What are the most fundamental basic apps that are (apparently) lacking on Android?

[Arlen Holder]

If you were to write your own fundamental app that doesn't appear to exist
(as far as you might know), what would that fundamentally basic app do?

If I ever download, install, and learn how to write my own Android apps:
<https://developer.android.com/studio/>
<https://developer.android.com/studio/install>
<https://developer.android.com/training/basics/firstapp/creating-project>

The first few extremely basic apps I'd consider all could use might be...
(all obviously would be add free, login free, server free, etc.)
(all, obviously, would go away on their own once you run them)
1. A single-press non-GUI *10-minute timer.*
The use model is you hit a '10-min' icon on the desktop, & that's it.
10 minutes later, an alarm rings (where the alarm can be your voice)
The GUI would only be for settings, which may include
o the default time period (and hence the name of the desktop link)
o the ringtone to ring (and perhaps the length of time to ring it)
o the name of the desktop icon (e.g., 10-min, 20-min, 60-min, etc.)
o maybe a voice warning, at, say, the half-way mark (or whatever)
Similar to, but better than:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.terarisu.limited_timer010>
2. A keyboard that _defaults_ to the _microphone_ for God's sake!
(And, a keyboard that speaks the letters pressed, but quickly!!!!!!)
3. A camera app that works when you're working under a car in low
light and are wearing gloves when you simply need to snap pictures of
the engine without having to futz with the camera settings!
o it has to work without gloved finger being on a specified spot
o it has to _remember_ the damn settings (so many apps don't!)
o idiotic buttons are disabled (e.g., selfie shit)
The best I can find is a timer camera but it's not the same thing.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.sourceforge.opencamera/>
4. An app that creates an _editable_ file of the installed apps
o it has to contain the installed apps by unique name
o it must also contain the installed _version_ of each app
o it should also contain the name used for the desktop icon
5. A single-press surreptitious recording app
o It should be able to have _any_ name or desktop icon
o It should take a single button press to activate
o It should be able to be activated after a given elapsed time
6. A keyword-driven _locally processed_ virtual assistant
o It _must_ be locally driven (no server like Siri or GV Actions)
o The user would train it to do what the user wants it to do
o For example, "Call mom" would call the owner's mom
o For example, "Remind me to call Joe at 10am tomorrow"
o For example, "Add eggs to my grocery list"
o The key is that it has to be locally driven.
o There is no way we'll code the intelligence that GV Actions has.
o So it would have a set of custom "words <-> action".
7. ?

If you were to write your own fundamental app that doesn't appear to exist
(as far as you might know), what would that fundamentally basic app do?

[Joe Beanfish]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 05:43:45 +0000, Arlen Holder wrote:

> If you were to write your own fundamental app that doesn't appear to exist
> (as far as you might know), what would that fundamentally basic app do?
>
> If I ever download, install, and learn how to write my own Android apps:
> <https://developer.android.com/studio/>
> <https://developer.android.com/studio/install>
> <https://developer.android.com/training/basics/firstapp/creating-project>
>
> The first few extremely basic apps I'd consider all could use might be...
> (all obviously would be add free, login free, server free, etc.)
> (all, obviously, would go away on their own once you run them)
> 1. A single-press non-GUI *10-minute timer.*
> The use model is you hit a '10-min' icon on the desktop, & that's it.
> 10 minutes later, an alarm rings (where the alarm can be your voice)

...

> Similar to, but better than:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.terarisu.limited_timer010>

So you already know of one. I had a kitchen timer a while back
that did what you want, unfortunately I don't recall the name.
In what way is the one you list lacking?

> 3. A camera app that works when you're working under a car in low
> light and are wearing gloves when you simply need to snap pictures of
> the engine without having to futz with the camera settings!
> o it has to work without gloved finger being on a specified spot
> o it has to _remember_ the damn settings (so many apps don't!)
> o idiotic buttons are disabled (e.g., selfie shit)
> The best I can find is a timer camera but it's not the same thing.
> <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.sourceforge.opencamera/>

The stock camera on samsung phones can be triggered by voice, after
you turn on the option, and can be linked from lock screen. So it's
one swipe on the screen to launch it then I say "shoot" to take pics.
Auto-flash takes care of lighting. I use it plenty for just that. The
only issue would be launching it with a gloved finger. Use your nose! lol

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:40:32 -0000 (UTC), Joe Beanfish wrote:

> So you already know of one. I had a kitchen timer a while back
> that did what you want, unfortunately I don't recall the name.
> In what way is the one you list lacking?

