Open source Android question

[T]

Hi All,

My wife has her eye on this

https://www.samsung.com/us/tablets/galaxy-tab-s9-fe/buy/

I talked to the chat line. I asked if the
Android was the open source version of the Google
version. He said they were the same. Am I missing
something?

I also asked if the preinstalled Google apps could be
remove or just disabled. He said just disabled.
(Makes me wonder if there is any background spying
that is hidden away preinstalled as well.)

My wife is after Google Free (she hates being spied on).

Is there a google free android out there?

Many thanks,
-T

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 29.10.23 um 11:12 schrieb T:

Yes. But not on Samsung hardware.

Buy your wife an iPad.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

[John Dallman]

In article <uhlb73$3qm9e$1...@dont-email.me>, T...@invalid.invalid (T) wrote:

> I talked to the chat line. I asked if the
> Android was the open source version of the Google
> version. He said they were the same. Am I missing
> something?

This is mildly complicated. Google develops the core operating system in
private. When they are ready to ship a new release or an update, they
make the new version of the core operating system available through the
"Android Open Source Project" (AOSP). That is the basic operating system,
but is not exactly what commercial devices have.

Hardware and device drivers for Android devices are not standardised, not
even a little bit, and the drivers are almost all closed-source. Android
for a particular device needs device drivers to operate the hardware, so
Android images are created by the device and/or System-on-Chip
manufacturer.

Many Android applications also depend on Google Play Services, a
closed-source software package produced by Google. This allows them to
access the Play Store for apps, and provides a lot of other services. In
practice, any device that is branded "Android" will have Google Play
Services. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Services> That
certainly includes Samsung tablets.

> I also asked if the preinstalled Google apps could be
> remove or just disabled. He said just disabled.
> (Makes me wonder if there is any background spying
> that is hidden away preinstalled as well.)

The pre-installed apps are stored in storage that's read-only while the
OS is running. You can disable them, but you can't remove them without
removing the OS and installing a different one.

> My wife is after Google Free (she hates being spied on).
>
> Is there a google free android out there?

Not that is called "Android". If you want an Android-like device without
the Google stuff, you're looking at customised Android distributions.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_custom_Android_distributions>

There are quite a few of these, but they have a common problem: they
don't have support for many phones/tablets. Linux on PCs has lots of
open-source device drivers available. Android hardware manufacturers keep
their device drivers closed, so supporting their hardware requires
writing new drivers, and this often requires reverse engineering.

The best-supported open-source customised Android for the
English-speaking world is LineageOS, <https://www.lineageos.org/>, which
has about a million users, as compared to over a billion for ordinary
Android. The devices it has support for rarely include the latest models:
here's the list of supported Samsungs:
<https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#samsung>.

There is also Amazon Fire OS <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS>,
which only supports Amazon's tablets. It doesn't have Google, but has
roughly equivalent Amazon monitoring. I find Google less annoying.

John

[T]

Who?

>
> Buy your wife an iPad.

She looked at one, but found it a bit too weird
to operate.

[T]

Thank you!

There would not be a Linux tablet out there yet?

[John Dallman]

In article <uhlep4$3rdbf$3...@dont-email.me>, T...@invalid.invalid (T) wrote:

> Thank you!
>
> There would not be a Linux tablet out there yet?

There are some, but before you buy one, you should try to get your
requirements clear. The Android ecosystem means there are apps for most
needs, but Linux tablets don't have nearly so much software available.

<https://itsfoss.com/linux-tablets/>

<https://itslinuxfoss.com/best-linux-tablets/>

John

[Frank Slootweg]

T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 10/29/23 03:35, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> > Am 29.10.23 um 11:12 schrieb T:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> My wife has her eye on this
> >>
> >> https://www.samsung.com/us/tablets/galaxy-tab-s9-fe/buy/
> >>
> >> I talked to the chat line.  I asked if the
> >> Android was the open source version of the Google
> >> version.  He said they were the same.  Am I missing
> >> something?
> >>
> >> I also asked if the preinstalled Google apps could be
> >> remove or just disabled.  He said just disabled.
> >> (Makes me wonder if there is any background spying
> >> that is hidden away preinstalled as well.)
> >>
> >> My wife is after Google Free (she hates being spied on).
> >>
> >> Is there a google free android out there?
> >
> > Yes. But not on Samsung hardware.
>
> Who?

See John's responses.

But unless you want to research, tinker, etc., etc. a *lot*,
alternative Android distributions are more a problem than a solution.

You might get an *OS*, but you don't get (m)any apps. And if you *do*
want/need every day apps, you *will* get Google stuff (Play Store,
Google Play Services, Google Apps, etc.) whether you like it or not.

It's a bit like asking you want Windows, but you want it to be
Microsoft-free. No such animal.

> > Buy your wife an iPad.
>
> She looked at one, but found it a bit too weird
> to operate.

Tough! Either a good brand Android, i.e. like Samsung, or an iPad.
Those are your only realistic options.

[Arno Welzel]

T, 2023-10-29 11:12:

> Hi All,
>
> My wife has her eye on this
>
> https://www.samsung.com/us/tablets/galaxy-tab-s9-fe/buy/
>
> I talked to the chat line. I asked if the
> Android was the open source version of the Google
> version. He said they were the same. Am I missing
> something?

Android is Open Source - also see <https://source.android.com/>.

But manufacturers like Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei etc. do usually *not*
just put Android as it is on their devices but customize it with their
own proprietary modifications like a number of Samsung specific apps and
a Samsung specific user interface.

If you want a "original" version of Android you have to stick with
Google Pixel devices or install a custom ROM like LineageOS (see
<https://lineageos.org>) - which means you need to learn how to install
USB drivers for Fastboot, unlock bootlader, install a custom ROM etc..

> I also asked if the preinstalled Google apps could be
> remove or just disabled. He said just disabled.

Correct - most of the Google apps can only be disabled, so they don't
run any longer.

> (Makes me wonder if there is any background spying
> that is hidden away preinstalled as well.)

If you think, devices are spying on you, then don't buy them. Whatever
people will tell you, you won't believe it anyway.

Maybe Librem is the better alternative for you:
<https://puri.sm/products/librem-11/>

Also keep in mind, that you do *not* have to create or use a Google
account to use an Android based device. Many apps are also available on
alternative sources like <https://f-droid.org/en/> or
<https://apkpure.com/en/>.

> Is there a google free android out there?

Yes. But not on Samsung devices.

Also see e/OS/ - a Google-free version of Android:

<https://e.foundation/en/e-os/>

But it is only available or a limited number of devices and only
preinstalled on devices by Murena. Otherwise you need to install it on
your own in a similar way like LineageOS: Fastboot, bootloader unlock etc.


