wikified list of stakeholder organizations

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Michel Bauwens

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Apr 15, 2011, 10:45:26 PM4/15/11
to The Next Net

Poor Richard

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Apr 16, 2011, 12:47:08 AM4/16/11
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I've raised this issue before but I want to do it again in a little greater depth.

Arguably wikis are databases where the predominant data type is a document (page) and the predominant data structure within a document is the outline.

In the p2pf wiki, lists and parts of lists of infrastructure layers, platforms, projects, applications, tools, stakeholders, specs, reviews, links, etc get instantiated over and over again in different places. In addition, similar lists get instantiated in other wikis, blogs, groups, etc. This creates a growing problem for maintaining and coordinating or synchronizing such lists.

I am trying to envision a solution to this maintenance and coordination problem. So far, I am thinking that a spreadsheet platform is generally better than a wiki for maintaining lists. The wiki structure is an outline. The spreadsheet structure is a matrix (rows & columns) which can be quickly re-sorted on any column. In this way, lists and sub-lists can be grouped or arranged by sharing a value in some column, say a column that contains a category, osi layer, or a wiki page url.

All the lists which occur in various wiki pages in various different wikis and in various other venues could conceivably be aggregated in a master spreadsheet using an online spreadsheet platform like google docs or wikiCalc.

It should not be too difficult through the use of spreadsheet macros (or API's and middleware) to propagate spreadsheet updates to the various wikis and other venues where list elements are "subscribed" for automatic synchronization.

Addressing the list update/maintenance problem is not the only benefit such a consolidated list spreadsheet database might offer. It could also aid in the process of taxonomizing and analyzing the list data and sorting list elements (such as social networking platforms or stakeholder organizations) by various user-selected criteria rather than the default criteria assumed by a particular list or wiki page curator. Different users might easily create different "views" of the spreadsheet by hiding columns and sorting on particular columns.

One potential scaling problem with a spreadsheet is that there tends to be a lot of data duplication (e.g. the same category label, feature, or url may reoccur in many rows). If the project became so big that it created a performance problem, or if there were hosting, administration, or security issues, a google spreadsheet could later be migrated to a relational database platform. In that event, various users could customize their own user interfaces (forms, views, reports, etc.).

Does this resonate with others?

PR

Venessa Miemis

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Apr 16, 2011, 8:40:14 AM4/16/11
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yeah, a spreadsheet is good for lists.

i guess what's still needed on top of that (and the wiki) is a clean,
simple to understand and navigate UI.

i have been in discussion with the folks who built the ideas project
website (http://ideasproject.com/index.jspa), which is all
semantically linked, so for example, it could be built so that it
showed all organizations, and then listed specific projects they are
working on or in support of or things they are associated with. the
same way, you could search by project, and see what other similar
projects/related projects were out there, and what issues the project
was seeking to solve.

in my mind, this would be a great solution, allowing the info from all
these places to pipe in.... automatically updating blog posts from all
the different sites and providing a snapshot overview of the entire
ecosystem, and making it very easy for projects and people to become
aware of one another and share data instead of duplicating it over and
over.

this is a much bigger project than creating a spreadsheet, but it's
something that would be nice. i love the p2p foundation site, it's
absolutely packed with gold, but it is a bit overwhelming to
understand where to look and to get context. the thing i'm envisioning
would be a lot of work to set up, but then it would be intelligent.
for example, as we've had the conversation many times about how to
evaluate projects or break down the criteria about them.... if these
values were defined, they could then be entered into this database,
and it would show you the 9 projects that were related/similar/
identical. it just seems that if there was more granular information
about all of this, and it was openly available and easy to navigate,
we'd have a much more effective method of allocating resources to
efforts that will go furthest.

- v

Robert Steele

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Apr 16, 2011, 9:17:17 AM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
very nice.  New Software Foundation should be Free Software Foundation, I believe.

You are the architect--maybe the way to do it is to have a cross-walk page, although I thought the Autonomous Internet Roadmap cover page was structured to do that, perhaps not.  I believe the missing link now is to things you can hold in your hand and actually "do" autonomous internet.  That might be considered "root" and lead back to all of the different pages you already have.

