[C320-list] Electric head

[Michael Ferguson]

Curious has anyone installed an electric head in the 320. Michael

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[Scott Lagerquist]

Michael,

I put an electric head in last year. I have a lot of pictures if you’d like. I had to replace my holding tank because it was only 12 gallons. I followed Warren Updikes advice on his article for that and it was very helpful. The head works great so far. Let me know if you have any questions. My email is lgr...@aol.com.

Scott Lagerquist
Sea Esta, 1994 C320, #39
Silver Gate Yacht Club
San Diego CA

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 6, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Michael Ferguson <cora...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> 

[ks...@aol.com]

I put one in a few years ago with advice from others on the list.  The two key items for me was 1) finding a toilet that allowed the proper positioning without having to re-run the waste hose run;  and 1) tying in the electric to the macerator pump circuit after blowing the breaker when I tried to use the circuit for the shower sump pump.  For my non-boating family an electric toilet is a game-changer.  I went for fresh water operation.  Neil Kornblatt Harmony #973 2004.

[Doug Treff]

I went with the Dometic Masterflush - freshwater flush. It's fantastic and an easy install.

A plus - it has the approval of the Admiral. ;-)

I have a few pictures if interested.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Chris Burti]

Doug,
I’d like to see the pictures. Can you post them to the website?

Best Regards,
Chris Burti
Statewide Title, Inc.

> On Jun 7, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Doug Treff <do...@treff.us> wrote:
>
> I went with the Dometic Masterflush - freshwater flush. It's fantastic and an easy install.

[Jeffrey Brown]

Doug
You indicated you use fresh water for the flush. How is that plumbed to allow for freshwater instead of seawater?

Best regards,

Jeffrey Brown
(949) 350-5123

[Michael Ferguson]

Doug whicj model did you use.Michael

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 9:43 PM, Jeffrey Brown<ocean...@mac.com> wrote: Doug

[Doug Treff]

There were many questions to me about this, some were posted to the list, others were privately sent to me. I'll attempt to answer all of the questions here:

I was trying to create an album on the C320 site and I've been getting upload errors. Those of you who asked me for pictures, I will send them in a private email. I've reached out to Jeff to see why I can't upload.

Before I get into the question and answer, I'll make the following observations:
- I can go considerably longer between pump-outs because these toilets take much less water to flush than the hand-pump style ones. So you're putting less water in the waste tank with each flush. Dometic says that for flushing liquids, you can get away with a short flush of only 0.3 gallons.

- Toilet odors are almost nonexistent with freshwater flushing.

- I have definitely noticed that we are going through freshwater more quickly - as expected. I've gotten in the habit of topping up the water tanks after every sail if we use the head a lot. It would be quite unpleasant to run out of water and have no means of flushing. I suppose if that happened, you could start dumping buckets of seawater in the bowl and flush that way, but then you'll be introducing the odor problem again.


1. I bought the following: Defender item number: 502340HSB-12 which is the Dometic MasterFlush 7120. This model is the oval bowl which is way more comfortable than the standard round marine head. It's really nice to sit on an oval bowl that is the same size as the toilet at home. I also bought the flush switch upgrade kit which is Defender item number 503550. The Dometic guy at the boat show told me it was functionally the same as buying the larger switch panel that had two rocker switches in it, and also less expensive. You can see in my photos that I mounted the switches side-by-side on the curved wall below the sink.

2. The toilet has a rotating bowl that is infinitely adjustable. You just loosen a very large "hose clamp" that goes around the base and the bowl can be oriented in any position. As you can see from the photos, the macerator motor is oriented to the right and the discharge hose comes out the back. Picture 20180903_074149 is a view from the aft side of the toilet base looking forward so you can see how it fits against the curved hull. There is plenty of room to mount the toilet this way. I also took the opportunity to replace all of my discharge hoses. In the rear, I used a very short piece of hose to attach the elbow to the toilet, and then the discharge runs to the right just like my previous toilet. In the same photo, you can kind of see the discharge hose and how I did it. I highly recommend you use some type of lube on the inside of the discharge hoses in case you ever need to disassemble things to replace the joker valve. If you need more pictures, I can supply them. No spacers or adapters were necessary to get the toilet to fit in this position.

3. The feature that sold me on this model was the excellent reviews online and the rotating base which allowed infinite adjustability in positioning the toilet. I'm very OCD and it always bothered me that the toilet in my boat was not "square" with the back wall of the head compartment. With this model, I'm able to position it exactly as I wanted.

4. I wouldn't change a thing. Completely happy with my choice, and I would do it all the same again. I did have an issue after about a month where the freshwater solenoid stopped working. I called Dometic for warranty support and they sent out a brand new solenoid free of charge. I was impressed...

Additional things that I think are useful, but you didn't ask...

A. I used the wiring that was already under the head compartment to power the toilet. In my boat, the shower drain sump pump is on the same circuit as the pressure water pump. You can see the switch panel in my photos. I couldn't envision a time when I would be running water, draining the shower, and flushing the toilet simultaneously, so I figured that there was little chance of overloading the circuit. So far I have had no issues with tripping the circuit breaker. As you can see, I used some black wire-loom to conceal the wiring and wire-tied it to the freshwater hose for neatness.

B. In the aft cabin, you can remove the drawers on the wall between the cabin and the head, and then remove the screws in the frame surrounding the drawer compartment. This allows the frame to be removed and gives you good access to the area underneath the head sink for running wires, new hoses, etc.