--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 29.10.23 um 12:08 schrieb T:

There are not many people saying that.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 29.10.23 um 12:13 schrieb T:

> There would not be a Linux tablet out there yet?

There are but with severe limitations compared to an Android tablet.

[AJL]

There are also Chrome OS tablets like this Lenovo Duet 3 I'm posting with.
It came with a detachable keyboard case that I seldom use but would be
handy on trips. I've had no trouble running any of the Android apps that I
use (YMMV)...

[Frank Slootweg]

Yes, there are other choices, but considering T's/T's-wife's dislike
for Google, Chrome OS isn't a realistic option either.

As T hasn't bothered telling us *what* his wife wants to *do* with the
tablet, giving advice/suggestions is a tad hard.

IIRC, he asked the same/similar 'questions' not too long ago and since
then, little to nothing has changed, not the 'questions' and hence not
the 'answers'.

[AJL]

Perhaps there are others lurking here besides the T's that are also
interested in the same question.

> As T hasn't bothered telling us *what* his wife wants to *do* with the
>tablet, giving advice/suggestions is a tad hard.
>
> IIRC, he asked the same/similar 'questions' not too long ago and since
>then, little to nothing has changed, not the 'questions' and hence not
>the 'answers'.

Better than a dead group IMO. YMMV...

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 03:12:51 -0700, T wrote:
> My wife has her eye on this
>
> https://www.samsung.com/us/tablets/galaxy-tab-s9-fe/buy/

I have the Galaxy A54, not S9. I don't know what if any differences
there may be between the two, but I can't imagine they make much
difference in the answers to your questions.

> I talked to the chat line. I asked if the
> Android was the open source version of the Google
> version. He said they were the same. Am I missing
> something?

Samsung, like most manufacturers, makes its own mods to Google's
standard Android. That's not a secret, so I think the rep
misunderstood your question, because I can't imagine he wouldn't know
that.

> I also asked if the preinstalled Google apps could be
> remove or just disabled. He said just disabled.
> (Makes me wonder if there is any background spying
> that is hidden away preinstalled as well.)

The real trouble is that the preinstalled _Samsung_ apps can't be
removed, and some can't even be disabled. If you were reading this
group a month ago you saw my travails with that. Google Phone.
Messaging, and Contacts apps are not preinstalled (not all three, at
least), but can be downloaded from the Google Play Store and used
instead of the Samsung apps. I did that because I didn't like the
user interface for the three Samsung apps.

There are of course privacy issues with using the Google apps, but
Samsung is no better on privacy, as far as I know.

> My wife is after Google Free (she hates being spied on).
>
> Is there a google free android out there?

Do you mean a Google Android that costs nothing, or an Android that
is free of Google influence? The latter would be a Google-free
Android: the hyphen is important. But as far as I know, the answer to
that question is No.



--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

[Frank Slootweg]

AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
> On 10/29/23 9:00 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

> >> There are also Chrome OS tablets like this Lenovo Duet 3 I'm posting with.
> >> It came with a detachable keyboard case that I seldom use but would be
> >> handy on trips. I've had no trouble running any of the Android apps that I
> >> use (YMMV)...
> >
> > Yes, there are other choices, but considering T's/T's-wife's dislike
> >for Google, Chrome OS isn't a realistic option either.
>
> Perhaps there are others lurking here besides the T's that are also
> interested in the same question.

Valid point! One can always hope, can't one!? :-)

> > As T hasn't bothered telling us *what* his wife wants to *do* with the
> >tablet, giving advice/suggestions is a tad hard.
> >
> > IIRC, he asked the same/similar 'questions' not too long ago and since
> >then, little to nothing has changed, not the 'questions' and hence not
> >the 'answers'.
>
> Better than a dead group IMO. YMMV...

You *really* should get out more! Just kidding. Again a valid point. I
don't have (m)any dead groups, but as you say, YMMV.

So we'll happily chit chat along.

[The Real Bev]

On 10/29/23 10:55 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:

>> Better than a dead group IMO. YMMV...
>
> You *really* should get out more! Just kidding. Again a valid point. I
> don't have (m)any dead groups, but as you say, YMMV.

You're fortunate. Only my tech groups are still alive; the interest
groups -- skiing, motorcycling, bicycling, frugality -- died long ago.
Some of the people have transferred to Facebook, but many are unwilling
to put up with FB's crap. I'm pretty tough, though...

> So we'll happily chit chat along.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Americans are looking for more government in their life,
not less." -- Colin Powell, former Good Guy

[Wally J]

John Dallman <j...@cix.co.uk> wrote

>> There would not be a Linux tablet out there yet?
>
> There are some, but before you buy one, you should try to get your
> requirements clear. The Android ecosystem means there are apps for most
> needs, but Linux tablets don't have nearly so much software available.
>
> <https://itsfoss.com/linux-tablets/>
>
> <https://itslinuxfoss.com/best-linux-tablets/>

How about Andronix which allows you to run dual Linux & Android unrooted.
*Most Linux distros are available on Android without needing root*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/VVSNhPD4bwo/>

It would be nice to know how these "real" Linux distros inside Termux
compare to plain old Termux in terms of getting things done in Android.
<http://andronix.app/>

Regarding "AndroiNix - Linux running inside of Android without root"...
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=studio.com.techriz.andronix>

I installed AndroNix where my initial five-minute experience so far was...
1. You download the app & when you run it, it asks a few basic questions.
2. I chose not to add a GUI (I opted only for the command line interface).
3. And then, you're on the {Debian,Fedora,Ubuntu,etc.} CLI inside Termux.
<https://docs.andronix.app/unmodded-distros/unmodded-os-installation/>

After rebooting, your choices then become:
a. On your Android phone, you can still start Termux (and stay in Termux)
b. Or, start Termux & then start _any_ Linux distro (e.g., Ubuntu 20.04)
c. Type "exit" to return you to Termux (type it again to exit Termux)
<https://dev.to/imprakharshukla/installing-linux-on-your-android-device-25cf>

Note the Linux distro is installed inside Termux using these commands
$ pkg update -y && pkg install wget curl proot tar -y && wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/AndronixOrigin/master/Installer/Ubuntu20/ubuntu20.sh
-O ubuntu20.sh && chmod +x ubuntu20.sh && bash ubuntu20.sh

Which will result in the instruction at the end of that activity.
"You can now launch Ubuntu with the ./start-ubuntu20.sh script form next time"

This will show all the src back-end scripts that AndroNix uses.
<https://github.com/AndronixApp/AndronixOrigin>

Then, whenever you are in Termux, you can go to Ubuntu using
$ ./start-ubuntu20.sh

Which puts into the Ubuntu 20.04 CLI (or whatever distro you chose).
root@localhost:~# _____

It's clear you can install a bunch of "real" Linux distros
where to start any of them you use their particular start command.

