch it eating the battery. I also liked
CoPilot, but they changed the user interface around and I just didn't
feel like learning something new AND again feeding in the addresses that
I had saved previously.

> What you lose is real-time traffic conditions. I used to use the offline
> mapping programs when traveling outside the U.S. but with data prices
> coming down so much it's no longer really necessary.

When I have wireless access (at home or McD etc.) I also like the
Caltrans Quick Map, IE511 and Sigalert for local traffic stuff.

--
Cheers, Bev
"On the other hand, I live in California so I'd be willing to
squeeze schoolchildren to death if I thought some oil would
come out." -- Scott Adams

[Carlos E.R.]

On 05/01/2021 06.55, The Real Bev wrote:
>> Googling, I found this as the first hit:
>> o ES File Explorer Removed From Google Play Store
>> <https://troypoint.com/es-file-explorer-removed-from-google-play-store/>
>>    "Reports have indicated the company who owns ES File Explorer, DO
>> Global,
>>     was clicking ads¢ in user¢s apps without permission."
>
> Why should I care?  Not my problem.  Anybody who spends
> time/money/effort trying to sell me something is wasting their
> resources.  Same if they're just spying on me.

It is a fraud. Not of your money, rather Google's money.
Maybe uses your bandwidth, cpu, and battery.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 21:55:48 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> I didn't realize the Pixel2 had no headphone jack;

Hi The Real Bev,

I got burned like that when I bought the Moto G and the Nexus 4, both of
which sucked due to the lack of the sd card (the Nexus 4 was so bad that
the gift recipient had me exchange it with T-Mobile for a Nexus 5, which
she hated, and which I inherited years later when she want to an iPhone).

Three crappy Apple hardware ploys can burn Android users when buying from a
company that follows Apple's "courageous" (& admittedly hugely successful
at profit margins) MARKETING moves.
1. Lack of a removable battery (which, unfortunately, is most phones now)
2. Lack of a headphone jack (luckily, almost zero Android phones do this)
3. Lack of an external sdcard (luckily, almost 0 Android phones do this)

Basically, Apple removed all this basic functionality so that the user has
to buy it back, often from Apple, which is the profit motive.

I don't blame Apple for being greedy; I blame its customers for being
gullible. Likewise, I don't blame Google for attempting to garner the
astoundingly huge profit margins Apple enjoys - but you just can't make
those profits off of gullible customers.

I hope you got that pixel at a good price, which is why I had bought the
$200 Moto G and the $250 Nexus 4 (which morphed to the $350 Nexus 5).

If it wasn't at a good price (for that time period), I would _never_ have
settled for the lack of the removable battery and sdcard slot.

Funnily enough, when the Nexus 4 recipient finally got an iPhone, as I
recall, it was a free iPhone 6 which at least retained the basic
functionality of a headphone jack - but - when I asked her about her
subsequent iPhone 7, she complained about the lack of that basic
functionality (as I recall, as it was years ago).

> I probably would
> have bought it anyway, though, and I bought an adapter -- which I
> haven't used yet. The Pixel phone sound is fine, but music from the
> speakers is ludicrous; you'd think they would have put better speakers
> in, but they didn't. It's fine from the earphones, though.

As I said, there are two truisms when it comes to Android OEMs following
Apple's (admittedly hugely profitable) sleazy tactic of removing basic
functionality so that the user is forced to buy it back.

1. Any Android OEM would _love_ to be able to capitalize on Apple's
"courageous" move to boldly remove basic functionality so that the
consumer is forced to buy it back. It's all about pure profit.

2. If the Android phone is inexpensive, it might be a tradeoff that makes
financial sense, since you expect loss of functionality in cheaper
devices.

Luckily almost every Android device ever made (over 99.5%) has this basic
functionality, and I don't know the percentage which have sdcard slots,
but it's so many that there's no good reason (other than if it's super
cheap) to buy a phone that lacks the sdcard functionality either.

BTW, my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus, which I loved but I gave it away to a kid who
fell in water with his, had all three of this basic functionality:
1. Headphone jack
2. sdcard slot
3. Removable battery

Even my $100 Moto G7, which replaced my Stylo has two of those things:
1. Headphone jack
2. sdcard slot

Interestingly, every phone I've owned in the past had NFC since at least my
Samsung Galaxy S3 days, _except_ this Moto G7, which doesn't have it.

