Do you keep the mess in the external sdcard or do you change it? (to what?)

[Arlen Holder]

Do you keep or change the default external sdcard hierarchy?
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2211077sdcard1.jpg>
What do you _do_ with those pollution directories anyway?

If you change the external sdcard hierarchy, what do you change it to?

For example, on my sdcard0 (internal) storage, I create "data0" containing:
o apk {for installers automatically saved in apk format}
o appdata {for each program's application data, including maps}
o audio {for recordings and ripped audio and music files}
o pic {for images}
o tmp {for temporary files, including downloads}
o txt {for text files, e.g., shopping lists, todo lists, alarms}
o vid {for downloaded videos}

In the past I've created "data1" on the external sdcard (in Android 4.3)
but Android _still_ polluted that external sdcard with directories.

My MotoG and Nexus phones didn't have sdcards, but now I have the LG Stylo
3 Plus which can hold up to a 2TB external sdcard so I just put a new 64GB
card in today.

It seems that in Android 7.0, they're still polluting the sdcard1 in that a
bunch of pollution instantly showed up on that new sdcard.
o Android
o DCIM
o Download
o LOST.DIR

What do you _do_ with those pollution directories anyway?
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2211077sdcard1.jpg>

Do you keep or change the default external sdcard hierarchy?
If you change the external sdcard hierarchy, what do you change it to?

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:
> Do you keep or change the default external sdcard hierarchy?
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2211077sdcard1.jpg>
> What do you _do_ with those pollution directories anyway?
>
> If you change the external sdcard hierarchy, what do you change it to?
>
> For example, on my sdcard0 (internal) storage, I create "data0" containing:
> o apk {for installers automatically saved in apk format}
> o appdata {for each program's application data, including maps}
> o audio {for recordings and ripped audio and music files}
> o pic {for images}
> o tmp {for temporary files, including downloads}
> o txt {for text files, e.g., shopping lists, todo lists, alarms}
> o vid {for downloaded videos}

I do a similar thing, but put most of these things on the SD card,
instead of in Internal Storage.

I don't use something like 'appdata', because app data should go in
Android\data.

> In the past I've created "data1" on the external sdcard (in Android 4.3)
> but Android _still_ polluted that external sdcard with directories.
>
> My MotoG and Nexus phones didn't have sdcards, but now I have the LG Stylo
> 3 Plus which can hold up to a 2TB external sdcard so I just put a new 64GB
> card in today.
>
> It seems that in Android 7.0, they're still polluting the sdcard1 in that a
> bunch of pollution instantly showed up on that new sdcard.
> o Android
> o DCIM
> o Download
> o LOST.DIR
>
> What do you _do_ with those pollution directories anyway?
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2211077sdcard1.jpg>

There's no 'pollution'. This is standard stuff in standard folders.

There might be some *duplication* with same-name folders in Internal
Storage, but that's probably mainly because you've - temporarily - used
the device without a SD card - so this stuff had to go in IS - or/and
some of the duplication/pollution comes from older Android versions
or/and non-compliant apps or/and the default storage location being
changed.

> Do you keep or change the default external sdcard hierarchy?

No.

[Arlen Holder]

On 7 Oct 2018 14:27:41 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> I do a similar thing, but put most of these things on the SD card,
> instead of in Internal Storage.

Hi Frank,

I did the same with my Samsung Galaxy S3 as you do, but my last two phones
didn't have SD cards since they were from GOogle, but this latest phone has
the SD card which I just put in, so it's time to figure out (after a few
years sans SD cards), how to organize it.

> I don't use something like 'appdata', because app data should go in
> Android\data.

The actual name doesn't matter, where I try to stay away from existing
directories since they're so badly polluted, whereas if I create a new
hierarchy, it's only going to have stuff I put in there.

My inclination, for reasons of typing, finding, and searching, is:
o Internal data (/sdcard0/0data/{my data hierarchy}
o External data (/sccard1/1data/{my data hierarchy}

In practice, for application data, I only move "the big stuff" to the
sdcard, where, for example, I have a _lot_ of map apps & offline databases.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_android_maps_01.jpg>

> There's no 'pollution'. This is standard stuff in standard folders.

We can disagree on whether it's "pollution" or not, where the *technical*
question is what happens if I format the card to *remove* those unwanted
folders?

Anyone know?
Do they just come back?
Or do they stay away?

> There might be some *duplication* with same-name folders in Internal
> Storage, but that's probably mainly because you've - temporarily - used
> the device without a SD card - so this stuff had to go in IS - or/and
> some of the duplication/pollution comes from older Android versions
> or/and non-compliant apps or/and the default storage location being
> changed.