If you want to start the Linux GUI, you need a few more steps.
<https://www.fosslicious.com/2019/10/install-and-run-ubuntu-on-termux.html>

All necessary software is available on the Google Play Store.
<https://androidarcitect.com/2020/09/15/andronix-get-linux-on-android/>

It would be nice to know how these "real" Linux distros
compare to Termux in terms of getting things done in Android.
--
The whole point of Usenet is to find people who know more than you do.
And to contribute to the overall tribal knowledge value of the newsgroup.
It's a domino effect where each of us helps the next person in the lineup.

[Wally J]

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote

> The real trouble is that the preinstalled _Samsung_ apps can't be
> removed, and some can't even be disabled.

Hi Stan,

Hmmmm... you usually know a lot more than I do, so I pensively dispute
that statement because maybe I didn't understand what you are claiming.

I feel that statement is slightly wrong in that for any given user
on Android (where most of us have Android set up for only one user),
you certainly can disable and uninstall any app on the phone (AFAIK).

Without being rooted.

Here's a log of when I last arbitrarily proved that you can not only
force stop, and disable, and uninstall an app in the user space,
but you can also copy it to Windows to clone it and then modify it
(if you know how of course) & reinstall it (again, if you know how).

C:\> adb shell pm list packages -s | findstr /i "samsung" | findstr "knox"
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.kpecore
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.attestation
-> package:com.samsung.knox.securefolder <=== {it's installed}
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.pushmanager
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.analytics.uploader
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.containercore

C:\> adb shell pm path com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> package:/system/priv-app/SecureFolder/SecureFolder.apk

C:\> adb shell pm dump com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> {too much stuff}

C:\> adb shell am force-stop com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> {no complaints}

C:\> adb shell pm disable-user --user 0 com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> Package com.samsung.knox.securefolder new state: disabled-user

C:\> adb shell pm list packages -e | findstr knox
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.kpecore
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.attestation
-> package:com.knox.vpn.proxyhandler
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.pushmanager
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.containercore
-> package:com.sec.enterprise.knox.cloudmdm.smdms
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.analytics.uploader

C:\> adb shell pm list packages -d | findstr /i "knox"
-> package:com.samsung.knox.securefolder

C:\> adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> Success

C:\> adb shell pm path com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> {now finds nothing}

C:\> adb shell pm list packages -u | findstr /i "samsung" | findstr "knox"
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.kpecore
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.attestation
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.pushmanager
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.containercore
-> package:com.samsung.knox.securefolder <=== {it's uninstalled}
-> package:com.samsung.android.knox.analytics.uploader

C:\> adb shell dumpsys package packages | findStr /i "knox" | findstr ".apk$"
-> {stuff}

C:\> adb pull /system/priv-app/SecureFolder/SecureFolder.apk
-> /system/priv-app/SecureFolder/SecureFolder.apk: 1 file pulled, 0 skipped. 29.1 MB/s (13579951 bytes in 0.445s)

Edit it on Windows with the free *APK Editor Studio* APK editor utility.
<https://qwertycube.com/apk-editor-studio/>

C:\> adb shell cmd package install-existing com.samsung.knox.securefolder
-> Package com.samsung.knox.securefolder installed for user: 0

<https://technastic.com/adb-shell-commands-list/>
<https://technastic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ADB-Shell-Commands-List.pdf>

As always, if you know more than I do about this, please add value.

[Wally J]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote

> Android is Open Source - also see <https://source.android.com/>.
> But manufacturers like Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei etc. do usually *not*
> just put Android as it is on their devices but customize it with their
> own proprietary modifications like a number of Samsung specific apps and
> a Samsung specific user interface.

On just that one concept, here's an example from me trying to help someone
last week where you start in the Android settings package activities, but
as you dive deeper, you end up in a Samsung-customized settings activity.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ioFCKEMJBMc/m/_9pOe5iKCQAJ>

The first part of that journey illustrated above is in Android settings
<com.android.settings> but you end up in Samsung's customized settings.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Dzys8fTr/contrast01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/BZRZ8Ftc/contrast02.jpg>

I would suspect on the Pixel you start and stop in <com.android.settings>
(instead of ending up in <com.samsung.accessibility> when you run this).
1. Go to Samsung Android 13 "Settings"
2. Tap "Display" & scroll to the very bottom of the activity
3. Under "Looking for something else?" tap on "Visibility enhancements"
4. Longpress on the "High contrasts fonts=On/Off" description line

I suspect the _entire_ set of steps on the Pixel remains in <com.android.settings>.

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:04:26 -0400, Wally J wrote:
> I feel that statement is slightly wrong in that for any given user
> on Android (where most of us have Android set up for only one user),
> you certainly can disable and uninstall any app on the phone (AFAIK).
>

Have you tried it? I did, and Samsung's Phone app, Messages app, and
Contacts app had no way in the UI to uninstall or disable them. Even
the setting for "Remove permissions if app is unused" was grayed out
(I didn't check the other two).

[Wally J]

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote

>> I feel that statement is slightly wrong in that for any given user
>> on Android (where most of us have Android set up for only one user),
>> you certainly can disable and uninstall any app on the phone (AFAIK).
>>
>
> Have you tried it?

Hi Stan,

Of course I tried it. Give me some credit for not guessing all the time
like a lot of people do (as I don't say things that aren't facts).

My credibility on Usenet must be 100% stellar. 100% accurate.
Or it's not worth me writing anything to help others do what I do.

Those were cut-and-pasted exact copies of the commands I ran.
And their exact results.

There isn't a single app on the unrooted Android phone you can't uninstall
(to my knowledge - although I haven't tested uninstalling _every_ app!).

You don't give me enough credit if you asked "have I tried it" since I
don't say things the way I said them that I haven't empirically tested.

Of course I've tried it. And... I've documented that it works. Many times.
<https://www.droidwin.com/debloat-remove-bloatware-from-samsung-devices-via-adb/>

My Samsung Galaxy A32-5G (SM-A326U) is unrootable (as far as I am aware),
so there's no chance that I'm rooted - and everything can be uninstalled.

> I did, and Samsung's Phone app, Messages app, and
> Contacts app had no way in the UI to uninstall or disable them. Even
> the setting for "Remove permissions if app is unused" was grayed out
> (I didn't check the other two).

Oh. Well. Um. Er... Now you say that you want to do it all using a *GUI*.
That's different.

I used the command line interface to Android.
I used "adb" like everyone else does who wants to uninstall bloatware.
<https://www.droidwin.com/debloat-remove-bloatware-from-samsung-devices-via-adb/>

There's also a free "local adb" if that's something you're interested in.
And, of course, you can run adb from the Termux command line (I think).

