A bit of posting in other places and people show interest in Forth

[Jurgen Pitaske]

Saw the post of the DIY Forth here
https://hackaday.com/2021/07/08/diy-forth-on-arduino/?fbclid=IwAR2SCdWq1i8WfRyFdVb1J_GQi7uqlFDWJaQmrm4gVgmQtoBEZSL6aR9vkZ0
Posted a few links regarding Forth information.
Then checked if it has any result regarding the Forth Bookshelf - the only simple indicator I know.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/3970/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_5_last#5
And the interest shown there (as of today) jumped up to 10 of the Forth Bookshelf books .
Might not sound much - but it means 10% of the top 100 in this Compiler section for Forth.
Made my day.

[Jurgen Pitaske]

Here a quick overview of the Forth Bookshelf

The current Forth Bookshelf can be found at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM
Mostly Forth, but other books there as well that I have published.
Mostly available as eBook and as Print book

1 Charles Moore - Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language
2 Charles Moore - Programming A Problem Oriented Language: Forth - how the internals work
3 Leo Brodie - Starting Forth -The Classic
4 Leo Wong – Juergen Pintaske – Stephen Pelc FORTH LITE TUTORIAL: Code tested with free MPE VFX Forth, SwiftForth and Gforth
5 Juergen Pintaske – A START WITH FORTH - Bits to Bites Collection – 12 Words to start, then 35 Words, Javascript Forth on the Web, and more
6 Stephen Pelc - Programming Forth: Version July 2016
7 Brad Rodriguez - Moving Forth / TTL CPU / B.Y.O. Assembler
8 Tim Hentlass - Real Time Forth
9 Chen-Hanson Ting - Footsteps In An Empty Valley issue 3
10 Chen-Hanson Ting - Zen and the Forth Language: EFORTH for the MSP430G2552 from Texas Instruments
11 Chen-Hanson Ting - eForth and Zen - 3rd Edition 2017: with 32-bit 86eForth v5.2 for Visual Studio 2015
12 Chen-Hanson Ting - eForth Overview
13 Chen-Hanson Ting - FIG-Forth Manual Document /Test in 1802 IP
14 Chen-Hanson Ting - EP32 RISC Processor IP: Description and Implementation into FPGA – ASIC tested by NASA
15 Chen-Hanson Ting – Irriducible Complexity
16 Chen-Hanson Ting - Arduino controlled by eForth
17 Chen-Hanson Ting – eForth as Arduino Sketch – no Programmer needed

18 Burkhard Kainka - Learning Programming with MyCo: Learning Programming easily - independent of a PC (Forth code to follow soon)
19 Burkhard Kainka - BBC Micro:bit: Tests Tricks Secrets Code, Additional MicroBit information when running the Mecrisp Package
20 Burkhard Kainka – Thomas Baum – Web Programming ATYTINY13
21 Georg Heinrichs - The ATTINY Project – Why Forth?
22 Dr. Karl Meinzer - IPS, a Forth-like language for Space
Juergen Pintaske, publisher, July 2020

These books have been published with permission of the original authors where applicable, to make them available in one place
and might be available somewhere on the internet, but then not formatted as book as in this Forth Bookshelf.
Beginners could start with
3 this is the Forth classic
4 then go through many more examples explained
5 and get some different aspects - including running a Forth online
21 is Georg' s own Forth running on a small 20 pin 2313
22 IPS - the AMSAT radio amateur satellites used it on the basis of the RCA CDP1802, as it was available as radiation-hardened version and in SOS technology
13 want your own processor on an FPGA - why not try the 1802 and FIG Forth and then look at 14 EP32

17 there are many books that Ting wrote, but
number 17 might be a good start if you have an Arduino UNO or nano in a drawer and load the Arduino Sketch and start .
And we show how to get it going on Forth-ev.de
Just use the 39 steps here
https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:430eforth:start

[dxforth]

On 10/07/2021 19:28, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> Saw the post of the DIY Forth here
> https://hackaday.com/2021/07/08/diy-forth-on-arduino/?fbclid=IwAR2SCdWq1i8WfRyFdVb1J_GQi7uqlFDWJaQmrm4gVgmQtoBEZSL6aR9vkZ0

Complete with old chestnuts about what's wrong with Forth :)

https://hackaday.com/2021/07/08/diy-forth-on-arduino/#comment-6363039

Browsing links to earlier articles I notice our tireless c.l.f.
colleagues doing a fine job informing what's unique about Forth and
why it deserves a serious look:

https://hackaday.com/2017/01/04/browsing-forth/#comment-3370572

Interesting to see former Forth programmers coming to its defence.
Forth, it seems, is a language or perhaps idea impossible to forget.
I'd sum it up as Freedom. If it doesn't elicit a sense of freedom
in the programmer, then it's not Forth.

