[C320-list] Head Replacement

[Jeff Smith via C320-list]

To all,

I am interested to know what the advantages may be to replacing the standard Jabsco manual head with the Raritan PHII head? I am also replacing the waste tank and all hoses, so now is the best time to make the change if it is warranted. If it helps, we sail on the Chesapeake Bay, and we do not use Bay water to flush the toilet. The price difference is about $300 (Jabsco $290 versus $590 for the Raritan). I am having a hard time picturing $300 of value from another toilet, but that is why I am asking the question.

One other question, if I may. Has anyone replaced the 1/2” vent with the 3/4” vent while the boat is in the water? Is it as simple as just drilling the larger sized hole and reinserting the vent (appropriately sealed to prevent leaking) and securing from inside the boat?

Thanks in advance,
Jeff, #121

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Jeff-
A previous owner replaced my tank with a larger one.  I replaced every hose (water supply, waste and vent) in an attempt to get rid of prevalent smell.  I did not change the vent. I found the original vent hose was loose on the vent fitting inside the boat due to the size disparity (3/4 hose on 1/2 fitting). So, I used an adapter to reduce the hose size so the hose clamped tight on the fitting, 
My work helped but did not eliminate odor. I attribute part of that to an undersized vent fitting (as has been repeatedly reported). So, I strongly recommend you also replace the vent fitting while you do your work. I see no reason why that cannot  be done in the water .... just need a larger hole in the hull.  Please let me know exactly what fitting you use and what if any difficulty you encounter!  I have talked about replacing my fitting many times ...  but still haven't  gotten to it.
I am convinced that some of my ongoing odor issue may relate to the tank. Since the tank was upsized by a previous owner, I suspect the original tank may have been overfilled and leaked. I suspect the leakage filtered throughout the structural grid and was never completely cleaned out. I have not wanted to flood the boat intentionally with cleaning solution in an attempt at to resolve this, since I have been successful in getting my bilge absolutely dry. 
One other issue is the toilet itself.  I have replaced joker valves but not rebuilt anything else on the toilet since it still works well. I have read smells can come from leakage related to the pump.  I don't detect any on mine.  Several people have reported they bought and installed completely  new toilets at prices almost the same as buying rebuild kits. 
Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32
Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Sun, Jan 19, 2025 at 8:48 AM, Jeff Smith via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: To all-

[Rob Evans via C320-list]

Nature’s Head compostable toilet sits squarely where the old toilet sat. The tank is then removed and makes room for a third battery.
Rob Evans
Take 2, 1998

> On Jan 19, 2025, at 8:26 AM, Dave Hupe via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff-

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Rob-
Discuss odor and maintenance between the standard and the compostable please.  
Thanks,

Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32

[Rob Evans via C320-list]

No odor. There is a 1.5 W exhaust fan, the size of a quarter, that vents into the old pump out hose. You remove (and Stow) the old pump out screw cap up on the deck, and caulk a natures Head mushroom vent right on top of the vent, and smoosh it onto the deck. The mushroom cap is threaded, on 1/4 inch nut built into the mechanism, so that in heavy seas, you simply thread it tight against an O-ring so it does not leak. When you are at anchor, you open it up again so that it can breathe. We keep a covered trashcan under the sink, for toilet paper. And the urine goes into a separate tank as well. The technology is obvious, you keep the three products separate, and there is no odor. You dumped the full urine container about twice a week, and can go weeks without emptying the solids out of their PeatMoss, or Coconut shell matrix.
Rob Evans
r...@donutman.com

> On Jan 19, 2025, at 10:44 AM, Dave Hupe via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
>  Rob-

[Rob Evans via C320-list]

The only picture I have is from my old installation on my C 25



> On Jan 19, 2025, at 12:55 PM, Rob Evans <robertcha...@icloud.com> wrote:
> No odor. There is a 1.5 W exhaust fan, the size of a quarter, that vents into the old pump out hose. You remove (and Stow) the old pump out screw cap up on the deck, and caulk a natures Head mushroom vent right on top of the vent, and smoosh it onto the deck. The mushroom cap is threaded, on 1/4 inch nut built into the mechanism, so that in heavy seas, you simply thread it tight against an O-ring so it does not leak. When you are at anchor, you open it up again so that it can breathe. We keep a covered trashcan under the sink, for toilet paper. And the urine goes into a separate tank as well. The technology is obvious, you keep the three products separate, and there is no odor. You dumped the full urine container about twice a week, and can go weeks without emptying the solids out of their PeatMoss, or Coconut shell matrix.