Why?
o I don't know why.

The European version of the Moto G7 has NFC, for example, so it's just what
they did for MARKETING reasons in the USA. Luckily, I've had NFC for so
long I can't remember how long, and yet, I've never needed it. So, for me,
it's not a loss of functionality - but to others - it could be the same
game.

Here's the game (pioneered by Apple):
a. If there's basic functionality
b. That they can "courageously" remove
c. Then you're forced to buy it back
d. (often, from them)

That's the game, which, by the way, only the _huge_ OEMs can get away
with (since they can have models that _do_ have the functionality,
but at a higher cost, so that they can have a "good/better/best" MARKETING
strategy).

The only way I'd buy a phone that lacks basic functionality would be...
o If it's cheap

And it has to be cheaper than $100 since I can get basic functionality
(I love my Moto G7) for about $100. For example, at $10, I might consider
an Android phone that lacks a headphone jack and an sdcard slot.
--
Posted to let people know what the MARKETING strategy is.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 22:05:37 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> Google maps is just easiest to use.
> The bastards have us by the short hairs!

Hi The Real Bev,

Nobody feels the pain of Google like I do, in that I'm an old time
aficionado for GPS-based map routing (from the days where we put a
laptop in our lap while driving to now, where I've written many
navigation reviews).

But there is a way to maintain your privacy & still get three things:
1. Accurate address lookup
2. Timely traffic based routing
3. Phenomenal spoken directions

I've described how, in gory detail, elsewhere, so I simply respond to
say I agree they got us by being damn good at those three things
... but ...

There _is_ a way to still get those three things, with privacy.

>> Actually if you were doing offline mapping, to reduce data usage, it
>> made sense to use a program like CoPilot or OSMAnd
>> <https://osmand.net/>. Those maps don't expire.
>
> I liked OSMand, but you can watch it eating the battery. I also liked
> CoPilot, but they changed the user interface around and I just didn't
> feel like learning something new AND again feeding in the addresses that
> I had saved previously.

I ditched CoPilot long ago, although I used it on the laptop many years ago,
where it came with a big white dot for the dashboard which was plugged
into the PC RS232 port, as I recall.

OSMAnd~ is not as good as Google Maps, but it's not bad, as it's one of
the few offline map apps that I haven't deleted from my phone.

Given I've tested _every_ offline map app that exists (AFAIK)
o Very (very) few stay on my phone (as there are really only two that work)
<https://i.postimg.cc/CMmSsgtN/maps01.jpg>

>> What you lose is real-time traffic conditions. I used to use the offline
>> mapping programs when traveling outside the U.S. but with data prices
>> coming down so much it's no longer really necessary.
>
> When I have wireless access (at home or McD etc.) I also like the
> Caltrans Quick Map, IE511 and Sigalert for local traffic stuff.

Those are _great_ to put as shortcuts in our homescreen MAP folder!

I agree traffic is useful, where you bring up a _great_ point that you
can get traffic other ways that don't eliminate your privacy, such as
the sites you just noted (which I'll put in my phone as I'm also in
California).

I once called the KQED (I think that was the station) who did traffic
every five minutes in the Silicon Valley to ask what a "sigalert" was. :)
o <https://www.sigalert.com/Map.asp?lat=33.984259&lon=-118.223015&z=2>

Are these the URLs for Californians to put a shortcut to in the map folder?
1. SigAlert: <https://www.sigalert.com>
For example, for the SF Bay Area:
<https://www.sigalert.com/Map.asp?lat=37.40000&lon=-122.00000&z=0>

o Sigalert Traffic Reports, by Sigalert.com
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sigalert.mobile>
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sigalert-com-live-traffic-reports/id424889327>
Which I just downloaded to my homescreen MAPS folder thanks to you!

2. IE511: <https://ie511.org/traffic> (seems to be only for socal though)
o IE511, by Riverside County Transportation Commission
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.RCTC.IE511>
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ie511/id493159934>

There seems to be a Northern California equivalent, I think, over here:
<https://511.org/>
Which I saved as a shortcut to my homescreen MAPS folder thanks to you!

3. Caltrans Quick Map <http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/>
o Quickmap, by California Department of Transportation
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.caltrans.quickmap>
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/caltrans-quickmap/id1193696577>
Which I just downloaded to my homescreen MAPS folder thanks to you!

