Can I watch the superbowl free on Android or Windows this Sunday?

[Gelato]

How can I watch the Superbowl in real time for free on Android or Windows?

Ads are ok. But no login is desired. Certainly no credit card
for "trial offers" that I then have to beg them to decline
(and they already got what they wanted which is your data).

I don't have a TV nor am I going to put an antenna on my roof, so the
question is about real time watching of the Superbowl over the net.

Any suggestions?

[Big Al]

It's on CBS which is Paramount+ if you have a subscription to that service.

Or just buy this https://www.newegg.com/p/16R-06F0-000E9 (or similar) and plug into your TV. The
old conventional TV antenna setup without the rooftop.

If you want it on the phone/PC then you'd need a tuner card or usb device and a quick browse shows
those things a bit pricey.
--
Linux Mint 21.3 Cinnamon 6.0.4
Al

[Gelato]

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 08:22:45 -0500, Big Al wrote:

> It's on CBS which is Paramount+ if you have a subscription to that service.

Thanks for that suggestion of watching the Superbowl from a phone or PC.
I do not have any subscriptions to anything.

I just want to watch the Superbowl over the Internet on a phone or PC.
What I'm looking for, I think, is simply a web site that will show it.

> Or just buy this https://www.newegg.com/p/16R-06F0-000E9 (or similar)
> and plug into your TV.

What TV?

> The old conventional TV antenna setup without the rooftop.

I'd have to buy a TV just to hook up that conventional TV antenna.

> If you want it on the phone/PC then you'd need a tuner card
> or usb device and a quick browse shows those things a bit pricey.

I'm aware of tuners that feed into a PC as I had them in the past.
I've never owned a TV since about 30 years ago when I gave
up on the "violence" so my young children (at that time) wouldn't
have to see constant violence. I never looked back & don't own a TV.

I also don't own *any* subscriptions whatsoever.
And I'm not going to subscribe now. Never do I need it.

I did subscribe, about a decade ago, to NetFlix when it had the DVDs.
But when they screwed us on the pricing, I vowed to never look back.

My wife does have an Amazon Prime though, for the free shipping.
(I've never used the Amazon Prime video feature and neither has she.)

Do you think the Superbowl will be on Amazon Prime?

Is there any way to watch the Superbowl from a phone or PC
without having to subscribe with a credit card to something?

[Paul]

The timing looks a little tight, for a planning exercise.

If you needed materials, the "Fedex overnight" might be a bit tight.

For an antenna project, a minimum 30 days lead time is recommended.
Same goes with tuners, might have to get a used tuner off Ebay.

*******

You can put an antenna in the loft, if you dislike climbing on the roof.
For a shingled wood-framed house, the loss is about 6dB. If the antenna is 15dBi,
the net improvement is 9. There is a website, which gives vector and
signal strength, if you give lat and long and height. and then you can tell if
your loft might magically align with the major axis of your new Yagi.

https://www.amazon.com/Long-Range-UHF-Element-Antenna/dp/B01BP4RF3O

You can get slightly more gain, if your Yagi is cut for a single frequency.

For the cottage in the country back home, although the distance is
prohibitive, the signal might bounce off the ocean a couple times,
and the range increases. The only problem with "tricksy" stuff
like that, is when a large vessel travels in the channel, it
can actually knock out TV until it is out of sight.

*******

The problem with tuner cards, is when the silicon goes out of production,
there's a scramble to find a replacement. The card below is on its third chipset.
And as for "disti", you might have to buy such a thing from the website
of the manufacturer (these guys might physically be Singapore).

https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_hvr1265.html#specs

OTA TV these days, is a pretty "arcane" topic :-) Even when I acquired
a couple items, the writing was already on the wall back then. I don't
watch OTA TV any more... but I have the kit for it.

Paul

[MajorLanGod]

Gelato <gelato@.is.invalid> wrote in
news:uq8j10$6bb$1...@rasp.pasdenom.info:

I use PadTV on my android tablet, but you won't be able to get it by
tomorrow.

[kelown]

> I just want to watch the Superbowl over the Internet on a phone or PC.
> What I'm looking for, I think, is simply a web site that will show it.
>
>> Or just buy this https://www.newegg.com/p/16R-06F0-000E9 (or similar)
>> and plug into your TV.
>
> What TV?

Those flat 12"x12" indoor TV antennas that you can tape to your window
work surprisingly well. And they're much cheaper on eBay.

You could use it with a USB Android/Windows TV tuner stick, if you had
prepared earlier.
$27.97/Amazon - Mygica A681B Analog USB HDTV Tuner stick +
Windows/Android TV tuner software (PadTV).
https://bit.ly/3SSXMEa

> I've never owned a TV since about 30 years ago when I gave
> up on the "violence" so my young children (at that time) wouldn't
> have to see constant violence. I never looked back & don't own a TV.

USB TV tuner hardware is completely portable and detachable.

[Andrew]

MajorLanGod wrote on Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:49:26 GMT :

>> Is there any way to watch the Superbowl from a phone or PC
>> without having to subscribe with a credit card to something?
>>
>
> I use PadTV on my android tablet, but you won't be able to get it by
> tomorrow.

I just tested this for the OP and it "might" work tomorrow for him.
https://i.postimg.cc/5tRYTmZ1/superbowl.jpg

1. I installed the CBS Sports app off the Google Play Store.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.handmark.sportcaster

2. When I ran it the first time, it asked me to create a login
using my email address, asking me my DOB and other private stuff.

3. Without adding any of that information, I closed the app down
and I restarted the app and now it let me in without credentials.

Then there's a button on top to select the "Superbowl LVIII" channel.
And a button on the bottom to "Watch" what seems like "live" channels.

The strange thing is the audio was all screwed up.
a. Either a video played with no audio.
b. Or the videos played only with audio (and the screen went black).

My phone is set up for privacy, but I've never seen that happen.

I also tried the "CBS News" app which essentially did the same things.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.treemolabs.apps.cbsnews

Maybe someone else can test it out for the OP to see if they concur.
Obviously I have no idea if it will work tomorrow for the Superbowl.

[Paul]

I thought phones were pretty good on compatibility issues.

Your video symptoms sound like something a PC would do :-)

The canned video may be different than what will be streamed
from the site. It might still work.

Paul

[kelown]

>>> Is there any way to watch the Superbowl from a phone or PC
>>> without having to subscribe with a credit card to something?

> I just tested this for the OP and it "might" work tomorrow for him.
> https://i.postimg.cc/5tRYTmZ1/superbowl.jpg
>
> 1. I installed the CBS Sports app off the Google Play Store.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.handmark.sportcaster
>
> 2. When I ran it the first time, it asked me to create a login
> using my email address, asking me my DOB and other private stuff.
>
> 3. Without adding any of that information, I closed the app down
> and I restarted the app and now it let me in without credentials.
>
> Then there's a button on top to select the "Superbowl LVIII" channel.
> And a button on the bottom to "Watch" what seems like "live" channels.
>
> The strange thing is the audio was all screwed up.
> a. Either a video played with no audio.
> b. Or the videos played only with audio (and the screen went black).

Date: Sunday, Feb. 11
Time: 6:30 p.m. ET
TV: CBS, Nickelodeon
Stream: Available via Paramount+ on all platforms, or sign in with your
TV provider on CBS.com or CBS Sports apps

After Play Store installation of CBS Sports App on my Samsung S10
(Android 12):
* Pressed the "Continue" button to skip login.
* All videos were muted by default. Pressed the video screen to expose
the speaker icon, then pressed that icon to unmute.
* No problems with playing audio with live video with the CBS Sports App
on my smartphone.

Installed from Play Store via Windows 10 Bluestacks App Player emulator:
* Pressed the "Continue" button to skip login.
* All videos were muted by default, etc.
* No audio lag with live video, played just as smoothly as smartphone.

Installed from Play Store via Windows 10 Nox emulator:
* Pressed the "Continue" button to skip login.
* All videos were muted by default, etc.
* Some audio lag with live video, otherwise OK.

[Newyana2]

"Gelato" <gelato@.is.invalid> wrote

| Ads are ok. But no login is desired. Certainly no credit card
| for "trial offers" that I then have to beg them to decline
| (and they already got what they wanted which is your data).
|
| I don't have a TV nor am I going to put an antenna on my roof, so the
| question is about real time watching of the Superbowl over the net.
|
| Any suggestions?

Did you try just going to cbs.com? That should work, though I
don't know about what signup involves.

I'd also suggest reconsidering TVs. A $10 antenna might or might not
work at your house, but you can get a decent TV for about $100.
We have two, both hooked up for streaming. One's connected to
Win7, the other to a Raspberry Pi 4, via HDMI.

There are lots of movies that you
can download from archive.org. There are TV shows and concerts that
you can get from youtube with a downloader program like youtube-dl
or 3dyd. If you join PBS you get free access to all of their shows. If
you have a good library they'll have DVDs and possibly provide access
to Hoopla and/or Kanopy videos. We get all that, plus a Netflix
subscription for $10/month. And we watch it all on a nice, clear, 32" TV
that cost $100. No Internet hookup on the TV.

I think the current minimum cost for Netflix is $15. Expensive? For me
it's less than one theater ticket. And these days most theaters are sleazy
chains, showing ads before the movie and overcrowded.

I don't think Netflix can afford to go much
cheaper. Though I do wonder about their strategy. They paid something
like $100 million for the old reruns of that crap TV show Friends.
Friends seems to be on almost every OTA TV station. Yet Netflix
bought it! I half expect them to pay $50 million for the Beverly
Hillbillies. Then that becomes part of their cost. And now they've bought
rights to wrestling. Wrestling! I suppose it's like the networks: Once
they become that big they cater to the mainstream as much as
possible. It's the same reason that the bestselling beers taste like
stale soda. If they were actually well made beers then most people
wouldn't like them.

Of course, you can use your cellphone, as kelown suggested. But
then you also have to figure in the cost of a microscope and a stiff
neck to actually see the game. Otherwise it's like Charlie Chaplin's
flea circus. They claim it's the Super Bowl, but how would you
know for sure? :)

Netflix gets worse by the month. Much of what they have is crap,
or aimed at teenagers. I used to order the DVDs and they had virtually
every movie made. Those days are over. It's not their fault. Companies
like Apple, HBO, etc don't want to share. For now, each streamer is
trying to create a must-have show that will push you to buy their
service.

With Amazon you can get just about anything, but at a steep cost.
Prime costs a bundle. Then most of the newer shows cost -- up to $20+!
I have a friend who spends over $300/month to be able to watch
whatever she feels like watching. Plus, Amazon is sleazy. I avoid
them altogether.