Thank you for your interesting and valuable input & suggestions!
My answer will be an attempt to add value to what you suggested!

The 10-minute timer app I found is the best I could find, where it's
lacking in only a few respects, since it does "mostly" what I want.
o You press the home-screen icon, named "010 Minutes Timer"
o The screen is taken over by the app & the clock starts
o Th alarm rings at the 10-minute mark

The main thing I want it to do that it doesn't is it needs to make it
manually "go away" after it starts. I don't need the GUI (except to set
settings just once).

The simple timer app I envision would do this:
1. You set the time period, say "10 minutes" & the app icon name ("10").
2. You set anything else you want, e.g., reminders, repeats, alarms, etc.
3. That's it. You press a button, which creates the icon named "10".

When you press the icon named "10", it rings an alarm 10 minutes later.
No Gui. No nothing. You press and then minutes later you get an alarm.
It might beep once, like any appliance setting does, to indicate starting.

The point is simplicity.
The good news is that it might be a good 2nd app after "hello world".

>> 3. A camera app that works when you're working under a car in low
>> light and are wearing gloves when you simply need to snap pictures of
>> the engine without having to futz with the camera settings!
>> o it has to work without gloved finger being on a specified spot
>> o it has to _remember_ the damn settings (so many apps don't!)
>> o idiotic buttons are disabled (e.g., selfie shit)
>> The best I can find is a timer camera but it's not the same thing.
>> <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.sourceforge.opencamera/>
>
> The stock camera on samsung phones can be triggered by voice, after

> you turn on the option, and can be linked from lock screen.''

I've tried voice-camera apps before without success, but you're right that,
while working under the car in low light with gloves, voice beats anything
else.

The other thing I need in a camera app is to disable that stupid selfie
button, which I've hit so many times & scared myself that it's not funny.

There's never going to be a time in my life that I'll want a selfie button,
unless the back camera is broken and then I have to use it just to take a
picture forward. I can't imagine why so many camera apps have it so
prominent, when it's never once needed during the life of the phone.

If I wrote a camera app, it would allow the user to disable any button they
don't want to see.

Another beef I have with most camera apps is that the settings "revert"
back to default after a while. WTF. If I make a setting, I want it to stay
forever. Any app I write will keep the settings, or, as I'm want to do (if
I ever got good at it), I'd give the user a timer setting for when to
revert back to default and what to use as the default to revert back to.

It would all be so simple in that the settings might go on for pages and
pages and pages, but the user of the camera would be simple. One button.

> So it's
> one swipe on the screen to launch it then I say "shoot" to take pics.

In gloves, that "one swipe" is problematic, particularly since you're
always going to be greasy. But it may be a requirement.

> Auto-flash takes care of lighting.

Yup.
It's almost always necessary under a car to have flash turned on.

Here's a picture I took of a transmission removed, for example:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7157145alignmentpin04.jpg>

Often a pre-positioning flash is useful to aim the thing since you almost
never can see the screen and you need both hands most of the time:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3686120clutch007.jpg>

That's from the DIY I wrote when I replaced a SUV clutch a couple of months
ago, and wrote up a complete DIY but taking pictures with greasy gloves on
a new Android phone drove me nuts:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3249536clutch008.jpg>

So I gave up on the photos after a while:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.home.repair/qEhph1MmSKs/S_R2Y4gRBwAJ>

> I use it plenty for just that. The
> only issue would be launching it with a gloved finger.
> Use your nose! lol

Trust me, I've used my nose. Seriously. With gloves, there's not much else
you can do except I mostly used a timer, where the best timer-based camera
app I could find, bar none, is this one!
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.sourceforge.opencamera/>

It's not perfect - but since it's an open-source camera app, I would think
my strategy would be to copy _everything_ this guy did, and then improve it
from there, e.g., I'd hide the selfie button which he has prominant.