4. Google Maps (Put a web shortcut in your homescreen MAPS folder)
<https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4000000,-122.0000000,12z/data=!5m1!1e1>

Thanks The Real Bev for adding value to our overall knowledge base!
--
BTW, I "think" Google gets most of its traffic from spying on stupid people
who have location turned on, and some of it from its Waze outlets,
but where do the traffic suppliers in the sites above get their traffic from?

[sms]

On 1/4/2021 9:55 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> I didn't realize the Pixel2 had no headphone jack;  I probably would
> have bought it anyway, though, and I bought an adapter -- which I
> haven't used yet.  The Pixel phone sound is fine, but music from the
> speakers is ludicrous;  you'd think they would have put better speakers
> in, but they didn't.  It's fine from the earphones, though.

Speakers on lower-end and mid-range phones tend to not be very good. I
used to use an LG Stylo 3 Plus, it was okay but the speaker was poor and
even though I wasn't doing gaming the phone lagged due to its slow
processor in some uses, especially when Bluetooth was being used. As one
reviewer wrote: "The two things I'm not crazy about are the sound
quality of the speaker... The speaker sounds very tinny/hollow.. if you
listen to 1940's music it would sound great...anything else sounds very
bad." Ironically, the flagship LG phones reportedly have the highest
quality sound, better than Samsung and better than Apple, but of course
no manufacturer wants to hurt sales of their flagship phones by making
their budget phones too good.

Finding phones with both a headphone jack and a Micro SD card slot is
becoming more difficult. I replaced my wife's Moto X4 with a Samsung
S10E ($425) recently, and it still has both. Then my sister also wanted
an S10E and found that the price had gone up significantly because it
had been discontinued but was still in high demand. But she paid the
price ($525) from her carrier to get it.

My sister said she wasn't picky then when I began asking her what
features she wanted it became clear that she was actually quite picky
because she expected the new phone to have all the features of her old
Samsung Galaxy S7, and more. And she wanted a smallish phone while most
Android flagships are largeish.

Her requirements:
● Works on Verizon (she lives in rural North Carolina and Verizon is
the only carrier with adequate coverage).
● Fast charging
● Fingerprint Reader
● Micro SD card slot
● Headphone jack
● Stereo speakers
● NFC
● Good cameras
● "Smallish"

When I explained what the following were, she wanted those too, though
none of them were absolute requirements:
● Wireless charging
● IP68
● Magnetic Secure Technology

What she never used was:
● FM Radio (though the S10E does have it)

A lot of lower-end phones leave off stuff like NFC, stereo speakers, and
IP68 (or even IP67). Motorola is maddening with regards to NFC, they'll
often include it in budget phones sold outside the U.S. and leave it off
on versions sold in the U.S., models like the Moto G Stylus, G Power, G
Fast. and G7
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18304664/motorola-moto-g7-power-play-review-budget-affordable-android-phones>.
NFC is a feature that people care about a lot more these days due to the
pandemic, but there are other advantages to it as well, since many
credit cards give higher rewards for mobile wallet purchases than for
physical card purchases.

Of course iPhones were out of the question since other than the SE 2020
they lack a fingerprint reader, and none of them have memory card slots
or headphone jacks. Personally, for a small phone I like the iPhone 12
Mini despite these features not being present. With enough built-in
memory the need for a MicroSD card is lessened (though there are still
some advantages), and living with a dongle for analog headphones is
annoying but not a deal breaker. The lack of a fingerprint reader is a
real pain during these times with having to wear masks in stores, but
this will be over hopefully in six months. The iPhone 13 will reportedly
bring back fingerprint readers at least on some of the models
<https://tech.hindustantimes.com/mobile/news/apple-may-bring-back-touchid-fingerprint-scanner-back-in-iphone-13-but-with-a-twist-71607863096832.html>.

My sister-in-law went from a Samsung Galaxy S7 to an iPhone 8 Plus a
couple of years ago and complained incessantly over one Android feature
that is missing from all iPhones: separate volume settings for ringer
and notifications. She asked me to show her how to do this and after
some research I found, incredibly, that it was not possible, other than
doing a funky workaround of adding a ringtone that was at low-volume and
using that when she needed to be able to get notifications but didn't
want a loud ringer. She didn't believe me that it wasn't possible and
went to an Apple Store and asked at the Genius Bar, but they gave her
the same suggestion and told her that a lot of people have asked the
same question! The answers at
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7fuz5t/apple_when_can_we_have_independend_volume/>
were pretty funny. She still complains about it and I told her that she
should just go back to Android if this is so important!