Amazon is like CVS/Walgreens or Home Depot/Lowes --
If you dump your local, privately owned store merely over price then
there'll be nothing left but chains. Then the chains jack up their
prices and you have no choice but to go along. It happens over
and over, but people don't learn. Amazon does the same online,
forcing retailers to charge at least as much at their own websites
as they do on Amazon. Eventually, Amazon could own retail and
you won't be able to buy from elsewhere.

[Andrew]

kelown wrote on Sun, 11 Feb 2024 04:48:45 -0600 :

> Stream: Available via Paramount+ on all platforms, or sign in with your
> TV provider on CBS.com or CBS Sports apps

My phone is set up to disallow paying for anything so I tried
Paramount safely, and as expected, it refused to allow me to pay.
https://i.postimg.cc/FRQnr4VN/paramount.jpg

Even so, that's my most straightforward suggestion for the OP.
He can sign up and then cancel & ask for his data to be removed.

> * Pressed the "Continue" button to skip login.

I had not seen that "Continue" button so thanks for finding it for us.
https://i.postimg.cc/fT1SFTv2/cbslogin.jpg

I noticed it doesn't check the email you give it because I always give an
app a bogus email address, but I accidentally gave it an address that
existed at first, but then I made it more random and it doesn't verify.

So the OP and anyone else can either skip the login information or give it
bogus login information and it will let you log in if that matters at all.

> * All videos were muted by default. Pressed the video screen to expose
> the speaker icon, then pressed that icon to unmute.

For some reason I never saw (and still don't see) that speaker icon.

But your tests gave me the confidence to fiddle around and at some point
in the CBS Sports app fiddling with it finally turned the video audio on.

It's weird that it has the video muted at the start though. Why do that?

Until you responded, I had figured it was something wrong on my phone.
So I'm happy you solved that mystery that it's not just me. It's everyone.

What's unusual though is I can't STOP (pause) the video once it plays.
But maybe that's a function of the fact that I can't find the controls.

From the looks of the CBS Sports app, it "appears" that it will play the
superbowl later on today, but it's really up to the OP to figure that out.

[Newyana2]

"Peter" <conf...@nospam.net> wrote

|
| How tall is your monitor screen? A foot? A foot and a half? How tall?
| That's how tall your Android phone will be when mirrored onto it.
|

So you're watching on a cellphone that's sent to a computer monitor?
That's better than just a cellphone. You can watch with just binoculars. :)
My TV is 32".

[Kelce]

<https://youtu.be/jQ1l5zenaKY?si=CgAvIbwua9oIaTah>

[Gelato]

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:50:00 -0600, kelown wrote:

>> What TV?
>
> Those flat 12"x12" indoor TV antennas that you can tape to your window
> work surprisingly well. And they're much cheaper on eBay.

Thanks for all the help and advice. The CBS apps never worked.

I watched it by joining a Paramount+ plan but now I have to figure out how
to unsubscribe. I don't even know what that unsubscription process is.

But I got two games out of the deal, even as my favorite team lost.

[kelown]

> So you're watching on a cellphone that's sent to a computer monitor?
> That's better than just a cellphone. You can watch with just binoculars. :)
> My TV is 32".

If your 32" TV has an HDMI input port, you can connect an Android TV box
and install apps from the Google Play Store or directly install app
APKs. The experience is like having an Android on your full widescreen TV.

Ugoos X4Q Plus Android TV box/$104.99 - Android 11, 4GB RAM/64GB storage
https://is.gd/CfVkL5

[Patrick]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 23:01:11 -0600, kelown wrote:
> If your 32" TV has an HDMI input port, you can connect an Android TV box
> and install apps from the Google Play Store or directly install app
> APKs. The experience is like having an Android on your full widescreen TV.

You can also install Android apps directly over Wi-Fi for free.

All you do is mirroring Android onto Windows over your Wi-Fi and grab an
APK in the Windows File Explorer GUI with your mouse and slide that Android
APK from Windows file system onto the mirrored image of Android on the PC.

You can install fifty APKs at a time that way.
I do it all the time when I set up a new phone.

Cost = $0

[Gelato]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 23:09:58 -0500, Gelato wrote:

>> Those flat 12"x12" indoor TV antennas that you can tape to your window
>> work surprisingly well. And they're much cheaper on eBay.
>
> Thanks for all the help and advice. The CBS apps never worked.
>
> I watched it by joining a Paramount+ plan but now I have to figure out how
> to unsubscribe. I don't even know what that unsubscription process is.
>
> But I got two games out of the deal, even as my favorite team lost.

I gave the account information to three people, two of which used it
to watch the entire Superbowl so one account allowed multiple users.

After the overtime, I unsubscribed. It was easy to unsubscribe after I went
to the accounts page and down near the bottom was an unsubscribe button.

It tried to talk me into "one month free" if I didn't unsubscribe.
And when I did unsubscribe, it said I could still use it until the 18th.

One problem I had with Chrome is the memory filled up where it crashed at
about 2500 Megabytes according to the Memory Hogs program .

What would happen is the game would play about ten or fifteen minutes and
the memory for the highest Chrome process would climb from about 600MB to
about 1500 MB and then the whole thing would die saying "Aw. Snap!" and
then "Something went wrong while displaying this webpage" and then
"Error code: Out of Memory" (even though it's a 16GB desktop PC).

It would come back again though if I reloaded.
Wiping out the cache and cookies didn't seem to make any difference.

Of course, they have my confidential name & address & credit card & email.
Other than that, Paramount+ displayed the Superbowl fine, for free.
Thanks.

[Paul]

On 2/12/2024 3:01 AM, Joerg Walther wrote:

> Gelato wrote:
>
>> What would happen is the game would play about ten or fifteen minutes and
>> the memory for the highest Chrome process would climb from about 600MB to
>> about 1500 MB
>

> This is a general problem with Chrome/Chromium not only in Windows but
> also in Linux: It does not throw away the streaming data once it has
> been displayed but keeps it until the system's RAM is full, resulting in
> crashes.
>
> -jw-
>

There could be a WideVine module loaded as well, for playback.

Paul

[Newyana2]

"Peter" <conf...@nospam.net> wrote
|
| My logic would be that you can see your PC screen today, so when your
phone
| takes up that same PC screen, why would it be any harder for you to see?
|

I see. But if you have a computer and monitor, you don't
need to get the video on a cellphone. You can just
use a browser.

[Newyana2]

"kelown" <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote

| If your 32" TV has an HDMI input port, you can connect an Android TV box
| and install apps from the Google Play Store or directly install app
| APKs. The experience is like having an Android on your full widescreen TV.
|

I didn't know about those, but I also don't see the point. What
value is there in Android? I have an Android cellphone and I've
had to deal with constant hassles of Google trying to make me
connect to their crap. I don't install apps.

I have Win7 feeding into one TV and an RPi4 going into the
other. That allows me to stream any service through a browser.
I can also download movies from archive.org or videos from
youtube, then play those in a video player piped to the TV.
Why in the world would I want to buy a new, superfluous
device, infested by the worst spyware company in the world?
Why would I want APKs? Apps for companies like CBS are
simply more spyware, bypassing the relative privacy of the
browser. One of the advantages of the setup I use is that I
don't need a "smart" device, don't need anyone's "app", and
don't need to allow the TV to connect online.

Maybe you're playing Android games? I can't think of any
other reason why you'd want the ATVbox when you already
have Windows. But it's interesting to know about. The Internet
started out as the "information superhighway" where anything
could be accessed through a browser. Now I wonder how many
people like you there are, accustomed to using a cellphone,
and seeing the Internet as merely a selection of commercial
services to run on their kiosk device.

[Frank Slootweg]

Newyana2 <Newy...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "kelown" <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote
>
> | If your 32" TV has an HDMI input port, you can connect an Android TV box
> | and install apps from the Google Play Store or directly install app
> | APKs. The experience is like having an Android on your full widescreen TV.
> |
>
> I didn't know about those, but I also don't see the point. What
> value is there in Android? I have an Android cellphone and I've
> had to deal with constant hassles of Google trying to make me
> connect to their crap. I don't install apps.

Without an account, it's a tad hard for Google to "make you connect
connect to their crap", but let's not stray from the issue at hand.
(Do you use factory-installed apps? *Why* do you have a smartphone, if
you dislike it/Google so much?)

> I have Win7 feeding into one TV and an RPi4 going into the
> other. That allows me to stream any service through a browser.
> I can also download movies from archive.org or videos from
> youtube, then play those in a video player piped to the TV.
> Why in the world would I want to buy a new, superfluous
> device, infested by the worst spyware company in the world?

Well, Google isn't spying on me. Microsoft isn't spying on me. Meta
isn't spying on me. Etc., etc..

Why is Google spying on you, while - I assume/hope - Microsoft isn't?
Maybe because you do know how to manage/use a Windows machine, but can't
be bothered to learn how to manage/use an Android device, while
continously ranting how bad/evil they are?

> Why would I want APKs? Apps for companies like CBS are
> simply more spyware, bypassing the relative privacy of the
> browser.

Obviously don't know about CBS, but my experience with company
specific apps is quite good. No "spyware" or privacy isues at all.

And smartphones/tablets do have browsers as well. And they can
connect/stream to a TV, so no difference there, just a *different*
platform.

> One of the advantages of the setup I use is that I
> don't need a "smart" device, don't need anyone's "app", and
> don't need to allow the TV to connect online.
>
> Maybe you're playing Android games? I can't think of any
> other reason why you'd want the ATVbox when you already
> have Windows. But it's interesting to know about.

Some streaming services are not available in a browser (or have bad
performance in a browser) and have no Windows program/'app', so if
someone wants to use those streaming services, they have to use other
devices. (And they *can* do so quite safely without any "spyware", thank
you very much.)

> The Internet
> started out as the "information superhighway" where anything
> could be accessed through a browser. Now I wonder how many
> people like you there are, accustomed to using a cellphone,
> and seeing the Internet as merely a selection of commercial
> services to run on their kiosk device.

Don't be so patronizing! He's not talking about a cellphone and is
often posting in Windows groups, so feel free to come off your high
horse.

What you do for yourself is of course fine, but please drop your habit
of patronizing others for *their* choices.

FYI: No, I don't have an Android TV box, but yes, I do use apps on my
mobile phone to stream third party content to my TV, i.e. I do not use
my Windows computer for that. I hope that's OK with you.