[luser droog]

On Saturday, July 10, 2021 at 9:22:13 PM UTC-5, dxforth wrote:
> Browsing links to earlier articles I notice our tireless c.l.f.
> colleagues doing a fine job informing what's unique about Forth and
> why it deserves a serious look:
>
> https://hackaday.com/2017/01/04/browsing-forth/#comment-3370572
>
> Interesting to see former Forth programmers coming to its defence.
> Forth, it seems, is a language or perhaps idea impossible to forget.
> I'd sum it up as Freedom. If it doesn't elicit a sense of freedom
> in the programmer, then it's not Forth.

"Freedom?"
"Freedom is a Yang worship word. You will not speak it!"




:)

[Stephen Pelc]

On 10 Jul 2021 at 13:49:24 CEST, "Jurgen Pitaske" <jpit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 6 Stephen Pelc - Programming Forth: Version July 2016

I withdrew my permission for this book to appear in your bookshelf some while
ago as you refuse to share any revenue. I wrote the book, you get the money.
Somehow you equate your cost for formatting the book to my cost for writing
it.

The book is still available for free from the MPE website.

Stephen

[Jurgen Pitaske]

MPE at the time had refused to balance my work to get it into publication,
I had even offered to hand it over if we find an agreement
and it would still be available under MPE,
and all of the revenue going to MPE.

MPE asked for revenue, and asked as well to lay open all of the details,
which I refused as we all can understand, as it was never part of the agreement.

And this cost for publication is normally balanced against any revenue that might come in.
So, it is all my risk anyway, not just for your book but for all of them there.
As we all know, the Forth community of targets is very small.

I gave MPE the sums at the time,
and any sales were very much below my cost until I would have earned any money..

How much it might have cost you to generate your book is not really relevant for me.
It is free for download for many years from different places,
and had been much longer than my publication.

People liked to have it as book in their hands, and some probably still want
- otherwise they would not have spent the money.

You wanted me to publish it at the time so I did,
planned as promotion for MPE
and the rules had been clearly discussed
and MPE had agreed.
and it was there as part of my Forth Bookshelf for quite a few years.
Without any comment from MPE.

MPE tried to change the agreement after I stopped working for MPE.

As result and based on your post here today I would be very careful to trust any MPE agreement..

As you then wanted to get money from sales before balancing my cost,
I just unpublished the book on amazon at the time
as you can see there
and MPE was informed about this ,
and you most probably checked it was correct,
as there was no communication afterwards.
It seems you forgot all of this.

Your post clearly shows that MPE did not care to check now.

If you want it removed from amazon,
you might have to buy amazon and change their publishing rules.

Their rules say that the documentation stays there, even if no direct sales possible
as it is the same marketplace used by amazon
for people who want to sell on the version they bought in the past.

But anybody interested can contact me personally,
as I still have a few of those print books from before when all of this happened.
And still have a few of the proofs.

Juergen

[Jurgen Pitaske]

And just to make it clear again:
This is a list of books I published.
This has not changed and will not change.
Oh - actually it will when I add more.
It nowhere states that they are all available to buy.
And NUMBER 6 DEFINITELY IS NOT.
As anybody interested will have seen trying to buy it for the last couple of years.

[Marcel Hendrix]

To my amazement, the bookshelf also contains significant portions
of 'Starting Forth' as published on http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf.html . The only
party that is allowed to do that is FORTH Inc., with which I have an agreement
(published on the above page).

-marcel

[Ilya Tarasov]

Yay! Where is my popcorn? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7XvA9gOCxQ

[Jurgen Pitaske]

As agreed with Forth INC. Leon Wagner many years ago before I published the eBook on amazon.
At the time they did not want to have it available as Print Book - so it is eBook only.

The same agreement exists for the PDF for download as you can see:
http://www.exemark.com/FORTH/StartingFORTHfromForthWebsitev9_2013_12_24.pdf
Just look at the bottom of the cover page.

[Jurgen Pitaske]

On Sunday, 11 July 2021 at 15:13:16 UTC+1, Marcel Hendrix wrote:

I forgot to mention, that Forth INC. signed off the complete eBook before it was published.

I do not know how you go about your business,
are you insinuating copyright violation?
I obey the copyright laws as discused here for many years.