I'm beginning to be okay with losing the Micro SD card on flagship
phones with lots of internal memory though having a large memory card is
convenient in some situations regardless of internal memory.

[sms]

Yeah, I used to be a fan of ES File Explorer but no more. It's not
necessary anyway. File Manager Plus is much better:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alphainventor.filemanager>
and Samsung's included "My Files" is good for Samsung phones.

[AJL]

On 1/5/2021 7:13 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 05/01/2021 06.55, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> ES File Explorer Removed From Google Play Store
>>> <https://troypoint.com/es-file-explorer-removed-from-google-play-store/>
>>> Reports have indicated the company who owns ES File Explorer, DO

>>> Global, was clicking ads in users apps without permission.

>>
>> Why should I care? Not my problem. Anybody who spends
>> time/money/effort trying to sell me something is wasting their
>> resources. Same if they're just spying on me.
>
> It is a fraud. Not of your money, rather Google's money. Maybe uses
> your bandwidth, cpu, and battery.

I always liked ES File Explorer before it was removed. Lately I've come
to like Google Files. Frying pan into fire? BTW ES File Explorer was
never removed from the Amazon App Store and is still there today.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 08:24:14 -0800, sms wrote:

> Works on Verizon (she lives in rural North Carolina and Verizon is
> the only carrier with adequate coverage).

*Steve always slews wholly unsubstantiated MARKETING bullshit.*

Does sms get paid by Verizon to shill for them?

Steve throws this MARKETING bullshit into _every_ single phone thread
o It's as if Steve is paid by Verizon by the word to shill for them.

And yet, Steve's clearly dead wrong, which his own cites showed.
o Verizon has _barely_ better coverage than T-Mobile

Steve's own cites from yesterday concluded that rather strongly.
o Despite those facts which Steve, himself, cited...

*Steve always slews wholly unsubstantiated MARKETING bullshit.*
--
What's sad is the bullshit Steve slews, all of it MARKETING crap.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 08:29:44 -0800, sms wrote:

> Yeah, I used to be a fan of ES File Explorer but no more. It's not
> necessary anyway. File Manager Plus is much better:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alphainventor.filemanager>
> and Samsung's included "My Files" is good for Samsung phones.

As always, Steve doesn't know anything about apps, at least not "good" apps
o This app he suggests "Contains Ads"

Sure, Steve probably loves apps that bombard you with their ads
o But most intelligent people I know don't.

IMHO... far better file managers exist which are...
a. Free
b. GSF free
c. Ad free
d. Google free

See far better (IMHO) free ad free file manager suggestions here:

o Survey of free ad free Android file explorer apps you use & why you like them (perhaps to replace ES File Explorer evilware)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/SSOowSdK-8g>
--

Having sms suggest a bad app is worse than him suggesting nothing.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 09:49:36 -0700, AJL wrote:

> I always liked ES File Explorer before it was removed. Lately I've come
> to like Google Files. Frying pan into fire? BTW ES File Explorer was
> never removed from the Amazon App Store and is still there today.

Almost all of us cut our teeth on ES File Explorer in the olden days.
o Then it went to hell in a handbasket

My research provided to The Real Bev yesterday showed what AJL said
o Which is that it's still available if you _really_ want it

If not, go here for free, ad free, gsf free, google free file managers:

o Survey of free ad free Android file explorer apps you use & why you like them (perhaps to replace ES File Explorer evilware)
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/SSOowSdK-8g>

That thread also contains a list of a dozen or so features to look for.
--
Posted because it's best to strive for good apps, rather than bad ones.

[The Real Bev]

Hrm. If I put it in airplane mode the battery lasts longer. Crap,
perhaps the Arcturians, Lizard People, etc. ARE here. Our friend's wife
keeps sending us convincing arguments and references to proof...

--
Cheers, Bev
"I don't need instructions, I have a hammer."
-- T.W. Wier

[The Real Bev]

On 01/05/2021 06:21 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 21:55:48 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I didn't realize the Pixel2 had no headphone jack;

...

> I hope you got that pixel at a good price, which is why I had bought the
> $200 Moto G and the $250 Nexus 4 (which morphed to the $350 Nexus 5).