C. For the water supply, I installed a tee in the cold water line (blue pipes) and connected the freshwater hose to the toilet from there. Luckily, the previous owner had left me with an entire toolbox of plumbing parts, including all of the whale fittings I needed for this project. I also installed a check valve between the toilet and the water supply line to prevent backflow from the toilet into the water system. I used a Shurflo model 340-001 check valve for this purpose. I also installed a

D. When installing the toilet, it's useful to know that there is a solid piece of wood under the toilet mounting area. All I had to do was drill appropriately sized holes for lag bolts, and my stainless steel lag bolts secured the toilet very nicely. No need to figure out how to get under there to put nuts on the underside. It's VERY solid and feels secure when I sit down on it. The only thing I have left to do (and you'll see in the pictures) is to do a proper repair with Gelcoat and sand smooth to conceal the holes from the old head.


--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Jeffrey Brown]

Doug
Thanks for the detailed report on this. I was considering plumbing my existing toilet to the fresh water tanks and when I brought it up to the group I received multiple emails from our members indicating that its not a good idea, with concerns of cross contamination of your fresh water supply. So, how did you plumb it to ensure no cross contamination or did you not do anything special for that, just plumbed it to the fresh water line off the sink? Please let me know. I want to setup mine just as you have.


Jeff Brown
"Out of the blue" Dana Point, CA
Catalina 320, Hull 78
(949) 350-5123
ocean...@mac.com

[ks...@aol.com]

I followed almost all Doug's advice including the Dometic model.  I chose to use the "double switch" offered by Dometic and frankly I find advantages and disadvantages so that one is a close call.  Also, as I mentioned previously, I had to go with using my boat's macerator circuit rather than the shower sump pump circuit because I was tripping the breaker otherwise.  Doug, thank you again for your great advice!  Neil Kornblatt #973 Harmony.

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Treff <do...@treff.us>
To: c320...@lists.catalina320.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 8, 2020 10:20 am
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electric head

[Doug Treff]

Jeff,

In my detailed email, under letter C, I listed the following:

"I also installed a check valve between the toilet and the water supply line to prevent backflow from the toilet into the water system. I used a Shurflo model 340-001 check valve for this purpose."

I scoured the documentation for any such requirements but found none. I installed the check valve anyway. Because of the way this is plumbed, there is a slight chance that if the toilet were clogged and an ill-informed operator was to fill the bowl all the way to the rim, it's theoretically possible to have contaminated water in contact with the freshwater. The backflow/check valve will prevent this.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Chris Burti]

Thanks Doug.

Best Regards,
Chris Burti


> On Jun 8, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Doug Treff <do...@treff.us> wrote:
>
> Jeff,

[Doug Treff]

Jeff,

Also, note that the MF7120 toilet that I used is designed to be used with pressurized freshwater as the flush media. If you were talking about connecting freshwater to a toilet that was designed for raw water flushing, that could be the reason they were concerned.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Joe Luciano]

I’m not looking to rain any anyone’s parade, but I would be concerned about relying on a single check valve as a way of preventing contamination of my domestic water system with toilet water. Check valves are notorious for having a tendency to leak. On a system where even a slight leak can result in health problems, I would consider alternatives….. I worked in the oil refining business for a long time and when hooking up utility systems like water and steam that you absolutely wanted to avoid contamination with process oil streams, as a minimum we used two check valves in series and preferred some sort of positive isolation when the system was not being used. I’d be careful here.

Joe Luciano
2005 C-320

[Gary Guilbeaux]

Hi Michael,

I did a variety of upgrades to my head, including an electric toilet.
I put in a Jabsco Lite Flush Compact Marine Electric Toilet with Foot
Control (Model 58500-0012). It uses sea water (lake water in my case) and
is easy to use, but it's not real water efficient and I wish I would have
gone with a larger oblong type for better comfort. The Dometic unit Doug
installed may be a better choice. I've uploaded pictures here:

https://c320.org/mediagallery/admin.php?album_id=373&mode=media

Other head upgrades include a back splash that replaces one of the mirrors,
a new single handle faucet, fabric curtains, teak shower mat, and water
level sensor display.

Gary Guilbeaux
Lil' Bit of Paradise, 1999 C320 #634
Austin, TX

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 10:23 AM Michael Ferguson <cora...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

[Michael Ferguson]

Thanks Gary. Looks greatMichael

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On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 2:20 PM, Gary Guilbeaux<gguil...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Michael,

[Doug Treff]

Joe,

I would agree with you, which is why I feel that I'm covered. Note that the Dometic instructions did not call for the backflow preventer, so I've gone beyond the recommended configuration for a belt and suspenders approach.

The toilet has an electric solenoid valve which is normally closed, and the backflow preventer is in-line as well. This gives me the double protection you recommend. I would need both of those devices to fail simultaneously to contaminate my water supply. I like my chances. And if my solenoid valve were to be stuck in the open position, I would know right away and can easily shut off the water supply to the head.


--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us

[Jack Brennan]

Doug:

I’m always a little afraid of high-tech solutions because so much stuff breaks on boats. Is there a way to flush the head manually if something goes wrong so you don’t have to use the old oaken bucket that was standard on old-time boats?

I agree on the use of freshwater. What we do is allow it to build up in the head sink from washing, shaving, brushing our teeth, etc. When we need to use the head, we keep a plastic cup nearby to pour it in.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.

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[Jason Reynolds]

Doug,

My name is Jason Reynolds and I am the Mainsheet technical editor. There has been a lot of discussion about your electric head project. Would you be interested in submitting it for publication in Mainsheet? If you are interested, I would be happy to discuss more with you as well as help prepare it.

Jason Reynolds
S/v Affinity #68


Sent from my iPhone

[Doug Treff]

Jack,

Yes, there is a "pump dry" option if you buy the optional switch panel. This runs the macerator pump and pumps the bowl dry without adding water from the supply.

However, there's no provision for a manual flush if the macerator pump fails. That might be a spare worth carrying if you're traveling to destinations where parts are not easily found.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us