Otherwise you need to run this single command on your PC to uninstall
any app on the phone that you want to uninstall, e.g., for Chrome:
C:\> adb pm uninstall --user 0 com.android.chrome

Note that wipes it out for user 0 (which most of us are logged in as).

[T]

Same drawback in the Desktop world as well.

She only uses firefox, brave, Thunderbird,
Kindle, writer.

[T]

On 10/29/23 07:58, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 29.10.23 um 12:08 schrieb T:
>> On 10/29/23 03:35, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Buy your wife an iPad.
>>
>> She looked at one, but found it a bit too weird
>> to operate.
>
> There are not many people saying that.
>

Indeed. Otherwise folks would not pay extra for them.

But personal tastes vary. She carries on about having
to use double the strokes to do what she typically does.

[Wally J]

T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote

>>> On 10/29/23 03:35, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Buy your wife an iPad.
>>>
>>> She looked at one, but found it a bit too weird
>>> to operate.
>>
>> There are not many people saying that.
>>
>
> Indeed. Otherwise folks would not pay extra for them.
>
> But personal tastes vary. She carries on about having
> to use double the strokes to do what she typically does.

Consider the source.
a. My credibility is 100%
b. Jeorg's credibility is 0%

Hence, I wouldn't take any advice from Joerg Lorenz, since he only reads
Apple advertisements, which don't tell you that there are thousands of very
useful things you can't do on iOS that every other operating system does.

For example, only on iOS can you _not_ have the privacy of the Tor Browser.
And only on iOS can you not set up a system wide firewall like NetGuard.

There is no privacy on iOS since you _must_ not only _create_ a mothership
tracking account - but Apple will lock you out of your own device if you
don't keep constantly logging into that account every day of your life.

If you don't believe that, look at this thread where I took three iPads.
1. I logged into it every time Apple asked me to
2. I logged into it once - and never again
3. Same with the third iPad except I tried to unlock my AppleID

In the first case, everything works fine.
In the second, the AppleAccount was locked unilaterally by Apple.
In the third, Apple literally bricked the iPad (Activation Required).

Only last week did I walk down to the Apple store and allow them to write
my government ID into their databases - so that they'd unlock the 2nd.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the third.
I'll document all this up but what the point is that on Android the phone
works perfectly fine without logging into the Google mothership.

On iOS, you _must_ log into the Apple mothership tracking servers.
None of this does Jeorg know so that's why I wouldn't listen to him.

Honestly, almost nobody knows this because who would go years without
logging into their iPads but people like me who test out the system.

For details, see this thread on the child-like Apple newsgroup.
*Apple finally let me log into my own iPad to use it*
*(after years of holding my AppleID hostage)*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/wrqMIO5eLzg>

[T]

On 10/29/23 07:28, Arno Welzel wrote:
> But it is only available or a limited number of devices and only
> preinstalled on devices by Murena.

I am only seeing phone on their web site, no tablets.
I could have missed them

[T]

On 10/29/23 09:58, Stan Brown wrote:
> Android that is free of Google in

that one

[T]

Love TOR!

[Wally J]

T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote

> Love TOR!

The morons like Joerg have no clue that iOS can't do thousands (upon
thousands) of useful things that we do for privacy on all other operating
systems (not just on Android).

The TOR Browser is one of those privacy things Apple won't allow on iOS.
*Can I run Tor Browser on an iOS device?*
<https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/>\
"Apple requires browsers on iOS to use something called Webkit,
which prevents any browser from having the same privacy protections
as Tor Browser."

While Apple advertises privacy, the problem is you can't do thousands
(upon thousands!) of useful privacy-related things on the iOS platform.

For example, you can't spoof your GPS location no matter how hard you try.

Meanwhile, it's trivial to spoof your GPS location on the Android device.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps>

Just remember, people like Joerg Lorenz only read Apple advertisements.
They don't know anything about Apple products.

I use both Android & iOS every single day.
I know the difference.

And it's not pretty.

Suffice to say there is no privacy possible on Apple devices, mainly
because of these limitations and the requirement to be logged into Apple
mothership tracking servers every single moment of your device's life.

[Wally J]

T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote

>> Android that is free of Google in
>
> that one

Since I can't root my Galaxy A32-5G (SM-A326U), I haven't tried,
but there are ways (as others said) to install AOSP Android.

Maybe someone here can explain the basic steps of how to do that?

Arno mentioned "LineageOS: Fastboot, bootloader unlock etc." but what we'd
need is a working bootloader-specific tutorial where most are in chinglish,
hence unusable (since you can't be guessing at the steps the first time).

[Dave Royal]

Discerning lady! I've always found the iPad UI disappointing; I rue the
day my wife was persuaded to buy one. But people who've never known
anything better get used to it. I've used Androids tablets ever since,
though I use an iPhone (it was free) and the UI, while still weird IMO, is
not such a limitation.

And, to be fair, my prior experience of tablets, albeit small ones, was
Linux on a Zaurus, then Maemo on a Nokia.

(Mobile Firefox first appeared on Maemo - it had panels off the sides of
the display which could be swiped into view IIRC. It was simplified later
for Android.)

As you say, personal tastes vary.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 30.10.23 um 09:09 schrieb Dave Royal:

> Discerning lady! I've always found the iPad UI disappointing; I rue the
> day my wife was persuaded to buy one. But people who've never known
> anything better get used to it. I've used Androids tablets ever since,
> though I use an iPhone (it was free) and the UI, while still weird IMO, is
> not such a limitation.

Nonsense. There is a reason that iPads have by far the biggest market
share of all tablet brands. The worst are Samsung. I had already two of
them. After less than a month I had to gift them away to get rid of
them. Cheap manufacture that gives them a toy-look together with the
Android-interface. Ways too expensive given the performance level.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 30.10.23 um 09:09 schrieb Dave Royal:

> But people who've never known
> anything better get used to it. I've used Androids tablets ever since,
> though I use an iPhone (it was free) and the UI, while still weird IMO, is
> not such a limitation.

Nonsense. There is a reason that iPads have by far the biggest market
share of all tablet brands. The worst are Samsung. I had already two of
them. After less than a month I had to gift them away to get rid of
them. Cheap manufacture that gives them a toy-look together with the
Android-interface.

[T]

Thank you!

[T]

Sometimes folks want me to work on iPads/iPhones (I am a
computer consultant to small business) when I am
there working on their computers. I have noticed that
the "gestures" vary greatly between version of iOS.
Drives me nuts. I can't tell you how many times I have
had to ask the customer "Where is settings, this week?
And what do I swipe this week to get at it?"