Factory refurbished (it looked virgin) via ebay for $120 plus maybe $5
for the earphone adapter.

I wasn't planning on getting a new phone, but my son bought the 64GB
Pixel2 for $85 and I couldn't resist the price -- I was really impressed
with its camera, which is what I use it for most. We went out to see
the poppies, and his pix were SOOOO much better than the Moto G5's that
my mind was made up.

[Carlos E.R.]

:-)

Google removed the app from the store because they were stealing revenue
from Google, that is true.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 20:51:41 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

>> I hope you got that pixel at a good price, which is why I had bought the
>> $200 Moto G and the $250 Nexus 4 (which morphed to the $350 Nexus 5).
>
> Factory refurbished (it looked virgin) via ebay for $120 plus maybe $5
> for the earphone adapter.

Hi The Real Bev,

If you like the phone, then $120 is a great price for a decent Android
device, where it's my observation that almost all consumer electronics gets
a. better
b. faster
c. cheaper
over time.

For example, you can get a decent Android phone for about $100 nowadays
(I love my $100 Moto G7, which has 64GB + 4GB + expansion for example).

> I wasn't planning on getting a new phone, but my son bought the 64GB
> Pixel2 for $85 and I couldn't resist the price -- I was really impressed
> with its camera, which is what I use it for most. We went out to see
> the poppies, and his pix were SOOOO much better than the Moto G5's that
> my mind was made up.

It's great you love your phone, as I love mine also, but I don't care all
that much about the camera (I care about storage & software functionality).

Nonetheless, I don't disagree that the pixels seem to have good camera QOR,
where I looked up the DXOMark scores, which is the only independent outfit
I know of that tests most smartphones similarly (and which doesn't fall
sway to shilling clickbait or simply spitting out MARKETING brochures).

Here's the objectively tested comparison between the Pixel 2 & the G5:
o October 2017 Google Pixel 2 Camera score & review (99 back, 77 front)
<https://www.dxomark.com/google-pixel-2-reviewed-sets-new-record-smartphone-camera-quality/>

o January 2018 Motorola Moto G5S camera score & review (69 back)
<https://www.dxomark.com/motorola-moto-g5s-review-no-frills-mobile-imaging/>

$85 is a fantastic price for a smartphone, so I too would have bought it
even though it lacks the headphone jack, as I consider it a perfectly
logical choice to lose functionality but gain huge price advantages.

What I disagree with is what the idiotically gullible Apple customers fall
for, which is the "courageous" trick to both lose functionality & pay ever
increasingly ungodly higher prices for that lost-functionality smartphone.

The only way Apple can attain those ungodly profits is off gullible idiots.

Like you, I wasn't planning to get a new phone either, where I was
perfectly happy with my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus from Costco; but one of my
gift recipients tried to cross a river and didn't bother removing the phone
from his pocket, so I gave him mine - and suddenly I was in the market for
a new Android phone.

Luckily, Google wanted to push its Fi Service, so on Black Friday of 2019,
they sold me the $300 Moto G7 for $100 but the catch was I needed to be on
Google Fi service (at $20/month pro rated) for at least one day, so I too
should tack on a ~$5 cost like you had to for your

I have a thread on this observation, where the only consumer electronics
that goes up in price and yet doesn't get all that much better is Apple
stuff. (The reason is simple: Apple MARKETING is the best on the planet.)

It's MARKETING's job to feed its gullible customer base enough bullshit
so that the customer will fund those ungodly huge profit margins.

Me?

I bought iPads just to learn iOS (to help my family iOS owners).
o But the grandkids no longer are living with us, so nobody uses them.
--
Those iPads just sit on the shelf, collecting dust, they're that useless
compared to my $100 Android phone since they're so restricted by Apple.

[sms]

On 1/5/2021 8:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> Hrm.  If I put it in airplane mode the battery lasts longer.  Crap,
> perhaps the Arcturians, Lizard People, etc. ARE here.  Our friend's wife
> keeps sending us convincing arguments and references to proof...

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
<https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/nashville-bombing-suspect-may-have-believed-in-lizard-people-13886736>.