You bring up a point that the phone has been used without an external
sdcard for a while, so all the pollution had to go somewhere.

I prefer, for all the obvious reasons, an sdcard that only contains what I
put on it.

It's sort of like a diary or a closet or my toolbox, etc., where I prefer
to have a space for things to go where I put them and not some developer
who has absolutely no clue nor care of how things should be organized.

Mainly, the question is for people who *manage* their sdcard, as to whether
just formatting the card (or deleting the pollution) will keep it away, or
does it always come back with a vengeance (like it does on Windows)?

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:
> On 7 Oct 2018 14:27:41 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > I do a similar thing, but put most of these things on the SD card,
> > instead of in Internal Storage.
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> I did the same with my Samsung Galaxy S3 as you do, but my last two phones
> didn't have SD cards since they were from GOogle, but this latest phone has
> the SD card which I just put in, so it's time to figure out (after a few
> years sans SD cards), how to organize it.
>
> > I don't use something like 'appdata', because app data should go in
> > Android\data.
>
> The actual name doesn't matter, where I try to stay away from existing
> directories since they're so badly polluted, whereas if I create a new
> hierarchy, it's only going to have stuff I put in there.

Again, they're not 'polluted' and their location and use is standard.

That you prefer not to adhere to a standard practices is your
choice/problem and yours alone.

[Personal preferences deleted.]

> > There's no 'pollution'. This is standard stuff in standard folders.
>
> We can disagree on whether it's "pollution" or not, where the *technical*
> question is what happens if I format the card to *remove* those unwanted
> folders?
>
> Anyone know?
> Do they just come back?
> Or do they stay away?

I assume they will come back as soon as you - implicitly or explicitly
- configure apps to use the SD card.

- Android for Android\data, i.e. for example
Android\data\com.google.android.apps.maps for Google Maps.

- DCIM for the camera app

- Download for any app which 'downloads' stuff, not neccessarily from
the Internet. For example 'APK Extractor' saves the APKs it extracts
in Download.

- LOST.DIR AFAIK this is used to save lost clusters found in a
chkdsk-like operation. Mine contains two 32KB files. Can't be bothered
to check what's in them.

> > There might be some *duplication* with same-name folders in Internal
> > Storage, but that's probably mainly because you've - temporarily - used
> > the device without a SD card - so this stuff had to go in IS - or/and
> > some of the duplication/pollution comes from older Android versions
> > or/and non-compliant apps or/and the default storage location being
> > changed.
>
> You bring up a point that the phone has been used without an external
> sdcard for a while, so all the pollution had to go somewhere.
>
> I prefer, for all the obvious reasons, an sdcard that only contains what I
> put on it.

It does, but also the things you *implicitly* put on there.

> It's sort of like a diary or a closet or my toolbox, etc., where I prefer
> to have a space for things to go where I put them and not some developer
> who has absolutely no clue nor care of how things should be organized.

It's actually about the developers complying with the standards which
Google set for what should go where. It's exactly the opposite what you
say, it's *organized* the way it *should be*.

I'm afraid that Google, the developers and most people don't give a
toss about how you 'think', things *should* be 'organized'.

> Mainly, the question is for people who *manage* their sdcard, as to whether
> just formatting the card (or deleting the pollution) will keep it away, or
> does it always come back with a vengeance (like it does on Windows)?

I manage my SD-card and probably many others do as well, but we don't
care about imaginary/non-existant 'pollution'.

[Arlen Holder]

On 8 Oct 2018 14:49:50 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Again, they're not 'polluted' and their location and use is standard.

I understand your distinction that the messy disorganized garbage is normal
- and you, we can hope, fully understand my point that I don't want that
mess on my external sdcard since I didn't put it there and it's not the
hierarchy I want to use - so let's move on to technical issues, shall we?

> That you prefer not to adhere to a standard practices is your
> choice/problem and yours alone.

Only a fool takes all the defaults, Frank.

My philosophy on iOS, Window, Linux and Android is I manage my system.
That means I decide where my files go on my own external sdcard, Frank.

> I assume they will come back as soon as you - implicitly or explicitly
> - configure apps to use the SD card.

On Android 4.3, as I recall, I formatted the external sdcard and they did
NOT come back (save for the lost clusters directory), but I don't know yet
how Nougat Android 7.0 works in this regard.

> - Android for Android\data, i.e. for example
> Android\data\com.google.android.apps.maps for Google Maps.

This is good to know, where I can't imagine why Google Maps, or any app,
would store data on the external sd card until and unless I told it to.