I have not seen this on customer's or my wife's Android(s).

[T]

On 10/29/23 19:23, Wally J wrote:

Thank you!

[T]

On 10/30/23 01:09, Dave Royal wrote:

[Theo]

Such instructions are usually device specific, which is why you have to
find a distro that supports your phone and follow their instructions.
Most of the 'blog posts' on this out there are clickbait and outdated.

If you have a Pixel 4 or later, GrapheneOS have a WebUSB installer which
is fairly straightforward and doesn't need any extra software: you just
work down the instructions on one page, clicking the buttons to install
various pieces:
https://grapheneos.org/install/web

There are some strong limitations on which platforms and browsers you
can run it on (Windows and Mac are easiest, Linux distros have some
significant caveats), but if you fulfill the requirements it is a fairly
smooth process.

You may be able to do it from another Android phone (running Chrome).

(GrapheneOS is not pure AOSP, they have their own extras. But they
general make the de-Googled experience more usable and secure than pure
AOSP, which is quite neglected these days)

Theo

[Stan Brown]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 03:05:22 -0700, T wrote:
>
> On 10/30/23 01:09, Dave Royal wrote:

You seem to be double-posting fairly often, though not
every article. If i's a matter of not seeing your
article in the newsgroup and assuming it didn't go
through, please wait a little longer before making that
assumption and reposting. Thanks!

[candycanearter07]

On 10/30/23 09:13, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 03:05:22 -0700, T wrote:
>>
>> On 10/30/23 01:09, Dave Royal wrote:
>
> You seem to be double-posting fairly often, though not
> every article. If i's a matter of not seeing your
> article in the newsgroup and assuming it didn't go
> through, please wait a little longer before making that
> assumption and reposting. Thanks!
>

Judging by the headers, they're posting from Eternal September. It's
been having an issue where it doesn't return a confirmation message or
something.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

[Frank Slootweg]

The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/29/23 10:55 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
>
> >> Better than a dead group IMO. YMMV...
> >
> > You *really* should get out more! Just kidding. Again a valid point. I
> > don't have (m)any dead groups, but as you say, YMMV.
>
> You're fortunate. Only my tech groups are still alive; the interest
> groups -- skiing, motorcycling, bicycling, frugality -- died long ago.
> Some of the people have transferred to Facebook, but many are unwilling
> to put up with FB's crap. I'm pretty tough, though...

Yes, my other groups are also all tech groups. Is there anything
else!? :-) c.q. :-(

And indeed the few non-tech groups I subscribed to - mainly travel -
have died. :-(

[Frank Slootweg]

She does *what*? Which apps/programs/applications/<whatever> does she
use/need?

Never mind the rambling about what she doesn't like for some
strange/unknown reasons and the rambling about 'Google-free' Android,
Linux, etc.! What does she *need*!?

[Frank Slootweg]

T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> Sometimes folks want me to work on iPads/iPhones (I am a
> computer consultant to small business) when I am
> there working on their computers. I have noticed that
> the "gestures" vary greatly between version of iOS.
> Drives me nuts. I can't tell you how many times I have
> had to ask the customer "Where is settings, this week?
> And what do I swipe this week to get at it?"
>
> I have not seen this on customer's or my wife's Android(s).

That only shows that you haven't looked much in any detail at *either*
(iPads/iPhones and Android devices).

If anything, it's on *Android* devices where the settings differ
largely, dependent not only on brand, but also on model and Android
version.

If someone needs a setting in this group, we always have to say vague
things like "the 'navigation' path to get there is probably something
similar to ... the setting is probably called something like ...", etc..
We can't be specific, unless we know the brand *and* (precise) model
*and* Android version.

For iPads/iPhones there are obviously less such problems, because it's
only one brand and much fewer models.

[Frank Slootweg]

Have you considered getting her a *Windows* tablet?

We know what *you* prefer (Linux), but what about *her* *needs* (not
vague/unsubstantiated 'dislikes').

[AJL]

On 10/30/23 9:02 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>T <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 10/29/23 04:43, John Dallman wrote:
>> > In article <uhlep4$3rdbf$3...@dont-email.me>, T...@invalid.invalid (T) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thank you!
>> >>
>> >> There would not be a Linux tablet out there yet?
>> >
>> > There are some, but before you buy one, you should try to get your
>> > requirements clear. The Android ecosystem means there are apps for most
>> > needs, but Linux tablets don't have nearly so much software available.
>> >
>> > <https://itsfoss.com/linux-tablets/>
>> >
>> > <https://itslinuxfoss.com/best-linux-tablets/>
>> >
>> > John
>>
>> Same drawback in the Desktop world as well.
>>
>> She only uses firefox, brave, Thunderbird,
>> Kindle, writer.
>
> Have you considered getting her a *Windows* tablet?

I've thought about adding a Windows tablet to my toy collection but every
time I've played with them at my local Best Buy store I've not been
impressed. They run warm to the touch. They're very slow. They're difficult
to use because of the teeny-tiny icons (perhaps because the OS isn't
designed for a tablet?). And the squarish heavy body is uncomfortable to
hold. Did I miss anything? Other reviews are welcome...

[Wally J]

Dave Royal <da...@dave123royal.com> wrote

> Discerning lady! I've always found the iPad UI disappointing; I rue the
> day my wife was persuaded to buy one. But people who've never known
> anything better get used to it. I've used Androids tablets ever since,
> though I use an iPhone (it was free) and the UI, while still weird IMO, is
> not such a limitation.

Like you, I also have iOS devices in the family along with Androids,
where I got my last iPhone for half price (with tradein) & free Galaxies.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

And the Kyocera & Blackberry & flip phones even before all that above.
And VaxVMS, SunOS/Solaris and PDP11's and IBM370's before even all that.

The point is that people like us have used almost all operating systems.
We can compare iOS to Android given our experience; Joerg Lorenz can not.

a. We're not afraid to try out things, and,
b. We're not driven by marketing alone, and,
c. We have the experience to compare the various operating systems.

> And, to be fair, my prior experience of tablets, albeit small ones, was
> Linux on a Zaurus, then Maemo on a Nokia.

I've never used a Linux tablet, but I often dual booted to Linux when
I transitioned from RedHat/CentOS to Ubuntu way back in the Unity days.

The point is that people like Joerg Lorenz have _not_ used anything else.
None of the iKooks, actually, knows _anything_ about any other system.

Worse... they _believe_ everything they're told w/o checking anything.
Which is why Joerg Lorenz said the crazy things that he says.

> (Mobile Firefox first appeared on Maemo - it had panels off the sides of
> the display which could be swiped into view IIRC. It was simplified later
> for Android.)

Personally, I think ChromeOS, which I've never used, by the way, is an
attempt to restrict the user tremendously - just like with Apple iPads.