Robert Steele

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Apr 16, 2011, 9:32:22 AM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
this sounds like a relational database.  I know nothing of Microsoft Access, but until he died in Australia, my favorite open source intelligence pioneer was using that to produce the global intelligence report across 30 factors, a sample is attached.  It included the ability to weight any element in relation to all other elements in the same row or column.
PDBweekly20071203.pdf

Poor Richard

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Apr 16, 2011, 10:21:41 AM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
Venessa,

your remarks have really fired me up. Inline responses:


On Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:40:14 AM UTC-5, Venessa Miemis wrote:
yeah, a spreadsheet is good for lists.

yeah, but not for what we are talking about now.
 
i guess what's still needed on top of that (and the wiki) is a clean,
simple to understand and navigate UI.

or better yet, a database that would allow users to create multiple UI's
 
i have been in discussion with the folks who built the ideas project
website (http://ideasproject.com/index.jspa), which is all
semantically linked, so for example, it could be built so that it
showed all organizations, and then listed specific projects they are
working on or in support of or things they are associated with. the
same way, you could search by project, and see what other similar
projects/related projects were out there, and what issues the project
was seeking to solve.

I don't know how the ideas project site is built, but one approach to "semantic linking" is massive amounts of structured metadata. UI's + XML + database back end + middleware is one approach. Some high-end content management systems incorporate all these elements.

in my mind, this would be a great solution, allowing the info from all
these places to pipe in.... automatically updating blog posts from all
the different sites and providing a snapshot overview of the entire
ecosystem, and making it very easy for projects and people to become
aware of one another and share data instead of duplicating it over and
over.

Right. That's what I was thinking, too.
 
this is a much bigger project than creating a spreadsheet, but it's
something that would be nice.

Not just nice. I'm thinking it is cruxial. At the risk of hyperbole, the future of civilization and the future of the net may be strongly linked.

i love the p2p foundation site, it's
absolutely packed with gold, but it is a bit overwhelming to
understand where to look and to get context.

Not just that, but it is increasingly hard to maintain updates to the many pages and even if fully up-to-date it is static, curated  "view" of the ecosystem. The kind of platform we are discussing now would allow different interest groups to create their own UI's and views.

the thing i'm envisioning would be a lot of work to set up,

yes, but intuitively we sense it would be of such value we can hardly estimate yet...

 
but then it would be intelligent.
for example, as we've had the conversation many times about how to
evaluate projects or break down the criteria about them.... if these
values were defined, they could then be entered into this database,
and it would show you the 9 projects that were related/similar/
identical. it just seems that if there was more granular information
about all of this, and it was openly available and easy to navigate,
we'd have a much more effective method of allocating resources to
efforts that will go furthest.

I think we should be applying the best available information technology to this. I have been out of the corporate IT world for over ten years, but the "enterprise" content management systems, enterprise database platforms, application servers (I used Oracle's OAS and IBM's WebSphere), and integrated development environments (IDEs) I was using then provide the kinds of tools needed for such a project. IDE's like JBuilder, Eclipse,or Oracle's JDeveloper and NetBeans
 allow rapid development of multiple, customized graphical user interfaces and middleware for automatic "publishing" of updated database information to all wikis, blogs, and other venues that are subscribed to such updates. In the decade since I did this kind of application development and iintegration some or all of these tools and platforms may have become available in open/free alternatives. I don't know. But if not, that should not stop us from approaching this vitally important project with the best tools available.

Another way of describing such a project is building a Next Net ecosystem knowledge base and expert system.

PR


Message has been deleted

Poor Richard

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Apr 16, 2011, 10:35:50 AM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
Right, Robert, I mentioned escalating the mother list from a spreadsheet to relational database. But Venessa's reply has sent me reeling past that upgrade to a Next Net ecosystem knowledge-base and expert system with user-defined custom graphical user interfaces and automatic remote data imports and exports via RSS and more. My idea pump has been fully primed and is now gushing uncontrollably...

PR

Suresh Fernando

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Apr 16, 2011, 11:39:47 AM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com, contac...@googlegroups.com
Venessa et al...

To make this solution even more compelling, I'd like to see a system where projects can represent themselves in a structured way that makes them visible within the larger 'ecosystem' in which they operate. This is to say that they represent certain aspects of their project in a way that makes it easy for other projects to determine if their is a fit. This the becomes the metadata for the project.

This metadata simply could be project intentions, meeting times, virtual meeting tools, resource requirements etc....obviously this needs to be better fleshed out but is the essence of both a Project Matching architecture as well as an Open Project architecture that I've been working on over the last couple of years (details to follow....).