[The Real Bev]

Damn. The friend's wife also believes in crystals and other magical
concepts. There's apparently a whole industry out there designed to
cater to these people.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Some people say that when it rains it means that God is crying,
probably because of something that you did." --Jack Handey

[sms]

On 1/6/2021 9:33 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 01/06/2021 07:54 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 1/5/2021 8:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Hrm.  If I put it in airplane mode the battery lasts longer.  Crap,
>>> perhaps the Arcturians, Lizard People, etc. ARE here.  Our friend's wife
>>> keeps sending us convincing arguments and references to proof...
>>
>> It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
>> <https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/nashville-bombing-suspect-may-have-believed-in-lizard-people-13886736>.
>>
>
> Damn.  The friend's wife also believes in crystals and other magical
> concepts.  There's apparently a whole industry out there designed to
> cater to these people.

Wow, we could be rich if we had no ethics.

[Dieter Britz]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 14:21:35 +0000, Dieter Britz wrote:

> My phone, an about 2-3 year old Moto, has 16 Gb memory.
> SOmetoimes when installing something, it tells me there not enough
> memory left - currently I am using about 14 out of the 16. I did put in
> an SD card with 64 Gb.
>
> So, is there a way I can tell the phone to use some of that when
> installing stuff?

Thank you all for your answers. This tells me that phones are
where our Amstrad computer was in the 1980's. Our machine did
have an extra memory bank but it couldn't be accessed directly;
we had to type in a command that switched to that, and then we
had access, but only to that. I assume this had to do with the
word length, not being able to specify the extra bank.

I expect that some time in the future, when we add an SD card,
it will be treated as an extension of the basic memory.

--
Dieter Britz

[Carlos E.R.]

No.

The card is not used as extension of basic memory intentionally. There
is no hardware limitation, the "original" operating system supports it,
but the "final" operating system disables the possibility intentionally.

It is nothing at all as the ancient memory problem.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[VanguardLH]

Dieter Britz <dieterh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I expect that some time in the future, when we add an SD card,
> it will be treated as an extension of the basic memory.

Not unless YOU enable the Adoptable Storage feature in the OS, and only
if the feature is available in your version of the OS. It is not nor
should it ever be the default behavior because it is destructive to any
existing data on the external storage (both when enabled and later when
disabled). Extending the volume by attaching another storage medium
will be by your action. You've already been warned about the
disadvantages of using Adoptive Storage. Hope you remember whenever you
get around to adding an SD card to your phone.

[Bob F]

On 1/3/2021 12:12 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 22:52:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>> The camera app that came bundled on my smartphone has a setting to
>>> specify where to save new pics or vids, like to the SD card.
>>
>> Yes, that's usual.
>
> Carlos is correct, as it's normal for "most" Camera apps to allow the user
> to set where he puts his DCIM (either internal or external storage).
>
> However, the funny thing about the Google Gcam APK port is...
> o There is no setting to store DCIM on the external HDD (AFAIK)
>
> That sucks...
> o As the Google Gcam APK port is the best app out there (AFAIK)
>
> But, luckily, all good gallery apps can find pictures anywhere
> o Hence a manual move of DCIM to the external sdcard works fine
>
> But it's still a negative that the otherwise pretty good Google GCAM APK
> port is unable to put photos directly onto the external sdcard memory.
> o How to install Google Pixel Gcam APK port on almost any Android phone
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.photo.digital/c/LtY49dG01mc/>
>
>> How do you tell google maps to use external storage? Last time I looked
>> (which might have been two years ago) I did not see it.
>
> I had used Google Maps offline storage since the early beta days
> o But I gave up on Google Maps offline storage in the past few years
>
> Mainly I didn't like that they instituted a login requirement
> o Which I don't know if they still enforce

>
> Plus, originally, it would just complain after 29 days
> o But later, it wiped out the offline maps after those 29 days expired
>

> I mean, how much do maps _change_ in a month?
> o Almost nothing, right?
>
> So why did Google enforce an Android 29 day requirement (28 days on iOS)?
> o I don't know if they still enforce it though

It is now 1 year.

>
> Because, and I just checked, they _require_ a sign in to download maps.
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg> Google Offline Maps GUI
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg> Requires Google login
>
>>> As I mentioned, there is the option to meld internal and external
>>> storage into one volume which will make internal storage look larger by
>>> adding in the external storage, but there are gotchas doing that.
>>
>> Yep. I don't like those gotchas :-(
>
> Like Vanguard & Carlos, I don't see any inherent advantage to swapping
> storage or melding them, but it's a nice idea, if it actually worked well.
>
> Someday, when I test it out, I might write a tutorial so others can too.
>