[kelown]

> | If your 32" TV has an HDMI input port, you can connect an Android TV box
> | and install apps from the Google Play Store or directly install app
> | APKs. The experience is like having an Android on your full widescreen TV.
> |
>
> I didn't know about those, but I also don't see the point. What
> value is there in Android? I have an Android cellphone and I've
> had to deal with constant hassles of Google trying to make me
> connect to their crap. I don't install apps.

You come across as too paranoid about Android and too inexperienced with
it to engage in a meaningful discussion about it.

> Why in the world would I want to buy a new, superfluous
> device, infested by the worst spyware company in the world?
> Why would I want APKs? Apps for companies like CBS are
> simply more spyware, bypassing the relative privacy of the
> browser.

You're making a lot of unproven claims about a product you don't use.

> Maybe you're playing Android games? I can't think of any
> other reason why you'd want the ATVbox when you already
> have Windows.

I use the Android TV box to display Android apps on a much larger
screen. I use an Android emulator to use Android apps on my Windows 10
laptop. There's a lot of software that's available on Android and not on
Windows, especially apps intended for portable entertainment.

[Newyana2]

"kelown" <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote

| You come across as too paranoid about Android and too inexperienced with
| it to engage in a meaningful discussion about it.
|

| You're making a lot of unproven claims about a product you don't use.

| I use the Android TV box to display Android apps on a much larger
| screen. I use an Android emulator to use Android apps on my Windows 10
| laptop. There's a lot of software that's available on Android and not on
| Windows, especially apps intended for portable entertainment.

Your thinking is understandable. I wouldn't expect anyone who
uses Google products to understand or care about privacy issues.
The problem is that Gelato cross-posted between Win10 and Android,
while his question really wasn't specific to either one.

You're also right that I don't know much about Android. I have
a cellphone that I mostly use only for occasional phone calls, with
everything Googlitish disabled as much as possible. (Paranoid? If
not wanting to wear a tracking collar is paranoid then, yes, I guess
I am.)

I don't do any sort of "portable entertainment". (I assume by that
you mean games.) I don't carry a laptop or tablet around with me.
For movie streaming I use "any old computer" with a browser -- as
it happens, a Win7 box and a Pi4.

I actually didn't know about the Android emulator, or that there
might be anything on Android that people want. That's interesting.
When I looked it up I discovered a whole world of people discussing
and using emulators on Windows.

I use a computer mainly for software development, web design,
graphics editing, web browsing, practical tasks like taxes, email and
general online research, as well as streaming Netflix, etc. I've never
actually played a game on a computer.

I suppose I could install an Android emulator and turn my 27" monitor
into a flashlight.... Nah. :)

[Andrew]

kelown wrote on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 12:30:40 -0600 :

> There's a lot of software that's available on Android and not on
> Windows, especially apps intended for portable entertainment.

An example of software on Android not on Windows is a non-Google FOSS
privacy aware YouTube client which Android has but no other platform does.

[Andrew]

Newyana2 wrote on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 15:24:44 -0500 :

> I use a computer mainly for software development, web design,
> graphics editing, web browsing, practical tasks like taxes, email and
> general online research, as well as streaming Netflix, etc. I've never
> actually played a game on a computer.

All of those things are probably better done on a PC, although streaming
may have portable needs so it would have to be a laptop PC for that.

> I suppose I could install an Android emulator and turn my 27" monitor
> into a flashlight.... Nah. :)

Do you ever do graphical Wi-Fi debugging? Android excels at that.

[Newyana2]

"Andrew" <and...@spam.net> wrote

| All of those things are probably better done on a PC, although streaming
| may have portable needs so it would have to be a laptop PC for that.
|

I don't really do anything portable, except a phone call once
a month or so. I don't like the ergonomics of laptops and have
no need to carry one around.

| > I suppose I could install an Android emulator and turn my 27" monitor
| > into a flashlight.... Nah. :)
|
| Do you ever do graphical Wi-Fi debugging? Android excels at that.

I'm not sure I know what that means. Wifi debugging? I generally
don't use wifi at all. We have several Windows computers and an RPi4
here. They're all hardwired. The house is old, with forced-hot-air
heat, so it was easy to run ethernet outlets to offices and bedrooms.

I am a bit curious, though. I assume people run Android apps on
Windows for game variety. Is there any other possible purpose?
I don't even use Microsoft's Metro/RT apps on Windows, since they're
mostly just trinkets. I can see the point of something like Waze or
a plant ID app on a cellphone. I can't see how such applets would be
useful on a Desktop computer.

You mentioned in your other post about a private youtube client
for Android, but there are a number of youtube downloaders for
Windows. If I want to watch a youtube video, I download it. So
once again, I don't see where I might use an Android app.

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 12:30:40 -0600, kelown <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>I use the Android TV box to display Android apps on a much larger
>screen. I use an Android emulator to use Android apps on my Windows 10
>laptop. There's a lot of software that's available on Android and not on
>Windows, especially apps intended for portable entertainment.

Which Android emulator do you like to use with Windows?

[Andrew]

Newyana2 wrote on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:00:47 -0500 :

>| Do you ever do graphical Wi-Fi debugging? Android excels at that.
>
> I'm not sure I know what that means. Wifi debugging? I generally
> don't use wifi at all. We have several Windows computers and an RPi4
> here. They're all hardwired. The house is old, with forced-hot-air
> heat, so it was easy to run ethernet outlets to offices and bedrooms.

If you're all Ethernet then Wi-Fi isn't your thing but lots of people use
Wi-Fi at home or elsewhere and it's nice to have excellent debugger apps.

They also debug cellular and they debug Windows networks on the LAN, but
there are Windows scan tools for the debugging of Windows networks such as
zenmap, portscan, ipscanner, nmap and the like.

> I am a bit curious, though. I assume people run Android apps on
> Windows for game variety. Is there any other possible purpose?

Kids play games for sure, but I use the phone and Windows sort of like how
NATO uses combined arms. They always go together. Never alone.

They help each other. You don't use one without the other and you use one
to shore up where the other is weak. They're always one and the same unit.

They complement each other.

Where Windows is strong, for example, is the display, sound, mouse and
keyboard, so that's why you manage your Android phone from a Windows PC.

Where Android is strong is in mapping and routing and sensing (e.g.,
compass, altimeters, pressure, protractor, etc) and timing (stopwatches,
sand timers, alarms, etc) and surprisingly, it's almost always a lot easier
to set up servers (such as WebDAV servers) on Android than on Windows.

> I don't even use Microsoft's Metro/RT apps on Windows, since they're
> mostly just trinkets.

Neither do I, as I too don't even have a Microsoft MSA account to use them.
Nor do I have a Google Account to use Android. They're never needed.

> I can see the point of something like Waze or a plant ID app on a cellphone.

I think we've discussed plant ID apps (e.g., Cornell) in the past, so
that's another place where Android shines over Windows (camera input).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.plantnet
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.inaturalist.seek
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.floraincognita.app.floraincognita

> I can't see how such applets would be useful on a Desktop computer.

There are some things that are mostly only useful on Android that aren't
even on desktop PCs such as GPS spoofing apps which often are useful
particularly with sites that use ip address location blackouts.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fake.gps.location.changer.spoof.location
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bomerapps.movablemockgps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.foxbytecode.gpslocker

> You mentioned in your other post about a private youtube client
> for Android, but there are a number of youtube downloaders for
> Windows. If I want to watch a youtube video, I download it. So
> once again, I don't see where I might use an Android app.

Nothing wrong with ClipGrab or YTD Video Downloader on Windows to download
and rip YouTube videos and there's nothing wrong with using something like
QMPlay2 on Windows to play a series of YouTube URLs in any sequence.

But I haven't yet found a program on Windows that does anything even close
to what NewPipe on Android does for the overall YouTube user experience.
https://newpipe.net/

If I had to name the one most useful functionality on Android that Windows
completely lacks, it's that. Even the freeware folks can't find one.

[Newyana2]

"Andrew" <and...@spam.net> wrote

|
| Nothing wrong with ClipGrab or YTD Video Downloader on Windows to download
| and rip YouTube videos and there's nothing wrong with using something like
| QMPlay2 on Windows to play a series of YouTube URLs in any sequence.
|
| But I haven't yet found a program on Windows that does anything even close
| to what NewPipe on Android does for the overall YouTube user experience.
| https://newpipe.net/
|
| If I had to name the one most useful functionality on Android that Windows
| completely lacks, it's that. Even the freeware folks can't find one.

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I guess it's a matter of
usage profiles. None of what you list is of interest to me.
I wouldn't watch youtube videos at all if I can't download them.
I did try watching movies on there, once. The ads intruded with
no relation to the movie scenes. It was unwatchable. But mostly
I just watch several streaming sources, anyway. And of those,
Netflix is the only one I have to pay for. Tonight we watched
an old Clark Gable movie, "It Happened One Night", downloaaded
from archive.org.

[Peter parker]

Free options:

NFL Mobile app: While the live stream wasn't free for everyone, the NFL Mobile app offers free highlights, NFL Network programming, and replays of select games after a short delay.
YouTube highlights: Many channels upload highlights and recaps of the Super Bowl on YouTube shortly after the game.
Social media: Teams and the NFL often share short clips and highlights on their social media pages.
Paid options:

NFL Game Pass: This subscription service offers replays of all NFL games, including the Super Bowl, as well as other exclusive content.
Streaming services with NBC: Services like Hulu + Live TV, YouTube TV, and FuboTV offer NBC, which broadcasted the Super Bowl, so you could watch replays or highlights on demand with a subscription.
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[kelown]

> I don't do any sort of "portable entertainment". (I assume by that
> you mean games.) I don't carry a laptop or tablet around with me.
> For movie streaming I use "any old computer" with a browser -- as
> it happens, a Win7 box and a Pi4.
>
> I actually didn't know about the Android emulator, or that there
> might be anything on Android that people want.

* I use Google Keep to save notes bidirectionally between my Android and
Windows laptop.
* I use Android Link to Windows to copy/paste text bidirectionally
between my Android and Windows laptop.
* I use Android app grocery list while shopping.
* I use Google Maps to give me real-time vocal and visual directions
while driving.
* I use Android app to inform me when a police radar or red light camera
is nearby while driving.
* I use Android app to remember where I parked my car.
* Occasionally use Android app to keep track of city bus schedules when
using public transportation.
* I play games on my Android while waiting in public spaces.
* I use Android app to pay for apartment laundry machines.
* I use Android or Windows app to connect my otoscope for visually
cleaning my ears while watching on a screen.
* I use Android app to connect to my Bluetooth blood pressure monitor to
keep track of my readings for my doctor.
* I use Android app to control my WiFi robot vacuum.
* I use Android app as a magnifying glass via camera.
* I use Android apps to play Internet radio stations while at the gym.
* I use Android apps to watch TV shows on my smartphone, Android TV box,
and my PC emulator.