> As you say, personal tastes vary.

I have studied this phenomena and I do NOT think it's personal tastes, so
much as it's the psychology of marketing imbibing fear into some people.

I have both iOS & Android where I don't think it's personal taste so much
as the people who buy Apple devices are like sheep led to slaughter.

They _believe_ every smooth succulent sentence Apple marketing feeds them.

It has been my experience that people who buy Apple products do so based on
Marketing (ever hear of Apple's "yellow" campaign, for example?) and not
based on functionality.

When I ask people who own iPhones or iPads _why_ they bought them, they
always say something that is associated with intense personal fears.

For example, many people say they don't want viruses, or that their friends
have it so they can ask for help from them or that Apple keeps them safe.

The people who buy Apple products are NOT generally at all knowledgeable.

They buy Apple products for that false sense of security, even though the
iOS operating system historically has double to triple the zero day bugs
than Android, and ten times as many exploits as reported by the government.
--
The whole point of Usenet is to find people who know more than you do.
And to contribute to the overall tribal knowledge value of the newsgroup.
It's a domino effect where each of us helps the next person in the lineup.

[Wally J]

Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

> For iPads/iPhones there are obviously less such problems, because it's
> only one brand and much fewer models.

Frank Slootweg is correct that it's more consistent on the iOS devices.
That's because, as Frank correctly surmised, it's from a single outfit.

On Android, we just went over the accessibility features of the
high-contrast fonts, for example, where Bob Henson and I on the Samsung
have a _different_ settings activity than Andy Burns on a Pixel.

Also Stan Brown, moving from Pixel to Samsung, liked the phone dialer
better on one than the other and was trying to switch one for the other.

Recently I helped someone on an old iPad over the phone on Accessibility
features (as she's going almost blind by the day) where it turns out that
all iPads have Accessibility features in the same spot (thank God).

In summary, just as all Samsungs are pretty much alike, all iPads/iPhones
are pretty much alike - but it's not a feature of the operating system.

As Frank wisely noted, it's merely a function of one company making them.

[Wally J]

candycanearter07 <n...@thanks.net> wrote

> Judging by the headers, they're posting from Eternal September. It's
> been having an issue where it doesn't return a confirmation message or
> something.

I have to agree that Eternal September has been doing that to me recently.

There isn't anything I can do on my side as I already changed the response
period to a couple of minutes and it still "says" it failed even then.

The only thing we can do, as far as I know, is "not believe it" at first.

One thing I do (for privacy) which may help in this Eternal September faux
error is read using a different nntp server or check in google groups.
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

Unfortunately, when you do that, you'll see so much spam that I don't know
how people are handling it given all that "Indonesian" spam flooding us.

(And yes, I saw the recent "psychedelic spam" thread on the iOS newsgroup.)
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/Bc4VQPVkqT8>

[Wally J]

Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote

>> Since I can't root my Galaxy A32-5G (SM-A326U), I haven't tried,
>> but there are ways (as others said) to install AOSP Android.
>>
>> Maybe someone here can explain the basic steps of how to do that?
>>
>> Arno mentioned "LineageOS: Fastboot, bootloader unlock etc." but what we'd
>> need is a working bootloader-specific tutorial where most are in chinglish,
>> hence unusable (since you can't be guessing at the steps the first time).
>
> Such instructions are usually device specific, which is why you have to
> find a distro that supports your phone and follow their instructions.

Hi Theo,

I wish I understood how to unlock a typical Android phone - but I don't.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZYM2NBcP/bootloader02.jpg>

All I know is how to unlock the network status; but not the bootloader.
<https://i.postimg.cc/502mtgQB/networkunlock02.jpg>

Thanks for trying to answer my heartfelt plea for more information, as my
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G SM326U is unrootable so I can't even test things out.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/t-mobile-sm-a326u-unlocking-rules-terms.4267147/post-87846261>

> Most of the 'blog posts' on this out there are clickbait and outdated.

I understand that, as there are even more flaws, not just the two above.
a. Most are clickbait (e.g., selling you a rooted solution)
b. Almost all are outdated (i.e., the bootloader version keeps changing)
c. And many are just plain wrong from the start or in chinglish text speak

I guess there's a new category, which is chatgpt rooting instructions!
<https://xdaforums.com/t/so-i-had-an-interesting-talk-with-chatgpt-about-my-sm-a326u1s-bootloader.4574173/>

> If you have a Pixel 4 or later, GrapheneOS have a WebUSB installer which
> is fairly straightforward and doesn't need any extra software: you just
> work down the instructions on one page, clicking the buttons to install
> various pieces:
> https://grapheneos.org/install/web

That's nice as the unlocking the bootloader is only the first step, right?
Then there's finding the correct custom ROM, right?
And maybe many other steps too, right?

Note that I once unlocked my Samsung Galaxy S3 by just using one of those
"SuperSU" style apps, which didn't completely unlock it but just enough.

That was super simple - but it doesn't work on my Galaxy A32-5G (SM-A326U).
(Ask me how I know this.)

> There are some strong limitations on which platforms and browsers you
> can run it on (Windows and Mac are easiest, Linux distros have some
> significant caveats), but if you fulfill the requirements it is a fairly
> smooth process.
>
> You may be able to do it from another Android phone (running Chrome).
>
> (GrapheneOS is not pure AOSP, they have their own extras. But they
> general make the de-Googled experience more usable and secure than pure
> AOSP, which is quite neglected these days)

Are the Pixels generally the easiest to unlock?

I'm shocked, for example, how easy it was to run SuperSU on my Samsung
Galaxy S3 but how hard (impossible) it is to unlock my Galaxy A32-5G.

What determines how hard or how easy it is to unlock a _future_ phone?

[T]

On 10/30/23 07:13, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 03:05:22 -0700, T wrote:
>>
>> On 10/30/23 01:09, Dave Royal wrote:
>
> You seem to be double-posting fairly often, though not
> every article. If i's a matter of not seeing your
> article in the newsgroup and assuming it didn't go
> through, please wait a little longer before making that
> assumption and reposting. Thanks!
>

Waited two hours or more for THunderbird-115 (new
but not improved) to finish compiling the message.
I presumed it had crashed. 115 is bug city!

[candycanearter07]

On 10/30/23 14:00, Wally J wrote:
> candycanearter07 <n...@thanks.net> wrote
>
>> Judging by the headers, they're posting from Eternal September. It's
>> been having an issue where it doesn't return a confirmation message or
>> something.
>
> I have to agree that Eternal September has been doing that to me recently.
>
> There isn't anything I can do on my side as I already changed the response
> period to a couple of minutes and it still "says" it failed even then.