I tested scores of timer cameras before settling on that one as the best
timer camera app on this planet, where the guy has multiply nested settings
for the timer function.
o Timer
o Repeat
o Repeat-mode interval
o Pause after photo
o Timer beep/voice countdown
o Shutter sound
o Start camera during a given noise or learned voice command
o Audio control sensitivity
o Turn the volume key into the camera button
o Tap anywhere to capture
etc.

What app would _you_ write 1st if you wanted the perfect Android app?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Arlen Holder:

>If you were to write your own fundamental app that doesn't appear to exist
>(as far as you might know), what would that fundamentally basic app do?

A hierarchical outliner like CarbonFin on IOS.

I had been using Google Tasks as a kludgy workaround, but Google yanked the
carpet out sometime in the last couple months with "Android Tasks" and now
I'm semi-screwed until I can finish exporting into Excel.

Excel, of course sort-of works - but it is cumbersome, slow, and lacking in
features compared to CarbonFin.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Anssi Saari]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> writes:

> Per Arlen Holder:
>>If you were to write your own fundamental app that doesn't appear to exist
>>(as far as you might know), what would that fundamentally basic app do?
>
> A hierarchical outliner like CarbonFin on IOS.

Is there no decent outliner app for Android? I don't use any but with a
very quick look there seems to be no shortage of those for Android.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Anssi Saari:

>Is there no decent outliner app for Android? I don't use any but with a
>very quick look there seems to be no shortage of those for Android.

I haven't put the time in lately - but in the past I've been though maybe a
half-dozen apps and all fell short in a big way.

Note *Hierarchical* Outliner.... not just "Outliner".... beeeeg diff.
--
Pete Cresswell

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <eghjudt81vntrdrq4...@4ax.com>,

What does outliner (hierarchical or otherwise) mean?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when
they're in trouble again.

[Anssi Saari]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> writes:

> In message <eghjudt81vntrdrq4...@4ax.com>,
> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> writes:
>>Per Anssi Saari:
>>>Is there no decent outliner app for Android? I don't use any but with a
>>>very quick look there seems to be no shortage of those for Android.
>>
>>I haven't put the time in lately - but in the past I've been though maybe a
>>half-dozen apps and all fell short in a big way.
>>
>>Note *Hierarchical* Outliner.... not just "Outliner".... beeeeg diff.
>
> What does outliner (hierarchical or otherwise) mean?

I'm actually not sure if it means here what I think it means. I was
thinking of document outlining where you enter your headings and
subheadings to create the structure or outline of a document and then
fill in the actual text. Similar organization can of course be used for
many things. Todo lists is one good example.

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliner) says this:

An outliner (or outline processor) is a specialized type of text editor
(word processor) used to create and edit outlines, which are text files
which have a tree structure, for organization. Textual information is
contained in discrete sections called "nodes", which are arranged
according to their topic–subtopic (parent–child) relationships, sort of
like the members of a family tree. When loaded into an outliner, an
outline may be collapsed or expanded to display as few or as many levels
as desired.

There's an example of org-mode in Emacs and I like to use for notes and
todo lists and often a mix of both that but it's not practical on a
phone.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <vg3in0t...@coffee.modeemi.fi>, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi>
writes:

>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> writes:
>
>> In message <eghjudt81vntrdrq4...@4ax.com>,
>> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> writes:
>>>Per Anssi Saari:
>>>>Is there no decent outliner app for Android? I don't use any but with a
>>>>very quick look there seems to be no shortage of those for Android.
>>>
>>>I haven't put the time in lately - but in the past I've been though maybe a
>>>half-dozen apps and all fell short in a big way.
>>>
>>>Note *Hierarchical* Outliner.... not just "Outliner".... beeeeg diff.
>>
>> What does outliner (hierarchical or otherwise) mean?
>
>I'm actually not sure if it means here what I think it means. I was
>thinking of document outlining where you enter your headings and
>subheadings to create the structure or outline of a document and then
>fill in the actual text. Similar organization can of course be used for
>many things. Todo lists is one good example.

Thanks for the explanation. (I can't see me preparing any but simple
documents on a 'phone, but each to his own!)