[kelown]

>> I use the Android TV box to display Android apps on a much larger
>> screen. I use an Android emulator to use Android apps on my Windows 10
>> laptop. There's a lot of software that's available on Android and not on
>> Windows, especially apps intended for portable entertainment.
>
> Which Android emulator do you like to use with Windows?

I like both the Nox emulator and the Bluestacks emulator on my Windows
10. I slightly prefer Nox because it starts faster and is a bit easier
to setup and use. Nox emulates Samsung Galaxy S8, SM-G955N, Android 7
(among others). Bluestacks emulates OnePlus 3T, A3010, Android 6.0.1
(among others). Those support specs might have changed since I last updated.

After installing the CBS Sports App on both emulators yesterday, I
noticed Nox had some audio lag on the CBS football preview video.
Bluestacks had none. But that might have had to do with the way I
allocated memory to each emulator. Normally Nox runs fine.

[Char Jackson]

Excellent, thank you. I'll check out both of them.

[Newyana2]

"kelown" <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote

| * I use Google Keep to save notes bidirectionally between my Android and
| Windows laptop.
| * I use Android Link to Windows to copy/paste text bidirectionally
| between my Android and Windows laptop.
| * I use Android app grocery list while shopping.
| * I use Google Maps to give me real-time vocal and visual directions
| while driving.
| * I use Android app to inform me when a police radar or red light camera
| is nearby while driving.
| * I use Android app to remember where I parked my car.
| * Occasionally use Android app to keep track of city bus schedules when
| using public transportation.
| * I play games on my Android while waiting in public spaces.
| * I use Android app to pay for apartment laundry machines.
| * I use Android or Windows app to connect my otoscope for visually
| cleaning my ears while watching on a screen.
| * I use Android app to connect to my Bluetooth blood pressure monitor to
| keep track of my readings for my doctor.
| * I use Android app to control my WiFi robot vacuum.
| * I use Android app as a magnifying glass via camera.
| * I use Android apps to play Internet radio stations while at the gym.
| * I use Android apps to watch TV shows on my smartphone, Android TV box,
| and my PC emulator.

Thanks. It's interesting to see how different people use
devices. I often wish I could look over peoples' shoulders
to see what they're doing on their cellphones. (Though when I
do get a peek it seems to usually be fast scrolling through
something... Twitter? Instagram? Many people seem to spend much
of their time in virtual clicque conversations, offering each other
jokes and photos in a steady stream.

Most of what you list here are cellphone activities. It looks
like the only functions that might call for apps on Windows are
the transfer of text/notes between devices. But I can see how
the Android emulator gives you a sense of fluidity -- that
there isn't a communication barrier between the two devices.

I don't generally do any of the things that you list. I do
make shopping lists, but I use a "pentadigit computer", which
consists of a hand, a pencil, and a pad of 3x5 paper. In fact,
that also serves to provide my weekly calendar "app". :)

From what I've seen, I think you're by far more normal than
I am. The iPhone was invented only about 15 years ago. Android
came later. Yet we're fast approaching a time where most
interaction is digital and cellphones act as a personal interface
to society. I expect one of these days I'll be arrested for not
having a cellphone to surrender to an "officer of the peace".

[Frank Slootweg]

Newyana2 <Newy...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "kelown" <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote
>
> | You come across as too paranoid about Android and too inexperienced with
> | it to engage in a meaningful discussion about it.
> |
> | You're making a lot of unproven claims about a product you don't use.
>
> | I use the Android TV box to display Android apps on a much larger
> | screen. I use an Android emulator to use Android apps on my Windows 10
> | laptop. There's a lot of software that's available on Android and not on
> | Windows, especially apps intended for portable entertainment.
>
> Your thinking is understandable. I wouldn't expect anyone who
> uses Google products to understand or care about privacy issues.

Sigh!

Why do you insist on uttering such condescending, patronizing,
uninformed, unsubstantiated, obnoxious, pompous twattery on stuff you
know little to nothing about and about products you don't/hardly even
use!?

kelown essentially said the same thing. Wonder why that is?

Take your fingers out of your ears and open your closed eyes. That you
silently *ignore* counter arguments (see my earlier response [1] in this
thread), does not mean they were not *given*.

Some repeats:

[Repeat:]

Well, Google isn't spying on me. Microsoft isn't spying on me. Meta
isn't spying on me. Etc., etc..

Why is Google spying on you, while - I assume/hope - Microsoft isn't?
Maybe because you do know how to manage/use a Windows machine, but can't
be bothered to learn how to manage/use an Android device, while
continously ranting how bad/evil they are?

...

Obviously don't know about CBS, but my experience with company

specific apps is quite good. No "spyware" or privacy issues at all.

[End repeat.]

Read my lips: 'No "spyware" or privacy issues at all.'

Moral: You can *read* all the FUD, urban legends and other nonsense
you like, but when you *spout* it in an audience where people *do* know
what they're talking about, be prepared for the response(s).

[...]

[1] Message-ID: <uqdjk4...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

[Andrew]

Newyana2 wrote on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 22:49:09 -0500 :

>| Nothing wrong with ClipGrab or YTD Video Downloader on Windows to download
>| and rip YouTube videos and there's nothing wrong with using something like
>| QMPlay2 on Windows to play a series of YouTube URLs in any sequence.
>|
>| But I haven't yet found a program on Windows that does anything even close
>| to what NewPipe on Android does for the overall YouTube user experience.
>| https://newpipe.net/
>|
>| If I had to name the one most useful functionality on Android that Windows
>| completely lacks, it's that. Even the freeware folks can't find one.
>
> I see. Thanks for the explanation. I guess it's a matter of
> usage profiles. None of what you list is of interest to me.

I HAVE TO SPLIT THIS INTO MULTIPLE POSTS AS MY SERVER
WON'T ALLOW LONG MESSAGES APPARENTLY.

While you don't need a phone all that much, most of us use it a lot.
And kids use it even more than we do as most of us old men don't
need X (formerly known as Twitter); but our kids swear by that stuff.

But for me, the phone is an extension of Windows (and Windows is an
extension of the phone) where they're always used together & not alone when
I'm at home.

Of course when I'm on the road, that's where the utility of the phone
shines but at home, it's like having a third monitor for the Windows PC
that does stuff that the first two monitors don't necessarily do.

Or, more importantly, some things are just done better on the phone, for
reasons unknown to me (like text to speech & speech to text translations).

I especially like the speech-to-wav file tools on Android where I can make
my own custom notifications and alarms - where I'm sure the freeware folks
can find such things on Windows - but they're abundant on Android already.

[Andrew]

Newyana2 wrote on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 22:49:09 -0500 :

> I wouldn't watch youtube videos at all if I can't download them.

SECOND SPLIT OF THREE BECAUSE OF NEWS SERVER LIMITATIONS

Nothing wrong with yt-dlp (a fork of youtube-dl) and the various GUIs.

But you can't search with them nor can you "subscribe" to a youtube channel
with them for example, where with Newpipe, that's an anonymous
subscription, so there's more to a youtube client than just watching
movies.

Nor do you get privacy by default, although with VPN you can with yt-dlp.

My point is you're looking at only the one feature of "watching" the movie;
but there's more to a youtube client than just the last part that you do.

> I did try watching movies on there, once. The ads intruded with
> no relation to the movie scenes.

Huh? Ads? Yuck. The horror. I never see ads. Seriously. Ads suck.

Since I never see ads, I must be confused by what you mean by "watching on
there" as you should never see an ad in Android or in Windows.

No matter what tool you're using.
If you see an ad, something has gone very wrong.

Certainly not while watching YouTube videos you shouldn't see any Google
inserted ads. You might have seen ads that the commentator himself inserted
though, but a couple of quick taps forwards past those internal ads.

> It was unwatchable. But mostly
> I just watch several streaming sources, anyway.

There's more to a YouTube client than just the final result.
How do you handle subscriptions & comments for example?

> And of those, Netflix is the only one I have to pay for.

Pretty much I suspect anything you really want is on a torrent site.
But let's not go there for this thread since it's about the superbowl.

[rdb]

On 13 Feb 2024, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> posted some news
<news:uqg68f...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>:

> Moral: You can *read* all the FUD, urban legends and other nonsense
> you like, but when you *spout* it in an audience where people *do* know
> what they're talking about, be prepared for the response(s).

Psychologically speaking, it's the exact same attitude that racists have.
They know one thing about something and then apply that one thing to all.
Without any evidence that the one thing that they know applies to all.

Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as Mayayana's.

[Andrew]

Newyana2 wrote on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:51:35 -0500 :

> It's interesting to see how different people use
> devices.

There are basically three use models as I understand them.

1. Kids & younger adults (like up to about 30 years old)
2. Adults (older than about 30 years old)
3. Technocrats (that's most of us)

You think like the #2 group thinks.
But most of us are in the #3 technocrat group.

None of us are kids, so playing games & texting all day (which is what
you're probably seeing people do waiting somewhere in line) & sending MMS
images of just about everything & using maps like their second set of eyes
& being on social media letting everyone know how to find them & basically
using the phone as the main computing device isn't for the #2 or #3 groups.

Most of the #2 group don't do any of that to the degree that the #1 group
does it, but they'll use email and maybe even a few texts and MMS messages
and they'll maybe use Google Maps to get around since it's so nice.

The #3 group is us. We're varied but most of us know the phone inside and
out. We know what it does. We know what it doesn't do. We aren't afraid to
install something. We aren't afraid to delete it. We change our launchers.
We change our default browsers. We don't log into things we don't want to
log into, and none of us ever see an advertisement (otherwise we're in the
#2 group and not a technocrat at all).

There's nothing wrong with any group.
They are what they choose to be.

[Andrew]

Char Jackson wrote on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 01:24:47 -0600 :

>>I like both the Nox emulator and the Bluestacks emulator on my Windows

> Excellent, thank you. I'll check out both of them.

Genymotion t'ain't bad 'neither. The only gotcha is you have to create a
bogus email account (protonmail works) and then register it as personal
use.

[Newyana2]

"Andrew" <and...@spam.net> wrote

| There's more to a YouTube client than just the final result.
| How do you handle subscriptions & comments for example?
|

That's a good point, but for me it's irrelevant. I'm not
interested in either. I think of something I want to see
and search for it. If it turns up on youtube, I download
it. That's it. I don't enable script on Google properties,
so youtube.com no longer works for me. But I don't miss
it.