In e-s.support, Ray said that it had something to do with the spam
filter and should be fixed soon.

[AJL]

Fortunately older Thunderbird versions are still available for download
including 45.0 which is what I use on my Windows toys. I set it to not
check for updates since I like it the way it is and screw-ups like you're
having don't happen. Eventually I imagine Windows will outgrow my version
but not so far (fingers crossed). Now if I could just get it to work on
this Chromebook I'm posting with...

BTW I'm using an Android newsreader app to post with so the OT gripers here
can remain silent (I hope).

[candycanearter07]

On 10/30/23 13:48, Wally J wrote:
> Personally, I think ChromeOS, which I've never used, by the way, is an
> attempt to restrict the user tremendously - just like with Apple iPads.

Especially with where they're usually employed (schools), they're so
locked down that it becomes an exercise in frustration. Like, I have
seen schools block airdrop, GitHub, connecting to a IP through a web
browser, the terminal (tho that one is more fair), wallpaper settings,
and more

>> As you say, personal tastes vary.
>
> I have studied this phenomena and I do NOT think it's personal tastes, so
> much as it's the psychology of marketing imbibing fear into some people.
>
> I have both iOS & Android where I don't think it's personal taste so much
> as the people who buy Apple devices are like sheep led to slaughter.
>
> They _believe_ every smooth succulent sentence Apple marketing feeds them.
>
> It has been my experience that people who buy Apple products do so based on
> Marketing (ever hear of Apple's "yellow" campaign, for example?) and not
> based on functionality.

Don't forget brand image/loyalty.

> When I ask people who own iPhones or iPads _why_ they bought them, they
> always say something that is associated with intense personal fears.
>
> For example, many people say they don't want viruses, or that their friends
> have it so they can ask for help from them or that Apple keeps them safe.
>
> The people who buy Apple products are NOT generally at all knowledgeable.
>
> They buy Apple products for that false sense of security, even though the
> iOS operating system historically has double to triple the zero day bugs
> than Android, and ten times as many exploits as reported by the government.
--

[AJL]

My newsreader app (PhoNews) usually confirms message (to E-T) sent. It
hasn't been doing that recently but the message WAS sent. I thought the
problem was on my end but maybe not??

[Jörg Lorenz]

Bullshit! It is an E-S-issue. I'm affected as well and diverted to
Solani for englishspeaking groups.

[Stan Brown]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:53:46 -0400, Wally J wrote:
> Also Stan Brown, moving from Pixel to Samsung, liked the phone dialer
> better on one than the other and was trying to switch one for the other.

s/was trying to switch/switched/
(as I reported at the time)

While Samsung's Phone app can't be uninstalled and can't even be
disabled, and the default use of Samsung's Contacts app can't be
changed, the phone's UI _does_ let me designate a different default
phone app. I installed and chose Google Phone, and in turn it let me
change the default Contacts app to Google Contacts, as I prefer.

Apart from the wasted storage of a couple of hundred contacts in
Samsung's Contacts app, I'm all fixed up.

[T]

On 10/29/23 03:12, T wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My wife has her eye on this
>
> https://www.samsung.com/us/tablets/galaxy-tab-s9-fe/buy/
>
> I talked to the chat line.  I asked if the
> Android was the open source version of the Google
> version.  He said they were the same.  Am I missing
> something?
>
> I also asked if the preinstalled Google apps could be
> remove or just disabled.  He said just disabled.
> (Makes me wonder if there is any background spying
> that is hidden away preinstalled as well.)
>
> My wife is after Google Free (she hates being spied on).
>
> Is there a google free android out there?
>
> Many thanks,
> -T


My wife decided against an iPad whtn she found she could
not run TOR and such on it. She also dos not like
the extra gestures.

I could not find who told me that -- I think it was
Wally -- to thank him. So thank you.

She found a Samsung app that runs a hearing test
to customer configure the sound for her. And she
likes the idea

[Wally J]

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote

> While Samsung's Phone app can't be uninstalled

I made these for you Stan, just now, to illustrate what I say.
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTqrBMpR/dialer01.jpg> com.samsung.android.dialer
<https://i.postimg.cc/brN0pdVH/dialer02.jpg> easily create shortcuts
<https://i.postimg.cc/X71LNcbZ/dialer03.jpg> easily open contacts at will
<https://i.postimg.cc/W3V6Y5My/dialer04.jpg> test the contacts shortcut
<https://i.postimg.cc/mk594jHB/dialer05.jpg> same with the dialer activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/7PVXdrtn/dialer06.jpg> add a dialer shortcut
<https://i.postimg.cc/85TMmjGQ/dialer07.jpg> you can even add searches
<https://i.postimg.cc/MpcDnM69/dialer08.jpg> but you only get 1 default

Hi Stan,

This is such a difficult response because I know you're a smart
guy and I know you just want it to work; so I need to be gentle
with you on this as I think it's "possible" everything you want.

Just not the exact way you were hoping it to be (see below).

Below I gently correct four out of your five statements, all of
which I've done but I haven't tried to switch to Google contacts
(and, if you know me, you'll be gentle with me that I don't).

If you don't believe me, maybe Andy Burns can concur if he sees
this as Andy, I'm sure, understand everything I will say below.

> While Samsung's Phone app can't be uninstalled and can't even be
> disabled,

(1) It can be uninstalled for the user for free if you're willing to
use the adb command line (either local adb or adb on a computer).
adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.samsung.android.dialer

Same with disabling it.
adb shell pm disable-user --user 0 com.samsung.android.dialer

Since adb runs locally on the Android phone (e.g., ladb), most of
these disablers/uninstallers are a nice GUI wrapped around that CLI.

If you search on XDA Developers, you'll find _many_ graphical non-root
uninstallers, in fact, but the one that comes up most isn't free.
<https://www.packagedisabler.com>

> and the default use of Samsung's Contacts app can't be changed,

(2) This is maybe true but maybe not true, as the good news is there is
a public activity which you can easily access to bring it up (AFAICT).

What I did took only seconds, where I looked at all the Activities
inside com.samsung.android.dialer on my Android 13 Galaxy A32-5G.

One of those Activities is this shortcut, which I just now created
in two seconds and put on my desktop to bring up contacts directly.

When I tested it, it brought up exactly what it should have done.
com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.detail.calllog.CallLogDetailActivity

cmd activity start --user 0 -a android.intent.action.VIEW -n com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.detail.calllog.CallLogDetailActivity -f 0 com.samsung.android.dialer
URI intent:#Intent;package=com.samsung.android.dialer;component=com.samsung.android.dialer/.detail.calllog.CallLogDetailActivity;end
VERSION 1
ACTION android.intent.action.VIEW
COMPONENT com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.detail.calllog.CallLogDetailActivity
PACKAGE com.samsung.android.dialer
MATCHING ACTIVITIES 1
LABEL Contact details
NAME com.samsung.android.dialer.detail.calllog.CallLogDetailActivity
PACKAGE com.samsung.android.dialer

> the phone's UI _does_ let me designate a different default phone app.