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

A question: How do you keep a composting toilet clean without pumping water in the bowl?

Jack Brennan
Sionas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.

________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Rob Evans via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2025 3:32 PM
To: C320...@catalina320.com <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Rob Evans <robertcha...@icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Head Replacement

[Arthurpiotrowski via C320-list]

Well, we use a large size coffee filters, they drop (with the content) to the solids tank and get decomposed. The most important benefit is no odor, coconut shavings is the only thing we smell 😎

Art Piotrowski
„Maggie”, 1996 C320, #330
Old Saybrook, CT

> On Jan 19, 2025, at 6:06 PM, Jack Brennan via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> A question: How do you keep a composting toilet clean without pumping water in the bowl?

[Doug Treff via C320-list]

Jeff,

I replaced my factory 1/2" vent with a 3/4" right-angle mushroom fitting. While I was at it, I also replaced the original 3/4" hose with a new one just because... In addition to the hose being 3/4, and the fitting only being 1/2", the other part of the problem with the factory fitting is that it has a screen that tends to get clogged. Especially if you accidentally allow your tank to get completely full and sewage is forced out through the vent.

I used a Dremel tool from the outside to open up the hole because I didn't have a large drill bit or a way to center a hole saw in the existing hole. On the inside, I had to use the Dremel to cut away some fiberglass to get access to the fitting on the inside. It was not really difficult but cutting fiberglass is messy and the dust will get everywhere. And of course, I chose a 90-degree day to do the work, so it was unpleasant to say the least. The fiberglass dust stuck to my sweaty skin. VERY uncomfortable! If you can do it on a cold-weather day, you can cover up all your exposed skin to limit itchy fiberglass dust from getting on you. Wear a mask and goggles to prevent breathing the dust, and plan on spending a day cleaning up dust from the interior of your boat when the job is complete. After all the cutting and grinding are done to get access, you can install the fitting, put the mushroom fitting in place, and bed it properly, then tighten the nut on the inside. After that's done, the right angle fitting can be installed and the hose connected. It sounds way easier than it is in reality. ;-)

Keep in mind that over the years, Catalina made changes to the fitment and installation of the head components. In my case (1996 Hull #350), I had to remove my medicine cabinet completely to get access to the area in question.

In the end, it did help with the odor quite a bit, along with a switch to NoFlex Digestor for my holding tank treatment chemical. My original factory 1/2" fitting with screen was severely clogged and the tank was unable to breathe which will always result in odor problems. Now, I only occasionally get a whiff of odor in the cockpit when flushing, but it IS a sewage tank, so I'm not expecting sunshine and daisies.

As a general practice, before I do a pump out, I use a garden hose to squirt the vent and force a bit of water into the vent to clean it before pumping the tank. Then, when pumping, you can hear the sound of the water being pulled out of the vent into the tank. In the 6 years since my modification, I've not had any clogging issues in the vent line, so I'm not sure a screen is necessary. If you live in an area where mud dauber bees are active, be sure to keep an eye on the vent.

From a previous post in this forum, I found my original notes with the parts that I used:

> I called Forespar to discuss my situation and they recommended that I purchase 2 parts as follows: 906012 and 901007. The first part is a 3/4" threaded thru-hull without the hose barb on it. The second part is a 90° fitting with female threads that will thread onto the male threads on the inside of the thru-hull. The non-threaded end of the elbow has a 3/4 hose barb on it.
>
> Links to parts here:
>
> https://www.forespar.com/product556.html
> https://www.forespar.com/product482.html
--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

I found this $7 fitting that I plan to install. It accepts 3/4" I.D.  hose. I think i may only need to enlarge the mount hole slightly. https://www.amazon.com/Seachoice-18121-Degree-Thru-Hull-Connector/dp/B0006ZCFAW/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_pd_sbs_rvi_d_sccl_2_27/131-0998095-3293509?pd_rd_w=ztyuv&content-id=amzn1.sym.46e2be74-be72-4d3f-86e1-1de279690c4e&pf_rd_p=46e2be74-be72-4d3f-86e1-1de279690c4e&pf_rd_r=EXJQ1QVKD30A1DQED5ED&pd_rd_wg=AR5i7&pd_rd_r=363e9eb2-4cf1-4b0f-a2b6-8a3258dd93aa&pd_rd_i=B0C5SXQ8H4&th=1

Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32


Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 11:42 AM, Doug Treff via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: Jeff,

[Greg Arnold via C320-list]

I recently upgraded the holding tank vent on my boat:

1.  Using a hole saw, I drilled a new hole for the bigger vent a few
inches aft of the old vent,  then I plugged the old vent. Very easy and
clean -- a 10 minute job.  No grinding.  In fact, on my boat grinding
out the old hole would not have worked, because the old vent is too
close to a bulkhead to insert a larger vent.