[Newyana2]

"Andrew" <and...@spam.net> wrote

| There are basically three use models as I understand them.
|
| 1. Kids & younger adults (like up to about 30 years old)
| 2. Adults (older than about 30 years old)
| 3. Technocrats (that's most of us)
|
| You think like the #2 group thinks.
| But most of us are in the #3 technocrat group.
|
| None of us are kids, so playing games & texting all day (which is what
| you're probably seeing people do waiting somewhere in line) & sending MMS
| images of just about everything & using maps like their second set of eyes
| & being on social media letting everyone know how to find them & basically
| using the phone as the main computing device isn't for the #2 or #3
groups.
|
| Most of the #2 group don't do any of that to the degree that the #1 group
| does it, but they'll use email and maybe even a few texts and MMS messages
| and they'll maybe use Google Maps to get around since it's so nice.
|
| The #3 group is us. We're varied but most of us know the phone inside and
| out. We know what it does. We know what it doesn't do. We aren't afraid to
| install something. We aren't afraid to delete it. We change our launchers.
| We change our default browsers. We don't log into things we don't want to
| log into, and none of us ever see an advertisement (otherwise we're in the
| #2 group and not a technocrat at all).

I can believe that the under-30s use cellphones more. But in
my experience most people I know use them almost constantly.
I have friends who want me to call them when I go to their house
because the doorbell is outside of their comfort zone. One friend
who's 75 has his cellphone on the table with him, like his favorite
stuffed bear, whenever we meet for lunch. My neice who's nearly
40 uses it to pay for things, to control locks, call Ubers... For her
it's the place where she meets most functionality in her life.

But you may be right about younger people. They're more dependent
on socializing generally. I've considered the trend to be disturbing.
But it's not only the phones. It's also the social media and the
commercial ownership of the entire venue. On the bright side,
psychologists and teachers are finally coming around and talking about
the widespread addiction with kids. For many years people thought
any screen was educational. Now that's finally beginning to change.

[Carlos E.R.]

Hi, Arlen!

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andrew]

No problem. Everyone has different needs in free software.

Given full-fledged youtube client features add a hellova'lot more than just
what a web browser can do, the one FOSS tool that Android has that I have
never found on Windows yet, is a good FOSS privacy-aware YouTube client.
https://newpipe.net/

Being privacy aware is important because it has to subscribe, for example,
to channels without giving away who you are (it does it anonymously).

It's the one holy grail missing feature (AFAIK) in Microsoft Windows tools.

However, if anyone knows of a FOSS YouTube client for Windows, please let
me know as I've used ClipGrab & YTD Video Downloader (with the underlying
youtube-dl & yt-dlp) but they're just downloaders and I've used QMPlay2
also, but it's just the streaming part.

Anyone know?

Does a Windows FOSS privacy-aware YouTube client exist yet after all these
years?

[Newyana2]

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

| > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
Mayayana's.
|
| Hi, Arlen!
|

That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
to insult you.

[Andrew]

Newyana2 wrote on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 16:24:01 -0500 :

> I can believe that the under-30s use cellphones more.

Those kids are fantastic button pushers.
But they fall for every marketing trick in the book.
Nobody sensitized them.

Most of them didn't grow up in the heady days of the Internet though, so
when they fall for every marketing trick in the book, they fall hard.

Because they have no clue how to keep a computing device private.

You can tell someone has no clue how to use a cellphone by what they do.
1. They log into things (yet, that's almost never needed) and in doing
so they had away their contacts, credit cards, identity, location, etc.
2. They buy apps (if they have to buy an app, they're not competent).
3. They see advertisements (if someone sees an ad, they're not competent)
etc

> But in my experience most people I know use them almost constantly.

Kids (up to about 30) certainly use the phone constantly.
That younger ones grew up with a phone in their hands.

But none of them wired a microprocessor themselves like we all did.
None of them wrote code in assembly language like we all did.
None of them had to piece mime-encoded binaries together like we all did.
etc

> I have friends who want me to call them when I go to their house
> because the doorbell is outside of their comfort zone.

Tell 'em to put a cellphone into the keypad like the one that's on my
1,000-gallon propane tank to automatically tell Amerigas to fill it up. :)

> One friend
> who's 75 has his cellphone on the table with him, like his favorite
> stuffed bear, whenever we meet for lunch. My neice who's nearly
> 40 uses it to pay for things, to control locks, call Ubers... For her
> it's the place where she meets most functionality in her life.

When we were in our younger days, we went to Radio Shack like everyone else
to buy all sorts of breadboards, power supplies and electronic components
to "wire the whole house" via a controller made out of a Comodore 64.

Those days are over (although the Rasberry Pi has picked up that slack).
I remember when Kodak came out with the IR sensor we all scrambled to make
it into a parking indicator - and now those things come with all cars.

Hell, we designed a board to tell us where the campus bus is, on a route,
but we couldn't get the school to fund it - but now they're probably there.

> But you may be right about younger people. They're more dependent
> on socializing generally.

Everything they do is online, which is fine, as they choose to do that.
Even we are online in that the DMV forces us to give them our photos.
Our SSN is everywhere by now - and it will survive us long after we die.

The thing I feel sorry for with the kids is they fall for every marketing
trick there is - which is sad when you think of it - but they mostly have a
defeatist attitude. You don't have that. I don't have that.

But you don't know enough about Android yet.
You need to learn a lot more before you claim it can't be private.
It can be.
You just have to know how it works inside & out.
Which takes years.

> I've considered the trend to be disturbing.

Ah, that's because you're a Myers-Briggs xNxJ, where your're highly
intuitive and also strongly judgemental (where the word doesn't mean what
it sounds like - but those are the words they used to describe it).

You don't take in a lot of data (because you're intuitive).
You make rash judgements (because you're highly judgmental).

Me?
I'm the opposite. xSxP. Highly S & P. Like off the charts.

I take in data (sensing) like data is the air we breathe.
Then I take another breath of data. And yet another one.
And one more after that.

Only after I take in all that data do I bother to make a tentative
decision, and even then I test it with more and more data.

You don't do that.
You're far more efficient.

But you're also wrong most of the time as a result.
So is everyone who is intuitive.

You can't intuit technology.
You just can't.

Anyone who tries will "think" they're right about everything.
And that's OK.

We need all sorts of people in this world (that's the P in me).

> But it's not only the phones. It's also the social media and the
> commercial ownership of the entire venue. On the bright side,
> psychologists and teachers are finally coming around and talking about
> the widespread addiction with kids. For many years people thought
> any screen was educational. Now that's finally beginning to change.

Ever wonder why a child can watch a Disney movie a thousand times?
And an adult can only watch it once (if that)?

The child has an open mind that is constantly taking in data points.
Of course, the child is missing datapoints also.

That's why when a child watches a movie, he takes in more datapoints in
each pass, just like we do when we test out technical things.

We have to keep the kid inside of us to keep learning every day.
Thousands of things every day we learn.

And we never stop.
It's all good.

[Carlos E.R.]

It's a new alias.

He probably intended to not use this alias much, but to appear as some
new poster to insult me, then disappear.

The instant he names me in a thread in which I was not participating to
insult me by saying I am a racist (impossible: I don't even know what
race he is, and he failed to cite where I have been racist to anybody),
it is obvious he is Arlen.

He has been caught at nameshifting minutes ago in alt.free.newsservers,
too. I kept my silence, but somebody else spilled the beans :-D

Pity, it was interesting to read that in radio silence :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Newyana2]

"Andrew" <and...@spam.net> wrote

| But you don't know enough about Android yet.
| You need to learn a lot more before you claim it can't be private.
| It can be.
| You just have to know how it works inside & out.
| Which takes years.
|

Bingo. So I choose to skip it rarther than waste so much
time to get competent.

| > I've considered the trend to be disturbing.
|
| Ah, that's because you're a Myers-Briggs xNxJ, where your're highly
| intuitive and also strongly judgemental (where the word doesn't mean what
| it sounds like - but those are the words they used to describe it).
|
| You don't take in a lot of data (because you're intuitive).
| You make rash judgements (because you're highly judgmental).
|
| Me?
| I'm the opposite. xSxP. Highly S & P. Like off the charts.
|
| I take in data (sensing) like data is the air we breathe.

Sensing is not taking in data. Sensing is living mainly
on body/impulse level. Sensing is cops and athletes. Though
I'm only familar with Jung's version. Myers Briggs is superficial
management strategy.

| > But it's not only the phones. It's also the social media and the
| > commercial ownership of the entire venue. On the bright side,
| > psychologists and teachers are finally coming around and talking about
| > the widespread addiction with kids. For many years people thought
| > any screen was educational. Now that's finally beginning to change.
|
| Ever wonder why a child can watch a Disney movie a thousand times?
| And an adult can only watch it once (if that)?
|
| The child has an open mind that is constantly taking in data points.
| Of course, the child is missing datapoints also.
|
| That's why when a child watches a movie, he takes in more datapoints in
| each pass, just like we do when we test out technical things.
|

I think that's your sensing impulsiveness coming through. :)
Kids watch it over and over because the famiarity is comforting.

[kelown]

> And kids use it even more than we do as most of us old men don't
> need X (formerly known as Twitter); but our kids swear by that stuff.

Keep in mind that seventy-something year old former US president Trump
used Twitter more than most youngsters. And judging by the raw nature of
his tweets, he was creating them on his own. Not all technology has an
age divide.

[Frank Slootweg]

Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
on the very same subject matter.

The mind boggles.

[Carlos E.R.]

And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
identities on another group :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Frank Slootweg]

Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
(alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)

It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
"spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
at reading for comprehension.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-02-14 15:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Newyana2 <Newy...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
>>>> Mayayana's.
>>>> |
>>>> | Hi, Arlen!
>>>> |
>>>>
>>>> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
>>>> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
>>>> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
>>>> to insult you.
>>>
>>> Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
>>> chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
>>> on the very same subject matter.
>>>
>>> The mind boggles.
>>
>> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
>> identities on another group :-D
>
> Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
> date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
> anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
> (alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)

Yesterday.

Newsgroups: alt.free.newsservers
Subject: Posting article failed: Socket Error # 10054; Connection reset
by peer.
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 15:44:35 -0500
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <uqgkbj$1jon$1...@paganini.bofh.team>

>
> It's also funny that 'Arlen' insults Mayayana, but doesn't realize
> that they actually mostly agree on this (non-)issue ('evil' Google,
> "spying", 'we' allegedly not caring about privacy). But then 'Arlen' has
> never been very good at following what discussions are (not) about, nor
> at reading for comprehension.