To reiterate, the idea is that projects be structured openly so that they can easily connect with each other.


I did some work on the UI paradigm a couple of years ago that is represented in this presentation commencing on slide 11.... maybe it will stimulate some further thoughts...

On a related note, as you know, I have developed a Google Group of social finance contacts that includes the following participating organizations.

I am very interested in developing a proposal to finance an infrastructure that includes the elements that you describe. There is a great deal to be said about this and rather than try to communicate it all at once, I'll leave it at that for now. If others have an interest in collaborating on the development of a proposal to present to the finance community, let me know.


Suresh



On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Poor Richard <poor.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
Venessa,

your remarks have really fired me up. Inline responses:

On Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:40:14 AM UTC-5, Venessa Miemis wrote:
yeah, a spreadsheet is good for lists.
yeah, but not for what we are talking about now.
 
i guess what's still needed on top of that (and the wiki) is a clean,
simple to understand and navigate UI.
or better yet, a database that would allow users to create multiple UI's
 
i have been in discussion with the folks who built the ideas project
website (http://ideasproject.com/index.jspa), which is all
semantically linked, so for example, it could be built so that it
showed all organizations, and then listed specific projects they are
working on or in support of or things they are associated with. the
same way, you could search by project, and see what other similar
projects/related projects were out there, and what issues the project
was seeking to solve.
I don't know how the ideas project site is built, but one approach to "semantic linking" is massive amounts of structured metadata. UI's + XML + database back end + middleware is one approach. Some high-end content management systems incorporate all these elements.

in my mind, this would be a great solution, allowing the info from all
these places to pipe in.... automatically updating blog posts from all
the different sites and providing a snapshot overview of the entire
ecosystem, and making it very easy for projects and people to become
aware of one another and share data instead of duplicating it over and
over.
Right. That's what I was thinking, too.
 
this is a much bigger project than creating a spreadsheet, but it's
something that would be nice.
Not just nice. I'm thinking it is cruxial. At the risk of hyperbole, the future of civilization and the future of the net may be strongly linked.

i love the p2p foundation site, it's
absolutely packed with gold, but it is a bit overwhelming to
understand where to look and to get context.
Not just that, but it is increasingly hard to maintain updates to the many pages and even if fully up-to-date it is static, curated  "view" of the ecosystem. The kind of platform we are discussing now would allow different interest groups to create their own UI's and views.

the thing i'm envisioning would be a lot of work to set up,
yes, but intuitively we sense it would be of such value we can hardly estimate yet...

 
but then it would be intelligent.
for example, as we've had the conversation many times about how to
evaluate projects or break down the criteria about them.... if these
values were defined, they could then be entered into this database,
and it would show you the 9 projects that were related/similar/
identical. it just seems that if there was more granular information
about all of this, and it was openly available and easy to navigate,
we'd have a much more effective method of allocating resources to
efforts that will go furthest.
I think we should be applying the best available information technology to this. I have been out of the corporate IT world for over ten years, but the "enterprise" content management systems, enterprise database platforms, application servers (I used Oracle's OAS and IBM's WebSphere), and integrated development environments (IDEs) I was using then provide the kinds of tools needed for such a project. IDE's like JBuilder, Eclipse,or Oracle's JDeveloper and NetBeans
 allow rapid development of multiple, customized graphical user interfaces and middleware for automatic "publishing" of updated database information to all wikis, blogs, and other venues that are subscribed to such updates. In the decade since I did this kind of application development and iintegration some or all of these tools and platforms may have become available in open/free alternatives. I don't know. But if not, that should not stop us from approaching this vitally important project with the best tools available.

Another way of describing such a project is building a Next Net ecosystem knowledge base and expert system.

PR



--
Suresh Fernando
BLOG, YOUTUBE, OK WEBSITE, OK FAN PAGE, OK GROUP, OK-WE, PHILOSOPHY,  TWITTER,  FACEBOOK, WOTW FAN PAGE LINKEDIN, SLIDESHARE

-------ProM: Climate Change Project Matching System------
Project Description: http://cotw.cc/wiki/Project_Matching
To Join: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/cc-pms
Workstreams: http://cotw.cc/wiki/CC-PMS_etherpad_index

Robert Steele

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Apr 16, 2011, 11:48:39 AM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
Between the two briefs, the first (project matching) is easier for me.  You can actually take the concept down further, to a global range of gifts table at the individual/household level that allows individuals to self-address to any aspect of meeting the need.  Here is the UNICEF Open Everything briefing I gave that outlines how I would focus on the core need being defined, and then provide a structure for everyone else to self-organize.  Others have thought of this also, see the second link that I respect very much.