(3) There is _another_ public activity which brings up the dialer.

cmd activity start --user 0 -a android.intent.action.VIEW -n com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.DialtactsActivity -f 0 com.samsung.android.dialer
URI intent:#Intent;package=com.samsung.android.dialer;component=com.samsung.android.dialer/.DialtactsActivity;end

VERSION 1
ACTION android.intent.action.VIEW
COMPONENT com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.DialtactsActivity
PACKAGE com.samsung.android.dialer

MATCHING ACTIVITIES 1
LABEL Phone
NAME com.samsung.android.dialer.DialtactsActivity
PACKAGE com.samsung.android.dialer

There is also an "Integrated Search Activity" for contacts
which will bring up a search within contacts on demand.

cmd activity start --user 0 -a android.intent.action.VIEW -n com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.search.activity.IntegratedSearchActivity -f 0 com.samsung.android.dialer
URI intent:#Intent;package=com.samsung.android.dialer;component=com.samsung.android.dialer/.search.activity.IntegratedSearchActivity;end

VERSION 1
ACTION android.intent.action.VIEW
COMPONENT com.samsung.android.dialer/com.samsung.android.dialer.search.activity.IntegratedSearchActivity
PACKAGE com.samsung.android.dialer

MATCHING ACTIVITIES 1
LABEL Phone
NAME com.samsung.android.dialer.search.activity.IntegratedSearchActivity
PACKAGE com.samsung.android.dialer

> I installed and chose Google Phone, and in turn it let me
> change the default Contacts app to Google Contacts, as I prefer.

(4) This statement is true that you can only have one default.
You can change the default all you want - but only 1 at a time.

Way back when, I seem to recall that there used to be both
a defaults dialer and a defaults contact setting in Android.

But my Android 13 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G has defaults for
Browser app
Call redirecting app
Caller ID & spam app
Digital assistant app
Home app
Phone app
SMS app

And, based on what I have installed, my "Phone app" defaults are
Dialer
euroconsumers
Phone
RF Mobile Trace

> Apart from the wasted storage of a couple of hundred contacts in
> Samsung's Contacts app, I'm all fixed up.

(5) I think that's just super dead wrong, Stan, and I wish you were
correct - because I hate the fact Android has only 1 contacts db.

The Android contacts are stored in an sqlite database, which
we've discussed very many times on this newsgroup over the years.

In fact, I poison my contacts sqlite database, using this app.
*Fake Contacts*
Create fake phone contacts, that will be stored on your phone
masquerading as your real contacts. The idea is to feed fake data
to any apps or companies who are copying our private data to use
or sell it. This is called data-poisoning.
<https://f-droid.org/packages/me.billdietrich.fake_contacts/>
<https://github.com/BillDietrich/fake_contacts>
<https://archive.org/details/github.com-BillDietrich-fake_contacts_-_2021-01-31_19-04-27>
<https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/me.billdietrich.fake_contacts?repo=main>

And then I use only messaging/contacts/dialer apps which can import/export
my personal contacts db (which is kept as a VCARD vcf & not as sqlite).

This app saves contacts in its own database separate from default
android contacts. This way no other app would be able to access
your real contacts. It can even be used in place of your default
phone (aka dialer) app. We can export/import contacts from Android
contacts app into this app. Maintains call log as well with the
name of the contact & shows the contact name when receiving calls.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/>
<https://github.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts> (old github)
<https://gitlab.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts> (new gitlab)

In summary, you don't have to believe a word I've said above,
especially as I agree that what I think you want to do isn't
just a switch that you set inside of the phone dialer settings.

But... you do need to make sure that you caveat your statements,
since you _can_ disable & delete _any_ app on Android for the user
(which is effectively an uninstallation as far as I can tell).

If it's not effectively uninstalled, you'll need to make an logical
argument as to why you feel the app isn't uninstalled for all intents
and purposes of the user (since we're not talking rooted devices).

Also, I will summarize that it took far longer for me to write
this up than it took for me to create the following shortcuts
a. Contacts (This shortcut brings up the samsung contacts.)
a. Dialer (This shortcut brings up the samsung dialer.)

Those shortcuts took only seconds to create from the Samsung
phone app (com.samsung.android.dialer), which you could do,
for example, with the Google phone app (I would think).

Anyway, the trick would be to "modify" one to call the other,
where the way I'd first approach that is I'd clone the app.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tool-clonemyapp-android-apk-cloner.4513777/>
<https://clonemy.app/>

And then I'd modify it on Windows & re-install it to Android.
But I've never done that - although it seems possible to do.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tool-apk-editor-studio-free-apk-reverse-engineering-tool.3972529/>

Windows freeware APK Reverse Engineering Tool
<https://apktool.org/docs/install/>
Windows freeware APK Editing Tool
<https://qwertycube.com/apk-editor-studio/>
--
Like dominoes, people can work together to move the problem set
down the line using knowledge that each of us has to give others.

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 01.11.23 um 01:28 schrieb T:

> My wife decided against an iPad whtn she found she could
> not run TOR and such on it. She also dos not like
> the extra gestures.
>
> I could not find who told me that -- I think it was
> Wally -- to thank him. So thank you.
>
> She found a Samsung app that runs a hearing test
> to customer configure the sound for her. And she
> likes the idea

What about "Open Source"?
Samsung? Not really?

But your wife is happy and that's what counts.

[Arno Welzel]

T, 2023-10-30 02:23:

> On 10/29/23 07:28, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> But it is only available or a limited number of devices and only
>> preinstalled on devices by Murena.
>
>
> I am only seeing phone on their web site, no tablets.
> I could have missed them

There is no tablet by Murena.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

[Stan Brown]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 21:20:42 -0400, Wally J wrote:
> (5) I think that's just super dead wrong, Stan, and I wish you were
> correct - because I hate the fact Android has only 1 contacts db.

Android may, I don't know. But on my phone (Samsung
Galaxy A54, Android 13) between Samsung's app and
Google's app there are different databases. I know this
because:

a) Shortly after importing, I changed a phone number in
a contact in Google's app, and the change was not
picked up in Samsung's app.

b) Google's app offered to merge the two contacts
lists. BTW, when I accepted it sometimes used its
version (synched from my old phone), sometimes used
Samsung's version, and sometimes used both. I spent a
morning cleaning up that mess.

c) I changed a phone number in Google's app, and
Samsung's app still showed the old number.