Right.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Frank Slootweg]

Thanks. Quite entertaining. Sucking up, lying, boasting and being
caught out. Wonder if the admin (JR) will bother to respond beyond his
first response (before AH's lies/boasting).

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Oh, the alias goes back to 2023-02-05 in this group.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 14 Feb 2024 14:27:37 GMT, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 12:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> > Newyana2 <Newy...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> >> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>> >>
>> >> | > Carlos has the same racist attitude - but just not as strong as
>> >> Mayayana's.
>> >> |
>> >> | Hi, Arlen!
>> >> |
>> >>
>> >> That's another Arlen alias? I forgot about him. But it makes
>> >> sense. I'm used to people getting mad at me for my strongly
>> >> expressed opinions, but I don't see why anyone would want
>> >> to insult you.
>> >
>> > Note that while 'Arlen' insults you from his 'rdb' alias, he happily
>> > chats with you from his 'Andrew' alias, all in the very same thread and
>> > on the very same subject matter.
>> >
>> > The mind boggles.
>>
>> And asks an admin how to post without a proper nntp client with faked
>> identities on another group :-D
>
> Is that recent? If so, please give a message-id (or group/subject/
>date), I/'we' need a laugh. (Or is this in micky's 'OT how to remain
>anonymous' thread (which he crossposted to his favourite troll group
>(alt.home.repair, so I don't see it)?)

Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
Windows repairs.

Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
believers) and 1 or 2 who post occasionally, but after I read a couple
of theirs, I don't read their posts anymore unless someone else quotes
them, and even then only if I can't understand the post I'm reading.

It used to be easy with the right software to email anonymously. Posting
to usenet is already anonymous if you want it to be. But it's not as
easy anymore, so it was a reasonable question.

[Frank Slootweg]

It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
with home repair - to alt.home.repair. By doing that, they/you turn it
into a troll group, a group polluted/ruined by trolls.

> Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
> believers) and 1 or 2 who post occasionally, but after I read a couple
> of theirs, I don't read their posts anymore unless someone else quotes
> them, and even then only if I can't understand the post I'm reading.

If there are indeed legit posters in alt.home.repair, then that's all
the more reason for you not to pollute/ruin their group with unrelated
posts.

> It used to be easy with the right software to email anonymously. Posting
> to usenet is already anonymous if you want it to be. But it's not as
> easy anymore, so it was a reasonable question.

I'm not talking about your question, I'm talking about you
crossposting it to a totally unrelated group. That's trollish behaviour,
period/full-stop.

You're an OK guy, but your crossposting to alt.home.repair is
trolling.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>
>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>> Windows repairs.
>
> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.

Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
topic.

Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
keep the ng interesting.

>By doing that, they/you turn it
>into a troll group,

No, it's a general discussion group. The whole idea that *every* group
has to be limited to one topic is silly in the first place. It made and
makes sense to have topics, as specified in the group name, so that
people who want to discuss a given topic can choose where to go to find
people of like interests, but the idea that everyone has only one
interest is false. What's true, and the advantage of discussing other
topics in addition to the named one, is that when you read posts and
replies by a given set of people, regular posters on a given group, you
learn who is smart and who is an idiot, whose opinion, by dint of prior
posts, you should respect and whose you should not, Then when they
write about other topics, you can apply that same standard.

> a group polluted/ruined by trolls.

And you're not even using the right definition of troll. Trolls are
those who post false or outrageous posts in order to get a reaction.
Like some fishermen troll for fish, they troll for startled or angry
replies. We've had a few of those for a decade or more, maybe always,
but afaict no more now than over the years. They are easy to ignore.

What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
Older people have solved most of their home repair problems already.
Young people who just bought houses have the most problems and the least
knowledge, but like the rest of Usenet, we have few or zero people like
that. They use the web, despite its inferiority. But the off-topic
posts keep a moderate number of people reading who are there to talk
about home repair when someone comes up with a topic.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-02-17 19:41, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>>> Windows repairs.
>>
>> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>> crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>> with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>
> Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> topic.
>
> Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> keep the ng interesting.
>
>> By doing that, they/you turn it
>> into a troll group,
>
> No, it's a general discussion group. The whole idea that *every* group
> has to be limited to one topic is silly in the first place.

No, it is not.

It is what makes a group useful or not.

If most of the posts are not on topic, one has a tendency to ignore or
even disable the group.

If most of the posts are on topic, then one leaves the group subscribed,
and reads it when a post appears.

There are other groups where those posts can go for those interested.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

On 2/17/24 11:41 AM, micky wrote:
>In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
><th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>>> Windows repairs.
>>
>> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>
>Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
>topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
>when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
>topic.
>
>Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
>keep the ng interesting.

I agree. I prefer most any traffic to a dead group which the Android group I
monitor is much of the time. But I'll use this post to test out a new
Samsung Galaxy S9FE Android tablet (toy) for the first time on Usenet so I
hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
this (gasp) OT post anyway...

[Patrick]

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 19:34:47 -0000 (UTC), AJL wrote:
>>What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.

Many news servers have put a.h.r into the "poisoned" newsgroup category.
Due to constant off topic posts which have nothing to do with home repair.

[AJL]

3 problems:

1. I didn't write that quote.

2. The OT police are going to get you for posting non-Android stuff in this
Android group.

3. And the bad guy group A.H.R. won't see it cause it wasn't cross posted.

Course that's kinda my fault cause this Android newsreader deleted it last
time. Probably just doesn't like 'poisoned' newsgroups?

And again for the OT police Im posting this time with my trusty Chrome
Tablet which also speaks Android...

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:49:17 -0600, Patrick

Name a couple.

[Newyana2]

"Patrick" <pat...@oleary.com> wrote

| >>What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
|
| Many news servers have put a.h.r into the "poisoned" newsgroup category.
| Due to constant off topic posts which have nothing to do with home repair.

That's been a problem for years with a lot of groups. Groups
like home repair are especially bad because they attract know-it-alls
and people who like to form clicques. Then those people start to feel
that they have seniority. As the audience ages it
gets worse, but there are some groups I left many years ago
because they were controlled by clicques of know-it-alls. Home
repair, webmaster, and of course Linux. Those groups were never
civilized.

Surprisingly, the Microsoft groups have always been the most
civilized and the most helpful in my experience. Maybe that was
because a lot of the regulars hoped to be recognized as MVPs.

[Frank Slootweg]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >> Windows repairs.
> >
> > It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
> >crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
> >with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>
> Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> topic.

Marking threads OT is no reason/excuse for crossposting to unrelated
groups.

Posting an off-topic article to a *single* group is somewhat accepted/
acceptable. BTW, the tag is '[OT]', not just 'OT', because that will
give false positives for some less capable newsreaders. (And indeed,
some (many? most?) of your off-topic threads are not marked as such.)

> Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> keep the ng interesting.

That's also no reason/excuse for crossposting to unrelated groups.

> >By doing that, they/you turn it
> >into a troll group,
>
> No, it's a general discussion group. The whole idea that *every* group
> has to be limited to one topic is silly in the first place.

Opinion noted and ignored.

> It made and
> makes sense to have topics, as specified in the group name, so that
> people who want to discuss a given topic can choose where to go to find
> people of like interests, but the idea that everyone has only one
> interest is false.

Indeed, people might have multiple areas of interest, that's *why*
there are multiple groups. What was your point again!?

> What's true, and the advantage of discussing other
> topics in addition to the named one, is that when you read posts and
> replies by a given set of people, regular posters on a given group, you
> learn who is smart and who is an idiot, whose opinion, by dint of prior
> posts, you should respect and whose you should not, Then when they
> write about other topics, you can apply that same standard.

Still no reason/excuse to crosspost to unrelated groups.

> > a group polluted/ruined by trolls.
>
> And you're not even using the right definition of troll. Trolls are
> those who post false or outrageous posts in order to get a reaction.
> Like some fishermen troll for fish, they troll for startled or angry
> replies. We've had a few of those for a decade or more, maybe always,
> but afaict no more now than over the years. They are easy to ignore.

Please don't give me/'us' any lessons on Usenet parlance. Crossposting
to unrelated groups is a common troll(ish) tactic. Can't do the time,
...

> What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
> Older people have solved most of their home repair problems already.
> Young people who just bought houses have the most problems and the least
> knowledge, but like the rest of Usenet, we have few or zero people like
> that. They use the web, despite its inferiority. But the off-topic
> posts keep a moderate number of people reading who are there to talk
> about home repair when someone comes up with a topic.

Again, off-topic posts are 'fine'/acceptable, crossposting to
unrelated groups is not. End of story.

[AJL]

>> What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
>> Older people have solved most of their home repair problems already.
>> Young people who just bought houses have the most problems and the least
>> knowledge, but like the rest of Usenet, we have few or zero people like
>> that. They use the web, despite its inferiority. But the off-topic
>> posts keep a moderate number of people reading who are there to talk
>> about home repair when someone comes up with a topic.
>
> Again, off-topic posts are 'fine'/acceptable, crossposting to
>unrelated groups is not. End of story.

Gosh Frank, your current many-post, cross-posted, non-OT marked, non-Android
subject mattered (in this Android group), Usenet correct use sermons are a
great example of what you seem to despise. Do as I say and not as I do?
Anyway, keep up the good work cause it makes the place interesting. You too
Micky... ;-)

Again, this Android newsreader will probably sever the other group so
apologies. On the other hand does it make my post more legal? Mentioning
Android in a (gasp) Windows group? And I did mention the word Android here
several times. Sure hope so... 8-O

[Frank Slootweg]

AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
> On 2/17/24 11:41 AM, micky wrote:
> >In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> ><th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >>> Windows repairs.
> >>
> >> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
> >>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
> >>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
> >
> >Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
> >topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
> >when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
> >topic.
> >
> >Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
> >keep the ng interesting.
>
>
> I agree. I prefer most any traffic to a dead group which the Android group I
> monitor is much of the time.

Please note that my citicism is *not* about off-topic posts, but about
*crossposting* to totally unrelated groups.

> But I'll use this post to test out a new
> Samsung Galaxy S9FE Android tablet (toy) for the first time on Usenet so I
> hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
> Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
> perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
> this (gasp) OT post anyway...

AFAICT, there are no "OT cops" (in comp.mobile.android)! At most
there's *one*, but he shouts "off topic" to everything, mostly stuff
which is perfectly on topic.

BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.

[...]

[Frank Slootweg]

[Re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10]

AJL <noe...@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/17/24 4:49 PM, Patrick wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 19:34:47 -0000 (UTC), AJL wrote:
> >>>What tends to ruin home.repair is the lack of young people using Usenet.
>
> >Many news servers have put a.h.r into the "poisoned" newsgroup category.
> >Due to constant off topic posts which have nothing to do with home repair.
>
> 3 problems:
>
> 1. I didn't write that quote.
>
> 2. The OT police are going to get you for posting non-Android stuff in this
> Android group.