2009 Briefing: Open Everything at UNICEF in NYC

Design for the Other 90% Exhibit + “Micro-Giving” Global Needs Index to Connect Rich to Poor/Fullfill Global-to-Local Requests

Charles N Wyble

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Apr 16, 2011, 12:09:48 PM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
On 04/16/2011 07:40 AM, Venessa Miemis wrote:
> yeah, a spreadsheet is good for lists.
>
> i guess what's still needed on top of that (and the wiki) is a clean,
> simple to understand and navigate UI.

Yes. A visual map of the various problem spaces.

> i have been in discussion with the folks who built the ideas project
> website (http://ideasproject.com/index.jspa), which is all
> semantically linked, so for example, it could be built so that it
> showed all organizations, and then listed specific projects they are
> working on or in support of or things they are associated with. the
> same way, you could search by project, and see what other similar
> projects/related projects were out there, and what issues the project
> was seeking to solve.

Precisely.

Essentially what we need to do is competitive and market intelligence. :)

1) Get an understanding of the intended user base of the
software/services. (use cases and personas)
2) Get an understanding of the current vertical solutions to serve those
use cases
3) Have a brochure site of sorts that maps use cases to solutions.

I've always been focused on very horizontal
solutions/platforms/infrastructure. Things that people build great
vertical solutions on top of.

I've been watching these discussions with great interest but can't offer
any tactical time. I'm happy to host software though. Usually this stuff
is straightforward to install/setup for folks to start using. I do
LAMP/Ruby work all day long, so it's easy for me to spend 20 minutes
installing/configuring a platform which others can utilize for all sorts
of cool things.


> in my mind, this would be a great solution, allowing the info from all
> these places to pipe in.... automatically updating blog posts from all
> the different sites and providing a snapshot overview of the entire
> ecosystem, and making it very easy for projects and people to become
> aware of one another and share data instead of duplicating it over and
> over.

We could use http://drupal.org/project/semantic_search
I've been setting up my personal memex along the lines
of http://eric-blue.com/my-projects/personal-memex/
but using drupal instead of media wiki.

I'm also looking at
http://eric-blue.com/2009/05/10/15-effective-tools-for-visual-knowledge-management/
and exploring using those tools to organize my research in the overall
data ownership problem space.


> this is a much bigger project than creating a spreadsheet, but it's
> something that would be nice.

Indeed. Would allow us to focus on work instead of (as much) organizing
of that work.

> i love the p2p foundation site, it's
> absolutely packed with gold, but it is a bit overwhelming to
> understand where to look and to get context.

Right. It's a database, but not really organized as one.


> the thing i'm envisioning
> would be a lot of work to set up, but then it would be intelligent.
> for example, as we've had the conversation many times about how to
> evaluate projects or break down the criteria about them.... if these
> values were defined, they could then be entered into this database,
> and it would show you the 9 projects that were related/similar/
> identical.

Hmmmm. Very interesting. I wonder how much of this can be automated and
how much
requires human curating.

I'm playing with OpenKM and would be happy to provide an instance for
folks to experiment with.

> it just seems that if there was more granular information
> about all of this, and it was openly available and easy to navigate,
> we'd have a much more effective method of allocating resources to
> efforts that will go furthest.

Very much so.

--
Charles N Wyble cha...@knownelement.com @charlesnw
http://blog.knownelement.com
Building tomorrows alternate default free zone


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sures...@gmail.com

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Apr 16, 2011, 12:58:39 PM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com, Contact Conference
Robert - thanks for the quick turnaround. I am away from my computer so won't be able to review your links thoroughly until later...

I want to inject a further idea or two for consideration:

If the larger idea is to develop this infrastructure to connect projects in some way it might be a good idea to consider applying the metadata principles to the projects we are currently aggregating info on and that are represented both by the participants in this list as well as the projects people are gathering info on.

This gives everyone something tangible to work with.

What is the appropriate information to compile about projects to make this system we envision work?

As for the UI presentation, this will be better understood once I forward the Open Project ideas. This will provide both explanation and context.