2.  My boat (a 2005) has a 3/4" NPT thread at the Ronco holding tank. 
Despite the nomenclature, the hole at the tank is about 1".  You can
install a 3/4" NPT x 1" right angle fitting at the tank, attach a 1"
hose to it, and run that hose to a 1" mushroom fitting at the toerail. 
This gives you a vent arrangement whose inside diameter is never smaller
than 3/4".

3.  I used this mushroom vent at the toerail, which is available from
various sources -- swellwake.com/products/elbow-thru-hull-1-in. To my
eye, the stainless finish looks good, and the 1" mushroom vent at the
toerail does not appear excessively large. The old vent was this one,
which has two very small slits for ventilation and is entirely
inappropriate for a holding tank vent --
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-42/interior/plumbing/tank-vent-fitting-c-320-c-28-c-42-holding-tank/.

4.  The hardest part of the vent upgrade?  Removing the medicine chest
above the toiletto get access to the mushroom vent inside the boat. 
This is difficult because the medicine chest has two vent hoses inside
it.  I just removed the vent hoses, and then secured them to the hull
outboard of the medicine chest.  Now, you can easily remove the medicine
chest by unscrewing 4 screws.  This also gives you room inside the
medicine chest to store things like toilet paper and NoFlex Digestor
(which seems quite effective).

Greg Arnold
La Mer, 2005 C320 #1054
So Cal

[Jeff Smith via C320-list]

Greg and Doug,

Thanks for the great ideas. I am initially intrigued by the composting
head. When I removed my old tank, it had partially (if at all) dissolved
toilet paper, and it was a general mess.

Additionally, after spending the better part of 18 hours during the 2022
Vic-Maui race cleaning black water out of the boat (ran right past our food
stores) and repairing the entire head system (“flushable” wipe blocked the
discharge hose necessitating that we use a bucket for almost a day), I am
interested in storing as little black water in the boat as possible. The
admiral, as of now, is unconvinced. So, I may be doing this upgrade soon.

Thanks again to all for the great info.

Jeff, #121

[Rob Evans via C320-list]

Rob Evans
The picture of the compostable toilet is from my C 25. The C320 sits slightly higher, fine for adults but little children might need help in getting up there and using it properly. The other two images are how I used the space after the tank was removed. Extra battery and wiring.

> On Jan 21, 2025, at 1:38 PM, Jeff Smith via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Greg and Doug,

[bruceheyman via C320-list]

Hi All,That looks like the one that I switched to as well. I also replaced the vent hose with sanitation hose instead of the "fresh water" hose.BruceSomerset Los Angeles #671

[--Bill via C320-list]

Question for those replacing the vent with a thru hull—will you need something to prevent water from back flowing into the tank when well heeled?

—Bill Ackerman
#240
Gulfport, Fl

> On Jan 22, 2025, at 8:03 AM, bruceheyman via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi All,That looks like the one that I switched to as well. I also replaced the vent hose with sanitation hose instead of the "fresh water" hose.BruceSomerset Los Angeles #671

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Bill-
Altough having a smaller opening, the standard vent also is the same. There is no backflow prevention.

Dave  Hupe 
1994 C320 #32

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 4:13 AM, --Bill via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: Question for those replacing the vent with a thru hull—will you need something to prevent water from back flowing into the tank when well heeled?

[Randy B via C320-list]

I'm considering replacing the head with an electric macerator type. Does
anyone have experience with this type of unit? The Jabsco series 37010
seem to rate quite well. Also, I've heard that sea water flushing can
cause odors no matter what you do and the only way to really prevent that
is to plumb fresh water to an electric macerator head. My concern is the
amount of water they use. Looks like 1-2 litres per flush. I think you'd
pretty much have to have a water maker to be on the hook for any length of
time. Thoughts?