>
>Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliner) says this:
>
>An outliner (or outline processor) is a specialized type of text editor
>(word processor) used to create and edit outlines, which are text files
>which have a tree structure, for organization. Textual information is
>contained in discrete sections called "nodes", which are arranged
>according to their topic–subtopic (parent–child) relationships, sort of
>like the members of a family tree. When loaded into an outliner, an
>outline may be collapsed or expanded to display as few or as many levels
>as desired.

The family tree analogy is interesting; I do a lot of genealogy.

>
>There's an example of org-mode in Emacs and I like to use for notes and
>todo lists and often a mix of both that but it's not practical on a
>phone.

Emacs on a 'phone (or any word processor on a 'phone0 sounds like hard
work!

Thanks again.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove
that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are
right. -H.L. Mencken, writer, editor, and critic (1880-1956)

[Andrew Tipton]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
> >There's an example of org-mode in Emacs and I like to use for notes
> >and todo lists and often a mix of both that but it's not practical
> >on a phone.
>
> Emacs on a 'phone (or any word processor on a 'phone0 sounds like
> hard work!

No doubt!

Thankfully there is a nice (open source) orgmode app for Android that
presents a touch-friendly interface for editing orgmode-format files:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.orgzly>
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.orgzly>

I think it's a great example that shows text formats are still workable
even in the era of mobile devices and touchscreens.

--
This isn't the cryptoanarchy that I had in mind...

[Joe Beanfish]

I have gvim on my phone for dealing with vim encrypted note files
that I keep on dropbox for availability between desk and mobile.
(just keeping low-skill nosy people out, not trying to be fort knox)

[Frank Slootweg]

[Ignoring Andrew's touch aspect:]

And with 'Termux' [1], you can get most anything Unix/Linux like on
your Android device! :-) Even a real newsreader [2] and probably Emacs
as well.

[1] <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux>

[2] You 'only' have to build it youself from source. (Eli the Bearded
built trn on Termux (<news:eli$17110...@qz.little-neck.ny.us>.)

[Joe Beanfish]

Hmm, neeto. Large wiz-bang points. It makes the propeller spin fast, but
developing on a phone sounds like a task one would be assigned to in Hell™.
On a tablet might be ok.

[Frank Slootweg]

Joe Beanfish <joebe...@nospam.duh> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 16:59:13 +0000, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

> > And with 'Termux' [1], you can get most anything Unix/Linux like on
> > your Android device! :-) Even a real newsreader [2] and probably Emacs
> > as well.
> >
> > [1] <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux>
> >
> > [2] You 'only' have to build it youself from source. (Eli the Bearded
> > built trn on Termux (<news:eli$17110...@qz.little-neck.ny.us>.)
>
> Hmm, neeto. Large wiz-bang points. It makes the propeller spin fast, but

> developing on a phone sounds like a task one would be assigned to in Hell?.

> On a tablet might be ok.

Yeah, and if you get a tablet with a HDMI port you can connect your
wall-wide monitor to it! Add a Wi-Fi connected disk of a few TB or a NAS
with tens and tens of TBs and Bob is your uncle!

[Eli the Bearded]

Well, as the guy who did that, Your Hell(TM) is not Mine.

Elijah
------
trn4 was an easy port to Termux, the hardest part was sh not at /bin/sh

[Anssi Saari]

Andrew Tipton <and...@malloclabs.com> writes:

> Thankfully there is a nice (open source) orgmode app for Android that
> presents a touch-friendly interface for editing orgmode-format files:
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.orgzly>
> <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.orgzly>

Oh, I remember trying out Orgzly at some point. But it seemed abandoned
and the promised open sourcing of it hadn't happened yet either. I guess
you just solved my outliner issue for Android :)

[Andrew Tipton]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 14:39:47 +0200
Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:

> Oh, I remember trying out Orgzly at some point. But it seemed
> abandoned and the promised open sourcing of it hadn't happened yet
> either. I guess you just solved my outliner issue for Android :)

Glad to be of service!

I've been pleasantly surprised by F-Droid. I think there's at least
one open-source replacement for all of the core Google apps. I'm
slowly working towards eliminating anything that relies on the closed
"Play Services" libraries.