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone powered by Mobilicity


From: Robert Steele <robert.david...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:48:39 -0400
Subject: Re: wikified list of stakeholder organizations

Poor Richard

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Apr 16, 2011, 2:32:09 PM4/16/11
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On Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:58:39 AM UTC-5, sureshf wrote:
 
If the larger idea is to develop this infrastructure to connect projects in some way it might be a good idea to consider applying the metadata principles to the projects we are currently aggregating info on and that are represented both by the participants in this list as well as the projects people are gathering info on.

This gives everyone something tangible to work with.

What is the appropriate information to compile about projects to make this system we envision work?
 
To begin with, I propose we take Tim Berners-Lee's suggestion and give every data object a url. By data object I don't mean every bit or "atom" of data. I don't mean every word in Wikipedia, for example. I mean every coherent and identifiable chunk of data. In the case of Wikipedia and other wikis this is already done. The table of contents (toc) of a Wikipedia page lists the chunks of text data in that page, and each item in the toc already has a url in the form:


An image on the page has a url similar to:


This is the unique identifier of each chunk of data. The contents of the chunk, in the case of wiki text chunks, is all the text between that toc topic and the next toc topic. It is not necessary to store a full copy of the content of every text chunk in our database, but it may be desirable to store an index of the text for rapid search capability. Search engine indexing collects, parses, and stores data (actually a form of machine-generated metadata, similar to keywords) to facilitate fast information retrieval.

Although each data chunk has a unique url, we still want to assign or generate a shorter ID for the database's primary key for each chunk.

So far our database has three columns or fields: primary_key, url, and search_index. Of these, only the url is ever input, although where the structure of the data is known in advance or is machine-readable via XML, RDF, etc. the urls can sometimes be parsed out automatically by a "web spider" or "crawler". A simple example is the wiki page's toc urls. The other two fields, the key and the index, are simply generated from the url and the text content, respectively. (Automatic harvesting of metadata (keywords, etc.) for semantic indexing of binary media files is another story, outside my ken.)

to be continued....

PR


Samuel Rose

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Apr 16, 2011, 2:48:44 PM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com, Poor Richard, Contact Conference, sures...@gmail.com
Poor Richard,

In addition to what you describe below, I'd also recommend that where
there is not already translation between the existing open standards
metadata specs, that we can process the objects in various ways and
look for patterns that give us a view of how things are the same
despite imposed ontological differences.

Some ontologies have no translation, but we can look for patterns and
clustering of things, to try and match the semiotic and
epistemological understandings. Our ontologies are generally matched
to our language constructs, and short of coming up with new languages,
we can use machines to look for patterns where there cannot be 1 to 1
translation between metadata.

I can think of ways that BOINC could be used to do this even right now
today, for example: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/

--
--
Sam Rose
Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samue...@gmail.com
http://futureforwardinstitute.com
http://forwardfound.org
http://hollymeadcapital.com
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://socialmediaclassroom.com

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan

Poor Richard

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Apr 16, 2011, 3:00:32 PM4/16/11
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Technoshaman

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Apr 16, 2011, 6:12:55 PM4/16/11
to The Next Net
Michel, the problem with this list is that it is a list. OK, it's not
really a problem, but I refer to its limitations, namely that it
reflects the relatively narrow window on reality of anybody compiling
it (compared with a larger group's compilation), and more importantly,
it's difficult to define clear ex/inclusion criteria.

However, my biggest issues with lists is their limited dimensionality
and lack of higher-order patterns. In the early 90's, I worked on a
conceptual framework for the dimensional progression of visual
thinking tools from 1D lists to 2D matrices to 3D spaces and vortices,
4D animated VR, and what I'd add today: Augmented Reality. The point
is that each subsequent version is capable to absorb more complexity,
thus has a better chance to accommodate both dynamic and generative
complexity.