If the app is 'well behaved', it should simply ask "where" to put its data,
which would be, in my case:
/sdcard1/1data/maps/googlemaps/.

> - DCIM for the camera app

If the app is 'well behaved', it should simply ask "where" to put its data,
which would be, in my case:
/sdcard1/1data/pic/simplecamera/.

> - Download for any app which 'downloads' stuff, not neccessarily from
> the Internet. For example 'APK Extractor' saves the APKs it extracts
> in Download.

If the app is 'well behaved', it should simply ask "where" to put its data,
which would be, in my case:
/sdcard1/1data/apk/mobibackup/.

>
> - LOST.DIR AFAIK this is used to save lost clusters found in a
> chkdsk-like operation. Mine contains two 32KB files. Can't be bothered
> to check what's in them.

As I recall, this is the one hieararchy that kept returning after I
formatted my external sd card when I was on Android 4.3.

> It does, but also the things you *implicitly* put on there.

This isn't my first rodeo trying to organize a computer file system.
There are generally three approaches:
1. Take all the defaults (which only fools follow)
2. Wrest control of the file system (which requires expertise)
3. Maintain compatibility (which sits alongside the polluted file system)

The _simplest_ solution that maintains a modicum of organization is to
maintain a separate hierarchy, alongside the pollution, of something like
/sdcard1/1data/{my data hierarchy}

>> It's sort of like a diary or a closet or my toolbox, etc., where I prefer
>> to have a space for things to go where I put them and not some developer
>> who has absolutely no clue nor care of how things should be organized.
>
> It's actually about the developers complying with the standards which
> Google set for what should go where. It's exactly the opposite what you
> say, it's *organized* the way it *should be*.

It's a royal mess when they put "Screenshots" in "Pictures" and pictures in
"DCIM", for example.

But I'm not here to argue childish things that you or I don't control.

I am only here to ask questions so that I can control organization of my
own sdcard's file system.

You seem to consider the royal mess just fine; while I don't.
We're different that way, Frank.
Just accept that I wrest control when I can.

> I'm afraid that Google, the developers and most people don't give a
> toss about how you 'think', things *should* be 'organized'.

If that were true, then the best apps wouldn't have an option to save files
in the explicit path that you want those files saved to.

Also, the myriad of "automatic file redirectors" would not need to exist.

Frank - you have to realize you're a basic user of Android who has no
concept of advanced use of Android when it comes to organizing the file
system the way you want it organized on yoru own personal sd card.

Face it. You're a very basic user based on your stated mindset.
I'm not.

You'll never graduate above being a basic user if you maintain your rigid
mindset that all the defaults are best for you. You just won't grow
mentally until you break free of your rigid mindset. You can't.

>
>> Mainly, the question is for people who *manage* their sdcard, as to whether
>> just formatting the card (or deleting the pollution) will keep it away, or
>> does it always come back with a vengeance (like it does on Windows)?
>
> I manage my SD-card and probably many others do as well, but we don't
> care about imaginary/non-existant 'pollution'.

See above where you'll never grow in knowledge based on your rigid mindset
of always taking the defaults on everything you do on Android.

Moving forward, I've decided to format the sdcard and wipe out the
pollution and to see if I can maintain a pollution-free external sdcard
like I was able to do with Android 4.3 a few years ago.

Since nobody who answered knows anything more than I do, I'll let you folks
know how it works out. That way every thread improves our tribal knowledge.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 22:18:56 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Since nobody who answered knows anything more than I do, I'll let you folks
> know how it works out. That way every thread improves our tribal knowledge.

Since nobody who answered knows the answer to my basic questions, I decided
to find out for myself.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9377155format01.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1928584format02.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3265291format03.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6228378format04.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2834406format05.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1381362format06.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9319673format07.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7183407format08.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1839286format09.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4519753format10.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2899121format11.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6453902format12.jpg>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6152180format13.jpg>

1. Settings > 3dot > Tab view > General > Phone management > Storage
2. Portable Storage > SD card > (shows the polluted hierarchy)
3. 3dot > Storage settings > Format

ERROR!
"Cannot erase SD card in USB connection mode. Disconnect and try again."
I disconnected the USB cable from the desktop computer (leaving it on the
phone as a test of whether it was the connection or the computer).

3. 3dot > Storage settings > Format > Use as portable storage > Format
"Use as portable storage"
"The SD card is ready to be used as portable storage"
"You can use it to move files between devices"
"SD card is mounted. 59.61 GB are available"

Repeat steps 1 & 2 above.
Hmmmmm... that's unfortunate.
Time to do some deeper research into formatting of external sd cards.
(Or, to ask someone who knows more than I do, for advice.)