See my earlier response. No such thing as "The OT police".

> 3. And the bad guy group A.H.R. won't see it cause it wasn't cross posted.
>
> Course that's kinda my fault cause this Android newsreader deleted it last
> time. Probably just doesn't like 'poisoned' newsgroups?

Your Android newsreader didn't delete A.H.R., because the thread was
never crossposted to that group, it deleted alt.comp.os.windows-10.

> And again for the OT police Im posting this time with my trusty Chrome
> Tablet which also speaks Android...

See 2..

[AJL]

I didn't break the crosspost, my newsreader did, and since I paid 2 bucks
for it 5 years ago I'm not gonna stop using it until I get my money's
worth. Besides what's more appropriate than an Android newsreader in an
Android group? Unfortunately I no longer have any Android 9 or below
devices (given to greatgrandkids) so my favorite (and only) Android
multi-group newsreader Groundhog is now read only on my current devices...

[Frank Slootweg]

AJL <noe...@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/18/24 8:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> >> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

[...]

> Gosh Frank, your current many-post, cross-posted, non-OT marked, non-Android
> subject mattered (in this Android group), Usenet correct use sermons are a
> great example of what you seem to despise. Do as I say and not as I do?
> Anyway, keep up the good work cause it makes the place interesting. You too
> Micky... ;-)

When you get cocky, it's best to actually know what did and did not
happen.

This thread was *originally* crossposted to the two groups
(comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.os.windows-10) and, as the Subject: header
indicates ("What!? Are we supposed to pay attention to the Subject:!?
Get real!"), for some good/reasonable reason.

Then there was thread drift. ("What!? 'thread drift'!? Can't happen on
Usenet!") The thread drift was not related to either group, so there
was, and is, no reason to cut the crossposts.

> Again, this Android newsreader will probably sever the other group so
> apologies. On the other hand does it make my post more legal? Mentioning
> Android in a (gasp) Windows group? And I did mention the word Android here
> several times. Sure hope so... 8-O

Now you know that your Android newsreader cuts off groups, you
shouldn't use it to respond to crossposted article.

[Frank Slootweg]

Duh! Of course I know that your newsreader broke the crossposting, but
because you *know* it does that, you shouldn't use it to respond to
crossposted postings, because it creates seperate, duplicate discussions
is the affected groups.

[AJL]

Aye aye sir...

[AJL]

Aye aye sir...

[Frank Slootweg]

AJL <noe...@none.org> wrote:
> On 2/18/24 9:45 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >AJL <noe...@none.org> wrote:
> >> On 2/18/24 8:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >> >micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >> >> In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> >> >> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >[...]
> >> Gosh Frank, your current many-post, cross-posted, non-OT marked, non-Android
> >> subject mattered (in this Android group), Usenet correct use sermons are a
> >> great example of what you seem to despise. Do as I say and not as I do?
> >> Anyway, keep up the good work cause it makes the place interesting. You too
> >> Micky... ;-)
> >
> > When you get cocky, it's best to actually know what did and did not
> >happen.
> >
> > This thread was *originally* crossposted to the two groups
> >(comp.mobile.android,alt.comp.os.windows-10) and, as the Subject: header
> >indicates ("What!? Are we supposed to pay attention to the Subject:!?
> >Get real!"), for some good/reasonable reason.
> >
> > Then there was thread drift. ("What!? 'thread drift'!? Can't happen on
> >Usenet!") The thread drift was not related to either group, so there
> >was, and is, no reason to cut the crossposts.

Non response duly noted.

> >> Again, this Android newsreader will probably sever the other group so
> >> apologies. On the other hand does it make my post more legal? Mentioning
> >> Android in a (gasp) Windows group? And I did mention the word Android here
> >> several times. Sure hope so... 8-O
> >
> > Now you know that your Android newsreader cuts off groups, you
> >shouldn't use it to respond to crossposted article.
>
> Aye aye sir...

I don't know why - this time - you behave the way you behave, but it's
clear you've not been following the (sub)thread(s), yet apparently still
feel the need to criticize me with bogus and rather offensive
(non-)arguments.

So no, saying "Aye aye sir..." only adds to the offense.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-02-18 17:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
> bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
> re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.

Thanks.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

You mean the offense of playing net-cop? It's not offensive to me. Even when
it has nothing to do with Android. Better than being dead. The NewsGroup I
mean...

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on 18 Feb 2024 16:10:08 GMT, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
>> On 2/17/24 11:41 AM, micky wrote:
>> >In comp.mobile.android, on 16 Feb 2024 18:30:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg
>> ><th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>> >>> longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>> >>> first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>> >>> Windows repairs.
>> >>
>> >> It *is* a troll group because many people - *including* you -
>> >>crosspost totally unrelated posts - i.e. posts which have nothing to do
>> >>with home repair - to alt.home.repair.
>> >
>> >Almost all of mine and most of the others threads are marked OT, off
>> >topic. Anyone can make a filter so they don't see off-topic posts. Even
>> >when they are not marked OT, people can quickly see when they are off
>> >topic.
>> >
>> >Usenet use is decreasing and there aren't enough home repair posts to
>> >keep the ng interesting.
>>
>>
>> I agree. I prefer most any traffic to a dead group which the Android group I
>> monitor is much of the time.
>
> Please note that my citicism is *not* about off-topic posts, but about
>*crossposting* to totally unrelated groups.

I'm glad you brought that up. I have never started a thread that went
to any group I didn't think was related. In practice, they were not
just related but clearly related.

I may have once accidentally added a group in a reply a week or two ago.
I have trouble remembering the names of many groups, including both
groups to which this is posted, the android and windows group. What I
normally do rather than guess at the spelling is visit the group,
display headers, and copy the name, then go back to the unfinished post
and put the name in. A week or two ago I had 3 or maybe 4 posts almost
ready to go, and to each I added one ng name and sent them. One of them
might have been waiting for something else, not the ng name I put in, so
that would have been an unrelated posting. I figured it was no big deal
but now I apologize.

What I don't do is trim groups off a reply post in an existing thread,
because people may be reading any ng I might trim, and they will want to
see all the replies, even if they have drifted off-topic.

Also, when someone trims groups, and he trims the one I've posted from,
the one I'm reading every day, it means if I want to see his answer and
those who reply to him, I have to open and go read, in practice, all the
other, up to 3, other groups to which the post had been sent. That is a
real inconvenience, and I'm sure there are times I don't see them all or
reply even to ones that call out for a reply.

I was told by someone 20 or 30 years ago that it was improper, a
violation of netiquette, to remove groups, for these very reasons. Since
then I've occasionally complained when others do this, and I was told
it's not a violation of netiquette, so I googled, couldn't find that
rule, and stopped complaining, though I didn't change what I do or don't
do. And later I've realized that those who post via google groups can
only post to the ng they are reading, so that's also made me feel
better, and I've probably stopped noticing when it happens.

>> But I'll use this post to test out a new
>> Samsung Galaxy S9FE Android tablet (toy) for the first time on Usenet so I

AJL, don't have a tablet, not likely to do Usenet from my phone, but
what app are you using? All the formatting has been correct so it seems
to work well.

>> hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
>> Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
>> perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
>> this (gasp) OT post anyway...
>
> AFAICT, there are no "OT cops" (in comp.mobile.android)! At most
>there's *one*, but he shouts "off topic" to everything, mostly stuff
>which is perfectly on topic.
>
> BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
>bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
>re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.

Yes, good, that's for the same reason I don't trim groups. So maybe
trimming is a violation of netiquette, at least sometimes?

>
>[...]

[AJL]

PhoNews Pro. I'm currently using it to post from a Chrome tablet. But when
I'm out and need to kill time I sometimes use it to post from my phone as
well...

>>> hope the OT cops will find it acceptable on the Android group anyway.
>>> Unfortunately I don't think this Android newsreader crossposts (bug or
>>> perhaps on purpose?) so you folks in the other non-Android groups may miss
>>> this (gasp) OT post anyway...
>>
>> AFAICT, there are no "OT cops" (in comp.mobile.android)! At most
>>there's *one*, but he shouts "off topic" to everything, mostly stuff
>>which is perfectly on topic.
>>
>> BTW, you broke the crossposting (to alt.comp.os.windows-10), which is
>>bad, because we now have seperate discussions in the two groups. I have
>>re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10 in attempt to undo part of the damage.
>
>Yes, good, that's for the same reason I don't trim groups. So maybe
>trimming is a violation of netiquette, at least sometimes?

If you missed it PhoNews doesn't crosspost which annoys some here. Since I
only monitor this one group it has never really bothered me all that much.
At least not enough to dig out my old (yuk) Windows LT...


>>
>>[...]

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-02-18 23:00, AJL wrote:
> On 2/18/24 2:33 PM, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on 18 Feb 2024 16:10:08 GMT, Frank Slootweg
>> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

...

>> Yes, good, that's for the same reason I don't trim groups.   So maybe
>> trimming is a violation of netiquette, at least sometimes?
>
> If you missed it PhoNews doesn't crosspost which annoys some here. Since I
> only monitor this one group it has never really bothered me all that much.
> At least not enough to dig out my old (yuk) Windows LT...

It bothers those of us who are reading the thread on a different group
than you.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

If you're reading a group other than the Android group you shouldn't see my
posts. That's likely a good thing for you. Be thankful. But somehow you
still manage to see my posts elsewhere. So you'll have to blame someone
else for crossposting them there. I only monitor and post in this one
Android group so without some unwanted help I should be easily ignored.
Good luck all...

[Carlos E.R.]

I read both groups. And I try to read all the posts.

It is a nuisance when somebody insists on writing and breaking the tread
by posting to only one of them, forcing me to check both groups instead
of deleting one.

That you do not want to write on windows group is irrelevant, your
method is not polite.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

That makes no sense. If you already read both groups how am I forcing you to
read both groups by only posting to one?? And why would you delete a whole
group anyway since a lot of the posts there are likely NOT crossposted...

>That you do not want to write on windows group is irrelevant,

I have nothing against any group. This newsreader simply doesn't crosspost.

>your method is not polite.

I think that much of the crossposting that I see in this Android group is
what's impolite. The recent net-cop Micky bashing thread and this current
crosspost bitchfest are examples. But then I'm to blame as well for taking
the bait. However as I've often said any traffic, even your "impolite"
traffic, makes interesting reading and keeps the group alive. So carry
on...