What would also be necessary to fill the the progression of
affordances (as we add dimensions) with meaning is the use of a
pattern language. Pattern languages, just like collective
intelligence, are inseparable from the community validating and using
them. They have to be rigorous, yet they are less of a science, more
of a community art form.

george

p.s.: it's good to play with you and the other friends on this list,
in yet another sandbox -
thanx Venessa 4 alerting me to it


On 16 Apr, 03:45, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the list is now athttp://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure#Key_Organisation...
>
> with a very comprehensive list that could be used to select additions athttp://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Movements
>
> not sure how this should be done technologically, but combininghttp://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Movementswithhttp://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Technologyand also separately withhttp://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Standardswould select a more appropriate
> list to work from
>
> so what we have now is:
>
>    1. Appropedia <http://p2pfoundation.net/Appropedia>
>    2. Brave New
> Software<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Brave_New_...>
>    3. Cook Report on Internet
> Protocol<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Cook_Repor...>
>    [47] <http://www.cookreport.com/>
>    4. Creative Commons <http://p2pfoundation.net/Creative_Commons>
>    5. Electronic Frontier Foundation]]
>    6. Free Internet<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Free_Inter...>
>    [48] <http://www.free-internet.name/>
>    7. Free Network Movement <http://p2pfoundation.net/Free_Network_Movement>
>    8. Freedombox
> Foundation<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Freedombox...>
>    9. Future Forward
> Institute<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Future_For...>
>    10. GNU Operating
> System<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=GNU_Operat...>
>    [49] <http://www.gnu.org/>
>    11. Liberation Technology
> Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Liberation...>(Standford
> University)
>    [50] <http://liberationtechnology.stanford.edu/>
>    12. [[NetZero Free Dial-Up Internet Access[[
> [51]<http://www.netzero.net/start/landing.do?page=www/free/index>
>    13. New America Foundation<http://p2pfoundation.net/New_America_Foundation>
>    14. New Software
> Foundation<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=New_Softwa...>
>    15. Open Source Ecology <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Ecology>
>    16. Personal Data
> Ecosystem<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Personal_D...>
>    17. P2P Foundation <http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Foundation>
>    18. Technology Liberation
> Front<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Technology...>
>    [52] <http://techliberation.com/>
>    19. Tor Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=Tor_Projec...>
>    20. Unhosted <http://p2pfoundation.net/Unhosted>
>    21. W3C<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure?title=W3C&action...>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation:http://p2pfoundation.net -http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Poor Richard

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Apr 16, 2011, 6:25:20 PM4/16/11
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Techno,

Could you give an example of "2D matrices to 3D spaces and vortices, 4D animated VR, and Augmented Reality."?

By pattern language do you mean something like regular expressions?

PR

Robert Steele

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Apr 16, 2011, 6:26:34 PM4/16/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
George, it is great to see one of the top collective intelligence gurus on this list.  If you any specific tools that have met any of your needs for information sharing and sense-making, would love to see you list them here.  I tried to suggest list migration to the wiki, but it did not really take.  Robert

Technoshaman

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Apr 17, 2011, 7:17:51 AM4/17/11
to The Next Net
Charles,

> We could use http://drupal.org/project/semantic_search I've been setting up my personal memex along the lines
of http://eric-blue.com/my-projects/personal-memex/ but using drupal
instead of media wiki.

I am a huge Drupal and personal memex fan but without your tech savvy.
The emphasis in "technoshaman" is on the last two syllabs. :-) Will
you make your drupalmex templatable? Will I be able to easily
replicate it for my personal memex?

Why not make it so that the various implementations can also
interoperate.

g.

Technoshaman

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Apr 17, 2011, 7:27:08 AM4/17/11
to The Next Net

> Could you give an example of "2D matrices to 3D spaces and vortices, 4D
> animated VR, and Augmented Reality."?

nope, it's purely conceptual, nothing in code

> By pattern language do you mean something like regular expressions?

more like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_language#Aggregation_in_an_associative_network_.28.22pattern_language.22.29

Technoshaman

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Apr 17, 2011, 7:39:43 AM4/17/11
to The Next Net
On Apr 16, 3:21 pm, Poor Richard <poor.rica...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > this is a much bigger project than creating a spreadsheet, but it's
> > something that would be nice.
>
> Not just nice. I'm thinking it is cruxial. At the risk of hyperbole, the
> future of civilization and the future of the net may be strongly linked.

I couldn’t have said any better, although I tried to, here:
http://groups.google.com/group/building-a-distributed-decentralized-internet/browse_thread/thread/8347da97c880e22

Technoshaman

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Apr 17, 2011, 7:40:36 AM4/17/11
to The Next Net
hello Robert,

> If you any specific tools that have met any of your needs for
> information sharing and sense-making, would love to see you list them here.

unfortunately my needs are so much ahead of what is available that
there's really no tool to meet them :-(
having understood that it is unlikely that i will, ever master enough
skills to build them, now i'm focusing on ecosystemic solutions:
http://groups.google.com/group/building-a-distributed-decentralized-internet/browse_thread/thread/8347da97c880e22

g.