Thanks, Randy #1088

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

We always collect used fresh water in the head sink, then scoop it into the toilet with a plastic cup when we need to flush. Works fine.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 310
Tierra Verde, Fl.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy A32 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Randy B via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Date: 1/22/25 11:33 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Cc: Randy B <rand...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Head Replacement

[mikecolleran--- via C320-list]

I replaced a manual Jabsco with a Dometic electric last year plumbed to sea water and using a commoderizer for odor.  I am very happy so far.
MikeSea GlassNo. 805


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

[P.F. Ross via C320-list]

Mike C, had never heard of a commoderizer, thanks for reference.

Did your boat come with an inline strainer on the sea water line? Or maybe
it was part of the Dometic installation? In any case, where do you have
your strainer/commoderizer installed?

Frank Ross
Beta Wave #206

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 12:46 PM mikecolleran--- via C320-list <

[mikecolleran--- via C320-list]

Hi.  There was an existing in-line strainer.  I plumbed from there to the pump on the toilet, then to a vented loop, then to the commoderizer, then to the toilet bowl.
Mike

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

On Wednesday, January 22, 2025, 10:02 AM, P.F. Ross <pfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mike C, had never heard of a commoderizer, thanks for reference.
Did your boat come with an inline strainer on the sea water line?  Or maybe it was part of the Dometic installation?  In any case, where do you have your strainer/commoderizer installed?

Frank RossBeta Wave #206

[B. Stumpp via C320-list]

Has anyone replaced the Catalina original smaller-size head with something
that has a larger/standard size seat?

If so, what did you use?



Bruce Stumpp

Middle River, Maryand

Adventure, #647

[Kim Chapman via C320-list]

Have a look at the Raritan Elegance. These require pressurized fresh water.
We love it. You might think you're on a mega yacht. Earn big points with
the admiral.

Kim Chapman
C320 #416 Sanity
C400 #249 Quiescence


On Wed, Jan 22, 2025, 11:34 a.m. Randy B via C320-list <

[Troy Dunn via C320-list]

Bruce

I followed Doug Treff's route and replaced the original Jabsco with a
Dometic Electric flush, full sized bowl. I also switched to fresh water
to flush. Pictures in my gallery
https://c320.org/mediagallery/album.php?aid=377&page=1

Troy Dunn
Hull#514

[Randy B via C320-list]

Hi Troy,
Which Dometic toilet model is that? Looks like it has a full sized bowl
and it fits quite nicely.
Thanks, Randy Spirit Bear #1088

[Doug Treff via C320-list]

Randy,

It's the Dometic MasterFlush 7120.

Here's a link to the original C320 thread where I wrote up my project.

You can find my write-up here in the archives:
https://groups.google.com/g/c320-list/c/uWxi86DfxAc/m/wlRoCynlAgAJ

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Doug Treff via C320-list]

It appears that Defender no longer carries the 7120 model, there may be a newer one from Dometic. Research will be needed.

I will also note that this toilet model had two heights available at the time I did this project. Because the C320 head sits on a raised area, I selected the medium height 7120 toilet, 12V, Fresh Water Flush model. The regular height would have had all but the tallest people with their feet dangling. We did lots of measurements and mock-ups. The admiral requested medium height. However, It looks like the medium height may be discontinued. You may want to contact Masterflush to ask questions.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[mikecolleran--- via C320-list]

I installed the 7260.