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:
> On 8 Oct 2018 14:49:50 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > Again, they're not 'polluted' and their location and use is standard.
>
> I understand your distinction that the messy disorganized garbage is normal
> - and you, we can hope, fully understand my point that I don't want that
> mess on my external sdcard since I didn't put it there and it's not the
> hierarchy I want to use - so let's move on to technical issues, shall we?

Nope, 'we' won't! If you want your square wheels instead of the
standard round ones, then by all means go ahead, but don't expect
anybody to follow your (non-)lead.

Things are organized the way they are for a reason. I gave those
reasons, which you weren't even aware of, so calling something "messy
disorganized garbage", while you don't even know how it's organized and
why it's organized that way, is plain stupid.

> > That you prefer not to adhere to a standard practices is your
> > choice/problem and yours alone.
>
> Only a fool takes all the defaults, Frank.

Only a fool breaks things he doesn't even understand.

And no, I do *not* "take all the defaults". Do you ever stop
misrespresenting - and lying about - people's positions!?

> My philosophy on iOS, Window, Linux and Android is I manage my system.
> That means I decide where my files go on my own external sdcard, Frank.

[...]

> > - Android for Android\data, i.e. for example
> > Android\data\com.google.android.apps.maps for Google Maps.
>
> This is good to know, where I can't imagine why Google Maps, or any app,
> would store data on the external sd card until and unless I told it to.

Duh! You do/did/will. It's an app setting. Figure *that*!

> If the app is 'well behaved', it should simply ask "where" to put its data,
> which would be, in my case:
> /sdcard1/1data/maps/googlemaps/.

Complain to Google. Don't whine here about another of your
non-problems/square-wheels.

[Two more broken records deleted. Next time try a CD.]

[...]

> Frank - you have to realize you're a basic user of Android who has no
> concept of advanced use of Android when it comes to organizing the file
> system the way you want it organized on yoru own personal sd card.
>
> Face it. You're a very basic user based on your stated mindset.
> I'm not.

<barf!> Spoken by the twat which doesn't even know how it's organized
and why it's organized that way.

Earth to 'Arlen': I'm anything *but* "a basic user". The difference
between us is that I'm not some brainless Don Quichote.

> You'll never graduate above being a basic user if you maintain your rigid
> mindset that all the defaults are best for you. You just won't grow
> mentally until you break free of your rigid mindset. You can't.

Well, at least *my* picture isn't next to the 'Dunning-Kruger effect'
entry in the encyclopedia.

[More of the usual pathetic, ignorant, clueless, stupid, obnoxious,
pompous, chest-thumping, delusional, foot-stamping twattery deleted.]

['Arlen's quest for yet another windmill to fight.]

QED.

HTH. HAND. EOD. NK.

[Arlen Holder]

On 9 Oct 2018 16:12:32 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> [More of the usual pathetic, ignorant, clueless, stupid, obnoxious,
> pompous, chest-thumping, delusional, foot-stamping twattery deleted.]

Classic fifth-grade drivel from Frank Slootweg.

> Nope, 'we' won't! If you want your square wheels instead of the
> standard round ones, then by all means go ahead, but don't expect
> anybody to follow your (non-)lead.

As you noted Frank Slootweg, I'm one who leads the way where others follow.
that's why I've written thousand of tutorials over the years to help all.

For example, I interface Android, iOS, Windows, & Linux better than anyone
here has ever shown they _can_ do - and then I tell them how to do it.

Many "said" it was obvious, but not a _single_ person could tell us what
step I accidentally had left out in making the _entire_ visible file system
of iOS writeable. Not a single person.

Hence, they are all far (far) behind me in technical acumen on the topics
that I know well.

In those topics that I know well, Frank, I _lead_ the way.
In those topics, you, Frank, choose to follow or be left behind.

NOTE: There _must_ be topics _you_ know well, Frank. Right?
Why don't you lead the way in _those_ topics, instead of playing games.

It's clear I lead the way in computer organization on all the platforms,
whether they be iOS, Android, or Windows (not Linux though).

You might be able to lead the way on SMB access, for example, where we
_still_ need someone intelligent (perhaps you, Frank?) to show us how to
add an SMB client/server on Android sans root, that interfaces beautifully
with the SMB client/server setup on iOS, Linux, and Windows.

If you simply say that's "impossible", then you're not a leader of the way.
If you led the way, for SMB, Frank ... I'd follow you since you know more.