Fabio Barone

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Apr 17, 2011, 8:19:44 AM4/17/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
George,

I am sure many developers are craving for things to do that are meaningful to them.
Hordes of graduating students and uni research projects are desperate for meaningful work,
right mentoring and connections.

Maybe it's a good start to as succinctly as possible describe those needs?
Maybe we can get there step by step.

(btw, we have had lots of discussions of this type in the cotw project.
we thought that starting to collect those needs may be a good start.
we're collecting 'user stories' at http://prom.openstewardship.net)


2011/4/17 Technoshaman <georg...@gmail.com>

Charles N Wyble

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Apr 17, 2011, 10:42:55 AM4/17/11
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On 04/17/2011 06:17 AM, Technoshaman wrote:
> Charles,
>
>> We could use http://drupal.org/project/semantic_search I've been setting up my personal memex along the lines
> The emphasis in "technoshaman" is on the last two syllabs. :-) Will
> you make your drupalmex templatable? Will I be able to easily
> replicate it for my personal memex?

I would like to make it available. As a Drupal installation profile.
https://drupal.org/project/installation+profiles

I was already considering doing that and since you asked for it,
I shall do it right now and make it available for download. :)

I haven't put any data in the memex yet, just lots and lots of
plugins/themes etc.

> Why not make it so that the various implementations can also
> interoperate.

I'm not exactly sure how to do that. I imagine XML-RPC
would be the way to go about this. I've built web services/XML-RPC
stuff before but not with Drupal. Just with RubyOnRails.

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Charles N Wyble

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Apr 17, 2011, 10:57:49 AM4/17/11
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On 04/17/2011 07:19 AM, Fabio Barone wrote:
> George,

>
> Hordes of graduating students and uni research projects are desperate
> for meaningful work,
> right mentoring and connections.

Summer is rapidly approaching.

>
> Maybe it's a good start to as succinctly as possible describe those needs?
> Maybe we can get there step by step.

Indeed.

>
> (btw, we have had lots of discussions of this type in the cotw project.
> we thought that starting to collect those needs may be a good start.
> we're collecting 'user stories' at http://prom.openstewardship.net)

Yay for user stories!!! :) It's how folks like me turn desire to
fulfillment. :)

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Charles N Wyble

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Apr 17, 2011, 11:43:25 AM4/17/11
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On 04/17/2011 06:17 AM, Technoshaman wrote:
> Charles,
>
>
> I am a huge Drupal and personal memex fan but without your tech savvy.
> The emphasis in "technoshaman" is on the last two syllabs. :-) Will
> you make your drupalmex templatable? Will I be able to easily
> replicate it for my personal memex?

As promised I have released it:
http://blog.knownelement.com/2011/04/17/releasing-my-memex/

I am unable to provide any technical support, but feel free to comment
on the blog post with any questions. Or send me an e-mail with more detailed
instructions and I can put them on the post. I get paid to translate
technical instructions to action items for customers all day long. Not
going to do it for
free. :D

I hope this is of use to folks. It's been a lot of fun building it. Now
I have to migrate content. Whee!

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Fabio Barone

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Apr 17, 2011, 11:46:53 AM4/17/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com
Charles, the download link doesn't work right away,
there is a typo in the file name.

this is the working link:
http://www.knownelement.com/download/memex_bits_release-1.0,tar

(a comma instead of a dot after 1.0)

thanks for sharing


Charles N Wyble

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Apr 17, 2011, 11:50:23 AM4/17/11
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Awesome. Thanks! Updated the blog post. Appreciate it. :)
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Devin Balkind

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Apr 17, 2011, 2:47:02 PM4/17/11
to building-a-distributed...@googlegroups.com, Technoshaman
There's a very real need within the open hardware community for a pattern language to emerge that enables folks to share 'builds' with each other independent of normal language.  Marcin Jakubowski's Global Village Construction Set is a good test case for this language, and the folks at WindowFarms wants to begin working on this with their community of 20k+ contributors. 


On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Technoshaman <georg...@gmail.com> wrote:



--
Devin Balkind
@devinbalkind
vitamindwb.com

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