[Jurgen Pitaske]

On Sunday, 11 July 2021 at 15:30:32 UTC+1, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> Yay! Where is my popcorn? :)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7XvA9gOCxQ

You are completely right Ilya.
Rather attack than knowing what they are talking about.

[Jurgen Pitaske]

On Sunday, 11 July 2021 at 15:30:32 UTC+1, Ilya Tarasov wrote:

> Yay! Where is my popcorn? :)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7XvA9gOCxQ

Any advertising - even a bad one - might work.
Not necessarily for Forth, but for people to find books they might want to read

So I better put the link here again what we are talking about

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM

and the relevant one as of MPE is Stephen Pelc
- not available to buy, as I unpublished it a few years ago
when MPE tried to change the agreement ...

And as of today I will definitely not recommend MPE for any consulting work.
Or as source for Forth software.
I just have to point people to this post here.

My post had been promoting Forth as I like the language - but there we are.

[Jurgen Pitaske]

Just as a proof if advertising and product placement works.

Had a look just now,
and Chucks Book that had been handed over to him during Euroforth,
is suddenly in 3rd place
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Compiler-Design/zgbs/books/3970/ref=zg_bs_pg_1?_encoding=UTF8&pg=1
Thank you very much CLF.

[Hugh Aguilar]

Juergen Pintaske is such a liar! lol
Here we have Ilya obviously not supporting Juergen, but instead laughing about
how this fight between Juergen Pintaske and Stephen Pelc becomes public
similar to a Mortal Kombat fantasy fight in front of a cheering audience.
Juergen twists this into making it seem as if Ilya is 100% supporting Juergen.
This is bullshit! (Pintaske is not similar to a bull though, so this would more accurately
be described as: pig-shit).

Consider this thread with the humorous title: "how Stephen Pelc = Victor Frankenstein"
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/c0-IVRUqDRY/m/xeCPKR75AgAJ
Here I compared Stephen Pelc to Victor Frankenstein who built a monster and was then
unable to rid himself of the monster, so he spent the rest of his life trying to chase it down
and stop it from terrorizing the community. Also, Victor Frankenstein built his monster
out of body parts from dead people --- this is similar to how Juergen PIntaske has built
his reputation out of books written in the 1970s or 1980s by people who are either now dead
or are so old and decrepit that they can no longer defend themselves against thieves
who come to steal their body parts (or, in this case, their intellectual property).

Juergen PIntaske has the soul of a parasite.
Stephen Pelc volunteered to be Juergen's host organism in the past, but now
Stephen Pelc is unable to rid himself of Juergen Pintaske.
After Stephen Pelc fired Juergen Pintaske, Juergen went to Testra and pretended
to still be employed by Stephen Pelc. Juergen convinced Tom Hart that it was necessary
for him to attack me on comp.lang.forth in order for Stephen Pelc to continue considering
the purchase of the Testra processor from Testra, so Tom Hart attacked me by telling lies
about me and flinging insults at me. There is no evidence to indicate that Stephen Pelc
ever seriously considered buying the Testra processor though. This was bullshit!
When Tom Hart agreed to attack me on Juergen Pintaske's command, Tom Hart effectively
agreed to become Juergen Pintaske's host organism. Now Tom Hart is unable to rid
himself of Juergen PIntaske --- Tom Hart will have Juergen Pintaske feeding off
him for the rest of his life --- a parasite that never goes away.
Tom Hart and Stephen Pelc have a lot in common --- they both have Juergen Pintaske
drinking their blood, and they can't rid themselves of Juergen Pintaske --- they both
have told lies about me (Tom Hart saying that I didn't write MFX and
Stephen Pelc saying that my disambiguifiers don't work).

[dxforth]

On 12/07/2021 00:13, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
>
> To my amazement, the bookshelf also contains significant portions
> of 'Starting Forth' as published on http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf.html . The only
> party that is allowed to do that is FORTH Inc., with which I have an agreement
> (published on the above page).
>
> -marcel
>

When Dreamworks lawyers come after Felix The Cat (tm) you can point them to the
publisher :)

[Marcel Hendrix]

On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 11:58:41 AM UTC+2, dxforth wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 00:13, Marcel Hendrix wrote:

[..]

> When Dreamworks lawyers come after Felix The Cat (tm) you can point them to the
> publisher :)

Felix has worked for over 14 years already without drawing attention.
He was an icon in my youth, does anybody remember him nowadays?

-marcel

[dxforth]

Has Mickey Mouse (tm) fallen out of favour? There's always a new
generation to profit from.