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:42:48 -0500, micky

<NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:

>
>Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>Windows repairs.
>

>Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true

To be clear, the Frank mentioned here from AHR is not Frank Slootweg. I
guess my mind is compartmentalized by ng and it didnt' even occur to me
they have the same first name (and I don't know what the other one's
last name is.)

>believers) and 1 or 2 who post occasionally, but after I read a couple
>of theirs, I don't read their posts anymore unless someone else quotes
>them, and even then only if I can't understand the post I'm reading.

[Frank Slootweg]

Not quite. The false and rather offensive accusation of double
standards. (The playing net-cop criticism is bogus, but that's not my
main beef.)

Again, that you don't follow the thread is fine, but slinging
offensive accusations around, because you can't be bothered to backtrack
what you didn't read, is a no-no in my book.

[Frank Slootweg]

Sigh!

You *frequently* crosspost to totally unrelated groups. Specifically -
as I explained several times - your crossposting to alt.home.repair is
*nearly always* improper, because your topic is not even remotely
related to home repair.

[Details of practice of not stripping groups - which is GOOD - deleted.]

[Frank Slootweg]

AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
> On 2/18/24 6:57 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> >On 2024-02-19 01:35, AJL wrote:
>
> >> If you're reading a group other than the Android group you shouldn't see my
> >> posts. That's likely a good thing for you. Be thankful. But somehow you
> >> still manage to see my posts elsewhere. So you'll have to blame someone
> >> else for crossposting them there. I only monitor and post in this one
> >> Android group so without some unwanted help I should be easily ignored.
> >> Good luck all...
>
> >I read both groups. And I try to read all the posts.
> >It is a nuisance when somebody insists on writing and breaking the tread
> >by posting to only one of them, forcing me to check both groups instead
> >of deleting one.
>
> That makes no sense. If you already read both groups how am I forcing you to
> read both groups by only posting to one?? And why would you delete a whole
> group anyway since a lot of the posts there are likely NOT crossposted...

It's not that you respond, but that people respond to you, *after*
you've broken the crosspost. Those responses don't appear is the cut-off
group, creating two unconnected discussions for those people who *do*
want to follow the thread, i.e. people who are subscribed to
alt.comp.os.windows-10 are cut off from the subthread after you broke
the crosspost.

IOW, it's not about your posts, it's about *other* people's posts,
after *you* broke the crosspost.

> >That you do not want to write on windows group is irrelevant,
>
> I have nothing against any group. This newsreader simply doesn't crosspost.

So, as I said, you should stop using it to respond to crossposted
articles. (Using it to respond to articles posted to a single group is
of course fine.)

> >your method is not polite.
>
> I think that much of the crossposting that I see in this Android group is
> what's impolite.

Get a clue, will you!? The original crosspost was OK. READ the
Subject: header.

> The recent net-cop Micky bashing

Get off your uninformed high horse! There's no 'net-cop Micky
bashing'! *micky* responded to *my* comment that I filtered unrelated
crossposts to the troll-group alt.home.repair. Again you haven't read
the (sub-)thread(s), but throw around accusations.

> and this current
> crosspost bitchfest are examples.

This is only a 'bitchfest', because you keep on doing the wrong thing
(break the crosspost), against the advice of - apparently - much more
experienced Usenet users (me, Carlos).

Note that micky has said the same thing - don't break crossposts - so
by your 'logic' he's both a 'victim' (of me alleged net-cop actions)
*and* the 'enemy' (because he's against you in this 'crosspost
bitchfest').

> But then I'm to blame as well for taking
> the bait. However as I've often said any traffic, even your "impolite"
> traffic, makes interesting reading and keeps the group alive. So carry
> on...

I know you don't mind 'too much' traffic in comp.mobile.android, but
realize that your (impolite) practice (of breaking crossposts) also
results in *too little* traffic in the cut-off group.

[Frank Slootweg]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:42:48 -0500, micky
> <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >Windows repairs.
> >
> >Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
>
> To be clear, the Frank mentioned here from AHR is not Frank Slootweg. I
> guess my mind is compartmentalized by ng and it didnt' even occur to me
> they have the same first name (and I don't know what the other one's
> last name is.)

Thanks for the clarification (for others).

BTW, I assume the same goes for 'T' - i.e. two different T's, or do
you mean a single one (both in alt.home.repair and in
alt.comp.os.windows-10)?

[AJL]

Whew. That main beef, is it well done?

> Again, that you don't follow the thread is fine, but slinging
>offensive accusations around, because you can't be bothered to backtrack
>what you didn't read, is a no-no in my book.

What does your book say about continuing this non-Android BS in the Android
group? I mean it makes interesting reading and the tit for tat is fun, but
isn't it against your long published scruples? Do as I say... ;)

[AJL]

On 2/19/24 9:06 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Sure sounds like a net-cop to me. Or mother? Or a non-Sunday sermon? ;)

[AJL]

Nah. Changed my mind. Sounds more like mother... ;)

But keep up the OT sermons. We need the traffic in a slow Android group...

[Frank Slootweg]

If you're trying to act like a jerk, you're doing a good job of it.

> > Again, that you don't follow the thread is fine, but slinging
> >offensive accusations around, because you can't be bothered to backtrack
> >what you didn't read, is a no-no in my book.
>
> What does your book say about continuing this non-Android BS in the Android
> group? I mean it makes interesting reading and the tit for tat is fun, but
> isn't it against your long published scruples? Do as I say... ;)

Get over yourself with "your long published scruples? Do as I say..."
offensive accusations of double standards. It's all and only in your
head, not on any actual record.

As to the first sentence: Still not reading for comprehension are we!?
The thread was/is *crossposted* and rightly so (and once crossposted,
the crosspost should not be broken). What you call "this non-Android BS
in the Android group" is - as I *said* - thread drift. Yes, thread
drift is often off-topic. OTOH, talking about Usenet practice on Usenet
is often legit.

Anyway, if you don't like the 'off-topic' stuff, take it up with those
who started the subthread(s) (and didn't mark them OT). *I* can do well
without your misinformed and misdirected claptrap.

And no, adding some smileys does *not* justify/excuse the offense/
insults.

[Frank Slootweg]

Have you read anything of what I - *and others* - wrote? Did you
understand any of it?

Did you see that *micky* gave the exact same "OT sermon" on (not)
cutting crossposts?

Or were you too busy thinking of 'cute' offensive one-liners with
'cute' smileys?

[Frank Slootweg]

I see. I say that micky isn't actually doing what he claims he's doing
*AND* I commend him for his proper way of not breaking crossposts, but
that somehow magically makes me a net-cop. Rather peculiar definition of
net-cop.

[Paul]

On 2/19/2024 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Note that micky has said the same thing - don't break crossposts - so
> by your 'logic' he's both a 'victim' (of me alleged net-cop actions)
> *and* the 'enemy' (because he's against you in this 'crosspost
> bitchfest').
>

There's some reference here to USENET clients, and it's a mixed lot.
Possibly a paid client would work better, but then you'd need to
find a review somewhere, to verify it is feature-complete.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Z-ZUUdnkcEY

Even Thunderbird isn't feature complete, but not in a way that
affects others or the general health of threads.

Paul

[Frank Slootweg]

<firmly sitting on hands>

[AJL]

A cop is one who tells others what they do wrong. A net-cop is one who tells
others what they do wrong on useNET. You can read some of your lecturing
near the -"*including* you- quotes you provided above. If the shoe fits...
(winky removed upon request) Your turn to post OT in the Android group
cause I did my part... ;) Damn, just couldn't help it, the winky just
slipped out... 8-O

[Frank Slootweg]

Exactly *which* part of the "*AND*" bit did you miss / not understand!?

Sure, a 'cop' *might* 'correct' and commend in the same exchange, but
that's not very likely, is it!?

But I get it, any time anyone says something 'negative' and something
positive, (s)he's a 'cop'.

From now on, only positive feedback on these groups or you'll face the
wrath of AJL, or worse, his 'humour'.

I think were done. Agreed? I'm a net-cop. You act like a jerk. News at
eleven.

[AJL]

On 2/19/24 12:59 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote

>a 'cop' *might* 'correct' and commend in the same exchange, but
>that's not very likely, is it!?

Probably not. With 25 years on the job I found it was mostly negative
contacts.

>But I get it, any time anyone says something 'negative' and something
>positive, (s)he's a 'cop'.

I think most folks would consider a net-cop to be one who critizes other's
Usenet procedures.

>From now on, only positive feedback on these groups or you'll face the
>wrath of AJL,

Nope. No worries unless you're Frank playing net-cop.

>or worse, his 'humour'.

Now you've really hurt me.

>I think were done. Agreed?

Sounds good. I hear the folks here in the Android group already clapping.

>You act like a jerk. News at eleven.

I love you too Frank... ;)

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on 19 Feb 2024 16:20:07 GMT, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:42:48 -0500, micky
>> <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
>> >longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
>> >first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
>> >Windows repairs.
>> >
>> >Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
>>
>> To be clear, the Frank mentioned here from AHR is not Frank Slootweg. I
>> guess my mind is compartmentalized by ng and it didnt' even occur to me
>> they have the same first name (and I don't know what the other one's
>> last name is.)
>
> Thanks for the clarification (for others).
>
> BTW, I assume the same goes for 'T' - i.e. two different T's, or do
>you mean a single one (both in alt.home.repair and in
>alt.comp.os.windows-10)?

I have seen the other but I don't think I've checked the T's to see if
they are the same. I mean AHR's T.

[Frank Slootweg]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on 19 Feb 2024 16:20:07 GMT, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:42:48 -0500, micky
> >> <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Alt.home.repair is not a troll group. It's the group I've read the
> >> >longest and the most, because it gave me answers on home repair. When I
> >> >first bought this house, home repairs were a lot more important than
> >> >Windows repairs.
> >> >
> >> >Tbere are 3 or 4 trolls there, T and Frank (unless they are true
> >>
> >> To be clear, the Frank mentioned here from AHR is not Frank Slootweg. I
> >> guess my mind is compartmentalized by ng and it didnt' even occur to me
> >> they have the same first name (and I don't know what the other one's
> >> last name is.)
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification (for others).
> >
> > BTW, I assume the same goes for 'T' - i.e. two different T's, or do
> >you mean a single one (both in alt.home.repair and in
> >alt.comp.os.windows-10)?
>
> I have seen the other but I don't think I've checked the T's to see if
> they are the same. I mean AHR's T.

Thanks. (For obvious reasons,) I don't follow AHR, so, for the time
being, let's assume they're two different T's.

I think we've now crossed our T's. Any I's to dot?