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

I am planning to replace my existing waste tank vent fitting on the starboard side (1/2" hose attachment that is undersized compared to the 3/4" hose exiting the waste tank, and it has a restricted outer cap opening).  A larger diameter vent has been recommended by/successful for many to help eliminate odor. I did a good bit of recent investigation and found/purchased a couple inexpensive replacement one-piece, 90-degree bend, 3/4" vent options.
This $7 Seachoice fitting accepts a 3/4" hose and has a completely open exit https://www.amazon.com/Seachoice-18121-Degree-Thru-Hull-Connector/dp/B0006ZCFAW/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_pd_sbs_rvi_d_sccl_2_27/131-0998095-3293509?pd_rd_w=ztyuv&content-id=amzn1.sym.46e2be74-be72-4d3f-86e1-1de279690c4e&pf_rd_p=46e2be74-be72-4d3f-86e1-1de279690c4e&pf_rd_r=EXJQ1QVKD30A1DQED5ED&pd_rd_wg=AR5i7&pd_rd_r=363e9eb2-4cf1-4b0f-a2b6-8a3258dd93aa&pd_rd_i=B0C5SXQ8H4&th=1   I believe it will fit perfectly in the limited space above/behind our medicine cabinet. However, I will likely need to enlarge the hull's hole slightly (probably to 1.25" diameter compared to the hole for the existing fitting that I think is 3/4" diameter). 
This photo album shows the existing 90-degree bend, 1/2" black fitting available from Catalina Direct and its restricted outer cap (see it both removed and installed in the photos). The other photos show the white Seachoice fitting immediately under the standard black fitting.  The overall length/depth of penetration of the white fitting is almost identical to the standard one. So, it should easily install in older hull number boats like mine (1994) that have limited space for the fitting inside the hull cavity.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/UfpiTpVzHYS5ndo2A     Other posts suggest later boats have more room. 
Another possible $11 fitting I found is this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BCDFHKRQ/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9ocXBfc2hhcmVk   It is shown in several of the album's photos ..... it is the largest (needing 1" more depth to install). However, it is much more robust and has an attractive outer stainless-steel ring/bezel. It also would require a 1.25" diameter hole for mounting.
I intend to open up the cavity above/behind my medicine chest to determine how much room I actually have.  I intend to install the beefier black $11 fitting if space permits but will otherwise install the $7 Seachoice fitting. At the same time, I will install a new 3/4" vent hose between the tank and new vent (eliminating the hose that I used a 3/4" to 1/2" reducer on due to the prior incompatible standard/undersized fitting). 
I am optimistic this will eliminate odors I have been unable to get rid of after having already replaced all my waste and vent hoses. 

Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32

Holland, MI

[Roger Sullivan via C320-list]

Hi Jeff,
How high is the Nature's Head on the standard 320 head mount - is it like
climbing onto a horse, or is it an OK height?
Roger

On Sun, Jan 19, 2025 at 6:56 AM Rob Evans via C320-list <
c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

>
> Nature’s Head compostable toilet sits squarely where the old toilet sat.
> The tank is then removed and makes room for a third battery.
> Rob Evans
> Take 2, 1998
>

> > On Jan 19, 2025, at 8:26 AM, Dave Hupe via C320-list <

> > Dave Hupe
> > 1994 C320 #32

> > Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer
> >

> > On Sun, Jan 19, 2025 at 8:48 AM, Jeff Smith via C320-list<
> c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: To all-

[SV Osprey via C320-list]

What do you all think of this list I have on my phone? It’s mainly to avoid forgetting to do something and then remembering it in the middle of a busy channel.

Boarding Boat to Go Sailing:
◦ Red line to cleat
◦ Unlock boat, stow boards
◦ Change to boat shoes
◦ Glasses, phone, knife, drink at nav station, gloves
◦ Check weather and wind. Preposition hat and rain jacket if necessary
◦ Open INAV
◦ Life vest, throw out of locker and in cockpit.
◦ hook up Jack lines if relevant
◦ Battery switch to “one”
◦ 12v, make sure refrigerator is always on
◦ Key from hook and in ignition, stop cable disengaged
◦ Electronics on: auto helm, coms, autopilot. Radio on
◦ Remote auto around neck
◦ Remove sailcover and wheelcover
◦ Remove first two sail ties.
◦ Start engine- observe water flow
◦ Untangle all lines led aft and lead down companionway
◦ Check wind and tide. Make sure coast is clear.
◦ Untie all lines but “cheatsheat” ( red line). cast off last when ready to depart

Elan
Sv Osprey
1997 Catalina 320 #451

> On Feb 23, 2025, at 2:24 PM, Roger Sullivan via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,

[Allan Field via C320-list]

Airline pilots are anal checklist users as they know that they are the
first one's at the scene of the accident? Some random additional thoughts:
Disconnect shore power cord *after* shutting off dock circuit breaker.
Check engine coolant oil.
Check engine coolant level via expansion tank.
Check transmission oil level.
All thru hulls open?
All lines onboard, none over the side before engaging transmission?
Main halyard affixed to mainsail?
Boat hook handy for if needed?
Where are the jib sheets? (Ours are coiled on the bow pulpit, not brought
back aft until away from the dock as one less thing to trip over or run
into while leaving the dock.)
Flags out (if any)?
Winches in cockpit?
Instrument and winch covers stowed?
Battery SOC (State of Charge) checked?
Bilge checked?
Deck and side hatches closed and dogged?
Cockpit lockers unlocked?
Anchor lashed down so it won't accidentally disengage?
Sufficient fresh water on board in tanks?
Sufficient fuel on board?
VHF radio check if possible, like through a backup handheld.

Hope these help!
Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - C387, #103 (formerly C320, #808)
Columbia, MD